Manchester, Liverpool, Birmingham, shall I list more places that would be considered shitholes? Maybe the rural parts and small towns are "nice" but the major cities are overcrowded and turning into slums and ghettos because of the influx of immigrants coming from other parts of the EU.

its not even the immigrants much of it was a shithole prior to the immigrants the "trailer trash" in the uk has always been present in such major numbers
the uk has just been surviving from its banking sector and that's been going to hell too it'll just get worse there

For a minute there I thought I had stepped into the UKIP supporters forum.

There's nothing racist about it.

The UK economy hasn't recovered from the 2008 market crash, there's no jobs and now mix in the influx of eastern Europeans coming into the UK willing to work in the trades for dirt cheap or by working under the table which has hurt the locals.

Immigration works best when you have readily available jobs and the economy is booming, it doesn't work out that well when you have a large influx of immigrants who come into the country and can't find jobs, mix that in with the locals who are in the same situation and you have the prefect recipe to create slums and fuel unrest. Look at the situation with the areas surrounding Paris and other parts of the EU. Lack of jobs are creating major social unrest in EU countries and cities which are already overcrowded and usually mass immigration doesn't help the situation.

I disagree with you there.
This is the result of living with an Islamic culture that has not grown up to modern day views.
I think it can be argued that the West grew up from Christian culture and Christian values and has matured while those in Islamic countries have not.

I think it is up to the Muslims to collectively grow up. For their women to speak out and fight for their own rights. An extremist culture where there is less equality between peoples breeds extremism.
Sure you can say "most muslims" this or that, and hooray, for the vast majority that can be considered more moderate. I'm obviously not placing all the blame on Islam the relgion, Christianity has just grown up and become more moderate first. But I do want to say that Islam, the way it is practiced in many areas of the world are creating this exact kind of problem.


In the West, the moderate Christians really won't put up with the extremist anymore. Not when they cross these kind of lines. They get ratted out, quashed and they create change in the laws to prevent this from happening.



I believe you when you say the Muslims you know in Vancouver are non-violent. Same for me, the ones I know too are not extremists.
But there are plenty of extremist Muslism AND Christians.

The difference is that the Christians seem to have grown up first.
There is far less tolerance of the extremist Christian groups than the Muslims show for theirs.
I'm not saying Christian culture or religion is better in the big picture, but rather, the here and now at this moment, moderate:extremist seem to have a better ratio in Christians than Muslims.
And Christians seem to tolerate this bullshit less than the Muslims and it actually shows.




All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
~ Edmund Burke.

Not saying my Muslim brothers are any less good.
But the good ones certainly don't seem to be doing enough (at the current time).


Am I wrong?

I find that kind of sentiment extremely offensive! Are you saying that the Muslim community at large, the community that has repeatedly distanced itself from these kinds of attacks, isn't doing enough to prove to the world they aren't violent?

extremism in any form is a product of soo many variables, from history, socioeconomic development and culture, etc.

we can't say that all muslims are bad, that's just ignorant.

I don't think Christians have matured and Muslims haven't...Christianity is just more familiar and we just roll our eyes when they act up...ie: the tea party antics, moment of conception bullshit, etc.

I also disagree with the suggestion that it is not tolerated. ..especially when one of the super fundamental crazies was almost the fucking president.
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It doesn't help when the west has been pillaging and bombing those nations since well since the West has existed since before Islam existed

What's also to blame imo is the culture, outside of religion, that has existed for millenia which ill practices still exist despite their current faiths (Christians, Zoroastrians, Jews, etc living in these areas, Africa, middle east, perform like atrocities as well)

You would like to blame Islam but the world's largest populations of Muslims is South East Asia and China (10% of pop) where things are relatively normal but extremism exists everywhere and they have their own problems including Buddhist extremists re: burma

to say extremism doesn't exist in the west isn't only ridiculous it's ignorant and im not just speaking of the likes of westboro im speaking of the evangelicals ingrained in the military with their recruiting stations on bases; and the extremism of the military industrial complex etc

extremism exists everywhere but it takes different forms based on what the nation is technically, financially, and culturally capable of

OT: People and cultures are always in a state of change. Today the West has all the wealth and power and views itself as superior (culturally, morally, intellectually) but I think it's important to note that this was not always the case (and will not always be the case in the future). During the Dark Ages, the Western peoples were the "uncultured barbarians" who lived in a world mired in poverty, violence and religious hocus pocus (think burning of "witches"). During this time, the peoples of the Middle East were the intellectuals of the world, they made great advances in mathematics, astronomy, medicine, philosophy (it was they who preserved the writings of the Ancient Greek philosophers alive, which in turn was key to the West's Renaissance in the 17th century).

