Mayors want mobility tax on drivers to fund $7.5B transit expansion

[Tapioca]

Translink controls some of the bridges and roads. Everyone benefits directly or indirectly from better transit, so it makes sense that everyone should pay for it (unless you take the trouble of living off the grid and not buying any goods from local shops).

[Y2K_o__o]

couldn't agree more with belaud

It all comes to proactive urban planning and think ahead for transportation & transit system as a whole.

[Tapioca]

Comparing transit systems in Asia to those in North America is an apples-to-orange comparison.

There lot's of blame to go around - politicians, Translink, and us being the car-culture-suburban-loving public. To get integrated urban planning will take decades and will require a culture shift in the like that no other jurisdiction in North America has experienced, save for New York City. People here don't want to live in shoeboxes and they hate any attempt at social engineering such as bike lanes.

At the end of the day, 0.5% is not a lot considering the other alternatives such as vehicle levy, property tax increase, etc. Of course, service cuts is an option, but people complain about the poor service right now.

[tool001]

^ right

stop comparing asia and north america,

cause tokyo (that has amazing transit system) has population of 13.million mainly relies on its subway system , where as BC population of 4.4 million doesnt (vancouver is far less)

i prefer paying .5 more on pst , rather than it being added just to gas tax..

[Mr.HappySilp]

^^ how about we increase property tax since it seems more ppl on RS don't even own a house (according to the Real estate thread). That way it won't affect anyone on RS.

[tonyzoomzoom]

hikes in property taxes will mean hikes in rents (unless you're living with parents), so you'll get hit one way or another.

I don't mind paying more for a better transportation system; but Translink needs to be way more accountable for the way it spends money. The Compass fuck up is a classic example.

Translink needs more than just having regular audits; they need to be regulated like BCHydro, Fortis Gas, etc.

[bobbinka]

i think we need an official translink thread cause we're just repeating ourselves


http://www.revscene.net/forums/68014...te-thread.html

http://www.revscene.net/forums/68728...rd-system.html

[G-spec]

We all know this is about more money in their pockets, think I heard on the radio yesterday local government makes about 10 billion in taxes per year..... but let me humor this for a minute and pretend it really is about getting people out of cars decongesting the streets a little

Translink has done a lot in the last 10+ years, adding new lines mostly, I don't think we need more, they've really been annoying last few years with all this money pandering..
As a guy who has to drive for work (construction) when I do want to travel for leisure, quite often I'd like to Skytrain and just drop off my car in the parking lot to avoid traffic hassle. But the inability to park my car anywhere near most Skytrain stations is what prevents that.

People who have been driving for years, you're not gonna get them into buses because fuck buses, but you have a very good chance getting then into Skytrains however... So one thing that could get more drivers into Skytrains, if Translink made more parking spaces available around their Stations, most people I know have no problem leaving their car at Skytrain and taking train to avoid traffic. And I understand not every station can have the giant parking lot Scott Road does, but most stations are either around un-parkable residential areas (like Joyce) or have tiny ass time sensitive parking lots (Edmonds)




Now what my main issue is the traffic in this city has come to almost standstill levels, when I first got my license back in 99, you could drive around town anywhere without really having to consider traffic and rush hours, I mean it was there, but nowhere near as bad as it is today... I mean car population seems like it's tripled in the last 15 years.... and from my understanding the city streets are based on 1970 or 80 ish population and car levels...
We got a new bridge, and widened Highway 1, great thank you it helped noticeably.... but it's just nowhere near enough....

I don't know what could be done immediately aside from banning cars parking on the curbside lane 6am to 10pm on the big streets like Kingsway, Knight, etc....etc.... I think that would have an immediate impact and probably the least costly and makes most sense

[nabs]

Originally Posted by tool001

i prefer paying .5 more on pst , rather than it being added just to gas tax..

This is how the government wants you thinking, throwing out 2 separate things, making the second one look worse than the first therefore making the first more desirable, then you get settled on the lesser of the two thinking you got the better hand.

