FWD performance = non existent?

[Mugen EvOlutioN]

^


2500rpm?
try again

With these modifications, the power achieved is 200 horsepower at 6,600 rpm and 180 lb-ft of torque at 5,200 rpm (when using premium unleaded fuel). Helping to put all this power to the ground is an optional Helical Limited-Slip Differential (available with Spec V only). The Spec V model is available only with a close-ratio 6-speed manual transmission. It also has unique suspension, brakes, tires and body structure changes (versus the base SE-R).

[ChinesePetro]

Originally Posted by Mugen EvOlutioN

^


2500rpm?
try again

With these modifications, the power achieved is 200 horsepower at 6,600 rpm and 180 lb-ft of torque at 5,200 rpm (when using premium unleaded fuel). Helping to put all this power to the ground is an optional Helical Limited-Slip Differential (available with Spec V only). The Spec V model is available only with a close-ratio 6-speed manual transmission. It also has unique suspension, brakes, tires and body structure changes (versus the base SE-R).

Most people would rather get the 180lb-ft@5,200rpm than the 139lb-ft@6100rpm, unless he/she is a honda fanboi.

not to say, the spec V is 6 grands cheaper than the Civic.

[Great68]

Unless you are tracking your car, or breaking road laws on a regular basis, RWD is a novelty.

[Mugen EvOlutioN]

Originally Posted by ChinesePetro

Most people would rather get the 180lb-ft@5,200rpm than the 139lb-ft@6100rpm, unless he/she is a honda fanboi.

not to say, the spec V is 6 grands cheaper than the Civic.

and u are comparing with Si because?

did i say SER is a bad car? no i love it, its affordable yet its a huge improvement over the last gen. And i mean HUGE!


why not compare apple to apple, u are comparing a 2.5L to a 2.0L in terms of torque because?

TSX K24
4-cyl 172 @ 4300rpm torque
201@7100rpm hp

are you gonna apply that faggot logic of urs?

most people would prefer the 172@4300rpm torque over the 180@ 5200rpm logic again? oh wait, this time honda is being placed in the first place so i know u will apply someting else

[ilvtofu]

Originally Posted by Great68

Unless you are tracking your car, or breaking road laws on a regular basis, RWD is a novelty.

+1

[ShaughnessyREN]

a stock civic SI will stomp your stock Mazda 3 anytime

to op: watch for r18 civics
cuz
si is outta ur league

[ilvtofu]

Originally Posted by ShaughnessyREN

a stock civic SI will stomp your stock Mazda 3 anytime

to op: watch for r18 civics
cuz
si is outta ur league

LOL guess who's back!

the 148hp mazda 3 is slower than an si?

[Mugen EvOlutioN]

Originally Posted by ShaughnessyREN

a stock civic SI will stomp your stock Mazda 3 anytime

to op: watch for r18 civics
cuz
si is outta ur league

lol u are alive again

[BEEB]

Mazda 3 is a fine automobile. But a modified Honda is a bit more superior. I believe your friend was talking about Type R, SIR, B16 swapped Civic Hatch or even a H22 Prelude. I've driven the Mazda 3 and owned a Protege5. I have to agree that the Mazda 3 have a nice firm suspension and handles really well when breaking the municipal law. But I've to agree that Honda does built a better car in terms of FWD performance. I've also owned a H22 Prelude which is a very fun car to drive which i would rate it higher than a Mazda 3 or Protege 5. Let alone the Type R and B16 swapped Civics, these Honda have way more fun than a slightly suspension tuned Mazda 3. If you wanna compare Mazdaspeed 3 with hondas, you better stack it up with a Type R or a RSX-S or even a WRX for comparison.

[k20a]

Originally Posted by ShaughnessyREN

a stock civic SI will stomp your stock Mazda 3 anytime

to op: watch for r18 civics
cuz
si is outta ur league

and my car can smoke both those cars. lol who gives a shit.

