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Vancouver Automotive Chat Where it all began..
GVRD, Vancouver, North Van, Burnaby, Richmond, PoCo, Coquitlam, Maple Ridge, Pitt Meadows, Surrey, Langley, Delta, White Rock.. |
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09-24-2009, 02:55 PM
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#26
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Lomac owned my ass at least once
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Coquitlam
Posts: 6,463
Thanked 67 Times in 35 Posts
Failed 10 Times in 8 Posts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mugen EvOlutioN
werd
i thought Mazda 3 handles the best in it class
the suspensoin is pretty firm yet the ride isnt harsh at all
by the way, all 4 banger lacks of torque.
U dont hear ppl bitching holly fuck my V6/V8/V12 has no torque god damn!
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it should be all N/A 4 bangers lack torque
and my 3.0L v6 is gutless with no horsepower or torque
 
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09-24-2009, 03:31 PM
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#27
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HELP ME PLS!!!
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 5,932
Thanked 518 Times in 164 Posts
Failed 148 Times in 69 Posts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blinky
Most people would never really understand why RWD is superior for "fun" driving.
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Thats true. Most people who buys Merc and BMWs are old men who likes the title of "owning a european car". They are not going to go 0-60 as fast as possible in their M5 because they have kids.
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09-24-2009, 03:40 PM
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#28
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I STILL don't get it
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Richmond
Posts: 464
Thanked 109 Times in 44 Posts
Failed 4 Times in 4 Posts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shenmecar
Thats true. Most people who buys Merc and BMWs are old men who likes the title of "owning a european car". They are not going to go 0-60 as fast as possible in their M5 because they have kids.
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Don't forget the parent-powered honger/mainland boys and girls that cruise around No. 3 Rd...
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09-24-2009, 04:26 PM
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#29
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RS has made me the bitter person i am today!
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: vancouver
Posts: 4,666
Thanked 254 Times in 90 Posts
Failed 121 Times in 48 Posts
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LOL why are we even disputing it? larger displacement = more potential to yield power,
But anyways, I believe an FWD performance car is very valid, won't be a lemans track car but for a daily driver with a good amount of performance FWD isn't impossible
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09-24-2009, 04:32 PM
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#30
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HELP ME PLS!!!
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 5,932
Thanked 518 Times in 164 Posts
Failed 148 Times in 69 Posts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spectre_Cdn
Don't forget the parent-powered honger/mainland boys and girls that cruise around No. 3 Rd...
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em too.
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09-24-2009, 05:22 PM
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#31
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RS Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: YVR / LAX
Posts: 16,307
Thanked 194 Times in 129 Posts
Failed 8 Times in 7 Posts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blinky
This.
Older honduhs were decent FWD platforms because they were light and had good front suspension.
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Old Honda's were awesome. Double-wishbone suspension, light chassis, and a reliable 4-cylinder gas miser with so much potential, how can you lose? Sure, they may be a SOHC 1.6L 4-cylinder motor pushing 110hp, but who the hell cares when you're saving all that money from the get go? I'm sure there are people out there who rake in a 6-digit salary and are laughing all the way to the bank!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blinky
Aaaaannnd this. Most people would never really understand why RWD is superior for "fun" driving.
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We can thank Initial-D.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by RRxtar
when i very rarely walk into a 'coffee shop' to grab a coffee and see all the trendy art fags lounging around, it makes me glad i got a real job. (and i dont mean students studying either)
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09-24-2009, 05:32 PM
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#32
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resident Oil Guru
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 3,207
Thanked 1,139 Times in 299 Posts
Failed 202 Times in 90 Posts
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Here in my opinion are some good FWD (quick, nippy, or fun to drive)
Honda Civic SI
Acura RSX Type-S
Mazdaspeed 3
Acura TL Type-S (latest gen and previous gen)
Cobalt SS
As for your question as to what supposedly makes a Honda FWD "better". If you're talking about cars like the FD2, I think Honda's suspension and chassis design works well as a FWD platform.
Go drive a Civic SI, or a RSX Type-S, they're really neutral, no torque steer.
I can't speak for other FWD cars, but as far as I know, the FD2 is the fastest track stock FWD you can buy? Or perhaps the Mugen RR.?
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09-24-2009, 05:36 PM
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#33
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RS has made me the bitter person i am today!
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: vancouver
Posts: 4,705
Thanked 87 Times in 22 Posts
Failed 0 Times in 0 Posts
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^
he pretty much said it. Light chassis and double wishbone suspension. Some swaps are pretty much bolt on and yet you get good gas mileage out of it.
But being a Honda owner I feel ashamed of what your friend has said.
