SOMEONE FINALLY POINTED THIS OUT!

this is all just political bullshit. every country in that region lays claim to those waters because it puts them in a weak position if they dont do so. its like copyright and trademark protection...if you dont use it, you lose it. i doubt china realistically expects control over those islands.

oh I see what you mean now..... then yeah bleh it makes sense. Go China!

fetched has a point there dna. I am not even from China and I am not defending it, but your Asian knowledge is really lacking for you to be posting here. If you look at Tibet history it was a far wrose place when it was under its British colony status, slavery abound, absurd living standard. Now Tibet is much different.

And for those who talk about freedom of speech..this is off topic but I have lived in China for an extended period of time I can say they get as much freedom of speech as we do here, even more..here you are not allowed to public anything racist but in China you can do that freely. In China you are not allowed to publish or organise a social disorder, but here you can. I think its not that they don't have freedom of speech, it is the definition of "freedom" that is different, and don't force your values onto others, thats just like the Americans.

freaking stupid, another 10-20 years, and they all will be under water.
wish china was putting as much effort into fighting pollution...

DDauge you should replace your Taiwan flag for a China flag.... i think half if not more of Revscene have lived in China (or so it seems) and they would support China only if they feel they have something to gain or.. have been on heroin so the views are so delusional, but having said that there are people who are blind to their surroundings everywhere and it's no surprise that you are one of them (if you are being genuine in your views)




you see we can all make accusations without giving any substance to it... so please quit speaking down to dna because he doesn't think China is shangri-la

I think you are the one being delusional and fooled by the media..The fact that I am stating my views about China doesn't mean that I think China is shangri-la, China definitely has its short comings, I am not glorifying it or anything, it's just the fact that when people have absolutely no idea what they are talking about and its apparent that they know nothing about China try to pretend they know it all that makes me feel compelled to write some facts... to believe it or not is your decision.

oh here we go again. I never said tibet was a happy utopian, perfect, or even near perfect society before the chinese annexed them. I'm saying, and read carefully here.

If the Tibetans wanted to be part of China they should have a VOICE IN THEIR OWN FUCKIN DESTINY. They should be allowed to decide for themselves if they want to be part of China or become some backwater shithole country.

The justification for annexing Tibet to 'free' them from serfdom is ludicrous because you've replaced one shitty government with another shitty one. The real sad thing is that the Chinese government has convinced their own people that for the sake of a little money, sacrificing all your basic human rights is worth it.

p.s i'm not even going to list my 'credentials' for having an opinion about China, i'm a human being and I don't have to tell you how 'chinese' I am to form an opinion about China.

do you know what real tibetans want? or do you just know what the leading monks tell the media, gobbled up and sensationalized by western journalists eager to point the finger at the big bad communists?

have you ever talked to any commoner from tibet?

i think its pretty ironic that you're talking about letting them choose their own destiny when the reality is that the monks will decide everything. theres only two options here: a shitty government, or an even worse one.

also, china will never let tibet gain independence. its not about human rights or even pride, but national security. so lets stop beating this dead horse in every china thread.

honestly those of you that use tibet as an arguing point against china, do you really give a fuck about tibet? or it's just a easy way to jab china?

no one really gives a fuck about tibet for the sake of tibet, so stop using that in an argument please.

ok... people who say china should give tibet independence doesn't understand the issue...

on top of that.. that issue is so debatable that it'll never ever EVER be settled in the next 70 years...

i would give my point of view but you guys would just start flaming and telling me i'm a sensationalist or whatever you guys wanna call me... i'm not from China... i've been keeping up with what's going on there and also the history behind it.. i don't know all the facts.. and i have talked to people from tibet.. i've never been to the place...

and ihave an opinion.. so what.. the original post here isn't even about tibet.. it's about these islands...

if you want to criticize the gov't.. go ahead... but don't drag tibet or anything that's not part of the issue into this...

it's almost like we need a TIBET VS CHINA thread in fight club or something

Tibet will gain its independence the day Quebec is seperated from Canada.
Quebec wants to be seperated from Canada for pretty much the same reason Tibet wants to seperate from China (different culture). human right and all that bs is just an excuse to gain western media's attention.

Tibet will be a far more shittier place if it wasn't for the Chinese government..I doubt you have any idea what you are talking about.

Almost all the infrastructures in Tibet now, including power plant, cellphone towers, sewage, rail roads and highways, schools and library are built by the Chinese government..without China Tibet is simply a wasteland.

same tired arguement.The real sad thing is that the Chinese government has convinced their own people that for the sake of a little money, sacrificing all your basic human rights is worth it.
WTF are you talking about? holy shit, Quebec got the referendum, we gave them a choice, they choose to stay. How can you even compare the situation?
by the way, you never answered my question. you like to avoid the difficult points don't you? here's a simpler format.

if you were dating this chick
and you guys broke up for a while. she's thinking 'things aren't working out for me, I need some time alone to think about where this relationship is going'. and your like 'WTF! I bought you all these pricey bags and rings and shit, now you just gonna leave me?'

so now your all pissed off at your girlfriend, would it be okay to threaten her with violence if she really broke up with you?

just answer the question.

