Don't Become a Scientist!

[LiquidTurbo]

From:

http://wuphys.wustl.edu/~katz/scientist.html

Don't Become a Scientist!

Jonathan I. Katz

Professor of Physics

Washington University, St. Louis, Mo.

[my last name]@wuphys.wustl.edu

Are you thinking of becoming a scientist? Do you want to uncover the mysteries of nature, perform experiments or carry out calculations to learn how the world works? Forget it!

Science is fun and exciting. The thrill of discovery is unique. If you are smart, ambitious and hard working you should major in science as an undergraduate. But that is as far as you should take it. After graduation, you will have to deal with the real world. That means that you should not even consider going to graduate school in science. Do something else instead: medical school, law school, computers or engineering, or something else which appeals to you.

Why am I (a tenured professor of physics) trying to discourage you from following a career path which was successful for me? Because times have changed (I received my Ph.D. in 1973, and tenure in 1976). American science no longer offers a reasonable career path. If you go to graduate school in science it is in the expectation of spending your working life doing scientific research, using your ingenuity and curiosity to solve important and interesting problems. You will almost certainly be disappointed, probably when it is too late to choose another career.

American universities train roughly twice as many Ph.D.s as there are jobs for them. When something, or someone, is a glut on the market, the price drops. In the case of Ph.D. scientists, the reduction in price takes the form of many years spent in ``holding pattern'' postdoctoral jobs. Permanent jobs don't pay much less than they used to, but instead of obtaining a real job two years after the Ph.D. (as was typical 25 years ago) most young scientists spend five, ten, or more years as postdocs. They have no prospect of permanent employment and often must obtain a new postdoctoral position and move every two years. For many more details consult the Young Scientists' Network or read the account in the May, 2001 issue of the Washington Monthly.

As examples, consider two of the leading candidates for a recent Assistant Professorship in my department. One was 37, ten years out of graduate school (he didn't get the job). The leading candidate, whom everyone thinks is brilliant, was 35, seven years out of graduate school. Only then was he offered his first permanent job (that's not tenure, just the possibility of it six years later, and a step off the treadmill of looking for a new job every two years). The latest example is a 39 year old candidate for another Assistant Professorship; he has published 35 papers. In contrast, a doctor typically enters private practice at 29, a lawyer at 25 and makes partner at 31, and a computer scientist with a Ph.D. has a very good job at 27 (computer science and engineering are the few fields in which industrial demand makes it sensible to get a Ph.D.). Anyone with the intelligence, ambition and willingness to work hard to succeed in science can also succeed in any of these other professions.

Typical postdoctoral salaries begin at $27,000 annually in the biological sciences and about $35,000 in the physical sciences (graduate student stipends are less than half these figures). Can you support a family on that income? It suffices for a young couple in a small apartment, though I know of one physicist whose wife left him because she was tired of repeatedly moving with little prospect of settling down. When you are in your thirties you will need more: a house in a good school district and all the other necessities of ordinary middle class life. Science is a profession, not a religious vocation, and does not justify an oath of poverty or celibacy.

Of course, you don't go into science to get rich. So you choose not to go to medical or law school, even though a doctor or lawyer typically earns two to three times as much as a scientist (one lucky enough to have a good senior-level job). I made that choice too. I became a scientist in order to have the freedom to work on problems which interest me. But you probably won't get that freedom. As a postdoc you will work on someone else's ideas, and may be treated as a technician rather than as an independent collaborator. Eventually, you will probably be squeezed out of science entirely. You can get a fine job as a computer programmer, but why not do this at 22, rather than putting up with a decade of misery in the scientific job market first? The longer you spend in science the harder you will find it to leave, and the less attractive you will be to prospective employers in other fields.

Perhaps you are so talented that you can beat the postdoc trap; some university (there are hardly any industrial jobs in the physical sciences) will be so impressed with you that you will be hired into a tenure track position two years out of graduate school. Maybe. But the general cheapening of scientific labor means that even the most talented stay on the postdoctoral treadmill for a very long time; consider the job candidates described above. And many who appear to be very talented, with grades and recommendations to match, later find that the competition of research is more difficult, or at least different, and that they must struggle with the rest.

Suppose you do eventually obtain a permanent job, perhaps a tenured professorship. The struggle for a job is now replaced by a struggle for grant support, and again there is a glut of scientists. Now you spend your time writing proposals rather than doing research. Worse, because your proposals are judged by your competitors you cannot follow your curiosity, but must spend your effort and talents on anticipating and deflecting criticism rather than on solving the important scientific problems. They're not the same thing: you cannot put your past successes in a proposal, because they are finished work, and your new ideas, however original and clever, are still unproven. It is proverbial that original ideas are the kiss of death for a proposal; because they have not yet been proved to work (after all, that is what you are proposing to do) they can be, and will be, rated poorly. Having achieved the promised land, you find that it is not what you wanted after all.

What can be done? The first thing for any young person (which means anyone who does not have a permanent job in science) to do is to pursue another career. This will spare you the misery of disappointed expectations. Young Americans have generally woken up to the bad prospects and absence of a reasonable middle class career path in science and are deserting it. If you haven't yet, then join them. Leave graduate school to people from India and China, for whom the prospects at home are even worse. I have known more people whose lives have been ruined by getting a Ph.D. in physics than by drugs.

If you are in a position of leadership in science then you should try to persuade the funding agencies to train fewer Ph.D.s. The glut of scientists is entirely the consequence of funding policies (almost all graduate education is paid for by federal grants). The funding agencies are bemoaning the scarcity of young people interested in science when they themselves caused this scarcity by destroying science as a career. They could reverse this situation by matching the number trained to the demand, but they refuse to do so, or even to discuss the problem seriously (for many years the NSF propagated a dishonest prediction of a coming shortage of scientists, and most funding agencies still act as if this were true). The result is that the best young people, who should go into science, sensibly refuse to do so, and the graduate schools are filled with weak American students and with foreigners lured by the American student visa.

