http://www.revscene.net/forums/attac...085036_big.jpg

http://www.revscene.net/forums/642781-my-car-news.html

yes, It flips like no one.

No, I flip like no one!!!

:troll:

How about the mercedes R class??
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I always found that the Sienna offered roughly the same feature set as the Odyssey, but for a much better price point. The Odyssey is a nicer van, but I think you can save a few bucks, while not losing too much by going with the Sienna. This applies to new and used.

An Alabama built Benz?
:lol

troll off!

The Sienna is a wild looking van, and I preferred the way it looks over the Odyssey.

But.....

those pricks at the Toyota service dep't are a bunch of tools. Toyota rarely has issues, but when they do they are not going to admit it. I found that with my Tundra, and the horrible service I received at the service dep't was the reason why I went with the Honda. They are heads and tails better than Toyota when things go wrong.

Mercedes quality has gone down hill.

^ but it does have a diesel option which no other SUV/Van is offering right now.

fuel savings is pretty important when you really have no choice but to move such a big vehicle.

The 2011 Dodge Journeys look much nicer, inside and out. The pentastar V6 is good, but I wish they would mate it to a better transmission as the current 6-speed is kind of rough.

However, for the price, it's feature laden and quite roomy.

The electrical gremlins that plague that car have me shying away from it as a large people mover. I'd rather look at a Highlander Hybrid if I was looking for an alternative fuel car-based SUV.

The Sienna SE AWD is a good option, 10 years ago ill pick a SUV because of it's AWD system and mini vans are FF. Now i'll pick Sienna because AWD is there for you to choose.

edit:

^ the Sienna AWD doesn't come in the SE package. AWD only comes in the LE or the Limited Pkg.
I've looked at the Honda Odyssey and the Toyota Sienna, and I like the Honda Odyssey more than the Sienna. I'm probably going to purchase a 2012 Honda Odyssey EX-L w/ RES towards the end of the year.

ohh, Ok. I thought they do. Maybe i got it mixed up with the last Gen Sienna. Any how, I love both Sienna and Odyssey.

Chrysler is gonna have the ZF 9-speed pretty soon so lack of ratios wont be an issue for long

You get what you pay for with the domestic manufacturers. After being raped by both Dodge and GM after buying "great deals!", I won't be going American again for a long time. They are absolute shitboxes, straight up.

Right, but companies change, some for the better, some not. I'm not saying that they are perfect cars, but they are not the same cars that you and I drove a decade or even 3 years ago.

I mean, Toyota in 2011 is not the same Toyota as 1993-1996. Look at the amount of hard plastics in use in the 2011-2012 Sienna. Aside from the V6 in the current RAV4, it's pretty much obsolete compared to it's rivals. I'm definitely not saying that the big 3 are perfect now, but they've come a long way in the last few years.

So I'm supposed to give them the benefit of the doubt because they've had 3 good years? What about the garbage they sold from 1986 - 2008?

What about Ford's 1.2 million F150 recall?
Ford expands pickup recall - Business - CBC News

Or Dodge's steering failing?
Recall Alert: 242,780 Dodge Ram Pickups - PickupTrucks.com News

They've proven that Toyota's recalls were a witch hunt, and cleared them of any wrong doing.
Toyota cleared in recall scandal - Autocar.co.uk

But that opens up a whole new group of questions, first of which is simply why did the NHTSA, a subsidiary of the US Government, proclaim an act of war against Toyota around the same time the US gov't bought GM?

If GM's quality was so much better, why did they have to get the gov't watchdogs involved in a situation that didn't warrant it?


:lol

So Toyota is attempting to drop the price of their vehicles by using the same materials as their competition, and suddenly that makes them garbage?

Have you ever seen the brakes that Toyota uses? Personally, I'm glad they use cheap plastic in order to maintain the quality of braking and suspension components compared to the domestics. Have you ever see the tiny ball joints that the F150 uses? It's pathetic!


:okay:

Okay then champ.

It's easy to come a long way when you're starting with garbage. Hell, Lada had come a long way before they went bankrupt too.

:lol

None of those cars were ever discussed in this thread or relevant as competitors to the vehicles that the OP was talking about. I am aware of these ongoing recalls and the issues that Ford is dealing with SYNC and their failing transmissions in the new Mustang. As well, I never said that the Toyota recall was real, so why bring it up?


When did I say the drop in interior materials signify that Toyota is garbage? Again, if you have a personal issue with domestic vehicles, that would be great to discuss, especially if it was a SUV or minivan. I had issues with my previous domestic cars as well, but none of them are relevant to this thread.

That is true, which is why I didn't suggest a Lada. You've brought nothing useful to the thread. If you have an issue with the current Dodge Journey (the only domestic vehicle I suggested the OP should take a look at), then please shed some light.

Bitch please.

I recommended the 2011 Odyssey, a vehicle THAT I ALREADY OWN, after driving many of the current available options on the market. I then recommended against the Dodge, based on past experience, and then proceeded to post facts that state the domestics really haven't changed, other than their marketing. If you can't see this, you simply don't belong on a car enthusiast website.

Maybe there's a nice knitting forum you can go to?

dodge... my family used to own a 2003 caravan. leaks every where, i swear it needs a diaper or somthing

x5 with the 3rd roll seats can seat 7, but it is very inconvenient and cramped, and there is very little trunk space left in the back
if you seat more than 4-5 people, definitely get a minivan....
a 7 seat SUV just isn't practical (it makes you feel like you have a higher social status than driving a minivan, but I think if you have kids, that shouldn't concern you too much...)

Dodge caravan was VERY CHEAP the last time I check. You can get a basic one for 16K + fees & tax, $19K out the door. (cheaper than a honda fit...)
My parent had one for 2+ years, and they never had any problem with it... I drove it a few times and it is not that bad? (it is a minivan..what do you expect lol)
For the price, i think they are well worth it..

Yes but if you are buying brand new you can also get extended warranty so your electric gremlin become random opportunities to try out other models of Mercedes when your R class wants to take a crap.

I doubt the newest one will be as troublesome seeing that it has already been on the market for a long time and it has just undergone a facelift so all bugs should be worked out by now.

It does loook hella boss when slammed on 22s
http://www.mercedestuningmag.com/wp-...ass-wald-1.jpg
The diesel 4WD 7 seater version starts at just over 50k msrp, which is surprisingly good value for money when a Sienna is just under 50k after you spec it out to V6 AWD.

That's great, I didn't see that there. I also recommended the Oddy. I still don't know why you don't say which Dodge vehicle you owned??? I mean, I had an Omni, would my past experience in that have any relevance to this thread? Probably not.

Please point out where I said your facts aren't true. You're anger seems to have clouded your judgement and your ability to comprehend.

I would maybe lease a new MB as their rates are generally more attractive than Toyota (leasing-wise), but not buy outright as the depreciation and resale on those aren't very good compared to the Sienna. As well, that's a base R350 Blu-tec, it'll easily run you $60K+ once you add premium package 1 or 2.

In terms of style, yeah hands down the R-class looks a lot nicer. However, the Sienna has a much more comfortable ride (the R350 Blutec has a terrible ride for a luxury cruiser) and is much more practical. Save yourself some coin, get the Sienna and buy a weekend toy instead.

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/311571...hevrolet-astro

Ls1 powered rape van

AWD vans have been around for a while...unless you only buy Japanese