Highway merge speed question

[sebberry]

Originally Posted by Soundy

How about, where the lane lines meet and turn into a broken line separating the merge lane from the highway lane?

See now, that wasn't so hard, was it? Look at what you can accomplish when you apply some logic instead of always looking for something to be "wrong".

I don't think that can be it.. I've seen merge lanes where the broken line section is too short to get up to speed, match pace with a gap in traffic and merge safely. You'd have to be up to speed before the broken line to merge safely, which in your example would be illegal. Besides, these broken lines usually appear before the 80kph speed limit sign, meaning you'd still have to be doing whatever the last posted limit is.

Originally Posted by Soundy

Unfortunately, I don't plan on being on the Island any time soon, but feel free to mail me a Timmy's Card.

Sure, I have one with about 50 cents on it, you'll have to pay the postage.

[Oleophobic]

Originally Posted by Soundy

How about, where the lane lines meet and turn into a broken line separating the merge lane from the highway lane?

See now, that wasn't so hard, was it? Look at what you can accomplish when you apply some logic instead of always looking for something to be "wrong".

You're supposed to accelerate prior to where the broken line starts. The broken line is only there to allow you to change lanes to merge onto the highway. For a lot of on-ramps if you start accelerating where the broken line starts you'll run out of room.

The question is when can you *legally* start accelerating?

You make it sound so simple when in fact it really isn't, at least when you look at through the eyes of the law. Even zulu is having a tough time with this.

In reality of course everyone just starts speeding up right away.

[Simnut]

Originally Posted by sebberry

Ok, well let's have a look at the photos in my first post.

Millstream Road crosses the TCH via the overpass. The compass that I've drawn over indicates that Millstream runs North/South.

If you're heading Northbound on Millstream and intend to join the TCH East, you leave Millstream Rd. via the right bend which becomes the merge lane.

Since the last speed limit that the driver has been presented with on Millstream Rd is 50kph, at which point through the right-bend does the limit increase to 90kph? Is that entire merge lane 50kph until the driver reaches the 90kph sign where I indicated it at the red marks?

Here is a link to the interactive map in bird's eye view so you can drag it around and zoom in to see the lane markings: Bing Maps - driving directions, routes, and traffic

I believe, like Zulu says...once you've made that right hand turn into the merge lane for the TCH, you are now off Millstream and ON the TCH and can legally attain the speed limit for the highway. I have the same when taking the off ramp to Millstream bus stop, going east on the TCH. The exit speed is 60..the last speed sign I see. After doing a drop off at Millstream, I continue straight ahead to get back on the TCH and do the same at Helmiken. I believe once you hit the merge lanes to get back onto the TCH, you are allowed highway speeds. Otherwise, like you say....you cannot merge properly.

[Simnut]

Originally Posted by Jas29

Isn't the speed limit 80 on highways if not posted, and are you not considered on the highway once you are on the merge lane? That's what i always thought

Agreed.

[sebberry]

Originally Posted by Simnut

I believe, like Zulu says...once you've made that right hand turn into the merge lane for the TCH, you are now off Millstream and ON the TCH and can legally attain the speed limit for the highway.

So let's look at HWY17 at McKenzie. Two merge lanes merge together before that lane merges with the highway.

The two merge lanes come off of a road with 50kph and 60kph limits. That's right - if you were obeying the last posted limit, the two merge lanes come together at different speeds. It isn't until after the two lanes come together that you are now on the merge lane for HWY17. And the police do ticket people for doing 80kph in the merge lane.


So if we apply the Millstream/TCH logic to the McKenzie/HWY17 merge lanes, no, you can't speed up as soon as you round the bend and start driving parallel to HWY17.

This is why I am hoping that there is a LEGAL standard as to where one may begin to accelerate to HWY speed.

[zulutango]

I don't believe that it was ever intended to have you drive at 50k till the end of the merge lane and then magically warp to the Hwy speed in a couple of metres. It would create major problems for merging and would be dangerous and physically impossible for all but RS members vehicles! ( hitting NOz switch and being thrust backwards into the Recarro knock-off seat's back.)