Some good advice in here. Too any parents pushing "science science science", without thinking of real life applicability. Thoughts on article?

[iceburner]

as a scientist, everything in the article is pretty much common knowledge.

You go into science if you want to help cure cancer and you love it.

If you want to make money, get a medical PhD.

[twitchyzero]

i only read half way through
but yeah common sense

[CRS]

Originally Posted by iceburner

as a scientist, everything in the article is pretty much common knowledge.

You go into science if you want to help cure cancer and you love it.

If you want to make money, get a medical PhD.

Ugh, do you mean a M.D.? As in a Medical Degree? As in what doctors have? As in what is equivalent to a bachelor degree?

[Levitron]

An interesting note: that guy was recently appointed as one of the "special task" team members assigned to figure out how to contain the oil spill disaster.

[twitchyzero]

Originally Posted by CRS

Ugh, do you mean a M.D.? As in a Medical Degree? As in what doctors have? As in what is equivalent to a bachelor degree?

MD isn't considered bachelors, but it always puzzled me why they consider a doctoral degree an undergraduate study. I mean, 99% of the admitted students already have their undergraduate.

[skyxx]

Professor oak?

[CRS]

Originally Posted by twitchyzero

MD isn't considered bachelors, but it always puzzled me why they consider a doctoral degree an undergraduate study. I mean, 99% of the admitted students already have their undergraduate.

Because the faculty of medicine for most universities only require 2-3 years of undergrad studies before admission?

[misteranswer]

M.D. stands for Medicinæ Doctor aka Doctor of Medicine. It's a professional doctorate.

[bob_chan]

MD is considered "undergraduate" only in the sense that it's only the very first step of a long education. There are also MDPhDs which are much longer (7 years of medical school? Nothx). It doesn't feel like undergrad in that for each week of school it feels like I've learned about a semester's worth of knowledge.

I have tremendous respect for pure science grad students because it's a huge gamble in terms of being able to end up with a job, especially in a field you'd like to be in. You have to be extremely passionate about a subject in order to pursue nearly a decade of school before even beginning to work. As well, with the whole nature of academia, tenure track positions are becoming more scarce, meaning your years of school might not even score a position with job security. As well, Medicine and Dentistry is very cushy in comparison. Once you are matched to your residency, as long as you don't screw up big, you'll find an extremely rewarding career lined up for you right after.

[twitchyzero]

^ yeah it's just funny how they classify it as undergrad when there are quite a few applicants already with master's backgrounds

[underdawgIV]

LIQUIDTURBO DID YOU GET THIS FROM TEAMLIQUID?

I thought most of the (Asian) parents pushing their kids into science was so that their children could get cushy jobs as pharmacists/dentists/doctors? ie. a non-academic job

[q0192837465]

MD is the American system. In say UK, u can get ur "doctor" degree straight from highschool.

[tegz]

Yup the lab I work @ pays post docs about 45~50k/yr salary, right above a tax bracket LOL.

But a masters student gets permanent position and makes about the same...

What's the point of a PhD these days lol.

[twitchyzero]

it's not all about pay grade i guess
some people want to pursue more deeply into their research areas
others are tired of lower levels of respect just because there's no Dr. in their title.

but i agree, if the pay is similar there's no point in wasting another good 4-5 years of your life prying your eyes out on the books

[tegz]

Originally Posted by twitchyzero

it's not all about pay grade i guess
some people want to pursue more deeply into their research areas
others are tired of lower levels of respect just because there's no Dr. in their title.

but i agree, if the pay is similar there's no point in wasting another good 4-5 years of your life prying your eyes out on the books

That is true, I think the people who research stay in it for the passion, or the opportunity to have their names on a textbook 50 years from now on.

I'm currently working in a lab that researches new methods of more effective drug deliveries to cure cancer atm, and when I started I thought I would be making exciting discoveries on a daily basis. Of course sooner than later I've realized research to be a terribly tedious process, and am thinking that medicine is a better career path for me so I'm applying to med in about 2 years after working a bit more to pay off some loans lol.

[Jermyzy]

Having said that, I've heard that some of my profs in the pharmaceutical sciences department are making big bucks from spinoff companies

[LiquidTurbo]

Originally Posted by underdawgIV

LIQUIDTURBO DID YOU GET THIS FROM TEAMLIQUID?

I thought most of the (Asian) parents pushing their kids into science was so that their children could get cushy jobs as pharmacists/dentists/doctors? ie. a non-academic job

Hahah yea, TL is awesome.

[ajei]

good points... do science if you like it, but is "liking something" enough, when you're paying off your loans; and your old hs classmates who chose to work straight off or do a two year diploma are making more than you (and have been all the while you were in school)??
and i hate how (in comparison with most other countries of the world) youre, 99% of the time required to have a degree(usu. science) to enter medical/dental/law. aside from going into med/dent because i like it, i went in for the money; and sitting around in north american uni doing courses i felt were unrelated/non-helping in getting me there killed my motivation and undergrad grades. The only good thing differing this is that most outside med/dental schools are 5-6 yrs (where as north america is 4 [sometimes 3 for dental in USA]); however that extra year internationally is usually basic courses like histo and basic anatomy...so i doesn't make too much difference. (but ones mindset is much more secure and confident once ur IN the med/dent system.)

[twitchyzero]

those going to med/law/dent have to at least be motivated if not passionate for their profession or it's just going to be a huge drag if you're in it soley for the $$