This last New Year's Eve over 1,000 cars were burned in one night!


During a 3 week period in 2005, 8,800 cars were lit on fire.


8,800 cars!


France is over double Canada's population, taking that into account can you list any riots in Canada that have come close to that level of extended mayhem?

You took my post a lot more seriously than I expected anyone would. I'd like to live in europe based on the density of world class cities for at least some portion of my life though. Wether it be france/germany/wherever, however I doubt I plan on buying one of those estates. Its just a funny comparison, and although it is unreasonable, its an extreme that still does kinda prove a point, ya know?

why are your posts always so full of negativity and so full of yourself..??
e.g. you tell people you are leaving then you go on and say people don't leave here because they are weak and lame and they can't leave their comfort zone, or they aren't educated or skilled enough to get a job in a foreign countries...
(basically implying you are educated, skilled, brave, man of action, not lame like the rest of the vancouvrites)

If you don't like the party, just leave. There is no need to keep saying this party sucks while you were there, and then say everyone who stays at this party is lame when you decide to leave



back to topic:
One of the best thing about Canada in general is cultural diversity & tolerance. (Especially true in Vancouver & Toronto)
Most European countries aren't particular fond of immigrants and foreign cultures (kinda like Quebec, but much worse)
I guess it doesn't matter if you are white and you speak their language, but it is definitely much harder for other ethnicities (black, asian, latinos..etc) to live there

I do actually miss having the banned couple around in this thread though as they always provided a skeptical perspective that wasn't loaded with negativity.

But I get where 4444 is coming from to a certain extent - if I was king of the castle back home and didn't get the same treatment in Vancouver, I'd be bitter too. People do well in Vancouver, but it is an insular business community that is not receptive to outsiders.
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i was merely responding to a comment that "Vancouver is so great - ppl talk about leaving but don't because it's so great." whereas the reality is that most people don't leave because they either can't or purely won't - i fully respect that people don't want to leave, not everyone wants a high flying career if they have to sacrifice for it, family is more important to many. I really do get that.

sometimes its because ppl are weak, sometimes its just their situation, for better or worse, people do what they will. Just because i'm leaving doesn't mean i'm better than anyone else, its mean i am making a decision to sacrifice being with my immediate family for my career whilst i'm young and not married.

and your views on europe aren't quite right. some cities are truly multi cultural, that is, over 50% of the people in a city are from outside of that country, however it's not like vancouver where we have 3 main sources of immigration, China, India, Phillipines - we're not 'multicultural' we're tri cultural as these three so far outweigh the other immigrant groups that you can't really call it multi cultural. Toronto is more multicultural than Vancouver as their immigrant groups are big enough to be more visible and diverse.

now, the issues you speak of are there, but you can't just use one brush to paint the whole continent. The majority of the problem is religious in nature - France especially has a huge volume of muslim immigrants from North Africa, that has caused issues which haven't been necessarily dealt with very well (namely the banning of head scarfs of different types in France). Germany has had a huge influx of Turks, which has caused issues. England has had a huge influx of Eastern Europeans, and pretty much everyone else too (Luton, north of London has become a hub for Muslims, to the point where entire blocks of streets are just muslims, there are many extremists there who rally for England to be under Sharia law - really fucked up). All three of these countries have had their leaders come out and say that multicultural countries do not work (this is a fact, google it, all three said it) and that the volume of immigration over recent years has not worked out as planned. one huge reason for that is that europe has effectively become a social welfare state, and immigrants from poor countries go there and get huge, relatively speaking, hand outs.

there are definitely issues, but there are also MASSIVE opportunities in a number of large european cities to advance your career, lifestyle, and happiness in life, all the while avoiding and evading these issues that are a plight of the European people.

heed my warning, the Canadian economy is slowing down, there are loads of job losses across Canada, Vancouver's economy is stagnant - if you have an opportunity to live in another country, do it while you're young and before you have kids. Vancouver is a great place to raise kids, no doubt about it (if you can afford to live here), but for career growth, it mings.

and for me, i've given this city a lot of my time, i've tried to make it work here, but opportunities in cities very similar to Vancouver (climate wise, and diverse in its people) are so much better that i can't help but feel that people are cutting off their nose in spite of their faces by staying here.