[SlideStaRR]

Originally Posted by Mugen EvOlutioN

^


2500rpm?
try again

He drives a SE-R not a Spec-v

Engine QR25DE - 2.5-litre DOHC 16-valve 4-cyl. Engine Horsepower - 177 @ 6000 rpm
Torque - 172 lb-ft @ 2800 rpm

[Jackygor]

Originally Posted by Great68

Unless you are tracking your car, or breaking road laws on a regular basis, RWD is a novelty.

I couldn't disagree more saying that RWD is a novelty. It is true that most people who owns a RWD cannot utilizes 10% of its full potential, be it on the track or on the road, but we live in an era of excess, everything from the things you wear to the things you eat, I would even go as far as to say that it is the social norm to have things that are well beyond our needs.

[MajinHurricane]

Originally Posted by Mugen EvOlutioN

yes yes i know, i love mazdaspeed 3 dont get me wrong, its one of my top 3 favorite car around that price tag



anything with turbo/SC will get hp/torque

thats a no brainer

focus st gets about 160 lb of torque which is more than most 4 bangers and is NA.

[Evolutionian]

Originally Posted by ShaughnessyREN

a stock civic SI will stomp your stock Mazda 3 anytime

to op: watch for r18 civics
cuz
si is outta ur league

i never said my "stock" mazda3 is going to stomp a stock SI?
and are we talking SI or Civics? we're talking hondas in general.

[shenmecar]

Originally Posted by Jackygor

I couldn't disagree more saying that RWD is a novelty. It is true that most people who owns a RWD cannot utilizes 10% of its full potential, be it on the track or on the road, but we live in an era of excess, everything from the things you wear to the things you eat, I would even go as far as to say that it is the social norm to have things that are well beyond our needs.

That is a very true saying. People like the luxury of having MORE. Even if you don't ever use them. Case and point, that Dubai guy with 5000 cars (from the other thread).

Even as a kid, I would go compare who has the most Pokemon cards.

[hk20000]

FWD is fun. Until you are understeering into a barrier and have to bail out of the car GTA style.

[Zulu]

FWD = fail.
4 banger = fail.
v6 = fail.

[MajinHurricane]

^actually I think v6's are a perfect mix of economy and power.

[godwin]

The problem with V6 FWD currently is the extra weight and the limitation of the gearboxes.. While RWD, 7 speeds is getting to be the standard in the next 12 months.. because FWD's width limitation, you can't really go that route.

Also you are compromising the turning radius... The same problem, that doomed US cars as unweldy in 80s and 90s. Except this time we are doing turbos.

Unless some company invest in the iQ setup for higher power application, where the differential is actually in front of the drivetrain. FWD is limited.

As for power of the 4bangers.. even Honda admit VTEC / high RPM is not sustainable.. it is more fuel efficient to have most of the torque in the lower RPM range.

Again FWD is cost first, performance second.

Originally Posted by MajinHurricane

^actually I think v6's are a perfect mix of economy and power.

[MaGNuM16]

Cobalt ss ftw I got my 07 ss from the dealer it came with stage 2 and I paid 13500 before taxes . Car is over alla good car , other than wheel hop. I dynoed it during rg dyno day 180whp and 163torq and the selection for after market parts is endless.

[FeistyBearH22a]

Originally Posted by Zulu

FWD = fail.
4 banger = fail.
v6 = fail.

Feel free to bring your car to the track and feel the fail from all the 4 bangers all night long.

[godwin]

Err wheel hop is a symptom of the design limitation of FWD.

Yes FWD is cheap, but good performance ie no wheel hopping is not.

Originally Posted by MaGNuM16

Cobalt ss ftw I got my 07 ss from the dealer it came with stage 2 and I paid 13500 before taxes . Car is over alla good car , other than wheel hop. I dynoed it during rg dyno day 180whp and 163torq and the selection for after market parts is endless.

[Zulu]

Originally Posted by FeistyBearH22a

Feel free to bring your car to the track and feel the fail from all the 4 bangers all night long.

And tell me, which FWD 4 banger is going to cause me to feel anything in the vette? Yeah that's what I thought. Go back to counting your MPG riceboi.

