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^^ I agree. Some Tercels don't even have ABS and braking distance from 100-0km/h is going to be very high. Something like 150 or 160 feet. A 458 Italia can do the same in 99 feet and should give the driver more confidence and be easier to control as well.
Its the same speed in this sense but 30km/h extra in a Ferrari isn't much. I could be wrong though so if anyone can school me on braking distance then I'd be grateful.
I really, really doubt it. It would be simple physics if they both had identical braking systems, tires etc. Take a 911 GT2RS for example, It will stop from 112KMH in 145 feet. A tercel? Yeah, No.
I remember we had a discussion about this in the other 4 impounded car thread, and it really surprised me, so i went to look for it
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Originally Posted by dangonay
Sigh. We go through this discussion every time this topic comes up.
I don't have time to go through everything again as it just doesn't seem to sink in with anybody. But here's a quick one for you:
This vehicle pictured below is a 2003 Utilimaster Food Truck. Did you know this vehicle can stop shorter from 60mph than a 750i or Porsche GT3 can from only 80mph?
Imagine that - a high performance car like the GT3 (which is well known for its superior braking abilitiy) can't even drive 20mph faster than this POS truck and stop in as short a distance. Oh, the GT3 will sure "feel" a lot better doing it, but when you're in a panic situation (avoiding an accident) people aren't thinking about how "good" their car feels.
And if you're interested in the actual test results, here they are:
I really, really doubt it. It would be simple physics if they both had identical braking systems, tires etc. Take a 911 GT2RS for example, It will stop from 112KMH in 145 feet. A tercel? Yeah, No.
Yes, there will always be variations due to technological differences (ABS, carbon brakes, tires, etc), but apart from a few extremes, it doesn't really matter.
Why do I get the feeling that the owners aren't nearly as outraged as some of you are?
I mean, to me, it's fairly simple. They sped, they got caught, and they were punished. End of story. Like someone said earlier, it's not like the government is dumping the cars into the ocean, they'll get them back in a week. It's not hard to imagine that these guys may be humbly accepting their punishment like men.
I wonder how different the tone would be in here if they were caught street racing? A lot of you say you're against street racing, but speeding and street racing aren't exactly mutually exclusive.
Although Braking is very important when avoiding a collision, it shouldn't be the only factor that we look at when we consider what is dangerous speeds. Sure, the speed limits in our city may be a bit low, but I don't disagree with that speed because there are many cars in our roads that are old and don't have the capabilities to drive at higher speeds safely. But lets see if 130km/hr is "safe" speed for the porsche on the highway.
It is true that the braking capability of the porsche may not differ by a lot with the tercel, but how about braking and manoeuvring at the same time? Accidents are usually avoided not just by braking, but by steering the car out of the collision path.
If you watch this video, you can see the handling characteristics of the porsche 911 GT2 (Enters the turn at 133km/hr). let's assume these drivers are able to handle their car like that. They would have a pretty good chance at avoiding the accident. On the other hand, the Tercel will have a hard time avoiding a collision at the speed because it does not have the handling characteristics, the sport compound tires, or the computers to help the driver.
Yes these drivers deserve the punishment because they were warned before and they are driving on the public road, but the cars they were driving are much more safe at those higher speeds than a tercel. Sure crashes are inevitable no matter what car you drive, but in my opinion, 130 isn't excessive for the porsches in this case.
The point is that excessive speeding is different among all cars, but to make a law that can categorize different excessive speed is stupid. However,I think the current law is stupid the power of impoundments should not be up to the police officer.
I mean, to me, it's fairly simple. They sped, they got caught, and they were punished. End of story.
More to the point of THIS story: They sped, they got caught, they got a warning... they sped again, they got caught again, they got punished.
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Originally Posted by sekin67835
let's assume these drivers are able to handle their car like that. They would have a pretty good chance at avoiding the accident. On the other hand, the Tercel will have a hard time avoiding a collision at the speed because it does not have the handling characteristics, the sport compound tires, or the computers to help the driver.
Yes, but central to all this is the HUGE, GIGANTIC, INCREDIBLY MASSIVE assumption of the drivers' relative skills. A skilled driver in the Tercel will run circles around the n00b in the supercar.
Quote:
Yes these drivers deserve the punishment because they were warned before and they are driving on the public road, but the cars they were driving are much more safe at those higher speeds than a tercel. Sure crashes are inevitable no matter what car you drive, but in my opinion, 130 isn't excessive for the porsches in this case.