When in reality, I think the amount of taxes we pay should suffice, and they need to manage the current incoming tax money more efficiently. I don't want to pay either the .5 on pst or this.

[Anjew]

Originally Posted by G-spec

As a guy who has to drive for work (construction) when I do want to travel for leisure, quite often I'd like to Skytrain and just drop off my car in the parking lot to avoid traffic hassle. But the inability to park my car anywhere near most Skytrain stations is what prevents that.

People who have been driving for years, you're not gonna get them into buses because fuck buses, but you have a very good chance getting then into Skytrains however... So one thing that could get more drivers into Skytrains, if Translink made more parking spaces available around their Stations, most people I know have no problem leaving their car at Skytrain and taking train to avoid traffic. And I understand not every station can have the giant parking lot Scott Road does, but most stations are either around un-parkable residential areas (like Joyce) or have tiny ass time sensitive parking lots (Edmonds)

I agree, There absolutely needs to be more parking spots near the skytrain stations. That would be a much greener venture than any bike lanes in Vancouver.

[Soundy]

Originally Posted by G-spec

We got a new bridge, and widened Highway 1, great thank you it helped noticeably.... but it's just nowhere near enough....

This has always been the core of traffic problems here, though (and probably most places): upgrades aren't done under an all-encompassing master design, they're done piecemeal to fix one small problem, which only shifts the problem a little bit.

In the last 20 years before the whole PMH1 project, for example, I've seen two major re-designs of the Cape Horn interchange... each one fixed one problem while making another worse, or simply moved the problem a little further down the road. Doing the whole thing right required what they're doing now: new bridge, wider highway, somewhere to put all that traffic once you've got it organized, and creating and tying in alternate routes like the SFPR and the Lougheed Hwy upgrades (new Pitt River Bridge, etc.)

Even now there's still a problem that wasn't addressed: you've got all this traffic flowing smoothly all the way from the Valley right into East Van... and yet a major portion of that traffic is still heading downtown, and that means funneling onto surface streets. And you've got all that traffic leaving again in the evening, still via surface streets. But of course, the Vancouver eco-weenies couldn't allow any sort of improvement to happen to aid that flow, they just repeat the mantra, "if you build it, they will come".... well guess what, fuckwit, if you build it, they can also leave.

Which just points to the other root problem: everyone being so resistant to change. They'd been talking about upgrading or replacing the Port Mann for 30 years, but the NIMBYs shut it down time and time again, and meantime the NEED for the capacity just kept growing and growing. And with it, costs kept going up and up at an exponential rate. So when a government finally had the balls to say "fuck you, this is getting DONE", it ended up costing ten times what it should have to do it right in the first place. And once again, in between you spend a shit-ton on stop-gap measures, like moving the old Port Mann's sidewalks to free up space to add a single outgoing HOV lane...

[iEatClams]

Originally Posted by G-spec

but let me humor this for a minute and pretend it really is about getting people out of cars decongesting the streets a little

Translink has done a lot in the last 10+ years, adding new lines mostly, I don't think we need more, they've really been annoying last few years with all this money pandering..
As a guy who has to drive for work (construction) when I do want to travel for leisure, quite often I'd like to Skytrain and just drop off my car in the parking lot to avoid traffic hassle. But the inability to park my car anywhere near most Skytrain stations is what prevents that.

People who have been driving for years, you're not gonna get them into buses because fuck buses, but you have a very good chance getting then into Skytrains however... So one thing that could get more drivers into Skytrains, if Translink made more parking spaces available around their Stations, most people I know have no problem leaving their car at Skytrain and taking train to avoid traffic. And I understand not every station can have the giant parking lot Scott Road does, but most stations are either around un-parkable residential areas (like Joyce) or have tiny ass time sensitive parking lots (Edmonds)




Now what my main issue is the traffic in this city has come to almost standstill levels, when I first got my license back in 99, you could drive around town anywhere without really having to consider traffic and rush hours, I mean it was there, but nowhere near as bad as it is today... I mean car population seems like it's tripled in the last 15 years.... and from my understanding the city streets are based on 1970 or 80 ish population and car levels...
We got a new bridge, and widened Highway 1, great thank you it helped noticeably.... but it's just nowhere near enough....