Muslims only seem more violent than Westerners because whenever they commit atrocities, it's all over the media whereas when the West commits atrocities it's barely mentioned (think: the US's invasion of Iraq has led to the slaughtering over 1 million people (Lancet) and has completely destroyed the lives of an entire nation, where is that ever mentioned? "When one person is killed, it's a tragedy, when a million people are killed, it's a statistic."

Back on topic: I think these guys were extremely f*cked-uped to begin with and it would have mattered little which religious sect they belonged to.

There are dickfaces in every religion. People do unspeakable things in the name of Christianity all the time. The KKK is a Christian organization. Christian terrorist groups have killed abortion doctors in broad daylight. Timothy McVeigh was a Christian extremist and was responsible for the Oklahoma City bombing. Islam isn't to blame for this. Radical assholes are.

There are people of every religion that have to validate their own religion by shouting that everyone else is wrong.

People can talk all they want, but talk is talk and sometimes it's just lip service.

For example, if my brother brother went around committing fraud or robbery, I sure as hell wouldn't stand by and just be like "yeah, he's also a Lo, but doesn't represent my mom, dad and cousins".
The moment I found out, you can bet I would grab baseball bat, hunt his ass down and bring him to justice. My culture's justice.
Meaning beat his ass in, then tell him to suck it up and own up to what he did.

The Islamic and middle eastern culture is ever more family, community and justice based than ours. And their sense of justice carries a lot less mercy.

So you tell me, do you think the Muslims are holding their brother accountable? Are they delivering justice?

What's the Game of Thrones quote? "Words are wind"?



I'm not saying Christianity as a whole is a better system.
What I am saying is that they are a little more caught up with modern times.
Yeah, there are all types of bullshit that goes on in the Christian community. And there is even more that goes on from those just hiding behind the Christian name, but those that do, know how to play the game.
The Tea Party are full of ignorant idiotis, the homophobes and arbortion extremist are just as bad. But for the most part, talk is talk, but when human life comes into the line of fire, it is dealt with.


I think you brought up a good example of this in the west. The abortion related murders, they aren't just verbally ostracized.
They are hunted down, tried and jailed or executed.
This means from within the same system, they are dealt with, and more importantly, removed from being a further threat.



Again, I would like to reiterate that I don't think Christianity is a better religion as a whole. It was just as bad and also used to hide political power plays (Catholic Church much?).
But what I am saying is that at the current time, I don't feel that those 99% of non-violent Muslims are keeping their brothers in check.

Read this on another forum, "London needs tougher meat-cleaver laws so this sort of thing can't happen again. "

lol.

And walked right beside/around him... or even confronted him... :fulloffuck:

The UK is a fucking mess. It has been for years.

I will say now..on paper. Dinosaur is going to lambaste me for never having been there :)

Massive unemployment in regional areas. Minimal manufacturing. Drug problems that are on DTES level in multiple locations.

Now, they are adding in austerity measures that are now taking the crutch that people were using out from under them. Europe all across the board is doing the same thing.

Ugly situation.

christians are just as extreme.

they have formed a massive group called the united states of america, and have little brothers and sisters all around the "west".

it IS an all out jihad war.

the christians are just as much as fault than the islamics.

life for life, christians are by far the worst.

just cuz they don't go cutting off heads doesn't make them better.

their tactics and technology are far too advanced and efficient to put that kind of effort put into killing people.

we've got a specialized warrior caste to do that dirty work, they're called professional soldiers.

the sole purpose of all of you guys, is so that your work can support the christian entity, and your work can put that bullet into the chamber of a warrior's weapon at the front lines so that your "team" can expand in influence.

if all of islam suddenly surrendered, you can be damn sure we'd pick the next biggest threat to stomp on.

there are no good guys. everyone's the bad guy... except the Buddhists. lol.

^
CharlesInCharge?


I kid, I kid

Whens the last time you heard of a christian blowing people up in the name of christianity? Never, that's when.
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I can name two right off the top of my head: Timothy McVeigh (OKC Bomber) and Anders Breivik (Norweigian camp shooter). Go ahead, look it up.

Plenty of horrible things have been done in the name of Christianity.

It's just like Vancouver. Great if you have money, awful if you don't.

Dude, did you even read Ulic's post? You don't get it.

It is a RARE occasion that I agree with what he has to say, but buddy nailed it this time. Read it again. Slowly.

Buddhist comment made me :lol

their cheers after are equivalent to "allah akbar".

if it isn't for Christianity, what is it for? science? the whales?

the fundamental basis of the west is Christianity. everything we do is for God. don't lie to yourself.

lol... that's anywhere on this planet!

haha, well it's true. Monks kill themselves in protest. They're so neutral that whatever happens, just happens. they'll just merely observe. lol they represent the star trek prime directive hahaha... they don't interfere with anything.

the prime directive...sometimes you have to bend it...ask captain janeway...

You don't see white people going over to the middle east and blowing up public places. Whites\europeans just don't commit terror acts
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