Not for those cars, maybe... but how about for those drivers?
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The point is that excessive speeding is different among all cars, but to make a law that can categorize different excessive speed is stupid.
So, what, you say the law itself should differentiate between cars? Going 30 over in a Porsche is good, but in a Tercel it's not? You're gonna need a fucking HUGE highway sign to list all the different speeds for the different cars, nevermind taking into account lower-end cars that have been properly modified for better handling (not just riced out).
Just not practical to do that.
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However,I think the current law is stupid the power of impoundments should not be up to the police officer.
It's not, actually: if you're doing 40 over, he's technically REQUIRED to impound the car, although there's a stated policy to give leeway up to 50 over to account for inaccuracies.
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Originally Posted by Godzira
Does anyone know how many to a signature?
..
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Originally Posted by Brianrietta
Not a sebberry post goes by where I don't frown and think to myself "so..?"
i mean put me in front of a judge, in a court room, and if it's decided in the court of law that my car will be impounded, then so be it.
but a cop on the road side can tow your car away and keep it for 7 days? whatever happened to innocent until PROVEN guilty? where is the proof?
even if you win the excessive speeding case, you're still out the impound/towing fee and that's not cheap at all.
the impound powers given to police have effectively turned them into the judge and jury as well when it comes to towing your cars and locking it up, which i don't believe is right
The worst part about this is the negative image it puts on the club and the BBC event in particular.
I just want to make it abundantly clear that the idea of the BBC has always been a leisurely enjoyable drive up the sea-to-sky early in the morning when there is little traffic to contend with. It was NEVER any sort of street race or such nonsense.
In fact, we instituted a rule whereby once leaving the parking lot, no Porsche shall pass another Porsche during the drive. The pace is always set to be within the acceptable limits or norm of the highway. This has always been impressed upon all the drivers at the meeting before departure.
I remember many BBCs where there would be an SUV or some other random everyday car that catches up to the rear of the BBC, and tailgates and tries to pass or does pass every Porsche, because we are doing a fair pace and they want to go 130++kph. Yet that never makes the news, it's too boring.
Not really sure what happened this past weekend as I have not had a street-legal Porsche to take to a BBC in over a year now, but I'm sure those involved will have learned to behave from now on.
I would also like to make a point that seems to be completely misunderstood by 99% of the posters above.
The news mentioned that the Police warned "a" Porsche Club the week before. It makes NO mention that it was the "same" Porsche Club, or the same members thereof, that had their vehicles impounded.
There are 30-50 vehicles at most BBCs, and about 20-30% of the drivers are different each time - sometimes they are not even club members.
I would also like to make a point that seems to be completely misunderstood by 99% of the posters above.
The news mentioned that the Police warned "a" Porsche Club the week before. It makes NO mention that it was the "same" Porsche Club, or the same members thereof, that had their vehicles impounded.
The 24 Hours article quoted on the previous page indicates that it WAS the same drivers:
The same officer had already issued a warning the previous week to the drivers, who are members of a Porsche club that drive up the highway together each Saturday morning.
“The officer was on the look out for this group and went out the following Saturday at the same time and place. And they did it again after being warned,” Khorram said.
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Originally Posted by Godzira
Does anyone know how many to a signature?
..
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Originally Posted by Brianrietta
Not a sebberry post goes by where I don't frown and think to myself "so..?"
The way the media wrote that article disgusts me ...
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Speeding Porsche posse busted on highway to Squamish
West Vancouver police bust high-speed Porsche club on Sea to Sky highway. (CARMINE MARINELLI/24 HOURS)
By ERICA BULMAN, 24 HOURS
A West Vancouver police officer single-handedly pulled over and impounded four Porsches rocketing along the Sea to Sky corridor at high speed this weekend, in the latest case of dangerous group racing.
The four male drivers — all from Vancouver — were “relieved” of their vehicles for seven days, and each driver was given a $368 ticket, police said.
At 7:40 a.m. on Saturday, the officer saw the Porsches travelling in a pack, and caught them on the stationary radar driving at speeds between 125 and 131 km/h in an 80-kilometre zone.
“The officer actually used his car to block the road and pull them over,” said Const. Tammy Khorram.
The same officer had already issued a warning the previous week to the drivers, who are members of a Porsche club that drive up the highway together each Saturday morning.
“The officer was on the look out for this group and went out the following Saturday at the same time and place. And they did it again after being warned,” Khorram said.
Three of the drivers were aged between 41 and 48. The other was in his mid 20s.
