REVscene - Vancouver Automotive Forum

124Y · 03-17-2009, 02:24 AM

Hey guys,

I have recently been involved in a light fender-bender accident in a parking lot with a good friend. We didn't call ICBC as we both agreed to sort out the responsibilities by ourselves. My friend doesn't have a B.C. driver's license but HAD a international license which expired already. If we were to go through ICBC, and ICBC determines that I'm at fault for this accident, will ICBC hold me liable to pay for his repairs even though he is driving without a driver's license?

johny · 03-17-2009, 03:41 PM

he will be deemed 100% at fault for not having a licence. and will get in huge trouble.

if he trys to drive again without a licence. kick him in the balls.

124Y · 03-17-2009, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johny

he will be deemed 100% at fault for not having a licence. and will get in huge trouble.

Hmm are you sure? I have asked some insurance brokers. Some said it still depends on ICBC and some said ICBC might have both my friend and I cover our own damages if I am indeed at fault for the accident. Still, thanks for the reply!

BabyblooLexus · 03-17-2009, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johny

he will be deemed 100% at fault for not having a licence. and will get in huge trouble.

if he trys to drive again without a licence. kick him in the balls.

!!!

but yes if u guys go thru icbc ure friend is screwed

124Y · 03-17-2009, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BabyblooLexus

!!!

but yes if u guys go thru icbc ure friend is screwed

Haha yea...and I do NOT want to screw my friend over...

But I also don't want him to be rubbing it in my face saying I'm at fault...

zulutango · 03-17-2009, 07:46 PM

The quickest thing to break up a friendship/family/business...you name it...is a dispute over money. Do the right thing to protect yourself and report it and him, to ICBC. As ICBC says on the back of the insurance form...his actions "may invalidate the certificate". He is driving illegally. Tell him to park the car immediately and get his BC DL as he MUST to be able to drive here. Tell him if he moves it without his BC DL you will call the Police immediately. There is a reason he has not obtained his legal DL. Do not be a party to his actions...it could cost you. Bet he drove away from the crash and I bet he's driving at this moment. He needs to be stopped.

skidmark · 03-17-2009, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 124Y

but HAD a international license

No such thing....

tiger_handheld · 03-17-2009, 07:53 PM

wow, icbc gives a rats ass if ur driving with or without a license. apparently driving without a license is not against the law. please see my previous post re: this topic and an accident that happened as a result.

Skidmark might remember?

124Y · 03-17-2009, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zulutango

The quickest thing to break up a friendship/family/business...you name it...is a dispute over money. Do the right thing to protect yourself and report it and him, to ICBC. As ICBC says on the back of the insurance form...his actions "may invalidate the certificate". He is driving illegally. Tell him to park the car immediately and get his BC DL as he MUST to be able to drive here. Tell him if he moves it without his BC DL you will call the Police immediately. There is a reason he has not obtained his legal DL. Do not be a party to his actions...it could cost you. Bet he drove away from the crash and I bet he's driving at this moment. He needs to be stopped.

Yea, I agree it's harsh on the friendship, but business is business. That is why we decided to settle it ourselves and come up to an agreement. I am questioning what outcomes ICBC may lead to simply to back myself up. As for the driver's license part, I am not sure how the international license thing works. He told me his international license expired a short while ago and he is waiting for his mom to renew it for him somehow??

124Y · 03-17-2009, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skidmark

No such thing....

Hmm what do you mean no such thing? Perhaps something similar to the "International Drivering Permit (IDP)"

Soundy · 03-17-2009, 08:18 PM

Like skidmark said, there's no such thing as an "international license". There's an "international driver's permit" that's an extension of the driver's actual license from another country, but it's nothing on its own.

Bottom line, your friend was driving illegally and chances are very good that ICBC would consider him 100% at fault for the simple fact that neither he nor his car should have been on the road in the first place.

Soundy · 03-17-2009, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 124Y

Hmm what do you mean no such thing? Perhaps something similar to the "International Drivering Permit (IDP)"

This gets asked about once a month around here.

:

124Y · 03-17-2009, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soundy

Like skidmark said, there's no such thing as an "international license". There's an "international driver's permit" that's an extension of the driver's actual license from another country, but it's nothing on its own.

Bottom line, your friend was driving illegally and chances are very good that ICBC would consider him 100% at fault for the simple fact that neither he nor his car should have been on the road in the first place.

Yeah that's what I thought in the first place as well. Thanks for clearing it up!

dark0821 · 03-17-2009, 09:00 PM

well.. reporting will result him in more trouble than ICBC...
as it will incur if not garentee an ticket against him by a police officer for driving a motor vehicle with no licence

124Y · 03-17-2009, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dark0821

well.. reporting will result him in more trouble than ICBC...
as it will incur if not garentee an ticket against him by a police officer for driving a motor vehicle with no licence

lol I know who you are you could've just MSNed me...

But yea, that is one of the reasons why I did not want to report it to ICBC. After all, he is a really good friend and I do not want to bring him any trouble. I simply want to find out the outcome for the worse case scenario: Putting friendship aside and abide ICBC's decisions...

Eff-1 · 03-17-2009, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 124Y

If we were to go through ICBC, and ICBC determines that I'm at fault for this accident, will ICBC hold me liable to pay for his repairs even though he is driving without a driver's license?

Yes.

This is my understanding:

Just because he doesn't have a valid DL doesn't automatically make the accident his "fault". All it means is that his insurance coverage is invalid.

But if the accident is still your fault, you still have to pay.