[zulutango]

"And the police do ticket people for doing 80kph in the merge lane."


So they are ticketing people who are on the merge lane accelerating up to the posted 80kmh speed of the TCH...and there is no posted merge lane signs? I would love to be in court to hear how the Crown would prosecute that VT? At the very least there could be reasonable doubt on the part of the motorist as to the fact that he presumed that he was obeying the legal 80 k limit on the TCH after he left the lower posted 50/60 signs on Mc Kenzie Rd. From what I can remember from my travels thru that intersection, the dotted line at the end of the emerge lane is way less than 100m and this would mean drivers had only this short distance to go from 50 to 80k and merge safely into traffic behind them that was going 30 k faster than them.

Unless there is some sort of Municipal bylaw that says that this is prohibited I can't see how someone could be convicted. Have the people that you obviously know got ticketed for this, as you brought them up, told you what the Crown said in order to convict them? I am very interested to hear the rationale.

[sebberry]

In the last two photos I posted, you can see where the green and yellow lines run almost parallel to eachother and HWY17.

The green and yellow merge lanes are seperated from HWY17 by a concrete median, but are at grade with HWY17. Police have ticketed people for accelerating to 80kph in this section.

As for reasonable doubt on the part of the motorist - I thought speeding was an absolute offence, not one where there could be reasonable doubt.

Unfortunately I severed all ties I had with these lawless law-breakers, so I can't ask them what came of their tickets


Again, I'm not looking for specifics with regards to this particular merge lane, but rather simply where one can expect to be legally allowed to accelerate up to the speed of the HWY they are merging onto.

[Gumby]

Originally Posted by zulutango

(hitting NOz switch and being thrust backwards into the Recarro knock-off seat's back.)

a sign that you've been on RS for too long...

[Soundy]

Originally Posted by zulutango

Have the people that you obviously know got ticketed for this, as you brought them up, told you what the Crown said in order to convict them? I am very interested to hear the rationale.

Seb's imaginary friends.

[zulutango]

As for reasonable doubt on the part of the motorist - I thought speeding was an absolute offence, not one where there could be reasonable doubt.

It is an absolute liability offence but if the disputant can convince the JP that he honestly believed that he was in an 80/90 zone and there was no posted lower speed limit where he was driving, then I can't see how Crown could get a conviction? If a "reasonable man" could believe that the speed limit on the section of roadway where he was driving, was 80/90k, then I believe that the JP would be hard pressed to convict.

It would depend on the charge laid...speed against Hwy sign requires you to prove an actual sign governing that particular section of road, Speed outside a municipality assumes 80 k unless otherwise posted and speed in a Municipality assumes 50 k unless otherwise posted. Crown would have to prove a 50k sign the governed this section of the TCH and that it was visible to the driver. So far you have not given us any such indication?




Again, I'm not looking for specifics with regards to this particular merge lane, but rather simply where one can expect to be legally allowed to accelerate up to the speed of the HWY they are merging onto.[/QUOTE]


And that is what we have been discussing. There would need to be specific signs dealing with specific locations to give you an exact opinion. My advice has been to drive the posted speed limit for the road on which you are driving. Can't get more specific unless there are more specifics with which I am famliar. Sorry. Thus endeth the lesson.

[rriggi]

While always interested in constructive discussions...

Who on earth actually does any of this? I always thought on ramps are a place just to get to highway speed regardless?

And again, wouldn't it be unsafe if cars with poorer acceleration can only begin to speed up at a certain point and merge in against traffic that is moving more quickly? I cant count the amount of times in West Van where cars travelling below 90kmh dart in and everyone slams on the brakes, and I cant count the amount of times I see 911's fly in at well over 180kmh either. I know zulu right now will be wishing to be the one to hand these drivers a excessive speeding fine

The idiots who drive down the merging lane, get to the end, then stop with their car half hanging in 90 kmh traffic should have an instant 7 day impound.
They have people swerving around them on the highway, and a bunch of people behind them checking blind spots and speeding up into their rear end




I remember talking to a guy who had an SL65 AMG, told me the only time he got to mash his foot down was when he was merging into the highway ahah, and that was the sole purpose of him getting the car

[zulutango]

To quote from pages 55 and 56 of ICBC's "developing your smart driving skills"...

