^
if this pimp ass only for sale $33g, $15g for 03 330 is nth

http://www.revscene.net/forums/fs-20...e-t611931.html

consider new is well over $110g

Flagship euro tends to depreciate like crazy due to stupid carzy maintenance cost.

Hhaha, i guess the post reminds me that it's time for me to do an alignment as well.

Can't DIY in a BMW, or are the parts very expensive?

Wow @ the 7 series. Really, makes no sense to buy something like that brand new!

certain things u really gotta go back to dealership, tats where they get u. Charging u $140-150 an hour for labour, plus the stupid procedure they go thru, each department specialize this, specialize that.

One of my buddy with a E46 328 took it in for repair, bad battery, alternator...walk out with a $5000 dollar repair bill. No joke

diagnose this, diagnose that..


parts and labor are both extremely...pricey


changing a serpentine belt on my car takes like 15 minutes, changing a belt on a e46 m3 the whole front end needs to come off, takes 2-3 hours

not just euros, any high end cars depreciate like crazy


used RL is around $25g


used 06ish GS300/430 is around $30g +


consider brand new, you gotta prepare $70-80 g+ for those cars

Camber can ruin tires just as bad as toe. The pictures he provided show wear from camber, not toe, plain & simple.

^ cannot tell. European cars have massive camber in the rear without having adverse effect on the tires. If the toe is mild camber is not a huge issue.

Are you always a condescending prick, or are you just having a particularly bad day? When I posted this I knew I'd get some people berating me for being an idiot... and that's fine. I'll readily admit I was stupid not to have an alignment done earlier. That being said, I don't see the need for personal attacks. Everyone makes mistakes, and I'm admitting to one... so take a Xanax and fucking relax.

Also, how does me owning a BMW have any relevance to this thread? I could drive a Kia, for all it matters, and still have exactly the same problem. Do you know how many ricers are cruising around with a 3" drop that haven't even considered getting an alignment? Do you know how many people have never even heard of an alignment, let alone had one performed on their vehicle?

I was ignorant and stupid for not performing an alignment, yes, but I do have a much better understanding of my car (and autos in general) than the average person. When I bought my car, I wanted to learn how to keep it in good shape, so I spent a ton of time reading and learning about e46's. I have 1500 posts on the e46fanatics.com forums, most of which were technical discussions/questions I took part in when I first bought the car. I'm hardly an expert but for the most part (alignment idiocy aside) I have a decent amount of knowledge relating to my vehicle. Point being: it's not a general lack of willingness to learn about my car, I just made a mistake not reading more about alignments and how crucial they are after installing suspension mods.

This issue has absolutely nothing to do with money, either, so you don't need to attack me for being "cheap". I've spent well over $7k on optional preventative maintenance over the past year (not including the $1200 I dropped for new tires this afternoon). I could've spent half that - or less - but I'm not one to cheap out when it comes to my car. If I'd known the alignment was so crucial, I would've happily forked over the money a long time ago.

All that aside... You don't know anything about me or my financial situation, so you're certainly not in a position to criticize me for owning a car that's costly to maintain. Worry about your own bank account and I'll worry about mine. If you want to rant about BMW's and cost of ownership or discuss your own German car penis envy, make your own thread.

Lastly, to clarify one thing, since you seem unwilling to read my previous posts: I perform regular maintenance on my car, including routine checks of tire pressure, tread life, oil level, coolant level, etc. I have also been driving long enough that I can normally tell when there is something wrong with a car, which is why this alignment problem was so shocking to me: there were no signs of poor performance, no unusual noises/rattles/shuddering, and the car ran straight and true. The inner tire wear is only visible when the wheel is cranked 100% to the left. My point, therefore, is that you'd have to really know what you're looking for or be working under the car in order to notice this problem. (And even then, the mechanics who did my last 2 oil changes didn't mention anything, and they were actually under the car poking around.)

Congratulations... you finally understand the purpose of this thread. I didn't know the importance of getting an alignment done, and now I do. I'm admitting my mistake and sharing my learning experience with others.

Lots of people DIY e46 BMW's. I'm told they're actually really easy to work on if you're somewhat mechanically inclined. Many enthusiasts buy parts online and do their own work. If you do this, an e46 isn't much more expensive than most cars to maintain, especially when you consider the price tag when new.