Mitchell Martin of Mitchell’s Towing in North Vancouver — where the four Porsches were impounded — called the flashiest of the four a “beautiful race-track-ready” car. His staff estimated its value at about $130,000 outside the $50,000-$70,000 added in “after-market goodies.”
Mitchell said his company had towed some 15 vehicles over the long weekend, mostly after excessive speed or DUI infractions, while Payless Auto Towing staff estimated they towed about 25.
It marked the fourth major pack-racing incident in the Lower Mainland in just two weeks.
On July 24, Mounties seized four high-end cars that were racing at 160 km/h down Highway 1 before being nabbed at Cassiar Tunnel. The drivers, aged 21 to 23, were all given $483 tickets and had their cars impounded. Three of them had previous driving prohibitions and novice licences.
Just five days earlier, a group of five motorcyclists, some doing double the 80 km/h limit on the Sea to Sky Highway, had their bikes impounded.
Who's to really say they were "racing" ?... couldn't be a group of friends just cruising up together?
I'm not going to say anybody is lying or not but I would like to assume that 3 guys aged 41-48 know better than to be "street racing" compared to say 3 19-year old N sign drivers.
Were there any witnesses that saw them "racing" ?... like pulling on the outside lanes, passing each other?
Or were they simply driving up in a pack?
What exactly constitutes the difference between 'street racing' and driving over the speed limit in a group?
It's a matter of interpretation. I could say I was "speeding" to get home, but the police officer could say I was "racing" to get home. It's the same with the Porsche drivers. In their minds they could simply have been travelling in a group at a speed that was higher than the posted speed limit. However, to an officer that spots a bunch of high powered sports cars exceeding speeds in the "excessive speeding" portion of a ticket, they very well could have been racing. And no, they may not have been blocking traffic to let other Porsche drivers do a rolling race, but a pack of cars at high speeds is typically considered to be "racing."
Edit: While I'm usually one of the first to talk about how the media loves to sensationalize things, I'd have to say that the article Obsiden posted wasn't really that bad.
What exactly constitutes the difference between 'street racing' and driving over the speed limit in a group?
Not everybody will share my opinion but I would like to think that "controlled speeding" in a cooperative group with 1 leader and everyone else following suit in the lines would generally be safer then a bunch of amateur yahoos attempting to aggressively blow pass each other while going at similar speeds?
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Originally Posted by Soundy
Good - then they've done their job.
Who's the say they weren't?
So making me never want to read their newspaper again due to printing such blatantly biased views constitutes them having done their job?
My point exactly, innocent until proven guilty? Who's to say they were racing, who's to say they weren't? So then why does that article just automatically assume that they were?
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Originally Posted by Lomac
It's a matter of interpretation. I could say I was "speeding" to get home, but the police officer could say I was "racing" to get home. It's the same with the Porsche drivers. In their minds they could simply have been travelling in a group at a speed that was higher than the posted speed limit. However, to an officer that spots a bunch of high powered sports cars exceeding speeds in the "excessive speeding" portion of a ticket, they very well could have been racing. And no, they may not have been blocking traffic to let other Porsche drivers do a rolling race, but a pack of cars at high speeds is typically considered to be "racing."
Edit: While I'm usually one of the first to talk about how the media loves to sensationalize things, I'd have to say that the article Obsiden posted wasn't really that bad.
The point I'm trying to get at is that 4 cars driving fast down the street in a straight line together with pre-determined guidelines such as "no passing" is DIFFERENT from 4 cars with the purpose of trying to get from point A to point B faster than each other. The mentality is completely opposite therefore much more dangerous and paints them in a bad light until otherwise proven that they were infact RACING.
Not to mention that from my experience MOST vehicles on the Sea-to-Sky easily hit the 120+km/h mark on average. I remember getting blown past by Ford pick-up trucks & EG Civics while coasting down that highway going around that speed. Are they all of a sudden "racing" me now?
What actually happened (as I am told from one of the drivers that was actually there) was that a warning from the RCMP about extra enforcement was passed along to Bob, who passed it along to all the drivers at the mandatory driver's meeting before leaving the parking lot. Over the last 10-15 years we have had active RCMP and VPD officers involved in the BBC and they are fully aware of what the event is, and have always given the event leeway knowing full well the responsibility of the drivers involved. Officers have given feedback over the years and helped us keep the event fun and safe.
That said, they have also given tickets when deserved, and we have little sympathy for club members or non-member interlopers who disregard the rules we have set for the event and get busted for it.
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