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-   Vancouver Off-Topic / Current Events (https://www.revscene.net/forums/vancouver-off-topic-current-events_50/)
-   -   Bike Lanes Could be Here to Stay (https://www.revscene.net/forums/669156-bike-lanes-could-here-stay.html)

Meowjin 06-06-2012 10:33 PM
i'm more annoyed that "e-bikes" can go down bike lanes, and park for free in front of every god damn building, but my 50cc scooter which is probably more eco friendly than that shit and the same size.

Seriously, fuck those things.

vafanculo 06-06-2012 10:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Everymans (Post 7940025)
As far as i know, parking downtown is no excuse for a business losing money. Very soon you will have to PAY to drive downtown. So all the traffic will be focused on walking or public transportation. This city is trying to be more progressive in transforming the public into cyclists and public transportation users. Downtown is well connected to all of the main public transportation routes and it has been decentrilized as an industrial hub so truck traffic is not neccesary. Why do you need to drive downtown and park now? Park near you nearest skytrain and ride it downtown? Then get yo shit and ride back. Way cheaper then parking and gas. I'm all for the bike lanes because it's opting for other alternatives. Downtown core is trying to be greener and this is the best step to doing it. when people start to realize that it's so inconvenient to drive downtown then they will eventually stop trying to drive downtown! As for the richmond bike lanes. Well maybe if richmonds citizens realized how amazing bike lanes in that city worked. bike lanes in vaughcouver are plagued by bus traffic and hills. In richmond it's a straight flat shot everywhere you go. Unless you're picking up groceries or it's raining, why do you seriously need to waste the gas and clog the roads if you can bike to your destination?
That's good and all.. But I pay insurance for a reason.. So I can drive my car.

Now, yes, personally I train to DT lot of times. But, for shopping trips, or to go to the beach, or any other destination not close to robson street, I wanna drive.

Why would I pay a high insurance rate so I can transit to vancouver? Skytrain is not super reliable, and come summer time, there's a good chance I'll get a stinky person next to me.

Everymans 06-07-2012 06:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vafanculo (Post 7940152)
That's good and all.. But I pay insurance for a reason.. So I can drive my car.

Now, yes, personally I train to DT lot of times. But, for shopping trips, or to go to the beach, or any other destination not close to robson street, I wanna drive.

Why would I pay a high insurance rate so I can transit to vancouver? Skytrain is not super reliable, and come summer time, there's a good chance I'll get a stinky person next to me.
I don't enjoy it either. But this is what translink is trying to do. They're trying to make driving so inconvient and annoying that you have no choice but to take their half baked transit systems. Still steaming over half a million on tv screens.

Mr.HappySilp 06-07-2012 07:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Everymans (Post 7940025)
As far as i know, parking downtown is no excuse for a business losing money. Very soon you will have to PAY to drive downtown. So all the traffic will be focused on walking or public transportation. This city is trying to be more progressive in transforming the public into cyclists and public transportation users. Downtown is well connected to all of the main public transportation routes and it has been decentrilized as an industrial hub so truck traffic is not neccesary. Why do you need to drive downtown and park now? Park near you nearest skytrain and ride it downtown? Then get yo shit and ride back. Way cheaper then parking and gas. I'm all for the bike lanes because it's opting for other alternatives. Downtown core is trying to be greener and this is the best step to doing it. when people start to realize that it's so inconvenient to drive downtown then they will eventually stop trying to drive downtown! As for the richmond bike lanes. Well maybe if richmonds citizens realized how amazing bike lanes in that city worked. bike lanes in vaughcouver are plagued by bus traffic and hills. In richmond it's a straight flat shot everywhere you go. Unless you're picking up groceries or it's raining, why do you seriously need to waste the gas and clog the roads if you can bike to your destination?
Well if no trucks/cars can drive to downtown how is store going to get thier stuff? How's the restaurant going to get their ingredents to cook? Yea have fun getting ppl to delivery them on bikes. The skytrain system is so busy during rush hours where people have to wait 3 to 4 skytrains before getting on in not ideal. Not to mention it have issue constantly and when it snow you are looking at 1 to 2 hours delay. Not to mention the skytrain stop operating around 12:30am on weekends so how are ppl going to go home after clubbing, drinking.......... Night buses sucks and same with the taxi service.