"A highway entrance gives you a short distance to match your speed with vehicles already on the highway....the acceleration lane is divided from the rest of the highway by a solid white line. Use this lane to match your speed to the speed of traffic on the freeway".
As I have already said, and they also say, you accelerate to highway speed in these lanes, not stay at the posted speed of the road that you have left.

[Soundy]

Think of it like any other corner - at some point you make the transition from one street to the other... this one is just more gradual, but eventually you ARE on that new street.

Now at some point, your car is on both streets... you can think of this as being Schroedinger's Car.

[jlenko]

Originally Posted by zulutango

To quote from pages 55 and 56 of ICBC's "developing your smart driving skills"...

"A highway entrance gives you a short distance to match your speed with vehicles already on the highway....the acceleration lane is divided from the rest of the highway by a solid white line. Use this lane to match your speed to the speed of traffic on the freeway".
As I have already said, and they also say, you accelerate to highway speed in these lanes, not stay at the posted speed of the road that you have left.

Yeah, and its really easy to spot too. The line on your left side will change from yellow to white.. then you can accelerate to the highway speed. That is, of course, if you know what the speed is there..

[Oleophobic]

^
too bad that's not the case (line changing colours to clearly define where the highway begins) for a lot of highways

anyway from the discussion in this thread and the quote from ICBC it seems the acceleration lane officially beings when the lane you're in is separated from the highway by a solid white line. I will take this to also mean solid white painted island as well:

So in this picture, you are still in the 50 zone where the line is red (median to your left), and may accelerate when the line is green (solid painted island to the left).

[jlenko]

You'd be surprised... every highway merge I've ever cared to look... the yellow changes to white. Neat stuff.

[sebberry]

Originally Posted by jlenko

You'd be surprised... every highway merge I've ever cared to look... the yellow changes to white. Neat stuff.

You know what would be really neat? If I could find that in the MVA.

[Soundy]

Originally Posted by jlenko

You'd be surprised... every highway merge I've ever cared to look... the yellow changes to white. Neat stuff.

If there's an exception to be found anywhere in the province, you know sebberry will sniff it out, even if he has to drive every kilometer of pavement (at the speed limit, of course) to find it.

[sebberry]

Originally Posted by Soundy

If there's an exception to be found anywhere in the province, you know sebberry will sniff it out, even if he has to drive every kilometer of pavement (at the speed limit, of course) to find it.

Under the speed limit. I prefer to leave myself a bit of a buffer should I need to speed up to avoid something

[Soundy]

Originally Posted by sebberry

Under the speed limit. I prefer to leave myself a bit of a buffer should I need to speed up to avoid something

Like bicycles??

[sebberry]

And the odd tricycle.

I mean really, who wants to drive at the absolute maximum safe speed all the time? Better play it safe

[optiblue]

Merge lanes are for speeding up to the highway speedlimit... I've never seen an officer ticketing someone for speeding up to highway speeds on a merge lane. Young drivers even teaches you to floor the car on shorter merge lanes to get up to speed! It's more dangerous to be at 50km/h merging in than would it be to be at highway speeds. The same pretty much goes for coming off the highway, even though there's yellow signs of 50km/h, it's only the recommended and you're supposed to start slowing down safely. The only people I can see getting ticketed are the people that go beyond the highway speed limit while merging in, and people who are going too fast for conditions coming off the highway.

[sebberry]

Yes, we can speed up in the merge lane, but where is the official start to the merge lane?

I tried the "wait until the yellow line turns white before you speed up" thing yesterday. I was almost smoked by one car merging behind me and another passing me on the right to get around me.

[zulutango]

Maybe if you had read my post # 38 this would not have been a problem?

Optiblue is correct and as a YD instructor, that is what I teach. Why volunteer to be a problem when you don't have to be? What sort of a point are you proving?