Shifting foundation?

[Gumby]

This is the granite at the entrance of my place:


As you can see, a huge crack has developed over the past few years. House was built in 2002 and I moved in in 2005 and I'm confident it wasn't there at first. The crack extends into the granite that's in the closet to the left of this pic.

There's a wall to the right of this entrance area, and you'll notice that the floor is separating from the wall/baseboard:


Is this a clear sign of a shifting foundation? I will need to do more than just replace the granite, and it's not gonna be cheap, right?

[catalin]

Looks bad... maybe bad footings, or none at all.... most likely sinking, but i'm no expert.

[catalin]

House may have a 10 year warranty that would cover this though..it became law at one point for new homes to come with it. Good luck.

[MindBomber]

Slipping foundation would be worst case scenario and would be a massive expense if not covered by home warranty, emphasis on MASSIVE.

A more likely scenario is a sub-floor thats been improperly laid or is to thin to support natural stone tile, have you noticed problems like this forming in other parts of the home or is it completely centralized to this one area?

[BrRsn]

Stuff like that is actually pretty common. More than anything, the first pic is probably this:

The outsides of the foundations are poured first, then a couple weeks later the actual concrete for the floor of your home is poured. This usually causes an uneven surface between the foundation and the floor of your home. The tiler just want's to make everything look good, so what does he do? He puts a little more quicket/thinset underneath the tile to get it even. Over the years weight on it etc. makes it crack.

Second pic: you may not know this, but that caulking/silicone they use shrinks over time. It may be a crack, or it may just be (most likely) shrinkage.

Also, it's pretty common for a house to settle within the first 5-10 years of being made. I wouldn't worry too much about it, IMO it's purely cosmetic. On all the houses I've seen that my dad's worked in/made these cracks develop sooner or later. Most of the time they're small, sometimes major .. but purely cosmetic. Also, if your foundation was shifting, you would see a LOT of cracks all throughout the house, doors would stop shutting properly, and it would be really noticeable, the way a house is built, everything is connected to everything. So a single shift in the foundation would be apparent really fast.

The way houses are made in vancouver (modern ones anyhow) I'd say it's pretty much impossible for them to shift. The foundation is poured onto bedrock and tied together completely. If you're house is on peat/some other crappy soil they (the builder) have to pay to have thick wooden posts put down to bedrock, and the foundation rests ontop of that. I'm not too sure about richmond though.

[Gumby]

Another interesting thing to point out is the room directly above this entrance area weighs the most (based on how much stuff is in the room). I wonder if that played a major role in causing this problem.

Hopefully it's what dhillon09 describes... That's the only problem with my house at the moment - no other major cracks. I'm in Vancouver, near Oak & 67th, with radiant heating so the floors are concrete.

I'm thinking of moving to a bigger place in the near future, so the right thing to do is to get this fixed up before putting my place up for sale.

[BrRsn]

Originally Posted by Gumby

Another interesting thing to point out is the room directly above this entrance area weighs the most (based on how much stuff is in the room). I wonder if that played a major role in causing this problem.

Hopefully it's what dhillon09 describes... That's the only problem with my house at the moment - no other major cracks. I'm in Vancouver, near Oak & 67th, with radiant heating so the floors are concrete.

I'm thinking of moving to a bigger place in the near future, so the right thing to do is to get this fixed up before putting my place up for sale.

Just re-tile it. Biggest PITA is gonna be ripping up the old stuff, but it's nothing to worry about (atleast I don't think). The way most houses are made in vancouver the upper 6 inches of the foundation is exposed all the way around the house, so you could do a quick visual inspection if you're really paranoid quite quickly.

[fliptuner]

At the very least you're going to have to change the tiles out anyways. Might as well pull/chip the tiles out and find out what's going on underneath and go from there.

[MindBomber]

Originally Posted by Gumby

Another interesting thing to point out is the room directly above this entrance area weighs the most (based on how much stuff is in the room). I wonder if that played a major role in causing this problem.

Hopefully it's what dhillon09 describes... That's the only problem with my house at the moment - no other major cracks. I'm in Vancouver, near Oak & 67th, with radiant heating so the floors are concrete.

I'm thinking of moving to a bigger place in the near future, so the right thing to do is to get this fixed up before putting my place up for sale.

Are the floors structural concrete or are there joists and a sub-floor?

[Gumby]

Originally Posted by MindBomber

Are the floors structural concrete or are there joists and a sub-floor?

Ummm how can I tell?

[BrRsn]

Originally Posted by Gumby

Ummm how can I tell?

You have radiant heating and your house looks like it was made in the last 10 years, and you said you live in vancouver. Chances are the floors are structural concrete on the bottom level.

[dmm]

Seems to be some settling, normal, unless it is getting a lot worse. If you are re-tiling, are care about it, use a decoupling membrane under the tile, so any shifting under the floor would be minimized on to the tile.

http://www.schluter.com/6_1_ditra.aspx

[Prolowtone]

I agree on the house settling, or at least i would hope for your sake. less work involved. My town home is fairly new, the concrete bricks in the back yard under my door sunk about 3 feet (then again this place was built pretty cheep)

[catalin]

Originally Posted by Gumby

Ummm how can I tell?