Good luck telling all these C-lais in Richmond to bike instead of driving.

Why spend millions of dollars into something that only a few ppl can take advantage of and use it for only 3 to 4 months in a year. The gov should instead invest in something else that will actually help everyone.

DHP 1 06-07-2012 07:36 PM
funny thing is we have 3 types of skytrain, one from 20 years ago. What kind of impression do we leave to tourists or people out of town? Inconsistent!

Chuck the old pos train and use one TYPE


my god

yray 06-07-2012 08:34 PM
^ you can't unless you and half a million people are willing to pay more taxes to rip out the tracks and replace everything.

many places use separate systems, not a big deal. The big problem is proactive planning vs. reactive planning; translink uses reactive planning so we have shitload of problems in our system.

falcon 06-07-2012 09:28 PM
I think he is talking about the cars themselves.



That being said... go to Paris. Their "skytrain" runs on rubber wheels... and looks like it's from the 40's.... lol

yray 06-07-2012 09:32 PM
^Michelin sponsored :troll:

tgill 06-07-2012 10:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DHP 1 (Post 7941036)
funny thing is we have 3 types of skytrain, one from 20 years ago. What kind of impression do we leave to tourists or people out of town? Inconsistent!

Chuck the old pos train and use one TYPE


my god
Never stepped outside of Vancouver? Every transportation system on this planet operates various rolling stock from various manufacturers.

slammer111 06-08-2012 12:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Santofu (Post 7939863)
One question... Does Gregor even fucking ride bike to work?
Yes he does, and doesn't obey every traffic law either.

Vancouver mayor caught biking through red light | CTV British Columbia

Quote:
Vancouver's bike-friendly Mayor Gregor Robertson was caught red-handed last week when he cycled through a stoplight and was almost hit by a bus.

The mayor was in the new Dunsmuir Street bike lane on July 22 when he blew through a red light to make a right turn onto Richards Street without stopping or checking for oncoming traffic.

Michele MacDonald had to slam on the brakes of the bus she was driving.

"The bumper was maybe about two feet from his leg," she told CTV News. "The heart was right up there in the throat for me."

MacDonald said she didn't realize who she had almost hit.

"I didn't know it was him until he lifted his bicycle up off the road onto the curb…. I looked through the doors of the bus and realized it was our mayor, Gregor Robertson."

She said he was quick to apologize and looked shaken by the near-collision.

"He looked very sorry and he looked very shocked," MacDonald said.

The normally high profile mayor was unavailable for an interview Tuesday, but he did issue a statement on the incident.

"It was a good lesson for me and I hope it serves as a reminder to everyone to use caution and follow the rules when out on the road," Robertson said in the statement.

UFO 06-08-2012 01:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.HappySilp (Post 7941022)
Well if no trucks/cars can drive to downtown how is store going to get thier stuff? How's the restaurant going to get their ingredents to cook? Yea have fun getting ppl to delivery them on bikes. The skytrain system is so busy during rush hours where people have to wait 3 to 4 skytrains before getting on in not ideal. Not to mention it have issue constantly and when it snow you are looking at 1 to 2 hours delay. Not to mention the skytrain stop operating around 12:30am on weekends so how are ppl going to go home after clubbing, drinking.......... Night buses sucks and same with the taxi service.
These all sound like excuses to me of why people PREFER to drive instead of transit. Most of what you are complaining about has nothing to do with the bikelanes specifically.
-deliveries: they are not banning cars/trucks into DT. Deliveries will still be made obviously
-waiting 3-4 skytrains during rush hour=10-15 mins wait. Hardly an inconvenience. Have you sat through rush hour traffic in your car?
-skytrain issues: how often are you having skytrain issues 'constantly'?
-skytrain snow delays: have you driven with Vancouver drivers when we get even 1cm of 'snow'? People who manage to keep their car straight are driving 20km/h. At least skytrain will ensure you will actually get to your destination
-late transit service: once again they are not banning cars from entering DT, has nothing to do with bikelanes whatsoever

