Yes I agree, the average student does not need loans. But that is the average. Someone made a statement saying that "there should be no reason why anyone grads w/ a $30k debt for their undergrad." I stated that it is not true, then you stated it is.

But now you are stating that it only is for the "average" student. Meaning that more than 51%+ would not need loans, and 49% and bellow might. Even if it's 10% or less, your original statement of "sure it is" is false. I am not disagreeing with you that majority of the students should not need loans, but there are few out there who do, I am one of those cases. So for you to say NO ONE needs to have a 30k+ loan, that is false.

Just a fyi, students who are on loans usually take summer classes because then they don't have to pay the interest. Also for me, if I don't attend classes during the summer, I can't live on rez. So it's hard to work full time in the summer, when you are already taking full time school. The max student loan per semester for students without dependents is $5440 per semester so x 8 that is $43,520.

taylor192, if i could live at home for FREE or cheap (by cheap i mean few hundred bucks) and have utilities paid for, i would totally agree that you don't need a loan to get by school. but unfortunately for me, i dont have any free rides at all.

BTW, does anyone know if you can have an outstanding debt (like a normal LOC with some $ taken out of it) and still apply for student loan?

repayment plan usually works out to be equivalent to a 7 year repayment loan. well this is based off of a student loan.

as far as i remember, student line of credit follows similar rules, where as if u are 6 months out of registering for school, u start being obligated to pay for the interest.

What I said is the exceptions aren't worth considering.

Please quote where I said that. I have been consistent in stating the exceptions aren't worth considering. Perhaps you need to go back to school, your reading comprehension skills could use improvement.

Why do you NEED a loan?

Did you parents kick you out of the house? Did the room you grew up in suddenly cease to exist?

This thread is about a STUDENT LINE OF CREDIT, not a STUDENT LOAN.

If you are from a poor family you will easily qualify for a student LOAN. These are interest free until 6 months after you graduate. You do NOT need to work during the summer to maintain interest free status. In fact you can apply for interest free extensions - when I worked a 12 month co-op term I had to do this since I wasn't officially enrolled in school full-time.

We have been talking about a student LOC. This is for students who cannot get a LOAN. There is absolutely NO reason why a student should need a LOC.

You asked about using student LOC to increase your quality of life... and now you're saying you don't have a free ride? If you needed a student loan you'd be asking about how to barely live in Vancouver's expensive housing market, not about insuring a weekend car.

you are taking him seriously, why?

:D

To those that don't believe a student will ever need a loan lets look at some programs, specifically, medicine, since this has been a banking target for a number of years.

A student who applies to med school, does not often have the luxury of taking med within their geographic location. An BC student with great recommendations and A average, may still have to go to University of Manitoba.

This move alone creates a whole new world of expenses. I do believe that those students should live on residence (although it's not always the cheapest choice) and embrace learning over luxuries. It's hard to do considering many first year med students have undergrad classmates who are now working and making money while they're stuck paying money.

Keep in mind, you cannot work while going to med school like you can during an undergraduate degree. Med school requires 100% of your time. Sleep is a luxury when you're in the program.

Med school typically costs approx $10,000 a year and food is typically $500 a month. Yes, you could cheap out on the food portion but personally I don't believe your diet should suffer since health is paramount. Residence can typically cost $400-800 a month but sharing residence takes it down to the $400 mark.

Every year, if you're living like a poor student, it is likely to cost anywhere from $20 - $25,000 a year.

A 4 year program is now $100,000 of debt while going to school in Winnipeg away from your family. If you want to visit them, plane tickets aren't free so that adds to costs as well.

Student loans are the way to go initially since there is the opportunity for grants and there is no force payback or interest until completion of the program (6 months grace period).

This doesn't mean that everyone has to be in that situation. One friend of mine was given an M3 and a condo in the US to go to med school with all tuition expenses paid through scholarship. The parents already had money so they rewarded him for his crazy marks on the MCAT (I think it was 41R score and yes I'm jealous).

Another friend's parents just declared bankruptcy while he goes to Regina Med and he's lucky if his parents can spend money to send him a Christmas card.

First off, please quote me where I said increase the quality of life. Secondly, yes I don't have a free ride. Is that so hard to comprehend? Just because most people are breast-fed till their 30 and ready to move out of the house, doesn't mean I am. You need to see a bit more of the world out there, there's different types of people out there.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but to me, a MODERATE STANDARD OF LIVING is being able to put plates on the weekend car, pay for rent, afford a couple new pieces of inexpensive clothing every season, eat normal food, and have some money left over for movies, beers, cover for clubbing, concerts or shows, etc. I didn't say INCREASE the quality of living, I said MAINTAIN the quality of living. Maintain as in not changing, not affecting, to keep the same.