That said I'm not much of a DIY'er and I don't mind paying someone else to do my work for me. I avoid the dealership like the plague and get all my stuff done at a local independent BMW specialist. By doing a bit of research ahead of time and ordering crucial parts online you can usually get maintenance done for half of what it would cost at a dealership.

The real issue is just general reliability. The e46 is pretty good as far as late-model German cars go, but it has some finicky problems that can be costly to fix (ie. window regulators, transmission issues). Any car with similar reliability concerns will be equally pricey to maintain. That's what makes Honda/Toyota so desirable as used vehicles, imo... high reliability and build quality means things are less likely to break. For example, if you buy a used 2002 Chrysler (1/3 the cost of an '02 330ci) you'll probably pay just as much to keep it in good condition.

Holy crap that's crazy wear!

Same thing happened to my buddy this month, he swapped out his front lower control arms (10mm wider than stock) and "aligned" his front tires by having the wheels off on a lift, lining up with a tread pattern on the rear wheel. After only 1000 km of highway driving he lost about 40% of his front tire tread..lol. I had a look and the fronts were toe in a good degree or two. I lol'd, he didn't.

Usually you can just eyeball the toe with the front and rear tires, you won't get proper thrust, but you won't destroy the tires......as quick. I really need to get to Dale's myself.

blah blah blah blah blah. sure talk a lot for someone who's ignorant. Battle of semantics eh? I enjoy these.

1) Someone who hasn't heard of dental floss is NOT ignorant, they're lazy to go learn how to take care of their teeth. (and probably have bad breath from the chicken bits stuck in their teeth)

2) had you known had you known blah blah blah... sounds like you're one of those guys who goes "had i known there was a cop around that corner, i'd not have sped". no need to argue this one.

3) you don't for one minute think a tire blow out is negligence of the highest degree? you mean if your tire blows out and you're doing 100km/h+ you won't hit like 500 other cars? damn! must be superman there. No wait, he flies.

4) So you do regular maintenance? tire press and all eh? I'm surprised you learned all that, and didn't know about camber/toe wear. I do all my regular maintenance, and if it's something I can't handle, I bring it to my friends who do. No shame in that, but apparently it was overlooked because rubber won't possibly wear down!

5) You're trying to shift the blame once again to someone else, two oil changes. Whoopdeedoo. Everyone knows that an oil change is a pretty simple, quick job, and I think you shitting out of your ass here, because if you have time to do the rest of the checks on your shiny valve stems and all. Then you have time to do your own oil changes. BTW, i'm overjoyed for your "mechanics". They know someone with too much money on his hands and decided to rip him off :)

6) you're on RS for as long as i've had THIS account, and you don't know you'll get flak for doing something wrong? Welcome to the internet. Can I get you some Goatse?

Now don't get me wrong. I think you tried to formulate a pretty good defense there. But if you were just being lazy about the whole matter, then own up to it. Because I don't for one second believe you would even know about the issue (which you would have with all your checks), and you took that picture to SHOW OFF TO YOUR FRIENDS HOW HARDCORE YOU ARE

oh and... 'nuff said

your buddy's retarded if he thinks his "eyes" are better than laser alignment LOL

but a good chuckle none the less

you're right about one thing, my k-series bretheren is a dick :P (just kiddin')

in those 6 paragraphs
COLES NOTES:
- I KNOW LOTS ABOUT CARS GUYTH... MORE THAN MEETS THE EYES

Of course you can have camber and have even tire wear. The point I'm making is that camber can just as easily ruin tires as toe if it's out. And his pictures show camber wear.

There are so many factors that dictate how your tires will wear with different alignment settings. You cannot say that because car A has lots of camber that you can also have lots of camber on car B and your tires will wear OK.

You can take 10 different cars and look at their alignment settings. Some will have no camber at all, some will have slight negative camber, some will have lots of negative camber and some might even have positive camber. Some cars even have different camber for the left & right front tires. And yet these cars will all have even tire wear.

How can this be? It's because of the specifics of the vehicle and suspension and how they interact. What works on one car will not necessarily work on another car. If you take a car with zero camber and give it significant negative camber, you're going to get camber wear. You can compensate by adjusting the toe, but this can only go so far. If you set toe enough to completely counteract the camber wear, then you will need a lot of toe-in. And toe-in is going to make for a very boring car handling-wise.

