Feb. 12, 2009: Make Some NOISE/1 Year to 2010!

[Noir]

Originally Posted by 89blkcivic

I love the Olympics.......... just hold it somewhere else.

Haven't the poor suffered enough? Holding the Olympics here does nothing for the poor. Only the rich prosper. It leaves a legacy of......... really do you think the poor will go ice skating or skiing? They have hard enough time putting food on the table.

Like I said, I like the Olympics, just not all the costs and commercialism it involves. Good times for the well to do, but homelessness, poverty, health care, education, etc. need funding.

It's too late to protest now that it is going to be here, but it should have been held elsewhere. I guess it's good for the athletes having home court advantage, but..........

As much as I understand the POV of the anti-olympic community, the inner hockey nut in me just can't resist the opportunity of our boys representing right in our own backyard.

Unfortunately when it comes to hockey for me, inhibition > reason. SumAznGuy can vouch

[MG1]

Originally Posted by Noir

As much as I understand the POV of the anti-olympic community, the inner hockey nut in me just can't resist the opportunity of our boys representing right in our own backyard.

Unfortunately when it comes to hockey for me, inhibition > reason. SumAznGuy can vouch

I agree with you, Noir. I think it's going to be a really good thing for hockey and sports in general. I too, live and breathe hockey. Like I said, I'm no longer in the poor category. I grew up in a poor neighbourhood and that's probably why I get a little hot under the collar, when it comes to the poor and disadvantaged. I lived a block away from Main and Hastings - for 16 years.

I really should move on and behave, talk, and think like a middle class citizen, now that I am. Still hard to forget where I came from. Still can't bring myself to throw things out because it's getting old, shit like that.

And, to Hondaracer.... I'm sorry I jumped at your comments. It wasn't meant as an attack on you as a person. Just that I get a little crazy when it comes to people not understanding the hardships poor people face day in and day out.

[icemiko]

More taxes.

[icemiko]

....wtf double post...

[Hondaracer]

grouping homelessness and the poor into the olympics is ignorant, yes you can say all day long that if u spent a billion dollars on homlessness that the problem would be solved [potentially not but people can think that way] but that wouldnt happen

throwing money at homelessness does nothing, building twenty highrises for homless to live in does nothing, so at what point do u say maybe money could be used in other places or other resources to better the city/province as a whole? for the actual hard working people, businesses, and communities that put money and time into projects and developments that pay taxes for what? like i said safe injection sites?

what would you rather tax dollars go towards, an olympic skating oval which is going to truely show off Canadian lumber and forest products [if u havent been to the oval yet u will see why when u go], a highway to whistler which will be an everlasting improvement, etc. etc. or some fucking needles for junkies to shoot up with?

homlessness can be summed up in Vancouver with a small cliche, you give an inch they take a mile, just because you think somthing is fixed doesnt mean the future doesnt bring up further problems and challenges, it will be an ongoing problem forever until Vancouver begins to see -40 tempatures from global warming, the amount of homless and their needs grow quicker then the cars/highways issues in BC.

[SlySi]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

grouping homelessness and the poor into the olympics is ignorant, yes you can say all day long that if u spent a billion dollars on homlessness that the problem would be solved [potentially not but people can think that way] but that wouldnt happen

throwing money at homelessness does nothing, building twenty highrises for homless to live in does nothing, so at what point do u say maybe money could be used in other places or other resources to better the city/province as a whole? for the actual hard working people, businesses, and communities that put money and time into projects and developments that pay taxes for what? like i said safe injection sites?

what would you rather tax dollars go towards, an olympic skating oval which is going to truely show off Canadian lumber and forest products [if u havent been to the oval yet u will see why when u go], a highway to whistler which will be an everlasting improvement, etc. etc. or some fucking needles for junkies to shoot up with?

homlessness can be summed up in Vancouver with a small cliche, you give an inch they take a mile, just because you think somthing is fixed doesnt mean the future doesnt bring up further problems and challenges, it will be an ongoing problem forever until Vancouver begins to see -40 tempatures from global warming, the amount of homless and their needs grow quicker then the cars/highways issues in BC.

Interesting point of view.
Well said.

[MG1]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

grouping homelessness and the poor into the olympics is ignorant,

snip, snip, snip

OK, forget the homeless - bad choice. Just as bad as mentioning those useless drug addicts. They can die for all we care, right?