If you think maintaining this simple quality of living is farfetched for a student loan, then please read the below bolded words taken from student aid BC website:

Financial need assessment

The amount of money you receive from StudentAid BC depends on your financial need, which is calculated using this formula:
Educational costs – student resources = financial need

Educational costs include:

* Tuition, fees, books and school supplies.
* Moderate standard of living allowance for shelter, food, transportation and miscellaneous costs.
* Child/dependant living expenses.
* Day-care expenses.


http://www.nagatocity.net/blog/wp-co...girugamesh.png

we're talking about non-professional undergrad programs that doesnt require 3+ years of post-secondary credits. you can go on and talk about MBA, dentistry and vet where some can easily cost over $85k/yr.

By transportation and miscellaneous cost I'm pretty sure it's covering insurance/gas for a beater car, have normal food, medical/dental/eye care expenses, maybe hair cuts, but definately not money to be spent on movies, clubbing, concerts etc.

Leisiure,past-time and recreation should be coming out of one's pocket...save the LOC/student loan for somebody that can't even have enough for paying their tuition.

Your first post in this thread was about "up your living condition", not maintaining a moderate standard of living. It seems like your definition of standards of living is far from the average "student budget" standards of living.

LOL I'm new here, haven't figured out who talks and who walks yet. :thumbsup:

LOL thanks dude. :thumbsup:

Its the term "weekend car" that killed me, if you're a student and need a loan, you should be taking the bus.

ok well by up living conditions, i meant from that of ghetto sardine can scrapping, out in 2 degree temperatures in the pouring rain, etcetc. by no means do i plan on prospering or blowing money lent for an education on a lifestyle that i normally wouldnt have before. i just think that without decent full time job, i wont have the financial resources necessary to maintain my present standard of living. now its fair to say that you a student should compromise and make sacrifices during the time that he or she is in school, i just think if i compromised any further, i would be at that level of sardine can scrapping.

those costs you mentioned are exactly what im thinking about. normal food, funding for health, definitely need haircuts. but what difference is insuring my beater car versus my weekender? they both cost the same for insurance per month. assuming i wont have time to go anywhere on the weekdays, the cost for gas is negligible too

so i should sell my car, which i spent the past couple of years earning money for, in order to go to school. the thing depreciated liek 4k already, it's more feasible to keep the thing for the long run than to sell it, go to school, then buy another car after school. in fact, if i had the time right now i could pull up some numbers on exactly how much $ i'd save by keeping my present car than selling it just to go to school then buying another one, given that student loans are no interest/low interest.

This is why you have to list all assets when applying for a student loan. If you own a car, you can sell it to go to school. Or you can use it to drive from living at home to school.

Why should I, as a tax payer, fund your zero interest student loan so you can keep your car? Yes it'd be financially better for you to keep it, yet its not about you, its about subsidizing loaning money to students that NEED it. Sell the car, you obviously don't need it.

You're as bad as a homeless person asking for a handout, yet at least the bum is honest they he'll spend it on booze, hookers and blow.

What makes you so entitled that you cannot take public transit?

why are we still on this?

Shouldnt people realize it will be pointless to post anything after reading "Is it common to use it to up your living expenses, and overall standard of living"?

Although I have to say, it has been entertaining to read the comments for the past few days. This definitely helped ease the boring office mood. :D

are you kidding me? when im in school, almost no income, i'm expected to sell all of my assets and start from ground zero? that's the most conservative logic i've ever heard of.

you want the other side of that coin? if i sold my car (which is worth under $10k, pricing next door to beater cars), i'd have to work for that X long to earn $ back to buy the car at that value. that's money i won't be plugging back into the economy during the time i'm saving up to buy the car. if i kept my asset, as soon as im out of school and paid the loan off, im plugging $ into the economy FASTER/SOONER than if i had sold my car. in addition, i think it would be pretty homosexual if i had to take a bus to my professional job because i was an IDIOT and sold my only asset to go to school, because apparently it saves taxpayers money.

what you dont realize is i'm not consuming taxpayers money (which is money i've been paying for the past several years, mind you), i'm simply borrowing it. you're comparing me to a bums and politicians that CONSUME tax money. i think you need to lay off the ignorant super-conservative logic of not touching tax dollar, because you forget, i pay taxes too. just because i choose to exercise my rights and give myself some financial leverage in school doesn't make me comparable to free handout taking bums on the street.

i presently own a vehicle. i would take public transit if i did not own a vehicle.

I am from Ontario, a much more conservative province that the "left" coast.

Stretch often? Yawn, you're starting to bore with with your ill-conceived logic.

I have coworkers making close to 6 figures that take the bus or bike. That's pretty entitled and demeaning for you to say every professional is above taking the bus.

Who do you think pays the interest while you're borrowing that money?
You're consuming that interest, no matter how to attempt to spin it.

I'm comparing you to a bum that sits with his hand out asking for government money. You're consuming tax payer money to pay the interest on your loan. Money isn't free, you'll hopefully learn that in school.