I follow the train of thought that the DT bike lanes are great, but need to be tweaked and implemented to maximize efficiency for everybody. Now that the big money has been put down to build them, I'm strongly opposed to spending equal big money to have them ripped out. With a bit of work they can be very good. Yes it rains a lot in Vancouver, but some people don't mind riding in the mild rain. Some people also think the weather is a lot bigger deal than it really is until they try it for themselves. I think the bike lane mentality is 'build it and they will come'. I think I see it happening albeit slowly, but high gas prices are also helping the process along

FWIW News1130 ran a poll a couple of days ago and about 60% of people voted in favour of KEEPING the bike lanes, despite the strong opposition to them when they were first installed.

Mr.HappySilp 06-08-2012 02:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by UFO (Post 7941755)
These all sound like excuses to me of why people PREFER to drive instead of transit. Most of what you are complaining about has nothing to do with the bikelanes specifically.
-deliveries: they are not banning cars/trucks into DT. Deliveries will still be made obviously
-waiting 3-4 skytrains during rush hour=10-15 mins wait. Hardly an inconvenience. Have you sat through rush hour traffic in your car?
-skytrain issues: how often are you having skytrain issues 'constantly'?
-skytrain snow delays: have you driven with Vancouver drivers when we get even 1cm of 'snow'? People who manage to keep their car straight are driving 20km/h. At least skytrain will ensure you will actually get to your destination
-late transit service: once again they are not banning cars from entering DT, has nothing to do with bikelanes whatsoever

I follow the train of thought that the DT bike lanes are great, but need to be tweaked and implemented to maximize efficiency for everybody. Now that the big money has been put down to build them, I'm strongly opposed to spending equal big money to have them ripped out. With a bit of work they can be very good. Yes it rains a lot in Vancouver, but some people don't mind riding in the mild rain. Some people also think the weather is a lot bigger deal than it really is until they try it for themselves. I think the bike lane mentality is 'build it and they will come'. I think I see it happening albeit slowly, but high gas prices are also helping the process along

FWIW News1130 ran a poll a couple of days ago and about 60% of people voted in favour of KEEPING the bike lanes, despite the strong opposition to them when they were first installed.
You still haven't answer my question what waste millions of dollars into something that less that 30% of the population will use and it can only be use for 3 to 4 months in a year. Sure 60% ppl voted to keep them but of that 60% How many actually uses the bike lanes everyday.

Instead of spending on the bike lanes the money should be use to improve our current tranist system. Maybe get more trains on the track to run during rush hours, have special shutters that will take ppl form Boardway straight to Burrard during rush hours. Expanding the time skytrain will run. THese changes will benfit a lot more people than putting in more bike lanes.

heleu 06-08-2012 03:06 PM
I used to live in downtown and now I live in Richmond. I bike twice a week to work and drive/skytrain the other days.

The current bikelanes are overdesigned. The couriers just bike on the road and ignore the bike lanes because they get slowed down. I think you would be able to squeeze a bike lane in without the extra planters and stuff they have now and still have some space for parking. There needs to be some sort of compromise...

UFO 06-08-2012 04:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.HappySilp (Post 7941776)
You still haven't answer my question what waste millions of dollars into something that less that 30% of the population will use and it can only be use for 3 to 4 months in a year. Sure 60% ppl voted to keep them but of that 60% How many actually uses the bike lanes everyday.
Because the ~$5M that has been spent on the DT bike lanes has already been spent, and to remove them and restore the road will be another million or two. So if they are removed, $7M of money has essentially been thrown down the drain with absolutely nothing to show for. Maintaining the bike lanes are a minimal annual cost comparatively. The bike lanes are built already, they may be underutilized now but they have the potential to be grown into in the future.