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09-24-2009, 05:40 PM
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#34
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2x Variable Nockenwellen Steuerung
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: N49.2 W122.1
Posts: 3,338
Thanked 61 Times in 51 Posts
Failed 14 Times in 12 Posts
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In General:
Most FWD fundamentally are limited due to the weight and layout of the engine.. There are several tricks like Ford's Revo Knuckle that partially solve the problems eg torque steer. not to mention Honda's SH differential. However it adds to R&D and manufacturing cost.. since FWD is relegated to economy cars.. it is just not worth it.
The bottom line is it is harder to have a good handling FWD.. it is even harder to modify / add power to a stock FWD car without causing a lot of other problems.
In the end RWD is easier, hence require less investment etc.
I would say Revo Knucle is probably the best FWD setup right now (for high HP ~300HP and general driving). and guess what? Ford licenses it from ZF.
Last edited by godwin; 09-24-2009 at 06:16 PM.
Reason: Added RevoKnuckle
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09-24-2009, 05:43 PM
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#35
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2x Variable Nockenwellen Steuerung
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: N49.2 W122.1
Posts: 3,338
Thanked 61 Times in 51 Posts
Failed 14 Times in 12 Posts
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Actually it is the suspension geometry that affects the handling more.. double wishbone or not is more of a packaging issue.
And yes the suspension geometry is also limited by the packaging of the engine and the drivetrain.
Fundamentally FWD is designed for manufacturing efficiency and low cost.. much like CVT. If you want real good performance that is on par with RWD, in the end you have to spend more to get the same results.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rikaro
^
he pretty much said it. Light chassis and double wishbone suspension. Some swaps are pretty much bolt on and yet you get good gas mileage out of it.
But being a Honda owner I feel ashamed of what your friend has said.
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Last edited by godwin; 09-24-2009 at 06:02 PM.
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09-24-2009, 05:45 PM
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#36
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resident Oil Guru
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 3,207
Thanked 1,139 Times in 299 Posts
Failed 202 Times in 90 Posts
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^
Yup. For example. the RSX uses front McPhersons.
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09-24-2009, 06:04 PM
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#37
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I bringith the lowerballerith
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: vanc
Posts: 1,161
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Failed 1 Time in 1 Post
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evolutionian
What makes Honda FWDs better than other FWDs?
What makes them better than some other FWDs in the market?
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VTEC! 
__________________
Quote:
Originally posted by Bruce-Leroy
Holy fuck what's with all the ballers today? Jesus Christ I feel like I'm on welfare.
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AK Autoworks
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09-24-2009, 06:05 PM
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#38
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Where's my RS Christmas Lobster?!
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: 604
Posts: 885
Thanked 90 Times in 47 Posts
Failed 9 Times in 7 Posts
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You can do decent things with McHappy struts, but if one is designing a performance car from the ground up, one generally wouldn't start with a strut setup.
FWD is never going to be able to put down power like RWD or have the handling balance quite like RWD either.
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09-24-2009, 06:07 PM
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#39
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The "You'd Know" Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Home
Posts: 20,603
Thanked 142 Times in 65 Posts
Failed 8 Times in 6 Posts
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How do you feel having 2 back wheels doing nothing at all other than rolling?
__________________
08 CBR600RR
03 IS300
Ezekiel 25:17. The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness. For he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know I am the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you.
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09-24-2009, 06:24 PM
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#40
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RS.net, where our google ads make absolutely no sense!
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: richmond
Posts: 922
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Failed 0 Times in 0 Posts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mugen EvOlutioN
werd
i thought Mazda 3 handles the best in it class
the suspensoin is pretty firm yet the ride isnt harsh at all
by the way, all 4 banger lacks of torque.
U dont hear ppl bitching holly fuck my V6/V8/V12 has no torque god damn!
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LOL
4 bangers lack torque? My 2.5 sentra puts about 180 torque at around 2500 rpm...The SRT-4 Caliber pushes around 285....
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09-24-2009, 06:50 PM
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#41
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Willing to sell a family member for a few minutes on RS
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 14,650
Thanked 395 Times in 236 Posts
Failed 740 Times in 287 Posts
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^
2500rpm?
try again
With these modifications, the power achieved is 200 horsepower at 6,600 rpm and 180 lb-ft of torque at 5,200 rpm (when using premium unleaded fuel). Helping to put all this power to the ground is an optional Helical Limited-Slip Differential (available with Spec V only). The Spec V model is available only with a close-ratio 6-speed manual transmission. It also has unique suspension, brakes, tires and body structure changes (versus the base SE-R).
