Experts suggest charging Metro Vancouver drivers to cross city boundaries

[yray]

^aka. Privatization of buses, skytrain and other transportation modes. Roads goes to Metro Vancouver instead. Once the employees realize they are no longer public servants, they will start to man the fuck up and actually do shit.

[Drow]

how bout use the money they used to set up all those gay ass gates to fund their stupid shit instead?

[yray]

^it's costing them 20mil to get back 9mil; they should have installed from the beginning at Canada line instead of refitting every mother fucking station. It's gonna be a gongshow with the fare gates during rush hour, people will start breaking them sooner or later.

[some_punk]

Originally Posted by Lomac

Okay, so now that the initial shock has worn off for us, there are a couple things to keep in mind. First off, these are just suggestions. There were probably many more but these were the ones the media chose to run with in their stories. Also, Translink isn't just transit... they maintain our bridges and roads... y'know, the ones that we drive on every day.
Posted via RS Mobile

But if you look at your insurance papers, in back pages, part of it goes to road safety including enhanced law enforcement. so we are already paying them in one way

[CRXED9]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned that the government is paying people to find ways of saving money. They pay millions of dollars for these people to say you can save here and here, but never will they say save your money and not hire us.

[Tapioca]

Originally Posted by yray

^aka. Privatization of buses, skytrain and other transportation modes. Roads goes to Metro Vancouver instead. Once the employees realize they are no longer public servants, they will start to man the fuck up and actually do shit.

Companies are out there to make a profit and not to give out charity. I'm on a Skytrain line, so I'll be fine, but what about those poor souls out in the boonies? Bus service will be cut for them. Too bad, so sad I suppose.

A fine example of private-public partnerships is the Canada Line which is already at capacity and uses inferior technology compared to regular Skytrain.

Dismantle Translink. Bring back BC Transit to take care of buses and skytrain; if they don't have enough money, at least their lack of money won't affect everything else. Set up several other corporations to maintain each part of the infrastructure. One for roads and bridges, building & maintenance. Let the CRA, or set up a provincial branch of it to control and regulate taxes and such; The parking tax is fucking absurd. And all of this should be managed by a responsible and transparent government who can instill confidence in the public that they are working towards to the good of the province/people.

Translink is just an umbrella organization. There already are subsidiaries running the various components of the system:

BC Rapid Transit Corporation - Skytrain
Coast Mountain Bus Company - Buses
West Vancouver Blue Bus - West Van buses
SNC-Lavalin/InTransitBC - Canada Line

The audit showed that BC Transit spends more on a per-capita basis than Translink, so the efficiency argument is moot. You know why people look back fondly on BC Transit? Because the provincial governments consistently ran deficits in the 1980s and 1990s. Plus you had a strongman, the Zalm, who was able to ram things through. Translink cannot run deficits, so that's why you have them begging for more money.

Transparency is a buzzword that's thrown around a lot. It's rather meaningless if people don't actually bother to read what's out there (e.g. the audit that was posted in the other thread probably answers over half of the rants here), or rely on hearsay. 30% of people vote in municipal elections and 50% vote in provincial elections. You want a say? Vote the next time around. Attend a community information meeting that Translink regularly hosts. Tweet your MLA, or tweet the damn premier.

[dlo]

they can go fuck themselves, i already pay enough tuition to go to school but to pay more to get to school? fuck urself

[Marco911]

Here's a bright idea? How about charging transit riders to real cost of transit? What's the incentives to keep transit costs down?

[yray]

Originally Posted by Tapioca

Companies are out there to make a profit and not to give out charity. I'm on a Skytrain line, so I'll be fine, but what about those poor souls out in the boonies? Bus service will be cut for them. Too bad, so sad I suppose.

A fine example of private-public partnerships is the Canada Line which is already at capacity and uses inferior technology compared to regular Skytrain.

People out there are still getting fucked over and will get more fucked when bus cutting rolls in the door. Having a company bid for these routes is actually not a bad idea, if a company is willing to bid on the route than they are sure they could make some type of profit. If done properly and regulated, it could provide much more leeway for Translink to survive. If theres no business case, don't run the fucking thing.