The poor are not going to benefit from any of this. You talk about the venues. Great. I see the benefit. It is always the people with money who win in these situations. It's like the tax benefit given to parents so they can get a break on sports equipment and whatnot. Again, great, but tell that to the single moms out there who can't even buy skates let alone get their kids to a rink or join a league. They can only dream about their kids getting any kind of opportunity.

As for the safe injection site. Uh, it saves lives, and believe it or not, yours and mine in the grander scheme of things. Right, forgot. Who gives a flying fuck about those low lifes.


"There by the grace of god go I".

[MG1]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

what would you rather tax dollars go towards, an olympic skating oval which is going to truely show off Canadian lumber and forest products [if u havent been to the oval yet u will see why when u go], a highway to whistler which will be an everlasting improvement, etc. etc. or some fucking needles for junkies to shoot up with?

You're seeing this from your eyes. A lot of people are not as fortunate as you. There are plenty of people who cannot go to Whistler or to the oval, or to much. It's called scraping along to make a living. A highway to Whistler might a well be a highway to hell. The poor don't have cars. Won't mention homeless people again. There are people out there who cannot make ends meet. They don't use drugs, or rob people, or line up for hand outs. Most of them have two or more jobs. You need to get out and see the rest of the world. Nuff said.

[phatpower]

I will shout show me the money bitches then finish it with a epic FAIL

[Noir]

Originally Posted by 89blkcivic

You're seeing this from your eyes. A lot of people are not as fortunate as you. There are plenty of people who cannot go to Whistler or to the oval, or to much. It's called scraping along to make a living. A highway to Whistler might a well be a highway to hell. The poor don't have cars. Won't mention homeless people again. There are people out there who cannot make ends meet. They don't use drugs, or rob people, or line up for hand outs. Most of them have two or more jobs. You need to get out and see the rest of the world. Nuff said.

I hear what you say, and I guess your previous background does shed some light into the depth of your current opinion.

But that being said, isn't increasing government support for the poor or homeless just encourages dependency on government aid? Kind of like pre-mature parents aren't deterred to have more kids because of welfare grants. In the same way, I can't foresee homeless people bettering their situation when they can get food and housing for free.

Do people remember APC and the interview with their president? I find it ironic, that he says its impossible for the people he represents to obtain jobs without the availability of an address, yet I believe he was questioned about his current occupation and his unwillingess to work full-time.

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by 89blkcivic

OK, forget the homeless - bad choice. Just as bad as mentioning those useless drug addicts. They can die for all we care, right?

The poor are not going to benefit from any of this. You talk about the venues. Great. I see the benefit. It is always the people with money who win in these situations. It's like the tax benefit given to parents so they can get a break on sports equipment and whatnot. Again, great, but tell that to the single moms out there who can't even buy skates let alone get their kids to a rink or join a league. They can only dream about their kids getting any kind of opportunity.

As for the safe injection site. Uh, it saves lives, and believe it or not, yours and mine in the grander scheme of things. Right, forgot. Who gives a flying fuck about those low lifes.


"There by the grace of god go I".

Well what would you propose then? the government just released an additional 2 months of UI for these single mothers to help them in between jobs, would you just give them free money? could you not consider at some point in their lives they made a couple bad choices which put them in that predicament? perhaps they should consider moving somewhere else where they could actually afford to live rather then scraping by in a society where the cost of living is astronomical?

without construction of venues thousands of trades people, many whom you could consider "poor" would be completely out of work and not have the ability to get by, pay taxes, pay their living expenses not to mention the COUNTLESS other jobs created by projects not directly associated with the olympics as well as positions created for the build up, and aftermath of said games

Please enlighten me on where these jobs could be found WITHOUT the olympics coming? especially in economic times like these.

Originally Posted by 89blkcivic

You're seeing this from your eyes. A lot of people are not as fortunate as you. There are plenty of people who cannot go to Whistler or to the oval, or to much. It's called scraping along to make a living. A highway to Whistler might a well be a highway to hell. The poor don't have cars. Won't mention homeless people again. There are people out there who cannot make ends meet. They don't use drugs, or rob people, or line up for hand outs. Most of them have two or more jobs. You need to get out and see the rest of the world. Nuff said.

As i said in my above post, if you are working 2 jobs and barely scraping by living, your probably doing somthing wrong if your working at mcdonalds and wendys and trying to live in a condo in burnaby, you dont think thats a choice that should be reevaluated?

