Vancouver's Real Estate Market

[kr4l]

Originally Posted by hud 91gt

kr4l. Your opinion has some merit. It stems along the lines of "tough love" when growing up, or the philosophy of "keep your head down and work a little harder". These were real in my upbringing. It is great for personal gain. You will get ahead of the crowds around you but it does nothing for the greater good of people.

Bitching will change policy. Sucking it up and working a little harder will not.

There will always be people bitching. Some of it legitimate, some of it not. .ut when an entire generation is bitching about the same thing (A recent poll stated 89% of ~20-35year olds feel regulation needs to be made) i'd say something is fucked up and working a little harder is not the answer.

Honestly, I'm a fucking asshole and I know it. I wasn't always an asshole. I just learnt that being nice really gets you no where.

It's true, it's like tough love. I was raised on it. I'm also ignorant as fuck so I believe what I believe until the death of me. It's terrible. Blame my dad for that one

I also have a culinary background and have tonnes of respect for @westopher. I know that life as I've been through that before and it's not easy nor is it paid enough.

Back on topic, housing prices aren't going to drop. Keep dreaming

[yray]

Originally Posted by hud 91gt

kr4l. Your opinion has some merit. It stems along the lines of "tough love" when growing up, or the philosophy of "keep your head down and work a little harder". These were real in my upbringing. It is great for personal gain. You will get ahead of the crowds around you but it does nothing for the greater good of people.

Bitching will change policy. Sucking it up and working a little harder will not.

There will always be people bitching. Some of it legitimate, some of it not. .ut when an entire generation is bitching about the same thing (A recent poll stated 89% of ~20-35year olds feel regulation needs to be made) i'd say something is fucked up and working a little harder is not the answer.

I did work harder... 12 hours day

Got an extra job for 4 months. Made 3k before tax, 2.2k after tax and union... gov't wanted extra 1k back taxes in april.

[Digitalis]

Yep now that BC leads canada in job growth lets put a stop to that right away. Gotta teach them foreign investors a lesson for spurring BC to the top.

[westopher]

Yeah 11 dollar an hour job growth for all the people working in luxury retail clothing stores.

[UFO]

Originally Posted by westopher

The average household income is 67k.
Are you saying that its a reasonable salary to afford a 400k home? Because as I just explained.....its not.

Yes, I think 67k can buy you a 400k home; I think your numbers or sources need a bit of reviewing but you are right, sacrifices do need to be made. You don't have to buy in as soon as you meet the bare minimum down payment, you don't buy in when you have zero personal contingency funds, and you don't buy when every last dollar is accounted for in your budget.

people are complaining about extreme examples but that's all everyone is throwing around in here to make their points. You guys make it seem like downtown Whalley is the only place to buy under 300k, or every preowned home is a dilapidated money pit; the only safe option is to buy brand new Bosa built and shiny

[UFO]

Originally Posted by hud 91gt

Bitching will change policy. Sucking it up and working a little harder will not.

I'm curious what change in policy you feel will help manage this problem without detriment to basically everything else? And who will make this change in policy?

.ut when an entire generation is bitching about the same thing (A recent poll stated 89% of ~20-35year olds feel regulation needs to be made) i'd say something is fucked up and working a little harder is not the answer.

You don't have to work harder, just don't expect as much. But then I'm being unreasonable aren't I
A weird demographic range to target, no? couldn't possibly have been manipulated to create a more striking number to stir a bigger headline, could it? I wonder what the number would be if the same poll was run in include those 35-65. Because last I checked its not just 20-35 year olds that need a roof over their heads.

[UFO]

Originally Posted by westopher

Yeah 11 dollar an hour job growth for all the people working in luxury retail clothing stores.

Sure, let's ignore the increasingly growing tech industry here, dare I call it a boom. Let's ignore the shortage of commercial property in the city. Because as some people have claimed, Vancouver is so expensive that all of the smart people are moving away and only rich playboys and there servants will be left living here.