I also have to say that Vancouver is a worse city than it was in the 90's when i immigrated to Canada - the city has changed, the people have changed, i can't put my finger on it but the feeling is not just mine on this matter. i'm looking forward to Canada being a leader again, i think our politicians have sold us short, and that we are about to go through a decade of stagnation that will be difficult to weather, all because our governments kicked the 2008 financial crisis can down the road.

i look forward to Canada being a strong economy again, but it will likely be at least a decade away, i just hope in that time we can get some decent politicians in place both provincially and federally, though i don't hold my breath for that here or anywhere in teh world.

and, to tie it to this thread, which now sucks, real housing prices will be lower in 10 years than they are today

just to clarify, i'm an insider in this small business community (what you say is VERY true) - the problem for me is that we are hugely underpaid in this city, and opportunities are very limited here.

but you're completely right, tiny business community that is very inbred

The export of natural resources will be our saviour as long as people in the world continue to buy things. It's short-sighted in the long-term, but gotta strike while the iron is hot.

It's been known for decades that Vancouver is a place where careers go to die. People have always sacrificed salary for quality of life.

Name some. San Franciso? Singapore? Melbourne? Buenos Aires? Santiago?
Mumbai?

IMHO, we get the politicians we deserve. In general, people have become more insular over the last 20 years. I doubt that this trend is exclusive to Vancouver, Canada, or the developed world for that matter.
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I think the banned couple brought more negativity in this thread than 4444.
4444 does bring in some figures to back himself up. The others were two people sitting side by side, posting in the same thread on some web forum, waiting for one to post, then the other. Interacting with their online personas when they should be interacting with each other. If that is what romance is... count me out. :inout:

This thread isn't going downhill because they are gone. Its only going downhill in the eyes of those who final realize the masses are not buying into the whole bubble/market crash idea.

I would call this thread stagnant right now. There is the group that wants the crash, and the group that says a crash won't happen. With the way out economy is right now, and the direction we could be heading, it seems like both groups are right. Thus, this has just turned into a "Vancouver sucks" thread.


I'm off to the grocery store. I need some more cheese with my whine... :\

I work on the internet!


Great!!! :)

totally depends on your vocation.

for me, it's mainland europe, so many of my friends are now in London (Vancouver friends, not my english friends, though they are there too).

san fran is an easy job to be had - just drive down there and you will get a good job guaranteed. I could even continue onto LA and get a good job. a lot of ppl i know are now in Seattle.

New York is a big one. i would say singapore, though they have just made it harder to immigrate there - but if you've got the skills they want, it;s a go.

some engineer friends have gone to Malaysia, another just moved to HK.

Texas is another big draw for business professionals and engineers alike.

so, similar to you, just thinking of a bunch of ppl i know, i've hit a bunch of continents with places where people are choosing to go to grow their career.

IMHO, I think Van's RE is overpriced from an investment perspective.

As an investment, you look at cap rates and future growth. With GVR's price near record high, I wouldn't count much more growth over inflation without a correction.

Then at cap rate, GVR has SHIT caps... let me say it again... absolutely SHIT. It's pretty much impossible to buy a cash flow positive property in GVR at current prices. Even with our record low interest rate.

For home buying it's a totally different topic. If you love GVR and feel to set your root down in the city, any time is a good time to buy as long as you can afford it.

But from an investment perspective, it's absolutely crap.

Most in this industry (commercial, office etc) are saying that yields are way too low and it's becoming way too risky to hold these investments. You see a lot of the big players like pension funds and Sears selling off their real estate assets right now (because they are at all time highs). cap rates are like 3-5% and even lower for multi-family buildings.

that's way too low of a yield to hold real estate with downside risks. you can invest in higher yield bonds and other safer assets - ie. opportunity costs.

The only people that are buying are developers because they can buy the land, develop it and build residential towers and sell that for $600/ square feet. But many are concern theres too much supply right now.