Originally Posted by MajinHurricane

^actually I think v6's are a perfect mix of economy and power.

That's because you = fail.

[Lomac]

Originally Posted by MajinHurricane

^actually I think v6's are a perfect mix of economy and power.

Originally Posted by Zulu

That's because you = fail.

I've owned vehicles with engines as small as a 1.8 4cyl (Jetta) and as large a 427 big block V8 ('Vette) and many engines inbetween, both N/A and F/I'ed. When I was younger, it seemed like there was nothing better in the world than having a giant V8 in front of your feet, but as priorities change and you start to actually think about things like fuel economy and how much money you're burning, you learn to compromise a bit. While I still love V8's, I don't see much in the way of practical use for 'em. They simply are a novelty for 99% of the time. I'll never go back to a tiny 4cyl again, but my current two cars consist of a 2.5 V6 and a 2.4 I4 and the power/acceleration of both are very similar (well, until the V6 finally get's the blower installed), though the I4 has sooo much better fuel economy.

So for the best compromise, I'm going to have to agree with Majinhurricane and state that V6's tend to be the best all-rounder solution.

[Lomac]

Originally Posted by Zulu

And tell me, which FWD 4 banger is going to cause me to feel anything in the vette? Yeah that's what I thought. Go back to counting your MPG riceboi.

My twin-turbo 1.8L RWD 200sx would have definitely given your 'Vette a run for it's money at Mission Raceway and would definitely have walked all over it in Auto-X.

[Zulu]

Originally Posted by Lomac

-but as priorities change and you start to actually think about things like fuel economy and how much money you're burning, you learn to compromise a bit-

Personally, I'd just not get so poor that it mattered... but that's me.

Originally Posted by Lomac

My twin-turbo 1.8L RWD 200sx would have definitely given your 'Vette a run for it's money at Mission Raceway and would definitely have walked all over it in Auto-X.

Mmmm, probably not.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5pboIuiYAA
Like the audi and the red 64 stingray?

[Lomac]

Originally Posted by Zulu

Personally, I'd just not get so poor that it mattered... but that's me.



Mmmm, probably not.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5pboIuiYAA
Like the audi and the red 64 stingray?

I've no idea what the point of that video was, but okay? Had a '63 Split window Vette with a 427 implanted into it. It sounded very similar to that. In fact, my '03 Mustang GT with a Borla system sounded just as good. But comparing V8 exhaust tones is kinda pointless in a thread intended for talking about FWD performance, no?

[1990TSI]

while FWD may be as gay as mugen evolutions boyfriend, after watching a few modded FWDs with slicks race around the auto-x course, I have a little more respect for them.
They can be quick, and funny to watch as their inside rear wheel lifts off the ground and stops moving around a hard corner.

I started out with FWDs, even put down almost 400hp in one, but it was stupid. between wheel hop and torque steer, and that fact that tires can either corner or put down power, not both, FWD is not a performance platform. Fun sure, but not as fun as RWD.

I understand where a lot of you are coming from though. RWD is hard to find these days. Honda doesn't make one, mazda doesn't make one, toyota doesn't make one etc etc. (I know the S2000 is available on the used market and Lexus makes a RWD car but wait)

To buy a new RWD these days what does it take? We'll leave the Genesis Coupe out of this cuz it's a hyundai and fuck all of you, but realisticly. there are no affordable rwd cars out there and most of you are honda fanbois. Not everyone wants to run a early 90s S chassis or a RHD skyline, and a lot of us can't afford to maintain a european car. That leaves the masses with FWD cars.

and with that said, people think FWD is good because there aren't enough RWD options out there.

More people need to drive a RWD sports car THEN make comments about FWD being anything but gay as mugen evolutions boyfriend.

[Zulu]

Originally Posted by Lomac

I've no idea what the point of that video was, but okay? Had a '63 Split window Vette with a 427 implanted into it. It sounded very similar to that. In fact, my '03 Mustang GT with a Borla system sounded just as good. But comparing V8 exhaust tones is kinda pointless in a thread intended for talking about FWD performance, no?