This is a fairly neutral and informative article, to be read with a grain of salt obviously like everything else http://www.cantechletter.com/2016/02...prices-higher/

[hud 91gt]

Originally Posted by UFO

I'm curious what change in policy you feel will help manage this problem without detriment to basically everything else? And who will make this change in policy?


You don't have to work harder, just don't expect as much. But then I'm being unreasonable aren't I
A weird demographic range to target, no? couldn't possibly have been manipulated to create a more striking number to stir a bigger headline, could it? I wonder what the number would be if the same poll was run in include those 35-65. Because last I checked its not just 20-35 year olds that need a roof over their heads.

I'll be the first to say i'm not the most educated in economics, but I do have a level head on my shoulders and generally speaking I am able to make level headed decisions taking in all aspects that I see fit. What regulation? I don't know. That's not my job. But someone out there has that job. If i'm required to vote on said regulations i'll certainly put in my part.

I actually think that demographic is the best way to see how messed up the situation is. Using a demographic of 35-60 would certainly sway the outcome. The demographic of 20-35 does not have many outside influences pertaining to just housing costs. The 35-60 crowd does. They have "Imaginary" money tied up into their houses for which they do not want to lose. I for one own property. I still think it's messed up and we need a change. Just because I came upon a good chunk of cash over the years due to ridiculous housing prices does not mean i'm afraid to lose it either. Easy come, easy go.

[westopher]

The servants won't live here either.

[G]

I have yet to hear any idea/policy from anyone where it fixes this problem. Have you guys? I am actually interested in hearing them :P

[hud 91gt]

In my mind taxing outside influences makes sense to me. But as I said, I'm not well educated in this regard. If it is foreign buyers heating up the market, taxing them should slow the impact. If it doesn't, at least Canadian's get some money out of it. If it is us Canadians who are making it hell on our own? Well, they next financial downturn will fix that up quite quickly.

What are the cons of taxing foreign money? Honestly, i'd like to know.

[westopher]

Originally Posted by G

I have yet to hear any idea/policy from anyone where it fixes this problem. Have you guys? I am actually interested in hearing them :P

I can't tell if you are being serious?
If you are, I suggest you re-read about every second post that mentions massive taxes on foreign ownership and investment properties.

[GLOW]

Originally Posted by westopher

Yeah 11 dollar an hour job growth for all the people working in luxury retail clothing stores.

so pessimistic...you forgot to mention baristas

Originally Posted by UFO

Sure, let's ignore the increasingly growing tech industry here, dare I call it a boom.

our tech industry (i suppose same can be said for anything else) rides waves of highs and lows, almost cyclic...when there's a low you see things like massive EA and nokia layoffs...i haven't had my ear on the street as in the past (left this industry due to instability) but i feel the tech industry has shifted a bit from electronic/manufacturing to that of software/mobile development (as noted in your article). when we get the lows there's more people than jobs and they either move, change industries or if lucky enough endure until new jobs are available (or take a lower job). latter is not easy if you're in the local RE market

[Gululu]

Vancouver mayor Gregor Robertson and his rock star girlfriend Wanting Qu leave the Men's International Rugby match between Canada and Japan at BC Place on June 11, 2016 in Vancouver, Canada. Japan won 26-22.

[GS8]

So if I understand the basic theme...

Wage slave + House poor (due to massively over-inflated land values) = Vancouver living? Sounds fucking glamorous

[yray]

Originally Posted by Gululu

she needs some botox on those jaws

[Z3guy]

^ that's like saying you can buff that out.....

[Digitalis]

Yes because somehow clothing stores will turn into houses which people are paying top dollar for.

Originally Posted by westopher

Yeah 11 dollar an hour job growth for all the people working in luxury retail clothing stores.

[Tapioca]

If the average family income is 67K, then I guess what people want is a conventional detached Vancouver special-style house with a basement suite north of the Fraser River for 400K.