3Ps are used for running the system and look at it... it runs way better than all the other lines. At least there's staff at each station that can do shit in an emergency. Designing the platforms and such are still part of Translink's responsibility, if they made the platforms longer, it's was going to cost more so they were we will just make min spec and upgrade later. An example of 3Ps not working is Golden Ears Bridge, 3Ps worked exactly as planned on the Canada line.


So you think a train with a comp and a DC motor based off a world wide used hyundai rolling stalk design is inferior? Do you want a kawasaki rolling stalk with VVVF Siemens motor inside it that would cost shitloads more but can carry 1500 people at once? A maglav? An airtrain?

[westopher]

WHERE THE FUCK IS THE LOGIC HERE. Should I start paying taxes for unsuccessful restaurants because I'm eating at home?

[saveth]

Here's the plan...lets tax everyone that drives, which will result in people leaving this province. The people still driving in this province will have to pay more tax because all the people leaving have created a shortfall. Repeat.

[CharlesInCharge]

Dont our great dams electrically power many of the busy buses and the skytrain?
Its suppose to be cheaper then using gas so where is all the user fees going, new concrete and maintenance?
All those little toonies adds up! and who counts how much money is put into those slot machines anyway? Thats right, a private company.
We should all write off our cars on wet slippery hill roads for cash handouts to buy new cars, we deserve that much.

[mercyboy]

Living here is just too much now.....

B.C

B-ring
.
C-ash!!!!

[Tapioca]

Originally Posted by yray

People out there are still getting fucked over and will get more fucked when bus cutting rolls in the door. Having a company bid for these routes is actually not a bad idea, if a company is willing to bid on the route than they are sure they could make some type of profit. If done properly and regulated, it could provide much more leeway for Translink to survive. If theres no business case, don't run the fucking thing.

The trouble is that there are few routes that offer a full cost recovery save the B-Lines. Translink already runs a community shuttle service for lower demand routes with non-unionized drivers (who make less than 20/hour), a smaller fleet, and at reduced schedules.

If people can stomach no-service to certain areas of Metro Vancouver, then let's make some cuts. Unfortunately, people will complain. And isn't the purpose of public transit to "serve the public"?

3Ps are used for running the system and look at it... it runs way better than all the other lines. At least there's staff at each station that can do shit in an emergency. Designing the platforms and such are still part of Translink's responsibility, if they made the platforms longer, it's was going to cost more so they were we will just make min spec and upgrade later. An example of 3Ps not working is Golden Ears Bridge, 3Ps worked exactly as planned on the Canada line.

The RFP was poorly designed. Cut-and-cover construction (should been bored all the way from Marine Drive) and of course the other things you mentioned. The company is doing a fine job of running it, but I don't think their level of service is above that of Skytrain (and I ride Skytrain every day.)

So you think a train with a comp and a DC motor based off a world wide used hyundai rolling stalk design is inferior? Do you want a kawasaki rolling stalk with VVVF Siemens motor inside it that would cost shitloads more but can carry 1500 people at once? A maglav? An airtrain?

No, I would have been perfectly happy with the same technology that Skytrain uses. Linear induction technology capable of higher speeds and less wear and tear over time.

[dark0821]

Now that we are thru with how stupid this idea sounds...

I just want to post something about our "public sector servants" from my first hand experience....

I signed a contract for WorkSafeBC back in dec of 2010 for 37 new stop signs for their parking lot. Now for this deal to get the green light, it was back and forth for about 40 emails with like 7 different people. The first thing that hit me was... this is our tax dollar at work.... they need 7 people to decide if they needed new stop signs for their staff parking lot. I dont care if all 7 of their employee are getting paid average wages, that to me just seems ridiculous.
The deal was signed in Dec of 2010, I did not get the deposit until Mar of 2011, the signs were delivered by the end of Mar. Now WCB has to decide if they wanted our installer to install their signs for them... here we go again.... after another 40 emails between 7 different people. The signs were finally installed by us by Nov of 2011.

Yes, our public servants, or workers at the public sectors might not be getting outrageous compensation. BUT, if this is their efficiency, then how can you say that our tax money is not being wasted.

