you TL DR but you thought exactly what I wrote. The city loves the money the foreigners are bringing in, including the tax dollars on home sales.

Good video on why you shouldn't buy pre-sale

Pretty stupid to say that definitively. I bought presale and couldn't be happier. My place is nice, the value increased probably 100k before I walked through the door, and after a year of living there we have had zero issues.
Don't buy a piece of shit condo from a piece of shit builder.

Pre-sales are almost the only way to get value anymore

yea pre-sales are a sure way to get value and also make a decent investment. Like westopher said, just buy from a reputable developer and not some new shady one and will be fine.

I actually walked right past this guy on the street in Yale Town a few weeks ago... he was wearing exactly the same cloths!

/useless thread contribution

Yes and no. A lot of good builder now pretty much contract their jobs out, and the person who got the contract will sub contract it out....... I wouldn't say all pre sales are shit but there are stuff that needs fixing for sure. Even after my initial inspection, wrote done all the stuff that needs fixing. Came back a month later to get keys and still some stuff is not fix. Mind you is nothing serious but still...... now it will even be harder to get stuff fix coz I already got the keys...... From what I heard form friends who bought pre-sale it could take 6 to 8 months before they fix everything for you and that's why them nagging almost weekly.

As I mention I earlier lucky for me most of the stuff are fixed expect a few minor details. I mean to us it could be serious issue but to the developers/contractors those stuff are so tiny when compare to the whole building they might even care.

With pre-sale you don't have to pay all of it up front. Is more like 5% then 5% then 10% (or something like that). So it might be easier to people to save up for a down payment.

Also I wouldn't worry about who my neighbor will be. With apartments these days, just expect 90% to be rented out and people will treat public areas like shit (see my other thread how some people keep parking at my parking space).

How do you guys go about finding reputable developers? Are there any forums where I can read about people's experience's with their properties/developers?

I spoke with an inspector a while back and he told me that 80-90% of developers out there have major build issues like the one mentioned in the video, not sure how valid that statement was though

The majority of the big builders who've been around for a while are fine. Bosa, Onni, metro-can, Urban one, etc.

There is a huge difference between mechanical/electrical/build problems than with finishing details. Doors jamming, nail pops, flex in floor etc. are almost accepted these days because builds go so fast builders rarely have time to go back after a unit has been sitting prior to turn over. Things settle, moisture evaporates, caulking cracks, etc.

Just because people have a mindset that they paid X amount their unit should be absolutely perfect isn't the reality. It's kind of a funny switch of roles in most cases because developers and builders obviously spend the most time going over their most expensive units with a fine tooth comb to make sure they are perfect, when in most cases the people buying the high end units seemingly don't give a shit about the small imperfections that the people buying the lower end units do

Big names tend to be better but still because the work is contracted so is hard to do. Now most of the big name developers do have a slightly higher standards (they might have people check before handing out keys or doing walk ins). It just depends on your unit as well. My have little issue while a co-worker who purchase in the same building the paint wasn't even finish when she did the inspection.

Outside of people who build a handful of custom homes a year, -everyone- contracts out almost all their work.

Companies like Concorde, bosa etc. have thousands of employees and it's still nearly impossible to not contract out everything. It's the nature of construction and has been forever really. Saying somthing was "contracted out" means nothing.

thats like asking what used car dealership you should buy from.

I wouldnt personally vouch for any of these developers since its a numbers game and you dont know if tradesman are licensed or came to work sober that day.

Gotta ask your friends and don't feel pressured into buying a presale. Make sure it meets all your criteria since you're the one getting first dibs.

Concorde, Bosa and Concert are some names I heard were "reputable"

^^

This, low price will get the contract regardless. Developers are cheap, they want there development built for the lowest price possible. Quality is a huge issue, there has been a shift from the subcontractors point of view as well.

I know speaking from my perspective we now have people that do nothing but quality control for our work, they go suite to suite inspecting all our work and signing it off when it's complete and having it fixed where it's not done right. This is something somewhat new, it used to be handled by the general but the large ones are nothing more then paper pushers now. They have almost no skilled labour on the job, it's all pushed off to subs including the items that traditionally used to be done by the GC.