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09-24-2009, 07:05 PM
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#42
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No Duplicate Accounts Allowed
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: cana
Posts: 20
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Failed 0 Times in 0 Posts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mugen EvOlutioN
^
2500rpm?
try again
With these modifications, the power achieved is 200 horsepower at 6,600 rpm and 180 lb-ft of torque at 5,200 rpm (when using premium unleaded fuel). Helping to put all this power to the ground is an optional Helical Limited-Slip Differential (available with Spec V only). The Spec V model is available only with a close-ratio 6-speed manual transmission. It also has unique suspension, brakes, tires and body structure changes (versus the base SE-R).
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Most people would rather get the 180lb-ft@5,200rpm than the 139lb-ft@6100rpm, unless he/she is a honda fanboi.
not to say, the spec V is 6 grands cheaper than the Civic. 
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09-24-2009, 07:06 PM
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#43
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Lomac owned my ass at least once
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: CowBay/Victoria
Posts: 6,368
Thanked 277 Times in 98 Posts
Failed 29 Times in 11 Posts
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Unless you are tracking your car, or breaking road laws on a regular basis, RWD is a novelty.
__________________
1968 Mustang Coupe - Summer Fun
2008.5 Mazdaspeed 3 - Daily Driving
2002 Ford Ranger Edge - Camping & Hauling
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09-24-2009, 07:11 PM
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#44
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Willing to sell a family member for a few minutes on RS
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 14,650
Thanked 395 Times in 236 Posts
Failed 740 Times in 287 Posts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChinesePetro
Most people would rather get the 180lb-ft@5,200rpm than the 139lb-ft@6100rpm, unless he/she is a honda fanboi.
not to say, the spec V is 6 grands cheaper than the Civic. |
 and u are comparing with Si because?
did i say SER is a bad car? no i love it, its affordable yet its a huge improvement over the last gen. And i mean HUGE!
why not compare apple to apple, u are comparing a 2.5L to a 2.0L in terms of torque because?
TSX K24
4-cyl 172 @ 4300rpm torque
201@7100rpm hp
are you gonna apply that faggot logic of urs?
most people would prefer the 172@4300rpm torque over the 180@ 5200rpm logic again? oh wait, this time honda is being placed in the first place so i know u will apply someting else
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09-24-2009, 07:11 PM
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#45
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RS has made me the bitter person i am today!
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: vancouver
Posts: 4,666
Thanked 254 Times in 90 Posts
Failed 121 Times in 48 Posts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Great68
Unless you are tracking your car, or breaking road laws on a regular basis, RWD is a novelty.
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+1
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09-24-2009, 07:21 PM
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#46
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No Duplicate Accounts Allowed
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: LM
Posts: 7
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Failed 0 Times in 0 Posts
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a stock civic SI will stomp your stock Mazda 3 anytime
to op: watch for r18 civics
cuz
si is outta ur league
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09-24-2009, 07:24 PM
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#47
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RS has made me the bitter person i am today!
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: vancouver
Posts: 4,666
Thanked 254 Times in 90 Posts
Failed 121 Times in 48 Posts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaughnessyREN
a stock civic SI will stomp your stock Mazda 3 anytime
to op: watch for r18 civics
cuz
si is outta ur league
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LOL guess who's back!
the 148hp mazda 3 is slower than an si? 
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09-24-2009, 07:37 PM
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#48
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Willing to sell a family member for a few minutes on RS
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 14,650
Thanked 395 Times in 236 Posts
Failed 740 Times in 287 Posts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaughnessyREN
a stock civic SI will stomp your stock Mazda 3 anytime
to op: watch for r18 civics
cuz
si is outta ur league
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lol u are alive again
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09-24-2009, 08:24 PM
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#49
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I bringith the lowerballerith
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: bc
Posts: 1,124
Thanked 27 Times in 16 Posts
Failed 16 Times in 10 Posts
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Mazda 3 is a fine automobile. But a modified Honda is a bit more superior. I believe your friend was talking about Type R, SIR, B16 swapped Civic Hatch or even a H22 Prelude. I've driven the Mazda 3 and owned a Protege5. I have to agree that the Mazda 3 have a nice firm suspension and handles really well when breaking the municipal law. But I've to agree that Honda does built a better car in terms of FWD performance. I've also owned a H22 Prelude which is a very fun car to drive which i would rate it higher than a Mazda 3 or Protege 5. Let alone the Type R and B16 swapped Civics, these Honda have way more fun than a slightly suspension tuned Mazda 3. If you wanna compare Mazdaspeed 3 with hondas, you better stack it up with a Type R or a RSX-S or even a WRX for comparison.
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09-24-2009, 09:52 PM
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#50
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I *heart* Revscene.net very Muchie
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 3,970
Thanked 16 Times in 9 Posts
Failed 0 Times in 0 Posts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaughnessyREN
a stock civic SI will stomp your stock Mazda 3 anytime
to op: watch for r18 civics
cuz
si is outta ur league
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and my car can smoke both those cars. lol who gives a shit.
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