No combination of foreign resident or speculation taxes will ever lower values for detached homes to this price range. The ship has sailed, unfortunately. The only way houses reach these lows again is an external event which causes hundreds of thousands of people to leave Metro Vancouver. There are very fewer and fewer detached lots in Metro Vancouver every year. People want land and there's less of it to go around.

I think the decision-makers realize it's FUBAR - there's no way to solve this crisis without hurting someone or some group of people in the process. It's something I've laid out previously in this thread in terms of the dynamics at play.

[UFO]

Originally Posted by westopher

I can't tell if you are being serious?
If you are, I suggest you re-read about every second post that mentions massive taxes on foreign ownership and investment properties.

Massive taxes like the 1-2% number being proposed on absentee owners? Not sure about you, but not entirely convinced that will make a lick of difference. Anyways saavy investors will find a loophole or skirt around whatever tax regulation, you can count on that.

Personally I feel we should be more mad at these multi zillionaires collecting welfare cheques, free MSP, and subsizidized social services using these precious scarce resources up from those who really need them. Now THAT is an actual problem, but not cool enough to make the headlines.

Tax investment properties one and all? Well that's also an additional tax on MANY locals. That's like saying since you own 2 cars, you should pay double the insurance so other people can also afford to buy a car. Crappy analogy, but you get my point I hope

[noclue]

Rant about foreign buyers but try raising the interest rate to 5% overnight and you'll see more of a hit to real estate than implementing some foreigner tax.

[westopher]

Originally Posted by UFO

Massive taxes like the 1-2% number being proposed on absentee owners? Not sure about you, but not entirely convinced that will make a lick of difference. Anyways saavy investors will find a loophole or skirt around whatever tax regulation, you can count on that.

Personally I feel we should be more mad at these multi zillionaires collecting welfare cheques, free MSP, and subsizidized social services using these precious scarce resources up from those who really need them. Now THAT is an actual problem, but not cool enough to make the headlines.

Tax investment properties one and all? Well that's also an additional tax on MANY locals. That's like saying since you own 2 cars, you should pay double the insurance so other people can also afford to buy a car. Crappy analogy, but you get my point I hope

I'm not asking for a 1-2% tax on absentee owners. I think the tax should be 100%. Hell tax them 1000%. As far as I'm concerned if the problem is this large, they shouldn't be able to purchase, period.
If a canadian citizen can't purchase a home, then someone who is a non canadian citizen is allowed to buy it as an investment, gouge the shit out of them or simply don't allow them. If you can't live here, why the hell should you own a house here?
I do get your point, but as I've said before, people need homes more than they need cars. If thats what it takes, so be it.
Why does someone deserve to live in Vancouver I'm sure is the question that pops up?
Well, it takes many people to make a city great, and they come from all socioeconomic backgrounds.
They deserve to be a part of it a lot more than someone who is making 5 million dollars because they had a spare 5 million dollars, and then uses that 10 million to make another 10 million, then their kid uses that 20 million to make another 20 million.
All real estate investment is, is just old money multiplying to the families of the old money.
I do strongly agree with your point about social services.

[westopher]

Also. Zing!

[kr4l]

Originally Posted by noclue

Rant about foreign buyers but try raising the interest rate to 5% overnight and you'll see more of a hit to real estate than implementing some foreigner tax.

Won't raising interest rates hit our local buyers more than foreign buyers? If you can't afford a million dollar place with our low interest rate, what makes you think you can afford it at half the price with double or triple the interest rate?

A way to fix the problem is what westopher suggested, tax investments and vacant homes hard. However, locals that worked hard and made smart investments wouldn't like that very much

[westopher]

One could argue that if anyone in the market were "smart" investors, they'd be unloading after housing prices climbed 30% in less than a year.
What you have is a bunch of potentially lucky people sitting on a theory that they just made millions.