It's actually a thread about FWDs lack of performance.



* FWD pwns offroad. well. until AWD came along.

[AzNightmare]

hmm... this thread is getting kind boring now..


so umm.. I have a friend of a friend... that says AWD's > RWD in drifting.



:

[Blinky]

Originally Posted by 1990TSI

I understand where a lot of you are coming from though. RWD is hard to find these days. Honda doesn't make one, mazda doesn't make one, toyota doesn't make one etc etc. (I know the S2000 is available on the used market and Lexus makes a RWD car but wait)

What da phuc bich?

Gaymobile and RX-8 are RWD. All that said, no "daily driverish" type car is really RWD anymore. Mainly the luxo stuff and performance stuff.

and with that said, people think FWD is good because there aren't enough RWD options out there.

In terms of a daily driven car, FWD is superior - it's more economical, which is what should matter for a daily driven car. Fortunately your priorities are different.

Lomac, unless that 200SX was incredibly heavily modified, it wouldn't keep up with a C5 on the track or on the skidpad. AutoX stock, the C5 is classed with stuff like the 997, Elise and Viper.... so... "good luck with that".

Don't ask me about drag though... ask this guy...

[CorneringArtist]

Originally Posted by AzNightmare

hmm... this thread is getting kind boring now..


so umm.. I have a friend of a friend... that says AWD's > RWD in drifting.



:

LOLWUT? Maybe off-road, but there's what, like 10 or 20 AWD cars that are in professional drifting (might not be many in Europe)? Pass me some of the shit he's smoking.

[jeff_alexander]

Miata

[Mugen EvOlutioN]

Originally Posted by 1990TSI

while FWD may be as gay as mugen evolutions boyfriend, after watching a few modded FWDs with slicks race around the auto-x course, I have a little more respect for them.
They can be quick, and funny to watch as their inside rear wheel lifts off the ground and stops moving around a hard corner.

I started out with FWDs, even put down almost 400hp in one, but it was stupid. between wheel hop and torque steer, and that fact that tires can either corner or put down power, not both, FWD is not a performance platform. Fun sure, but not as fun as RWD.

I understand where a lot of you are coming from though. RWD is hard to find these days. Honda doesn't make one, mazda doesn't make one, toyota doesn't make one etc etc. (I know the S2000 is available on the used market and Lexus makes a RWD car but wait)

To buy a new RWD these days what does it take? We'll leave the Genesis Coupe out of this cuz it's a hyundai and fuck all of you, but realisticly. there are no affordable rwd cars out there and most of you are honda fanbois. Not everyone wants to run a early 90s S chassis or a RHD skyline, and a lot of us can't afford to maintain a european car. That leaves the masses with FWD cars.

and with that said, people think FWD is good because there aren't enough RWD options out there.

More people need to drive a RWD sports car THEN make comments about FWD being anything but gay as mugen evolutions boyfriend.

when the fuck did i ever fucking mention OHHH WOWWWW FWD over RWD/AWD? are u fucking blind or something?


get ur fucking fact straight motherufucker


buttom line

AWD > everything

when u have too much power/torque , FWD or RWD whether u like it or not its still gonna slip and have traction issues. Therefore AWD > all enough said

[civic_rice]

The sad thing is i work for ford, i get to drive the new vehicles when need be. the mustang gt's are not that fun to drive imo....When i drive something like that that should be a "sports car" and then i get in my civic and feel better performance, that makes me believe in fwd performance. I cant say i have driven a lot of different makes, but i know that Fwd's can be great cars....or they can be gay

[chwkef]

Originally Posted by Zulu

Personally, I'd just not get so poor that it mattered... but that's me.

Originally Posted by Zulu

FWD = fail.
4 banger = fail.
v6 = fail.