Again, this is my first hand experience. I dont mind seeing my tax money going towards the police officer that is patrolling the streets at 3AM... but everytime someone brings up the argument that our public workers are not getting "overpaid" just sounds stupid to me.

If there was a way to calculate work progress to compensation, the people i dealt with at worksafe would probably make more than me EVEN if they were paid minimum wage....

//end rant =P

[rsx]

Slash wages for these clowns. Did anyone get axed during the whole Richmond Middle-bus-lane fiasco?

[dinosaur]

I find it sad that for someone like me who was born and raised in the Lower Mainland, it is getting harder and harder to stay...let alone grow old/retire here.

[optiblue]

Shoot, I have a feeling that I may need to take the bus soon
Posted via RS Mobile

[Great68]

Originally Posted by rsx

Slash wages for these clowns. Did anyone get axed during the whole Richmond Middle-bus-lane fiasco?

You can think those middle bus lanes were a waste of money, but at that time there was NO chance or commitment from the province for rapid transit. Translink needed to improve bus service to downtown, so they went with what they could.

Let's be honest, The only real reason the politicians committed to building rapid transit between Richmond and Vancouver is because of the olympics.

If anything, blame the politicians.

[smarv]

Fat cats line their pockets while the average person struggles to pay, as others were saying moving is an option their starting to consider, lately ive been thinking the same thing not only are the taxes ridicules but the overall cost of living here sucks,IE; tax, gas, insurance, housing. If i were to move out it would be to las vegas a brand new 1bed and bathroom apartment there costs an average of $30,000(here that wont even get you a bathroom) the only problem would be finding a job, if i could find a a guaranteed job even at $10/hour i would start up my car tonight.

[Everymans]

I know this is a car forum and all, but soon or later we will need to realize that driving in this city is becoming far more inconvenient by the day. We are the most congested city in canada and the second in north america. WE'RE MORE CONGESTED THEN GOD DAMN MEXICO CITY. I don't get to see this because I never drive during rush hour so I don;t particularly agree with this. I've driven around this city a number of times and I'm not going to lie, it was planned by a group of mentally disable elk, running around clueless as to what the future might hold for this city. Making highways residental streets and succumbing to hippie protesters and folding ideas for more highways. And now with this cities incredibly over inflated real estate market it is next to impossible for the city to build any of our streets wider without having heavy price tags attached(Imagine destroying every house on knight street to make it a proper trucking route. Just destroying the houses alone would cost a couple hundred million).

What I'm trying to get at is that this cities transportational infrastructure has been completely destroyed by poor planning from past generations. And it unfortunately cannot be easily replaced. What we do as citizens of this over priced city is accept a different idea of how to travel. Now I love my car, I'll never let it go. But there needs to be other options other then dealing with bumper to bumper traffic and burning up fumes into the atmosphere. Once this city expands to it;s expected 3-4 million population this city will not be able to handle it without these taxations and a heavy reliance on transit traffic. Imagine surrey having 2 million people and half of those people driving to some other city to work? All of this congestion is going to keep happening unless an influence is made to deal with it. I work in the same city as I work, this needs to be the new alternative for all of us.

In the end translink is making driving so inconvenient for you the drivers so you can open up to the option of taking the bus or train, which in the future will be far more convenient then driving from surrey to downtown. One thing that might be a major backlash of this possible cross territorial fee is the more closer city territories that could see a substantial reduction in tourism or in commercial growth or sales. I'd hope that if they made these types of regulations they'd make then more regional instead of citywide. Something like port moody-coquitlum-poco. vancouver-burnaby-new west, surrey-langley-white rock. Hell I'd rage if I lived in deep cove and worked in west van and would have to pay a god damn fee to cross those borders. The bus takes like 2 hours!

You're welcome to fail me, I could care less.

[spyker]

^
I deicded to thank you instead.