I don't know what could be done immediately aside from banning cars parking on the curbside lane 6am to 10pm on the big streets like Kingsway, Knight, etc....etc.... I think that would have an immediate impact and probably the least costly and makes most sense

+ 1 to building parking lots near skytrains. We cant have it at all skytrains, but maybe a few major ones, like how king george station has it. we need skytrain parking between major zones or cities. for example, we could have one in richmond for people crossing bridges.

I do like how the canada line has eased traffic and removed a lot of cars on the road in that area, especially a line to the airport. you can go downtown to the airport just on the skytrain.

but we need to have that broadway corridor. soo much traffic along broadway / west 4th / 12th avenue its a damn standstill.

speaking of zones, when are the compass cards suppose to kick in? The Zone thing is a huge pet peeve of mine. ride one skytrain station between two zones and you have to pay more (from $91 to $124 a month). soo stupid.

I think translink is fucking up big time on planning and execution. which is where a lot of money is being wasted on. Compass card? over budget and over schedule. How long does it take to upgrade Main st. station? but who know's?, I'm just armchair quarterbacking it with my elementary school education and maybe theres a legit reason for some of this.

[iEatClams]

the other thing is, vision is just giving land and tax money away to developers. They need to negotiate better to have developers pay for some of the infrastructure. When it comes to real estate in Vancouver, the city should be in the position of power, not the developers. When property values are rising and land is in demand, the city should have all the power. This isn't Detroit where we need to attract developers. Right now developers are just raking in $ up the ass.

All they need to do is just force the developers to give more money to have some of the prime real estate developed (properties close to skytrain for example). Want to build a 12 story instead of 8 stories? help us fund some of the infrastructure. yet it seems like the opposite is happening.

[Soundy]

Originally Posted by iEatClams

I think translink is fucking up big time on planning and execution. which is where a lot of money is being wasted on. Compass card? over budget and over schedule. How long does it take to upgrade Main st. station? but who know's?, I'm just armchair quarterbacking it with my elementary school education and maybe theres a legit reason for some of this.

This has the same roots as the other infrastructure issues: too much pandering to the vocal minorities, not enough just doing what needs to be done. Granted, some sort of turnstile system should have been used right from the start, but too late to dwell on that... people and pundits have been crying for years for this TYPE of system and getting rid of the zones, but rather than either say "fuck you, it stays the way it is" or "fine, we'll do it, but it's going to take time and cost a bundle", they go for half-assed measures to save time and money and calm the whiners... who of course, just whine louder when things don't work as expected.

Of course, one of the core problems with TransLink is that its board is made up of civic politicians, each with their own agenda, each wanting to pander to their own community. You can have the mayors of Surrey, Delta and New West pushing a new Patullo Bridge, while the mayors of Burnaby and Coquitlam have other priorities, and an eco-Nazi mayor in Burnaby who would probably be just as happy to see the freeways turned into green spaces.

It's hard to get anything done on a regional basis when everyone involved in decision-making is more concerned about keeping their own voters happy.

[Gunsmokez]

I don't mind paying the 0.5% increase to PST.

We all gotta pay in the end! It will happen.

[tiger_handheld]

If the PST increase goes through, can I make a referendum to retract the carbon tax?

[Tone Loc]

Originally Posted by Timpo

If you work 9-5, you'll get stuck in a traffic jam. There's nothing luxurious about that. I'd rather take a train and get home fast.

Rich people will tell you flying a private jet is a luxury, taking a flight on B787 with hundreds of people squished in is for the unwashed masses.

This. As much as I'm financially against this tax increase, I can't deny it's an overall GOOD thing... as long as there is transparency involved and the greedy executives running Translink don't get pay raise that suspiciously increase with the revenue.