OK, I`m going on a rant here. I hate people like you. Why? You're ignorant and completely full of yourself. Guess what? Reality kick here.... not all of us had money handed down to us from Mommy and Daddy, won the lottery, or were stupid enough to take out a loan to buy an expensive vette. Some of us actually work hard for what we drive, and take pride in what we drive, whether we spent alot of money on our car, or a little, and I"m not gonna sit here and let some ignorant tool like you undermine and make fun of other people's cars.

I work as a mechanic and drive a 92 GSR. Yeah, it's a Honda. Yeah, it's FWD. It is what it is, it's a fun car to drive. I've had RWD (two RX7s), domestics, imports, I've driven them. Some were better than others, but I'm not going to go up to somebody with his Civic and tell him it's a piece of shit. Why? Because I have no right to. The whole point of the automotive community is to support each others projects, and enjoy it in the process. Not to shoot them down and tell them that their Civic will never be as great as the almighty Corvette.

So how about you learn to respect the fact that these cars have alot of potential. Sure, they're not nearly as expensive, and don't have that "bling" factor that your super-fantastic Corvette has, but guess what? If I was to dump the same amount of money that you spent on your vette into my GSR, I'd rape you on the track any day of the week. Just because you have money, doesn't make you better than the rest of us, so grow up.

[Evolutionian]

Originally Posted by chwkef

OK, I`m going on a rant here. I hate people like you. Why? You're ignorant and completely full of yourself. Guess what? Reality kick here.... not all of us had money handed down to us from Mommy and Daddy, won the lottery, or were stupid enough to take out a loan to buy an expensive vette. Some of us actually work hard for what we drive, and take pride in what we drive, whether we spent alot of money on our car, or a little, and I"m not gonna sit here and let some ignorant tool like you undermine and make fun of other people's cars.

I work as a mechanic and drive a 92 GSR. Yeah, it's a Honda. Yeah, it's FWD. It is what it is, it's a fun car to drive. I've had RWD (two RX7s), domestics, imports, I've driven them. Some were better than others, but I'm not going to go up to somebody with his Civic and tell him it's a piece of shit. Why? Because I have no right to. The whole point of the automotive community is to support each others projects, and enjoy it in the process. Not to shoot them down and tell them that their Civic will never be as great as the almighty Corvette.

So how about you learn to respect the fact that these cars have alot of potential. Sure, they're not nearly as expensive, and don't have that "bling" factor that your super-fantastic Corvette has, but guess what? If I was to dump the same amount of money that you spent on your vette into my GSR, I'd rape you on the track any day of the week. Just because you have money, doesn't make you better than the rest of us, so grow up.

Chose to be silence when i first saw zulu's post.
but i guess now that you open up the flame can, ill do my part

Corvettes arent even "Super Fantastics", they can easily get raped by an Evo on the track lol oh yeah and off the track as well, during rainy days as well, oh also during snowing days as well.


yeah grow the fuck up

[jdmhaze]

Originally Posted by Evolutionian

Corvettes arent even "Super Fantastics", they can easily get raped by an Evo on the track lol oh yeah and off the track as well, during rainy days as well, oh also during snowing days as well.

Lets not get TOO far ahead of ourselves. The ZR-1 isn't so bad....

[RabidRat]

I don't think you can really say that FWD cars don't perform as well as RWD cars in a blanket statement. About the only thing you can say is that they're at a disadvantage: it takes more work to make a FWD car as fast as a comparable RWD car in motorsports.

OP: Same idea with the Mazda3 vs Si argument. I had a Mazda3, a 4dr 2.3L 5MT just like yours. With a little prep work (coilovers, swaybars, camber links, brake pads, ate superblue, intake, exhaust, wider stickier tires), I was practically running circles around the Si in my run group the last time I brought the car out to a lapping day. Yes the Si is a faster car out of the box, but that doesn't mean it has to stay that way =).

[FeistyBearH22a]

Originally Posted by Zulu

And tell me, which FWD 4 banger is going to cause me to feel anything in the vette? Yeah that's what I thought. Go back to counting your MPG riceboi.




That's because you = fail.

My car will.
Friday October 2nd for the street legals. Put your money where you fat mouth is.