It's probably what everyone should have asked first including myself... What's under the floor where the crack is? Basement? Crawl space??

[Gumby]

Originally Posted by catalin

It's probably what everyone should have asked first including myself... What's under the floor where the crack is? Basement? Crawl space??

No basement or crawl space... only a main floor and upper storey.

[catalin]

I'd have a couple of professionals look at it.... i wouldn't expect this to be cosmetic in any way, that tile is probably pretty thick and it's a part of the floor where a person is the only weight put on it.... it could be that the builder didn't use rebar to tie the slab into the foundation or not... we're all just speculating, either way have it checked out and look into the home warranty asap.

[catalin]

Originally Posted by dhillon09

I wouldn't worry too much about it, IMO it's purely cosmetic. On all the houses I've seen that my dad's worked in/made these cracks develop sooner or later. Most of the time they're small, sometimes major .. but purely cosmetic.

Funny you should post this dude, in the home construction world it is expected from 'certain' type of builders. But it shouldn't be expected... sure silicone cracking here and there but that's about it.... unless there's an earthquake houses shouldn't come apart like this.

[Soundy]

Originally Posted by catalin

Funny you should post this dude, in the home construction world it is expected from 'certain' type of builders. But it shouldn't be expected... sure silicone cracking here and there but that's about it.... unless there's an earthquake houses shouldn't come apart like this.

[BrRsn]

Originally Posted by catalin

Funny you should post this dude, in the home construction world it is expected from 'certain' type of builders. But it shouldn't be expected... sure silicone cracking here and there but that's about it.... unless there's an earthquake houses shouldn't come apart like this.

It shouldn't but they do.

So you want this guy to pay the bill for all these professionals to come in, probably take core samples of his concrete, etc. etc. etc. when he could just fix it himself for under $100 and get the same result?

I'd like to see what you'd do in his situation.

It could be very bad, but chances are pretty high that it's not. His foundation is on bedrock, it's not going anywhere. The cracks along the sides are where the concrete floor poured after the foundation meets the foundation, the concrete is not once piece in this area. It's very common for tilers to get lazy and just build up the mortar on the back of a tile then put it in to level out the floor rather than grinding down the difference between the two pieces of concrete. And before you get all upset again, the two slabs of concrete shouldn't have a difference in height but the finish on the top of the foundation is very rough in comparison to the finish on the floors.

If his foundation was drifting, you would see huge cracks in the exterior stucco if you've got that.

[MindBomber]

Concrete pads settling is anything but unusual, think of how often you've seen a cracked side walk or driveway. The solution to the problem is removing the current tile and re-setting it with an uncoupling membrane, the schluter products are fantastic quality. Pulling up the tile will be a nightmare, have fun.

Originally Posted by dhillon09

You have radiant heating and your house looks like it was made in the last 10 years, and you said you live in vancouver. Chances are the floors are structural concrete on the bottom level.

Even in custom homes it's far more common for floors in Vancouver to be framed with joists, not structural concrete, at least thats the case with all the builders I work with and I specialize in extremely high end homes.

[Soundy]

The fact is, we can't diagnose this over the internet with a few pictures. You really need to have a GOOD contractor come and take a look at it... at the very least to confirm the actual construction of the floor and foundation. He doesn't necessarily need to take core samples or anything extreme without at least first checking on some of the basic things that have been mentioned - whether it's a singe-pour foundation, whether the proper rebar was used, and so on.

Everything suggested is a possibility, from a shifting foundation to just lazy tile guys, but nobody can tell you that just from posting on a forum - it's something that has be inspected IN PERSON.

[catalin]

Originally Posted by Soundy

The fact is, we can't diagnose this over the internet with a few pictures. You really need to have a GOOD contractor come and take a look at it... at the very least to confirm the actual construction of the floor and foundation. He doesn't necessarily need to take core samples or anything extreme without at least first checking on some of the basic things that have been mentioned - whether it's a singe-pour foundation, whether the proper rebar was used, and so on.

Everything suggested is a possibility, from a shifting foundation to just lazy tile guys, but nobody can tell you that just from posting on a forum - it's something that has be inspected IN PERSON.

Well said..

[Soundy]

Or to put it into an RS perspective: it's like posting a picture of your crumpled fender and asking if there's any damage to the frame.

[RenoMan]

Bla bla concrete this concrete that. Gumby I ve remember you sending me PM. Last year about this. I've told you before to look under flloor and examine. Lift or cut out where the tile is and look under to see the subfloor. Could be many things as simple as not gluing and screwing you sub down can cuase crack due to movement. Your house is wood built and concrete foundation . Sometimes when you see a consttent crack in a straight line. It means something is messd up under it or could be n backframing. . You need.a person to help. You. Building inspectors, tradesmen. Your must be lazy or sometinhg cus this. Was pmd to be a year ago
Posted via RS Mobile

[RenoMan]

Your floors probably be wood subfloor and maybe a concrete layer with radiant heating .
Posted via RS Mobile