You can have a terrible relationship with the GC, hate each other by the end of the job end up in court and it won't matter because if you're low bidder on the next project you'll get the job. Tower work is such BS, margins are slimmer then slim I'd be very happy if we never did another tower or hotel again unfortunately like the developers the guy who owns the company I work for is also greedy.

Bosa uses mostly Bosa contractors, they have family members that own companies that do almost every subtrade. As an outside Sub you don't want a Bosa or Axiom project because if you get it it's probably because you fucked up your bid so bad that the Bosa companies can't touch your price. They'll gladly let you do there project at a loss.

accepted by who?

they can't go back after turn-over?

Rarely have time is a sad, sad excuse.

Can you imagine getting dental work done and when you go back with non-major issues and they tell you things settle, bonding crack, etc etc?

Most put their entire life savings at their home, they should be able to get a place that is without faults within the first 5 years minimum.

Ahhh boy should be interesting as I'm expecting a call for walk through inspection within the next 2 months. Hondaracer thanks in advance for that sheet you did up last year, I got it saved and should be helpful.

I'm really not sure what mindset I'm going to take going in. Anal as fuck or somewhere in the middle. I've heard all the different stories on both ends and you just never know. I've had some friends bring up something that wasn't exactly a "huge" issue but was an issue none the less and it turned into a much bigger issue when they tried to fix it because they fucked it up even more and eventually took multiple tries and headaches before getting it right. It's like I should have just left it in the first place lol.

I have a feeling if things are generally "ok" I will likely let go of certain things. Stuff like caulk jobs, shit I guarantee my brother in law can do a better job than any person they send so things like that I'd probably be fuck it I'm fixing it myself. Crossing fingers!

That's the reality out there. And there are going to be issue no matter what. Serious lssue to us most likely means small things to the contractors or developers.

When you do the walk through have 2 to 3 people with you. This way while the guy is explaining all the details with you, someone else is checking the unit for fixing. Because they don't give you a lot of time and having more people really helps (I have like my parents, sister and brother in law and barely have enough time). Check all the light swtiches make sure they are eaving and working, check the lightbulbs, amke sure doors locks and is smooth when closing, make sure water runs to the sinks and the bathrub and wahsroom, make sure hardwood floor doesn't have large gaps, windows open and close, cabinets works, stove fridge and ok, walls are painted, the marble top are smooth and no stratches etc etc...... Is ok to put mark more stuff that needs fixing because chances are they will only fix like 20% on the stuff on the list and only the serious stuff.

A downside of more supply: shoddy workmanship.

Am I out to lunch in thinking that housing stock from 1990s to early 2000s is probably the best bet in terms of used housing?
- No asbestos
- Modern electrical
- Rainscreening
- No PB plumbing
- Old fashioned gas and forced air heating
- Plywood sheathing, plywood subfloors, etc
- Sufficient concrete between floors and suites
- Since the economy was slow, there was probably time to do the construction right

What is this sheet and where can I get it?!

Poly B was used up to 95 so that would be the biggest issue. No question from the 90's to 2000's its going to be more decent but I have seen lots of shitty jobs with those years since a lot of the newer builds were getting pieced together like Lego.

My house was built in 71 and everything is well constructed, no Asbestos, copper plumbing, copper electrical, old growth trees used for the frame and exterior wall. Those were the houses that were made right but need renos now due to the age.

Worst part for that year of course is the single ain alum windows.

Here's a link to my google drive:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0e...ew?usp=sharing

Mr.HappySilp - Likely depending on what day it's being done up to 5 people including myself. My brother in law being the major expert as he builds houses and does all the trades for a living. Then my father in law and possibly also father plus myself as the mid level guys and the wife for the super picky and complain about everything person. I think we're covered lol.

I figured stuff from the 1960s and 1970s would be pretty decent too, aside from aluminium electrical and possible asbestos. Old tech windows are a relatively minor annoyance compared to old electrical, plumbing, or asbestos.

Good to know for our next home purchase.

Winson thanks for uploading it again I've been meaning to for a while now lol

and thank you for putting in the work and creating it in the first place!

Whats wrong with pb plumbing? Supposed to be better than copper.

whats wrong with PB plumbing ?! Do you know what it is at all ?! if you see grey coloured plastic pipe you better hope it doesn't explode any time soon. People spend thousands of dollars to replace those out of their homes.