Unless you're making more than $60K, you're a drain on the system. 50% of the taxes are paid by people making more than $60K. So if you were making less than $60K, you were paying less than the average amount of tax, and thus using more than you were paying for.

What you're exercising is typical leftist socialist bullshit, asking for those who pay the majority of taxes to subsidize your lifestyle, when you're perfectly capable of doing it yourself if you were willing to make a sacrifice.

Most bums are perfectly capable of working, yet sit with their hand out cause its easier. You are a bum, with your hand out instead of making your life a little harder and doing it yourself.

so if i receive an interest rate at prime, would that change your entire argument about being a bum? then it would simply a matter of borrowing money. going even more conservative, i could argue that NOBODY needs a student loan. because anyone who can attend school should be able to save up $ to pay for school right?? anyone can get a job at mcdonalds, therefore, student loans aren't needed.

you seem to have a strong judgmental opinion on what constitutes as transportation. first it has to be a beater car, then it has to be the bus. what if i dont live on route? what is considered on route to you, is it exactly 300m from the nearest bus stop? what if i live 301m from the bus stop, would that 1m make it OK to use the $ for my car?

what consitutes as a beater car to you, does it have to be <$1000? what if its $1000.99? what's the difference between insuring and maintaining both cars if insurance, maintenance, and fuel costs the same??

so make poor/poorer peoples lives harder for richer people to benefit? that's exactly what we need, we need to separate the rich and poor even further apart. i'm not capable of generating enough income to maintain a moderate standard of living while taking full time classes, unless i sold a kidney. should i do that? it's an asset...

Again you're stretching DQ.

If you want to take a LOC at prime from a bank to finance "up living conditions" then go ahead, its your money you're wasting.

Student loans are for need, those without the capital to pay for school. You have it, others don't.

Are you even listening, or just trying to stretch to make your point.

Lets take "car" out of it completely since you're missing the point.

If you have a $10K asset (in your case, a $10K car) and are whining about paying for school and needing a loan, your whining is falling on deaf ears. Sell the asset, pay for school. Done.

Now you're officially a DQ.

If living at home and taking the bus to school isn't moderate, then you need a reality check.

I love latte liberals that whine about the rich not subsidizing their lifestyle.
Its "The Ant and the Grasshopper" story that Disney tricked us into believing the hard working Ant will bail out the Grasshopper. In the older versions the Grasshopper dies.

you're a funny guy. very old fashioned, very conservative. you remind me of those old people that grumble about how society has flipped upside down, and everything's going to shit. but the world still grows, with ups and downs, on average it still grows and thats how society works. just for shits and giggles, i'll list my intepretation of supplements for post secondary school, and your rebuttal for each one:

Pro: Cars can be convenient for going to school, getting to a part-time job promptly and quickly, and pooling with other students
Con: The bus is a formidable option. We plug millions into translink each year, so use it. Get a part-time job that starts later in the day and ends even later in the evening. Your sacrifice, our gain.

Pro: Backpacks and messenger bags are a convenient way of carrying books
Con: Millions of shopping bags are thrown into the dump every year. You should recycle by using shopping bags to carry your books

Pro: A personal computer at home not only provides entertainment, but is essential in almost every one of today's studies
Con: Library's have computers you can use between the hours of 9am - 8pm. Our tax dollars pay for them, so use it. Masturbation is an entertainment alternative, besides, you're probably using the computer for it anyways. You have have hands and imagination, so use it.

Pro: I need financial help because I have to pay rent
Con: No you don't, living at home means financial immunity from paying rent. What kind of sick parent would ask their grown child for rent money to support their mortgage? That's unrealistic. But if it's true, they're sick parents, so use them.

Don't worry, your latte liberal views will change when you become the "professional" you keep referencing and realize the government takes 30% of your salary, plus property tax, plus sales tax... leaving you 50 cents on the dollar.

This is the only relevant one you posted. Stay off the wacky tobacy dude, I know you're a burnt out in school, yet try to at least sound like you're getting a worthwhile education we're subsidizing for you.

Parents make their grown adult children living at home pay rent for a lesson - to teach them about finances. It has nothing to do with helping out with the mortgage.

Really, lay off the drugs, you're making no sense.

Hope this helps :thumbsup:

Go to do the school = need stuff.
Need use car, like need use computer, backpack, food, shelter, entertainment. Need car because car go fast. Legs too slow, bus take long.

Now do you get it? My latte's getting cold, if you got a minute can you fill it up for me

I'm not the latte liberal working in the coffee shop. You can get your own coffee.

Read your books on the bus instead of wasting time/money on car/gas/parking/repairs/maintenance. You might learn something! :thumbsup:

Reading books on the bus doesn't pay the bills or get me to jobs, appointments, school, family/friends faster. Driving does. When you have a busy, fast-paced schedule, the cost of operating a vehicle becomes an investment. An investment like student loans are for our economy.. hmm..