The 60% of people who want to keep them may not use them everyday or ever, but it shows the increased traffic congestion from the bike lanes to be as big a problem as a lot of people are making them out to be. Truth is traffic downtown was crappy before the bike lanes, and now it is a bit crappier.

Quote:
Instead of spending on the bike lanes the money should be use to improve our current tranist system. Maybe get more trains on the track to run during rush hours, have special shutters that will take ppl form Boardway straight to Burrard during rush hours. Expanding the time skytrain will run. THese changes will benfit a lot more people than putting in more bike lanes.
The ideas you are recommending do not cost a few million, you are talking about 10's if not 100's of millions judging by how they spend $500k on some computer screens; and they will require significant ongoing continual costs to keep running and that will come via tolls, gas taxes, property taxes, which we are all too familiar with and love. Skytrains run every ~3 minutes during rush hour, how much more often do you want them to run? They already have shuttles that run from downtown to Broadway, its called the bus. The Burrard express bus lane already saves a ton of time over sitting in gridlock traffic during rush hour if you were in your car. Why expand the time that Skytrain runs at night when there are only a handful of people who will use those services, arguably less people than those who use the DT bike lanes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by heleu (Post 7941807)
The couriers just bike on the road and ignore the bike lanes because they get slowed down.
The bike lanes weren't built for the couriers. No matter how perfectly built the bike lanes are the couriers will just ride with and in between cars which ever way they wish. They are equivalent to taxi drivers, they really don't give a damn and know that driver's can't hit them.

Mr.HappySilp 06-08-2012 08:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by UFO (Post 7941895)
Because the ~$5M that has been spent on the DT bike lanes has already been spent, and to remove them and restore the road will be another million or two. So if they are removed, $7M of money has essentially been thrown down the drain with absolutely nothing to show for. Maintaining the bike lanes are a minimal annual cost comparatively. The bike lanes are built already, they may be underutilized now but they have the potential to be grown into in the future.

The 60% of people who want to keep them may not use them everyday or ever, but it shows the increased traffic congestion from the bike lanes to be as big a problem as a lot of people are making them out to be. Truth is traffic downtown was crappy before the bike lanes, and now it is a bit crappier.



The ideas you are recommending do not cost a few million, you are talking about 10's if not 100's of millions judging by how they spend $500k on some computer screens; and they will require significant ongoing continual costs to keep running and that will come via tolls, gas taxes, property taxes, which we are all too familiar with and love. Skytrains run every ~3 minutes during rush hour, how much more often do you want them to run? They already have shuttles that run from downtown to Broadway, its called the bus. The Burrard express bus lane already saves a ton of time over sitting in gridlock traffic during rush hour if you were in your car. Why expand the time that Skytrain runs at night when there are only a handful of people who will use those services, arguably less people than those who use the DT bike lanes?



The bike lanes weren't built for the couriers. No matter how perfectly built the bike lanes are the couriers will just ride with and in between cars which ever way they wish. They are equivalent to taxi drivers, they really don't give a damn and know that driver's can't hit them.
Ppl paid to use the skytrains while people who use bikes don't have to pay a penny so you can never get any money out from them. With gates being install in every skytrain the revenue will increase. If the spending on increase transit is monitior carefully by a 3rd party the money can be well spent on.

More skytrain service is needed at night because there will be less ppl drink and drive at night. It provides a safe way to get home. Also, skytrain does not comes every 3mins during rush hours, is 5 to 7mins and that's only on the expo line. On the millenium is around 5mins at least. I take it everyday to work so I know. However, lot's of times the skytrain is fully pack already at joyce, 29th Ave, Oak and Boardway stations so ppl have to no choice but to wait for the next train.

More Bike lanes will not solve the traffic issue. Increase in transit service will benfit a lot more ppl. Also when ppl go shopping in downtown do you really expect them to ride their bikes? The population in Vancouver is too spread to make biking effective. Just an example from Metrotown to Downtown biking will take at least 60mins or more while skytrain is going to take maybe 20mins to 30mins. Expanding public transit is the way to go. A skytrain or ever a bus carries way more passenger than a bike can. PPl want to drive to downtown because of conveniencess. Some ppl might want to go shopping after working in downtown and actually buy something or want to go elsewhere for dinner or even do some exercise. Is not fun carrying a few bags with you to bike around the city.