[jackal]

i just want to reiterate the simple question of:

Why are we not charging riders at least close to what is ACTUALLY costing to run the transit systems?

why do fares need to be so heavily subsidized?
transit fares, by percentage are one of the highest subsidized things in bc.

and finally why the fuck are we not stopping the fare evasion? i would be happier hiring 50 transit police to ride buses along the broadway corridor. even if it meant it was a break even proposition where it cost the same amount to hire the people as it did bring in extra revenues from fines and added fares, at least we created some jobs...


edit: also i have no issue paying a little more property tax if it mean IMPROVING or ADDING to current infrastructure. like a new skytrain system. but it drives me fucking nuts to be paying to OPERATE the current system. the system needs to be close to self sufficient otherwise fuck off and leave my money alone.

[MindBomber]

Originally Posted by jackal

i just want to reiterate the simple question of:

Why are we not charging riders at least close to what is ACTUALLY costing to run the transit systems?

why do fares need to be so heavily subsidized?
transit fares, by percentage are one of the highest subsidized things in bc.

Do you have a source showing by what percentage transit fares are subsidized?

Second Edit:

I found Translink's operational figures for 2011 and did the math, it's operating at roughly 55% efficiency.

http://www.translink.ca/~/media/docu...orts/2011.ashx

Edit:

According to Wikipedia, Vancouver is the 12th most efficient of the 48 cities listed in terms of farebox recovery (percentage of operating costs covered by fares). Revenue such as advertising is not accounted for in this model. I'd say that's pretty impressive, given that we're beat out by cities like Berlin and New York with much higher population densities.

[Yodamaster]

Originally Posted by Everymans

I know this is a car forum and all, but soon or later we will need to realize that driving in this city is becoming far more inconvenient by the day. We are the most congested city in canada and the second in north america. WE'RE MORE CONGESTED THEN GOD DAMN MEXICO CITY. I don't get to see this because I never drive during rush hour so I don;t particularly agree with this. I've driven around this city a number of times and I'm not going to lie, it was planned by a group of mentally disable elk, running around clueless as to what the future might hold for this city. Making highways residental streets and succumbing to hippie protesters and folding ideas for more highways. And now with this cities incredibly over inflated real estate market it is next to impossible for the city to build any of our streets wider without having heavy price tags attached(Imagine destroying every house on knight street to make it a proper trucking route. Just destroying the houses alone would cost a couple hundred million).

What I'm trying to get at is that this cities transportational infrastructure has been completely destroyed by poor planning from past generations. And it unfortunately cannot be easily replaced. What we do as citizens of this over priced city is accept a different idea of how to travel. Now I love my car, I'll never let it go. But there needs to be other options other then dealing with bumper to bumper traffic and burning up fumes into the atmosphere. Once this city expands to it;s expected 3-4 million population this city will not be able to handle it without these taxations and a heavy reliance on transit traffic. Imagine surrey having 2 million people and half of those people driving to some other city to work? All of this congestion is going to keep happening unless an influence is made to deal with it. I work in the same city as I work, this needs to be the new alternative for all of us.

In the end translink is making driving so inconvenient for you the drivers so you can open up to the option of taking the bus or train, which in the future will be far more convenient then driving from surrey to downtown. One thing that might be a major backlash of this possible cross territorial fee is the more closer city territories that could see a substantial reduction in tourism or in commercial growth or sales. I'd hope that if they made these types of regulations they'd make then more regional instead of citywide. Something like port moody-coquitlum-poco. vancouver-burnaby-new west, surrey-langley-white rock. Hell I'd rage if I lived in deep cove and worked in west van and would have to pay a god damn fee to cross those borders. The bus takes like 2 hours!

You're welcome to fail me, I could care less.

My father and I always talk about how poorly the road planning in the GVRD is, the worst are the highways, they don't even make fucking sense most of the time. That's followed by the condition that our roads are actually in, some might aswell be a 4x4 competition course.

They talk about growth, and yet, a large part of growth is goods getting to where they need to be, on time. They have completely and fucking utterly failed at building a high flow road system to accommodate for the fact that Vancouver is an insanely busy port city.

I think Japan has a stellar highway model, everything is neat and tidy, efficient, and most importantly, built for the constant flow of traffic.

No highway should have cars idling on it, ones that do are failures in engineering, and failure is not an option when it's a district's backbone.


This is how you treat your roads, and look at how SMOOTH it is, two month patch jobs here are lucky to come out as anything less than a speed bump: http://dvice.com/archives/2011/03/japanese-engine.php