I love how Bush gets to raise the debt ceiling limit 7 times (to correct you), but no one complains. But one time from Obama and Republicans cry foul!

Bush's 2001 tax cuts for the wealthy and his corporate buddies were supposed to be "temporary" but that was 10 years ago, and the cuts didn't work.

i think you miss the point that obama was supposed to change things and take us out of debt but instead drove them deeper i to debt and now if the us fails it will be a world economic crisis worse than before.... but this could b easily avoided but greed is a powerful thing and no one thinks beyond themselves
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i hate how democrats say that obama is trying to fix bush's fuckups.
he is clearly not trying at all. if he wanted to "change" america he would completely rewrite the policies and get the lobbyists out of washington! but its kinda hard when you appoint ex-monsanto execs for the head of the USDA, goldman sachs lobbyists for treasury, and ratheon lobbyists for defence secretaries.

democrats and republicans, same shit different pile.

Pretty much. No fucking change was done.

- Bring back the regulations in the investment banking sector ? Nope. How can you when your "dream team" to save the economy that you hire are the same crooks that used to work for JP Morgman, Goldman Sachs, and lobbied for deregulation that led to the financial meltdown and subprime loans that rob the lower class of their homes.


- End guantanamo ? nope
- End the war ? Nope

Difference between him and bush. Bush didn't lie about the shit he was planning to do. It was always like, brace yourselves, I'm gonna fuck up the USA.

Obama is like Borat. I'll promote change to improve our country.. NOT!!!

This is win. Both what was quoted and the response.

LOL love it!

Obama ran on "Change we can believe in" and he's just doing more of the same Republican crap.

I understand why everyone hates the hypocritical Republicans too for raising the ceiling, now saying "no" - yet for once they are finally doing something right!

The only good thing I'll say about the US military is they tend to spend $$$ on American stuff. American soldiers and American equipment from American companies. Really its not much different than the various infrastructure spending programs that have been going on to "rebuild America" by giving $$$ to American companies to hire Americans.

The Reps may have screwed it, yet the Dems are making it worse, not better - so they are both in the wrong. At least the Reps are finally doing what they were voted in to do - no more taxes, reign in spending. Don't forget they just had an election and these Reps won on that campaign - so they are doing exactly what Americans want, the Dems are actually going against voter opinion right now.

I'm in the higher brackets of income in BC and will say that income tax is not the problem. I pay a buttload of taxes on my income, yet very little on my investments.

Most rich people make money off their investments, cause dividends, capital gains, ... all have tax advantaged schemes to pay very little. Then factor in the wealthy's ability to afford the best accountants, and they end up paying a smaller percentage of tax than I do.

A flat tax with no loopholes solves this. The tax law book for both the IRS and CRA are about a foot thick, no wonder the rich can find so many loopholes.

.

The US has the best government that money can buy.

:fullofwin:

Yes, I do agree that the health care reforms are unaffordable for the US and expenditures need to be cut. I'm not saying the Dems are the good guys here.

However, the BIGGEST CRIME to SOCIETY is what the Republicans are doing which is why I think they are the worst of the two evils.

The Dems want to raise taxes, and and by that they mean increase/raise the amount of taxes that the RICH and corporations pay. and the Democrats mostly want this done by TAX REFORMS which closes many tax loop holes that the GOP setup.

Republicans do not want this and refuse to do this. Even if obama agreed to every cut possible they still would barely bulge on this issue and wont accept anything that would but a significant dent their huge coffers.

For their campaigning. they mislead the public with, the Dems want to raise your taxes, implying that the poor will get punished with tax increases too.
This is MISLEADING since it's mostly the RICH that gets taxed, not the poor. the uninformed people do not realize that and will not support These Tax reforms.

They will also say, you can't tax your job creators. ! WTF are they talking about when no new jobs are created when company profits are higher than ever.


The Dems want to close tax loopholes and tax-credits/subsidies for the rich, but the Republicans will never let it happen.

If you ask the average poor american if they support tax increases, most will say no. But ask them if they support Tax Reforms to Increase tax only on the ultra rich and eliminate loopholes and most will say yes.

He wants to get it extended to prevent a credit rating decrease and having it affect the markets.

If the GOP agreed to tax reforms, I wouldnt have much of a problem with them at all.


Warren Buffet pays a lower rate 19% than his employees 33%.

“How can this be fair?” Buffett asked, regarding how little he pays in taxes compared to his employees. “How can this be right?”

"Warren Buffett". Forbes: 24, 42–3. November 26, 2007.

Everyone's got their Cake.
No one wants to give it up. Hence the impossible task of fix.
Bandaids are the only solution left.

Try getting American's to go with Euro style austerity measures. LOL that be epic to see what the reaction would be.

How quickly "change we believe in" becomes "elections we can bank on"

Neither side really seems interested in solving the problems. Both sides need to take the heat and piss off their base a little.

If I was in the negotiating room, I'd break it down real simple.

No one goes to a press conference without everyone. No one talks about these meetings alone in public. We do this together.

EVERYTHING is on the table. You want something treated like a sacred cow? Gonna cost you something to protect it.

Everyone gains some, and everyone loses some.

I think the Dems are being realistic. Shit...no new taxes? Ok..lets close some loopholes to build a little revenue. You can go to your people and say no new taxes, and we can go to ours and say we stuck it to richies a little.

Shit...you wanna talk cuts? OK...we'll go dollar for dollar DoD vs. Social Security.

Done.

Loopholes are fucking retarded. There is absolutely no reason to have them, except pander to the ultra-rich minority.

Better to have the super-wealthy shoulder some of the burden, than have the average American family saddled with even more debt.

If they pull out of other countries they wont be pissing off anyone else to need the bullshit "homeland hassle security" program. That would be a few trillion in itself. I think Osama really won here. How many americans is he fucking over by killing .00001% of the population?

so what are they gonna do now?

The figures I heard were that if obama took every single cent of the money and assets owned by "the rich people" he would not even come close to starting to get rid of the debit he has racked up. I alos heard that if he tanked his obamacare (don't read it just sign it " ) it would make a huge dent in getting the money he needs, but don't expect that to happen.

The USA is China's #1 buyer of goods. If the USA collapses, everyone stops buying stuff, and China will be screwed as demand for its products crashes. If this happens, the factory owners lay off workers, and the property fueled bubble in China collapses.

This also includes us in Canada -- the States are our biggest trade partners and thus many of us would be out of jobs if the companies we worked for no longer had Americans buying their products.

As an aside, the live US debt clock, with the fiscal components:

U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

totally false. This is the Right Wingers trying to mislead the public with.

Yes, the Dems made some bad decisions however the real bad guys are the Rep.

The republicans are easily portrayed as crooks because they are willing to have the poor and old die off in order to save money from the rich.

Yes the GOP will never agree to tax reform as a whole, yet I am hopeful Ron and Rand Paul will have greater influence one day and the GOP may change.

Yep, its hilarious when one of the richest men in the world remarks he pays less tax than his secretary.

So, which plan do you think they will implement? Raise the debt ceiling by 2.4 trillion, induce program cuts but no income tax overhaul? Obama's longer term deal which includes changes to Medicare, social security reform and a likely overhaul of the US income tax structure?

The latter one is better in my eyes, but the Democrats don't like cuts to social programs and the Republicans don't like any income tax increases (hell, they don't like any tax increases of any sort...it's part of their pledge).