Is good that you bike to work but I will never ever do it. I rather have the freedom to chose what I want to do after work rather then limiting myself to what I can do after work becasue I bike and have to go home first before doing anything else.

tgill 06-08-2012 09:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.HappySilp (Post 7942022)
Ppl paid to use the skytrains while people who use bikes don't have to pay a penny so you can never get any money out from them. With gates being install in every skytrain the revenue will increase. If the spending on increase transit is monitior carefully by a 3rd party the money can be well spent on.
-Cyclists provide funding through taxes; you cannot compare the cost and funding of a transit system versus a fucking bike lane.

-Fare Gates do not increase revenue, they reduce fair invasion and increase a sense off security, although an increase in security may increase ridership and therefore revenue; regardless any gained revenue will not offset the cost of install fair gates for many many years.

None of this fucking matters anyways since the Vision government running the City of Vancouver plan to demo the Georgia and Dunsmir viaduct removing a vital east-west connector.
The plan/propaganda from the City of Vancouver if anyone is interested: http://vancouver.ca/commsvcs/current...ouseBoards.pdf

kunoman1 06-08-2012 10:14 PM
I love how the bike lanes were put in on a "trial basis" and they weren't that successful and they're here to stay anyway...didn't know low success rates equated to a justifiable success

bcrdukes 06-09-2012 03:23 PM
Somewhat related but an interesting comic published in the Georgia Straight.

-Warning: Image may display extremely large in size on some browsers

Yodamaster 06-09-2012 10:20 PM
Bike lanes are the result of a failure of logic, logic that is based on Vancouver being rained on eight months out of a calendar year.

The disappointment is not that they spent so much on something that so few use, it's the fact that there are people managing the land that apparently do not know the land at all.

Which brings me to the same question as always;

"How do so many idiots infiltrate our leadership without fail?"

goo3 06-10-2012 05:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by UFO (Post 7941895)
Because the ~$5M that has been spent on the DT bike lanes has already been spent, and to remove them and restore the road will be another million or two. So if they are removed, $7M of money has essentially been thrown down the drain with absolutely nothing to show for.
I just wanted to note that we just threw away $1.6 Billion by bringing back the PST merely out of spite. We also rejected a promised move to 10% HST for an unknown PST/GST :lol

UFO 06-11-2012 12:24 AM
Perfect reason why the general public should not be given a chance to vote for taxation options lol

Tapioca 06-12-2012 12:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.HappySilp (Post 7942022)
More skytrain service is needed at night because there will be less ppl drink and drive at night. It provides a safe way to get home. Also, skytrain does not comes every 3mins during rush hours, is 5 to 7mins and that's only on the expo line. On the millenium is around 5mins at least. I take it everyday to work so I know. However, lot's of times the skytrain is fully pack already at joyce, 29th Ave, Oak and Boardway stations so ppl have to no choice but to wait for the next train.
I'm on the Millennium Line and I've been taking the train downtown for 5 years. Expo Line service is very good during rush hour - trains come basically every minute and I almost always get on when I switch trains at Broadway because I always walk to the back of the platform.

Quote:
More Bike lanes will not solve the traffic issue. Increase in transit service will benfit a lot more ppl. Also when ppl go shopping in downtown do you really expect them to ride their bikes? The population in Vancouver is too spread to make biking effective. Just an example from Metrotown to Downtown biking will take at least 60mins or more while skytrain is going to take maybe 20mins to 30mins. Expanding public transit is the way to go. A skytrain or ever a bus carries way more passenger than a bike can. PPl want to drive to downtown because of conveniencess. Some ppl might want to go shopping after working in downtown and actually buy something or want to go elsewhere for dinner or even do some exercise. Is not fun carrying a few bags with you to bike around the city.
Transit to the downtown core is already very good and no more service is actually needed because the number of people working downtown has remained relatively stable for the last decade.