Hey guize, do you think real estate is priced well enough to buy? My friend said its a great time to buy! He said to come see him at his realtor office. Hes such a good friend!

I can't remember where i saw or heard it, but some "expert" said the Sears sell off might have more to do with their long term plan than the state of the current Vancouver RE.
His reasoning was that Sears was offering quite a bit of dividends to share holders and in his opinion, they might be downsizing and heading to a different direction.

If we sell ICBC selling off property from their portfolio, then that means they have lost faith in our RE.

I'm not seeing that in construction and I'm not talking about homes or condos. Commercial construction, non tower related is ramping up and hasn't been busier since before the Olympic boom. Labour prices, material prices and contracts all on the rise.

There is more work then we can bid and for what we do we probably have the largest estimating team in western Canada. I'm not saying this is the end all be all for judging what's happening in the Canadian economy but all I've experienced in the last year and a half is things moving forward not slowing down. Maybe they'll shift who knows but right now it's not the case.

^ Low interest environment spurs development.

Sears example is irrelevant because I believe they NNN lease the majority of their stores.

What's interesting to pay attention to is the fall of REIT shares.

I'm gonna side with 4444 on this,

The margins for hard dollar bids on industrial construction projects have been grinding down for a while now, it's to the point that some of our vendors don't even want to bid cause they are sick of losing to low ballers... and trust me, the prices I'm seeing are waaayyy too low.:nyan:

In addition to the above, people I know, who work in the same area of the industry as me, are having issues landing work because there seems to be a lot of downward pressure on pay rates... too much competition. These aren't labourers or tradespeople, these are CMs, PMs, engineers, inspectors, etc.:nyan:

The most logical explanation is simply a matter of not enough work to go around. Canada is a resource based economy, when the industries nearest to the resources are being affected, all industries are affected.:nyan:

I'm not saying that tomorrow the world is going to fall apart, but within the next 6-12 months I think we will see some disappointing unemployment numbers start to come out.:nyan:

What do the Nyancats have to do with the economy???

... Nyancats have EVERYTHING not to do with the economy!!!!

:nyan::nyan::nyan::nyan::nyan::nyan::nyan::nyan:

my opinion on REITs is that they are a cashflow play, that is, their dividends. Given that any REIT worth investing in owns the best quality commercial real estate, there won't be any significant changes in their cashflows.

REITs will get temporarily hurt as interest rates rise, no question, as their real return will decrease, however these are usually temporary in nature as in the long term decent REITs should be able to weather the storms and provide a relatively stable real rate of return.

Now, having said that, i don't think one should own REITs as more than just a small part of their income generating equities... but they are nice to own in the long term (top quality ones, that is)

Overseas buyers dominate Vancouver retail real-estate purchases | Real Estate and Development | Business in Vancouver

Overseas buyers dominate Vancouver retail real-estate purchases

I can attest to this, dont know if it's as high as 60% or if they are actually foreign, but the money is definitely foreign. As in the money used to buy it definitely came from overseas.

they are a large market segment in properties over $1 million for sure.

as a caveat to the above post, I dont think foreign money plays that big a role into the rise in vancouver RE.

personally I think the main factors are cheap debt, speculation, and easy lending practices, and last but not least "house hornyness".

i think the tell is mortgages.

how many houses are bought in cash in vancouver -many, yes, but as a percentage, a very low percent.

if it is truly foreign money, it will be a cash deal, if there is someone living and working here, it will be a mortgage financed acquisition.

as you say, lax lending, cheapo money = stupidity of today in vancouver

Truth is, foreign money only accounts for very little in all the transactions in our real estate market. Most of time, foreign buyer with cash purchases are only interested in top luxurious homes, not the 500k condo segments.

Maybe for your circle of friends and family that drives $500k cars. But they are many foreigners who are not as rich as the people you know who are buying the 500k condos and driving $50k Mercedes.
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Just thinking out loud here, but how come we don't see this type of RE market in other smaller Canadian cities. Or do we, and the media is just not talking about it.
I know Vancouver is number 2 behind Toronto in the number of buildings being built.

dunno why foreigners would invest in this overpriced market