In life you have to make sacrafices and decisions that will put yourself, your kids, your family into a better position then they currently are, if you cant do that then you should seek other means or accept that you dont have the will to make a better life for yourself

Im sick of hearing people in Vancouver especially the "homeless coalition" who say this and that should be given to them, that there are no jobs available, and they cant find their means to survive in Vancouver

as cliche as it's going to sound, my grandparents moved to Canada in the 50's with absolutely NOTHING, not only did they have not a penny to their name, they actually owed immigration canada $300 because the Canadian government had to lend them the money to pay all the imigration fee's etc.

both of them found means of living, both of them worked their fucking asses off to create somthing for themselves for nothing, wether that meant my grandpa taking up construction jobs in northern BC and the Yukon because of the lack of work in the lower mainland [which for the last 15 years there has been no such thing] or my grandma working 12 hour night shifts and 2 jobs until they could finally settle in, they had a big family, built a large home in a now highly regarded community, and now live happily retired

but no, some fucking goof downtown who has the full ability to work and live, who has family or a reservation to go back to and work and live would rather suck dollars from other hard working people and demand that things are their RIGHT not Privilege, RIGHT to have.. it's a joke.

But thats all besides the point, and I highly doubt you were one of the people out picketing the olympics and gathering petitions so your nothing but a band wagon jumper grabbing onto the hate train

the bottom line is:

THE OLYMPICS ARE COMING WETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT

everyone as Canadians SHOULD support these games to make them an absolute success and make the most out of the opportunity that has been awarded to Vancouver

VanOC has nearly completed all venues and related projects well ahead of time, and although they may be over budget, they did an excellent job adjusting to this changing world economy and proceeding with plans that changed on a daily basis

Be a Proud Canadian/British Columbian and support these games when the world comes to Vancouver.

[Sodium]

I'm just glad that we got the Olympic Oval in Richmond.....ice skating ftw....^^~

[JHuJHu]

Olympics is very exciting to watch. especially the gynastics

[MG1]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

THE OLYMPICS ARE COMING WETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT

Be a Proud Canadian/British Columbian and support these games when the world comes to Vancouver.

If you read my original post, you would see that I said it was too late to protest and that it is coming no matter what. What does supporting the Olympics have to do with being a proud Canadian/British Columbian? I will support the athletes.

Hey, I give up. Let's just say you're right. No point arguing with you. You obviously see things only one way. Druggies, homeless, poor people, and now first nations people, are just lazy asses who can claw their way out of their situations if they only just tried a little harder.

[MG1]

Originally Posted by Noir

But that being said, isn't increasing government support for the poor or homeless just encourages dependency on government aid? Kind of like pre-mature parents aren't deterred to have more kids because of welfare grants. In the same way, I can't foresee homeless people bettering their situation when they can get food and housing for free.

Yes, handouts are not the answer. Our government, and I can't blame them at times, always end up just giving money away. There are ways of using funds more efficiently. There are people out there who are less fortunate, not through any fault of their own. The government have to target those people. I hear about homeless and you see able bodied people out there taking advantage of the government's stupidity. They take resources away from the true homeless. The true down and out. The solution is not easy. There's more to poverty than meets the eye. You only see stuff the media shows you. Anyway, I'm getting upset at what Hondaracer has been spewing out. I'm just going to tune it out, because I have better things to do. My family clawed their way out of that place. I'm thankful for the breaks we got. Back to looking out for number one.......... It's easier not to worry about other people.

[rsx]

I think everyone knows and understands the possibly moral hazard UI or 'handouts' create. But, like your grandfather, some need a little financial help to make it. The government is trying to help those who really need it. Unfortunately, there are those who choose to exploit the system. We can't shut down social assistance programs to eliminate any exploitation. You take the good with the bad. It's unfortunate, but that's life.

[Jason00S2000]

Originally Posted by 89blkcivic

Perhaps, kids from the Downtown Eastside can take a field trip to the Richmond Olympic Oval

Perhaps people who can't afford kids shouldn't have them?

[Peanut Butter Jelly Time!]

off-topic: poor people are essential to a capitalistic economy for the wealthy to build their empires off the backs off.

on-topic: so i heard there were problems with the roof of the oval in rmd cause it was built on silt and hence the slant/crack (or whatever it was). if something similar happens again say 5 years down the road, wouldn't the oval have just been a big waste of money for this one time event? if i remember correctly they only decided to build it in richmond to cut costs right?

[BoneThug]

does anyone else not care about the money and just about the congestion its going to cause? i'll still watch, but from some where far and safe. like mexico

[MG1]

Originally Posted by Jason00S2000

Perhaps people who can't afford kids shouldn't have them?

So quit knocking them up.


I know a woman with two young kids who lost her husband to cancer. He had no insurance and they just started out. She didn't ask for that, but life sucks and then you die.