You cannot deny that GVRD public transit sucks and is sorely lacking compared to most other "big" cities. Transit - including light rail if need be - is the only real viable solution, not bike lanes that can only be used half the year. Vancouver's population is increasing rapidly, and we need to find a way to de-congest the roads and facilitate transportation for everybody.

And let's be real here, as said above if you work 9-5 you WILL get stuck in traffic. At that point I'd rather take transit and let someone else do the driving, I can just chill with my iPod and take a nap instead of plotting ways to viciously murder the BMW driver who just cut me off.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Originally Posted by PARANOiA-R34

This. As much as I'm financially against this tax increase, I can't deny it's an overall GOOD thing... as long as there is transparency involved and the greedy executives running Translink don't get pay raise that suspiciously increase with the revenue.

You cannot deny that GVRD public transit sucks and is sorely lacking compared to most other "big" cities. Transit - including light rail if need be - is the only real viable solution, not bike lanes that can only be used half the year. Vancouver's population is increasing rapidly, and we need to find a way to de-congest the roads and facilitate transportation for everybody.

And let's be real here, as said above if you work 9-5 you WILL get stuck in traffic. At that point I'd rather take transit and let someone else do the driving, I can just chill with my iPod and take a nap instead of plotting ways to viciously murder the BMW driver who just cut me off.

Do what some of the cities do set 2 types of insurance Type 1 allows you to drive Mon, Wed Fri and Sun and Type 2 allows you to drive Tue Thurs Sat and Sun. It might not fix the issue 100% but it does help with traffic jam. Possibly leading ppl to car pool more often. Bejing does this I think.

Honestly I would no simply because I don't feel Vancouver needs another light rail system. They light Rail system will eventually connect to UBC but what other universities? If UBC gets a light rail from Boardway to UBC then there should be one going from Porduction way to SFU and one from Metrotown to BCIT etc etc..... why should we waste billions on it. Is mostly to please the developers that's all. Build a light rail system and let the developers buy the land near the station for dirt cheap.

What needs to happen is to provide better and faster service to the current public transit system first. More buses for popular routes, more skytrains during rush hour. The reason we need more skytrains is because when the Ever green line is up and running it will bring a ton of people onto the skytrain system. The current capacity is already running over the maximum capacity during rush hour. Also please add washrooms to some major skystain station. It sucks when you need to use the washroom and there isn't any.

[StylinRed]

municipalities and nations all around the world issue bonds to pay for infrastructure projects either partially or fully....yet here, all we do is increase taxes or charge tolls

-_-

[hchang]

Originally Posted by Tapioca

Translink controls some of the bridges and roads. Everyone benefits directly or indirectly from better transit, so it makes sense that everyone should pay for it (unless you take the trouble of living off the grid and not buying any goods from local shops).

OR.... Charge the people who actually use it.

I know, what a concept right!?

[Tone Loc]

Originally Posted by Mr.HappySilp

Do what some of the cities do set 2 types of insurance Type 1 allows you to drive Mon, Wed Fri and Sun and Type 2 allows you to drive Tue Thurs Sat and Sun. It might not fix the issue 100% but it does help with traffic jam. Possibly leading ppl to car pool more often. Bejing does this I think.

Honestly I would no simply because I don't feel Vancouver needs another light rail system. They light Rail system will eventually connect to UBC but what other universities? If UBC gets a light rail from Boardway to UBC then there should be one going from Porduction way to SFU and one from Metrotown to BCIT etc etc..... why should we waste billions on it. Is mostly to please the developers that's all. Build a light rail system and let the developers buy the land near the station for dirt cheap.

Yes, but see... Beijing has a very good public transit system, at least compared to Vancouver. In order to get people out of cars, you have to provide them with a BETTER alternative. This means what? Make transit look MORE APPEALING to the everyday commuter. Everybody hates traffic, that's a given. So capitalize on that with better, more frequent service, covered bus shelters (this goes a long way in an area that rains 6 months/year), etc.