And there's the catch: people think negative camber makes for a better handling car (it can, but it's not as simple as crank the camber/improve handling), but the extra toe-in needed to save your tires will hinder your performance. So you don't really gain anything.

on that last paragraph, play big or go home... aggressive toe for me + mad tyte JDM camber XD

It's not a battle of semantics at all. Laziness and ignorance are two separate concepts, and they're definitely not interchangeable.

To continue with my above example: Laziness is knowing that you need to floss daily, but choosing not to because it requires a certain degree of effort. Ignorance, on the other hand, is not knowing that dental floss exists or that it can be beneficial.

In my case, the problem is clearly ignorance. I am not lazy when it comes to auto maintenance. If I were lazy, why would I spend thousands of dollars on preventative maintenance? Why would I spend hours reading message boards and learning about proper car care?

It's not laziness that caused me to postpone an alignment. It's the misconception I had about alignments (that they're only needed if you feel or see a problem) that led to this tire wear issue. That's ignorance, plain and simple, and it's arguably just as "bad" as laziness in many ways.

Normally I wouldn't bother even responding to a post such as yours, but I object to being called "lazy". It's a blanket statement that infers I'm unwilling to maintain my car, when that's just blatantly untrue. I made a mistake - an error in judgement, if you will - and premature tire wear was the result.

(The fundamental difference, by the way, is that laziness is a fundamental character flaw. A lazy person is just that... lazy. Ignorance about a certain topic, on the other hand, is easily rectifiable. It's a mistake in judgement that will not be repeated.)

Err... what? Your example is not even remotely related to my argument. Obviously if I had known an alignment was needed I would have had it performed way earlier... just like everyone else.

Perhaps you failed to notice that I'm not trying to defend my intelligence here. I'm fully willing to admit that I was ignorant and stupid for not getting an alignment performed. The only thing I object to is the accusation of laziness.

Note that I said "grossly negligent". Yes, allowing your tire tread to wear down to dangerously low levels is negligent, no question. Is this thread not an admission of that?

I was arguing that I'm not grossly negligent because the tire wear was difficult to spot. It was hidden on the inside edge of the tire, invisible to visual inspection unless the wheel was turned fully to the left. The low fender lining and wide tire width make it nearly impossible to reach the inside side of the tire without lying on the ground. How many people lie on the ground to check their inner tire wear?

Anyway, I don't want to argue semantics, as you suggested. I'm just pointing out that my error was one that would be made by most people that don't perform mechanical work on their cars (aka 80%+ of the general population). Such a common error can't be considered "grossly negligent".

In my eyes, "gross negligence" would be akin to someone lighting a cigarette in a gas station. Nearly everyone with half a brain knows the result, so it's a grossly negligent action. Not everyone knows that failure to perform an alignment can cause extreme tire wear with no obvious symptoms.

That's wonderful that you do all of your own maintenance. I'm sure that works out well for you. I don't have the time, patience, knowledge, or desire to perform most of my own routine maintenance. I entrust this to a person who is trained and knows way more than I do. Most people do the same thing, so I'm not sure what you're attempting to scold me for here.

All I said was that:

a) I perform a routine maintenance check, which includes tire tread and tire pressure, among other things; and

b) I try to learn about my car whenever possible so that I can make informed maintenance decisions.

Not sure how you can fault me for either of those. Granted, I wasn't aware of the severe camber/toe problems that could result from a minor change in ride height or dampening. I have learned that now, at a cost of two new tires. Many people learn things via trial & error, although the consequences are usually not as severe as they were in my case.

I'm trying to deflect blame on someone else? Did you read my previous post? If so, you must have read the part where I said:

- "I was ignorant and stupid for not performing an alignment... "

- "I'll readily admit I was stupid not to have an alignment done earlier."

- "Everyone makes mistakes, and I'm admitting to one..."

Where do you see me deflecting blame there?

Read the fucking post before you accuse me of deflecting blame. I'm just saying that this tread wear problem was not as blatantly obvious as you make it sound, because it wasn't just me that missed the tire wear... there were two mechanics physically under the vehicle who didn't mention it.

Also, I'm really happy to hear you perform your own oil changes. I, on the other hand, am self employed and I get paid by the hour. In the time it takes me to drive to the store, buy oil & a filter, jack up my car, and perform an oil change, I've actually lost money via opportunity cost.