There are tonnes of reasons why people become poor. Anyway.

[ZhangFei]

can someone answer me this question.

if the olympics is going to put us in debt, how does that affect our BC economy?

what are things that we can't do or can't have anymore?

[+Kardboard+]

A) The Olympics are coming, whether people like it or not. This has been said before.

B) We don't know what it's costing us, but the costs are definitely not borne by taxpayers alone. Fair enough? Everyone chips in, some more than others, but it's economic stimulus that will draw a flow of business and investment into Vancity and BC and Canada. Nothing's going to change overnight other than a warm fuzzy feeling that we had the freakin' Olympics here and that Quatchi got ripped apart by high schoolers who thought it was funny. Miga too.

C) Culturally and socially, this is gonna be one helluva boon to us. We get to show the world just how bloody awesome we are, but at the same time, it's a chance for the world to see our most shameful, most desperate and unfortunate sides. The Downtown Eastside is there, the drugs, the gangbangers and all the other things that cannot and should not be swept under the rug. My hope is that not only will the governments shape up and really do something constructive and lasting, but the private sector as well. Actually, I know of one group which is making big strides into getting corporations involved in dealing with homelessness (specifically). Guess what? It often costs more in social assistance than it does to have them housed and given a new chance at a proper life.

D) Change is coming. No one group, government or business is gonna take charge and run with the possible positivity. It's up to everyone.




















...and wtf I heard no honking SkyTrains....I got off just before six and the asshole bus driver saw me and took off and all I could do was Facebook at the station for 20 minutes.

[MG1]

Originally Posted by ZhangFei

can someone answer me this question.

if the olympics is going to put us in debt, how does that affect our BC economy?

what are things that we can't do or can't have anymore?

Good question. Here are my thoughts, not that I'm any expert. The Olympics will stimulate the economy, but I don't think it will last long. Sure, construction will be up and people will find jobs, but will that translate into spending by those who have the jobs? I think in these times, people are extra careful with their money. The Olympics will increase tourism. That's not a guarantee, either. The economy is not great around the world. I don't think people will have disposable income to travel. Although our fearless, drunken leader promises not to cut social programmes or education funding, those things will face cuts if the debt climbs past the worse case scenario.

The only way the government can get out of debt is to raise taxes. So, it comes out of everybody's pocket. Guys like Hondaracer won't mind, because an increase in taxes is a drop in the bucket. Plus, the feeling we get from hosting the event will keep us happy for quite some time. I don't know how people in the Interior and northern communities will take the increase in taxes. Like it was mentioned many times before, it's all too late.

What will we not have? Disposable income for people who are just above the poverty level. For the middle class and the rich? Not a big deal. For people living at or below the poverty level, one less meal for a day or two in a week? The very poor, of course, won't feel anything. You can't squeeze blood from a stone. For most of us on RS, it isn't a big deal.

It's a crap shoot. Perhaps by 2010, the world economy will pick up. The debt then is no big deal. If the economy worsens, then we just lost big time. Who would have predicted this when the Olympic bid came through a few years back? It's kind of neat that the organizers announced earlier that they were going to cut back on the costs of a few events. I think the world will understand the situation.

I remember the Olympics in Montreal. That city and its people were in debt for quite some time after the event. And they weren't going though tough times like we are now. I know, it was the summer Olympics and it costs way more to host a summer event. I can't remember how the Calgary Olympics went. Alberta has tonnes of money, so it probably wasn't a huge deal.

[Volvo-brickster]

Of course the olympics will make money for the economy.

Price gouging to the max !

Vancouver 2010, open to all but spectators.

[MG1]

Originally Posted by +Kardboard+

We don't know what it's costing us, but the costs are definitely not borne by taxpayers alone. Fair enough? Everyone chips in, some more than others, but it's economic stimulus that will draw a flow of business and investment into Vancity and BC and Canada.

Let's hope businesses step up to the plate. If they're still around. Everyone will share in the cost? Cool, because there's no escaping the debt. Most people are upbeat about the whole thing right now and that's good. As long as the good outweigh the bad. I hope for everyone's sake that the event is worth it. I just pointed out some of the negative sides. When we got the bid to host the event way back when, everybody was happy. Party time. We were told the costs and everything was hunky dory. Has anything come at or below the original cost estimate? Security costs sounds like it's way off.

Hey, it'll be good times for everybody from hookers and escorts to taxi drivers and car rental companies during the games. People who attend the Olympics, other than the athletes' families, will have lots of money to throw around.