And I meant the GVRD needs a light rail system in the suburban areas of Surrey etc., where public transit is very bad and a majority of people who live there commute to Vancouver for work. Something similar to the West Coast Express for Surrey residents, or at least an expansion of the Expo Line past King George would help loads.

[Gunsmokez]

Need to get people out of their cars . Kinda odd saying this in a car enthusiast forum. But, it is the truth. Too many single occupancy drivers during peak hours.

Adding more buses will not help that situation. They just get stuck by all the rest of the cars. Sky trains however I do see it helping more but at such a HUGE cost.

Perhaps making that skytrain down the Broadway corridor will help, no on really knows. All we do know is that, that area is CRAZY busy!!! 99's have 4 mins service and are PACKED to the windshield. 9's are 5 mins apart as well for local traffic and still fucking busy.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Originally Posted by PARANOiA-R34

And I meant the GVRD needs a light rail system in the suburban areas of Surrey etc., where public transit is very bad and a majority of people who live there commute to Vancouver for work. Something similar to the West Coast Express for Surrey residents, or at least an expansion of the Expo Line past King George would help loads.

They are talking building 2 Light rail system. One from King George(Surrey) and the other from Boardway station down to arbutus street. Is the one from Boardway station down to arbutus street I have issue with. There is no need to build that line.

I don't buy the whole excuse that they will eventually connect it to UBC. I just there is enough buses going to UBC already is just ppl don't know there are other routes other than the 99 UBC bus. If ppl get off at VCC station there is the 84 that goes to UBC and everytime I took that bus to work there isn't any major line up. There is also the bus 25 starts off Brentwood mall that goes to UBC. Then there is another one at Joyce. Ppl just loves to take the 99 for some reason. The sole purpose of building a light rail system in the city of Vancouver (Not Surrey) is to fill more money in developers' pocket.

[Tone Loc]

Originally Posted by Mr.HappySilp

I don't buy the whole excuse that they will eventually connect it to UBC. I just there is enough buses going to UBC already is just ppl don't know there are other routes other than the 99 UBC bus. If ppl get off at VCC station there is the 84 that goes to UBC and everytime I took that bus to work there isn't any major line up. There is also the bus 25 starts off Brentwood mall that goes to UBC. Then there is another one at Joyce. Ppl just loves to take the 99 for some reason. The sole purpose of building a light rail system in the city of Vancouver (Not Surrey) is to fill more money in developers' pocket.

I take the 99 every day, and I've tried the 84... but the traffic on W 4th in the morning is crazy busy. Not to mention the 84 stops a lot more frequently than the 99 making the overall commute longer.

The reason a train system is needed from Broadway-Commercial to the UBC area is because the Broadway "corridor" at any given time of normal business hours is complete gridlock. Especially from Cambie to around Oak, and even Granville at times. Lots of people take the 99 to get from Broadway-Commercial to the Canada Line.

I understand you have different opinions but to me it's ridiculous that a bus that (theoretically) holds about 200 people and comes every 2-3 minutes during rush hour is STILL so packed that the average person has to wait for 4-5 buses before getting on. The reason the SFU equivalent (the 135 bus) is not AS packed is because it doesn't connect two major transit hubs (Canada + Millennium/Expo Lines) together, most people using it are students.

And even then you're still packed like a sardine. One of the many reasons I just sell my U Pass and park at SW Marine down by the beach....

[Mr.HappySilp]

waiting 4 to 5 buses is nothing. When I visited HK during rush hour I have to wait 8+ buses before I can get on. So 2 to 3 mins per bus and you have to wait 4 to 5 bus that's only 8min to 15mins. Is nothing I took the 123 bus every morning and it comes every 20mins. You have it lucky to only wait 15mins.

So there are other options but ppl just refuse to use it because is slower, therefore we need a light rail system so we could get to UBC in 30mins instead of 40mins. And to achieve that we have to spend billions and billions of dollars.