What's needed is better transit connections between various cities in Metro Vancouver. Unfortunately, this will literally cost billions of dollars and if Revscene is in any way representative of the population in Metro Vancouver at large, pigs will have to fly before we come up with the money to pay for any expansions.

Gumby 06-13-2012 03:57 PM
Local News Story

Quote:
Vancouver city councillors have voted to make temporary bike lanes in the downtown core permanent.


They spent nearly three hours discussing separated lanes installed on Burrard, Dnsmuir and Hornby over the past three years, with councillor Geoff Meggs calling the vote.

"All those in favour of the recommendation please show. I there any opposed? It's carried unanimously. Thanks very much."

Charles Gauthier with the Downtown Vancouver Business Improvement Association also lobbied council to let drivers turn right onto Hornby from Dunsmuir.

"You have an option available to you to rectify a major deficiency and to mitigate the negative economic impacts associated with the lanes. This would go a long way to show your support for the small businesses in this part of the downtown."

That proposed amendment by NPA councillor George Affleck was defeated by the Vision Vancouver majority.

drunkrussian 06-13-2012 05:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidTurbo (Post 7939853)
Bike lanes are good if done right. For example does anyone care about the bikelane on Burrand Bridge?
agreed. or the one running across the entire length of garden city, the second busiest street on clai land richmond

nns 06-14-2012 07:40 AM
The city wants to rent bikes to people.
Quote:
Vancouver’s controversial separated bike lanes were made permanent Wednesday but city council decided against a downtown business proposal to spend an extra $2.5 million to put in some right turn lanes.

The bike lanes, which separate bicycles from vehicle along Hornby and Dunsmuir streets and along the Dunsmuir Viaduct were put in at a cost of $4.1 million. Their aim is to give cyclists a safe route through the downtown core, and connect to the Seawall and Stanley Park.

Their installation closed off right turns off Dunsmuir onto Seymour Street and Hornby.

Businesses, primarily along Hornby, felt an immediate drop in visitors and were also affected by the loss of on-street parking.

Charles Gauthier, executive director of the Downtown Vancouver Business Improvement Association, made a last-ditch appeal to the city to set up a “trial” of right turns for Hornby and Seymour.

Jerry Dobrovolny, the city’s director of transportation, said reworking the streets to allow the right turn lanes would reduce sidewalks in the affected areas from three metres to 1.8 metres — or about the frontage on residential street.

There was also what Dobrovolny called “the potential for conflict” because in peak hours about 200 to 300 drivers would be making right turns on Hornby and Seymour. But in those same peak hours there were 300 to four cyclists using the lanes and potentially being at risk.

Gauthier said he was “disappointed but not surprised.”

“We knew this was going to be an uphill battle,” he said. “We’ll just have to adapt, it sounds like.

“I think what will happen over time is that the businesses that are not able to adapt will at some point not renew their leases along that corridor,” he said.

Council spent most of the day discussing bikes as it was also briefed on the state of the city’s public bike share program.

The program will involve bikes which can be used for short trips around the downtown as an extension of the transit system, as is done in cities around the world.

A deal is still being worked out with the proponent who will run the system but Dobrovolny said the cost to the city could be about $1.9 million annually for 10 years.

The plan is to have 1,500 bikes at 125 stations with helmets, which is a provincial regulation complicating the plan.

Dobrovolny said an increase of just one per cent in cycling would be equivalent to 16,000 trips a day — reducing congestion on the roads and transit, along with less greenhouse gas emissions.

But bike rental companies, particularly around Stanley Park, fear the bike share program as deadly competition. A thriving bike rental business in Montreal was severely impacted when a bike share was started there.

Council will vote on the deal this fall, with implementation scheduled for spring of 2013.
http://www.theprovince.com/news/Vanc...978/story.html

Who the hell would want to share a helmet with some stranger? I don't want your cologne, body odour, sweat, etc on me.

It seems like the council's uncompromising stance on anything involving public interest is like them saying "Whatever, I do what I want".


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