The goal of reading and interacting on e46 message boards is to avoid being ripped off by mechanics and repair shops, and I highly doubt I'm a prime target. How many people drive into Mr Lube and specifically ask for "Mobil1 0w40 Synthetic, please... oh, you don't have that in stock? Do you carry any other LL-01 approved oils?"

Anyway, I'm not going to sit here and pretend I'm mechanically-inclined at all. I'm just pointing out that I purposefully avoid DIY work, and that I am more educated than your average motorist. (average meaning... minivan driver who follows the maintenance schedule in his car manual, goes back to the dealership for a $60 oil change every 3 months, etc).

Not sure what to say to this. You're either trolling and attempting to get me to waste a bunch of time responding to your post (congrats, you succeeded) or you're just lacking reading comprehension skills.

From my previous post: "When I posted this I knew I'd get some people berating me for being an idiot... and that's fine."

You want to call me stupid for not having an alignment done earlier? Go for it. It was stupid. I'm an idiot for not doing it, and I've suffered the consequences. Already admitted that plenty of times. No need to attack my personal character beyond that, though. In particular, I'll always respond to anyone who calls me lazy, spoiled, etc. Don't worry, I'm not offended... like you said, many years on RS and other similar sites tends to result in a thick skin. But I like an online argument now and then, and I'm not going to shy away from one if a person accuses me of being lazy.

You're so preoccupied with making assumptions about me you've just completely ignored everything I've said in this thread. Did it ever occur to you that my posts actually have no ulterior motive? That I'm not lazy, I just made an honest mistake and genuinely misjudged the importance of an alignment? That I'm really just trying to help others avoid similar tire wear issues?

Next time you come across a thread like this, consider giving the poster the benefit of the doubt before you decide he's an idiot. Especially when he readily admits to his mistakes and openly acknowledges his own ignorance.

i musta cost you a hella lotta money with that reply.

troll + 1

but yeah, i was just really bored... i could care less. shit stirring they call it me thinks.

Trolling victory for you.

And yes, my time on various message boards costs me at least an hour of work time every day. It sucks.

reading comprehension fail? I swear half of RS has to be a bunch of fobs

The only premium is price of parts, which if ordered online isn't that bad. Most garages can work on any car, there's nothing really special about a 3-series or my C-class.

You gotta pay to play no matter what you drive if you're going to mod it. Get over yourself.

You can DIY on any vehicle, especially the 3-series. I knew a guy in Ottawa that worked on his SL500. Some things require a few special tools, yet most is the same as any other car.

i hate mb c230 kompressor oil changes.

no dipstick - have to add oil according to computer

Well said. Every car is just like every other car when it comes down to it, if you understand the fundamentals its applied to everyother car.

theres a fair bit of misinformation in this thread and you can tell whos worked on a number of cars or worked on them for a living and those who've done it once and claim its the most difficult job ever after one car.

My car takes ~5.5L, very easy to measure and pour in. Wait 5 mins, turn on the car, check oil level, and most of the time you're good to go.

There's a diagnostic mode that gives the exact oil level. I note the level beforehand, then try to hit it after. The sensor takes a coupe mins to register new oil added, so its a bit slow, yet not hard.

Turns out you're both sort of right. hk2000 was more right, though. :D

Update: Got an alignment done today. Both camber and toe were out of wack.

Front camber was 1.1° left, 0.9° right. Still is, actually, since I don't have an adjustable camber kit. Not sure what the OEM specs are. Some people are running way more camber than that, so I'm not too worried about it. I'll keep an eye on my tire wear and if it looks brutal I'll get an adjustable camber kit.

Front toe was -0.30" left and -0.26" left (-0.56" total on the front wheels, ouch). Now it's back to factory aligned -0.07" on either side.

Rear were completely fine. Close to factory settings... 1.5° and 1.3° camber on the left/right respectively, minimal toe.

The guy at the shop who did the alignment said my inner tire wear was mostly a result of the toe issues. I'm sure the camber contributed as well.

In addition to the alignment I've now also got four new Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Plus and a $1200 void where my bank account used to be. Excellent dry grip though, adequate in the wet. Looking forward to seeing how they perform at the limit now that my toe issues are fixed.

camber wont wear out tires as fast as toe does unless u have like -5 degrees of camber.