Example:

If you run a stop sign and hit someone else, and the other person has no license, then he doesn't get coverage for his repairs (because he violated the terms of his insurance contract), but you still are stuck with paying for your own repairs (or face a premium increase) because you caused the accident.

124Y · 03-17-2009, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eff-1

Yes.

This is my understanding:

Just because he doesn't have a valid DL doesn't automatically make the accident his "fault". All it means is that his insurance coverage is invalid.

But if the accident is still your fault, you still have to pay.

I understand what you meant and I have thought of this possible outcome as well. So you mean that if I am 100% at fault for this accident, the most I will have to pay is for my own damages, and not his?

Also, what about looking at this from another perspective: Since this accident is ambiguous as to who's fault it is (from my point of view), but it is leaning towards my fault, perhaps not having a valid DL also means that my friend does not have sufficient knowledge and experience to operate a vehicle on public roads? Furthermore, he shouldn't have been on the road in the first place, correct?

By and large, thanks for your input. Glad to hear from another perspective!

Soundy · 03-17-2009, 11:16 PM

I think the answer is, "it depends". There's no way for us to say for sure how ICBC would rule on this. I strongly suspect you'd see them finding your friend 100% at fault, again, based on the presumption that he shouldn't have been on the road to begin with.

Even if you are found 100% at fault, ICBC will still likely cover your damages... it will just likely affect your discount the next time you renew your insurance. Check www.icbc.com for "Claim Rated Scale" for more details on how this works.

124Y · 03-17-2009, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soundy

I think the answer is, "it depends". There's no way for us to say for sure how ICBC would rule on this. I strongly suspect you'd see them finding your friend 100% at fault, again, based on the presumption that he shouldn't have been on the road to begin with.

Even if you are found 100% at fault, ICBC will still likely cover your damages... it will just likely affect your discount the next time you renew your insurance. Check www.icbc.com for "Claim Rated Scale" for more details on how this works.

Well, I didn't want to affect my discounts, so if I'm at fault I'll pay for it myself anyway; therefore, I am not concerned about ICBC covering my damages.

What I AM concerned about is finding out who is at fault from ICBC's point of view so I can discuss this matter with my friend and come to a fair agreement. Right now, my friend thinks I am 100% at fault because he thinks not having a driver's license did not lead to this accident.

I understand no one is 100% sure on how ICBC would rule on this, but based on the replies in this thread and from a few insurance brokers, I can jump to the conclusion that there is NO way I am paying for 100% of the damage on both the cars.

zulutango · 03-18-2009, 06:32 AM

Is your friend still driving? He is a liability to himself and to others. Any crash he is involved in will not cover him for liability and make it tough on the person he hits. You both know he is driving illegally and you could be considered a party to the offence in any legal proceedings. The fact you are covering for him has already involved you. I will warn you again, report this crash to ICBC. If the damage total is over $1000, by law you are required to report it. Reporting and claiming it are two different things.

124Y · 03-18-2009, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zulutango

Is your friend still driving? He is a liability to himself and to others. Any crash he is involved in will not cover him for liability and make it tough on the person he hits. You both know he is driving illegally and you could be considered a party to the offence in any legal proceedings. The fact you are covering for him has already involved you. I will warn you again, report this crash to ICBC. If the damage total is over $1000, by law you are required to report it. Reporting and claiming it are two different things.

Yes my friend is apparently still driving. I will address this issue to him and show him this thread if necessary when we sit down face to face to talk about this. I'm sure you know it's hard to sell a friend out just like that...

CRS · 03-18-2009, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 124Y

Yes my friend is apparently still driving. I will address this issue to him and show him this thread if necessary when we sit down face to face to talk about this. I'm sure you know it's hard to sell a friend out just like that...

If any of my friends drove/is driving without a license, it wouldn't be hard at all for me to call him/her out.

I'd simply say that he/she is a @#$%ing idiot and ICBC will bum rape them for all their worth and all their children's worth if they get into an accident. Not to mention if caught by police.

Eff-1 · 03-18-2009, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 124Y

I understand what you meant and I have thought of this possible outcome as well. So you mean that if I am 100% at fault for this accident, the most I will have to pay is for my own damages, and not his?

It depends on if they choose to cover him or not. If they do, then you'll have to pay for his damage as well. If they don't, then you won't have to. In either case, the most that you'll have to pay is the cost of your collision deductible (or you pay ICBC back for 100% of the repairs).

Quote:

Originally Posted by 124Y

Also, what about looking at this from another perspective: Since this accident is ambiguous as to who's fault it is (from my point of view), but it is leaning towards my fault, perhaps not having a valid DL also means that my friend does not have sufficient knowledge and experience to operate a vehicle on public roads? Furthermore, he shouldn't have been on the road in the first place, correct?

It depends on the circumstances of the accident. Without knowing more details, it's impossible to answer this question.

I would disagree with people who believe that just because he doesn't have a license, it will automatically be 100% his fault, and you are off the hook for any expenses.

124Y · 03-18-2009, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRS

If any of my friends drove/is driving without a license, it wouldn't be hard at all for me to call him/her out.

I'd simply say that he/she is a @#$%ing idiot and ICBC will bum rape them for all their worth and all their children's worth if they get into an accident. Not to mention if caught by police.

Yeah...I know how serious this matter is. I am more than willing to persuade him not to drive anymore until he gets his BC driver's license. I'm just not sure if I should go to ICBC right now and rat my friend out...

zulutango · 03-18-2009, 08:45 AM

Ask yourself, would you do to him, what he is doing to you? Do you really think he was completely unaware that what he was doing, was wrong. With friends like him, you don't need enemies.