Question about stop sign right of way + flashing red lights
 

I have a few questions, hope you guys can help me out :thumbsup:

1) Car A and Car B are both on a residential street. THey are both stopped at a stop sign. Car A wants to make a left, Car B wants to go straight through (they are facing each other). However, they can't proceed because the cross street is a busy street (say Renfrew). Who has the right of way?
If Car A arrives first, is Car A allowed to turn left onto Renfrew BEFORE Car B can proceed straight through?

that's the tricky thing bout the stop signs that I hate. Given Car A came first, does Car A have to be "in the intersection" to qualify for right of way (ie. Car B should wait because Car A is already in the intersection -- in the middle of the turn).

IF there was an accident though, you can't really prove you were there first without witnesses, so would you guys say the left turner should play it safe?


2) Same scenario as above, but the cross street is now First Ave (near Rupert area), instead of Renfrew. Now you guys know 1st ave has those big islands in the middle, where you first move to the middle when it's safe, and then cross to the other side (so you cut across traffic from 1 direction at a time).

So if Car A wants to turn left from the side street, it waits for traffic (from the left to clear), then drives up to the middle where it has to wait for traffic from the right to clear before making the left turn. Now if Car B arrives while car A is in the middle, does this still give Car A the right of way? In other words, does being in the middle resting spot technically make car A "in the middle of the intersection or mid turn" and so Car B must wait?

3) I've always read that a flashing red traffic light is equivalent to a stop sign.
However, I learned from my family that it was a four way stop.
In my experience, whenever I encountered a flashing red at an intersection, it was ALWAYS a four-way stop?
So when is it ever just a stop sign?

I believe the car going straight in both of your above examples would have the right-of-way. In both examples, the turning car would be cutting across the straight car's line of travel, and you'll only allowed to do that when it's safe to do so; if the other car is going straight, then it's not safe to turn.

In the third example, it depends on the intersection. Yes, a flashing red is equivalent to a stop sign... it's only a four-way stop if you have flashing red in all four directions though.

Thanks

The reason I'm asking is because IIRC, according to the roadsense book, the person going straight through must yield, if the left turner is already in the intersection (as opposed to behind the stop line).

I was hoping to get one of the police members here to answer based on the eyes of the law. I also appreciate your post of course. I agree with you that seemed like the most intuitive thing to do (left turner waiting for the through person). Just that many times in the First Ave middle island scenario, the left turner usually goes first or so I've seen. Same with on Boundary with those big islands. I'm definitely curious how it is viewed under the eyes of the law.

Kinda sucks if this is the case, ie. it's only fair that the left turner goes first if he's past the stop line already and waiting. However, in an accident the left turner would probably be assigned fault unless there are accurate witnesses. So the rule becomes useless if it were true.

As for the flashing light. You're right! No wonder. I guess every single time I've seen one, it was flashing on all sides. I don't think I've ever seen one where it was just one side flashing red. At least not in Vancouver.

Well, I don't know how the law defines a street with a boulevard, like E. 1st there, but I'd tend to look at it as two separate one-way streets - the car who gets across into the divider area has crossed one intersection and is now looking at a second intersection, where the standard rules apply again.

But yeah, would be interesting to hear the resident cops' perspectives on it.

I'd play it safe and let the fellow going straight take the right of way. No sense of being in the right if you could have avoided the accident in the first place.

at a 2 way stop like that, the person who enters first (which is normaly the person who stops first) has the right of way...