LOL!11

If Tibet will gain independence...we probably won't see it until China changes its complete gov't structure...and that probably wont be until we're in our 50's

Wait.. something's wrong with this statement, I wonder if you can spot it.

oh i didn't drag this off topic, someone else did, i'm just defending my points, like *all* valid discussions should do. I don't like to rely on vague dismissive statements to prove points.

yes i'm sure you talked to *all* the people in Tibet. I'm sure just because you know a couple of dudes from Tibet makes YOU the leading authority on what Tibetans want. Same way I know a couple of guys from Australia which leads me to believe all Australians are perverted bastards. -just think about why this statement is wrong-

another typical response. lets tear into this...
first off, deflecting the blame to western media because it portrays China for what it really is, doesn't really help your cause because, well, you haven't answered the actual allegations. You are like a child getting scolded by his parents and replying in either 'Why do you always pick on me?' or 'Well he started it!'. Blaming the 'Big Bad Media' only takes you so far until you realize, everybody deals with it, China is no exception. For every bad story about China I can find 3 bad stories on the US, and atleast they aren't as whiny as the Chinese.

No, I haven't talked to a Tibetan, nor do i care to. Because it's irrelevant. What is relevant, is the fact that all people deserve the ability to choose who rules over them. the prime word is choice.

Issue of national security, LOL LOL LOL. Yeah, i'm sure those terrorist tibetans needed to be invaded by China in the 1950's because they were launching seperatist attacks on China from there! Scores dead! hundreds kidnapped! Oh the humanity!

There is a third option, Tibetans can vote for a *gasp" parliamentary democracy like most of the civilized world. But hey, the choice is theirs, not yours to make. If they want to go back to a style of Serfdom, so be it. as long as it's their choice not yours.

Why do I even talk to you about human rights when it becomes more obvious that you know nothing about your own rights in Canada. Here's a free lesson. You are allowed to be publically racist in Canada, as long as you do not incite violence against them. Free speech, obviously, wasted on you.

But notice how I didn't input my opinion and also didn't try to show i'm the "leading authority" on what Tibetans want (I don't really get where you got that from my post but maybe it's my bad). And I also clearly didn't justify what I thought of the issue. I always hated getting into this Tibet argument and my post wasn't actually directed to anyone specific or you for that matter, I guess I was just trying to say stay on topic. It's more about the islands than Tibet haha. However, Tibet is definitely not a shit place. I don't think any of us on RS here are qualified to give inputs and judgments on Tibet that's all.

The best form of general rule is the ability for the mass to choose it's own destiny. The people of a nation should be able to freely elect their leadership and shape it's future.

Its the natural result of the highest form of political evolution.

I think there is a fundamental difference between Eastern and Western philosophy of freedom and human rights.

In the West, people believe that man are born with human rights and freedom of choice, regardless whether this man is a low life scum or a saint.

In the East (or Sinic philosophy so to speak), human right is not a right..its a privilege. You have to prove your worth before you are given the freedom and the privileges.Namely, if you behave like an animal/low life, you are treated like an animal..thus you deserve no human "rights". On the other hand, if you behave like a saint, then you are really treated like a saint and honoured.

I can see the merits and short comings of both philosophies, but while China does not force its values on us, let's not judge China with our values, we are better of just minding our own business.

Eastern philosophy?

W.

T.

F.

Japan doesn't hold this train of thought about human rights. Nor does India, or the Phillipines, or South Korea.

So, at what point of sainthood is one allowed to criticize the government or form a political party?

your just gonna keep on ignoring and deflecting my arguements aren't you?
oddly reminiscent of certain shit countries.

i'm more concerned why the tool has a taiwan flag for an avatar

DNA don't bother, it's already been discussed in another thread

to quote my self, in reference to ddguage.

"you're a fucking moron"

another typical response. lets tear into this...
first off, deflecting the blame to western media because it portrays China for what it really is

:haha:


everybody deals with it, China is no exception. For every bad story about China I can find 3 bad stories on the US, and atleast they aren't as whiny as the Chinese.

I bet they would be if they were told how they should govern their own country day in day out by China

Issue of national security, LOL LOL LOL. Yeah, i'm sure those terrorist tibetans needed to be invaded by China in the 1950's because they were launching seperatist attacks on China from there! Scores dead! hundreds kidnapped! Oh the humanity!

No.... national security in the sense of having the US all up in your grill if China were to give up Tibet to a ruling class of monks


There is a third option, Tibetans can vote for a *gasp" parliamentary democracy like most of the civilized world. But hey, the choice is theirs, not yours to make. If they want to go back to a style of Serfdom, so be it. as long as it's their choice not yours.

chances are tibet will just revert back to a style of serfdom under the cloak of a fixed democracy while the western world is celebrating in joy of how tibet has finally been democratized and liberated from the great evils of china

If democratic styles of governments can run efficiently in NA... they obviously should be able to in every other part of the world right? countries not under democratic rule are obviously trying to strip their citizens of all their rights and freedoms. as the leaders of tomorrow, it is our responsibility to ensure evil communist regimes such as china that run under a 3rd world maoist type of mentality comparable to nazi germany seize to exist

that's essential what happens when the ROC gov't allows Chinese businessmen to slowly take over Taiwan + buying taiwan stocks :lol