Canadian court rejects rich migrants’ compensation claim over defunct visa scheme

[Marco911]

Originally Posted by Manic!

365 mill a year just for east van is a drop in the bucket are you kidding me?!?!?!

Where did you get that figure from?

Also when they buy a house they pay taxes also when they sell. If you can't afford to live in Vancouver move somewhere else. This whole country was built on people moving to new places.

The problem is Vancouverites can't afford to live in Vancouver anymore. When you have a large number of homes owned by foreigners that are kept empty and the real estate prices is driven up as a result, that's a problem. The cost of housing and rent negatively impacts corporations and businesses that want to move here.

[quasi]

Originally Posted by stewie

i can only hope that with your mind set, your future kids or grandchildren will be forced to move halfway across the country leaving you to never see them except for maybe 1 visit a year. forget about seeing your grandchildren either unless your willing to fly out to wherever they live..instead you'll get to watch them grow up on good ole facebook photos or whatever social media crap site there is at that time.

LOL, you just described my life, my mom visits a couple times a year haven't seen my dad since 2012 though.

[Manic!]

Originally Posted by 4444

i'm not complaining about the chinese, but you come on here and make offensive comments against caucasian british people.

most bigots don't think they're being prejudice

you didn't answer my question, either.

I post facts. You know what they use to call Italians? wops and you know why there are so many Irish cops in places like New York and Boston? Because no one else would hire them because they thought they were drunk and lazy.

Originally Posted by stewie

i can only hope that with your mind set, your future kids or grandchildren will be forced to move halfway across the country leaving you to never see them except for maybe 1 visit a year. forget about seeing your grandchildren either unless your willing to fly out to wherever they live..instead you'll get to watch them grow up on good ole facebook photos or whatever social media crap site there is at that time.

I live on Vancouver Island were most people leave after finishing high school. That's life. Look at Skinnypup. He is from the same town I am and now lives half way across the world.

Originally Posted by Marco911

Where did you get that figure from?



The problem is Vancouverites can't afford to live in Vancouver anymore. When you have a large number of homes owned by foreigners that are kept empty and the real estate prices is driven up as a result, that's a problem. The cost of housing and rent negatively impacts corporations and businesses that want to move here.

I got that figure from the province news paper but I could have read it wrong.

The houses are empty so that means they pay property taxes but don't use any of the services like garbage collection and community facility's. So they are subsidizing the people living there. Many people that are wealthy own property in different countries. I know people that own houses in places like Arizona that only spent the winter months there. You have a problem with that?

[Lomac]

Originally Posted by stewie

i can only hope that with your mind set, your future kids or grandchildren will be forced to move halfway across the country leaving you to never see them except for maybe 1 visit a year. forget about seeing your grandchildren either unless your willing to fly out to wherever they live..instead you'll get to watch them grow up on good ole facebook photos or whatever social media crap site there is at that time.

Because lower cost cities like Abbotsford and Maple Ridge are oh-so-far away...

And it's unfortunately part of life. Do you think cities like New York and London don't suffer from similar issues? My dad grew up in New York and was priced out of living in that city. Luckily he moved to the GVRD when it was still cheap as hell to live there, so buying a house wasn't an issue. However, now he's seeing his friend's kids go through the same situation he found himself in while living in New York.

[multicartual]

Originally Posted by Lomac

Because lower cost cities like Abbotsford and Maple Ridge are oh-so-far away...

Come on man, those places are absolute shitholes compared to living in Kits or Dunbar. I would rather rent4life than live anywhere but downtown or the West Side.

I know people in Abby and Ridge, property crime is crazy bad. Open prostitution, drug use. Meth heads race their shopping carts down Dewdney Trunk in the middle of the fucking day! Not to mention the culture, just look at how people dress out there.

Living among wealthy chinese who look down on you as a renter is far, far superior than living among white trash who reek of knock-off cologne, are covered in tats, drive Chrysler 300C's and have 3 kids by the age of 25 all by different women. Not to mention the plethora of Ed Hardy-esque t-shirts you see in Abby or Ridge, a clear indicator of 0 fucking class.

The DTES is a shithole but at least I don't have to talk to or see those people on a daily basis, where as if you went shopping in Abby or Ridge you'll be surrounded by the mediocre constantly. Downtown forces you to keep up with the Joneses, the success of others helps to pull you along.

My girlfriend lives on the West Side and along 33rd you can find an incredible amount of beautiful, huge houses with unkempt lawns. We took a walking tour in her neighborhood and found over 50 gorgeous places that haven't been lived in for what appear to be at least a year. My phone died or I would have got some pics of this one house that had 3 foot tall grass, haha. More power to those foreign investors, I don't mind renting as long as the rental costs price out trash from living in my neighborhood!

[multicartual]

I would rather feel alienated when I see an asian drive by in a nice car on the way to his beautiful west side home; than feel welcome and among my people while living in Maple Ridge surrounded by white trash.

The former inspires, the latter anchors.

[scottsman]

Having a Vacation home in Arizona is not the same thing as someone trying to move Capital to another country in order to hide their wealth. Or in another scenario simply investing in house/property with no intention to live in it.

The high property prices are not only affecting White people but people of all backgrounds. I have a lot of friends that moved to Vancouver from Hong Kong around 1990 - 97 and they are having a hard time finding a way to own a home/apartment.

[godwin]

You do realize the reason why Canadian gov is so reluctant with foreign asset declaration (btw it is "voluntary") and cross border taxation rules is because most people who contribute to politicians have the hand in it, regardless of colour or creed.

A lot of Canadians especially the top 10%, use shelters like BVI. I think the Liberal aired the ideas once and it got shot down so quick. So we ourselves as Canadians do hide our wealth from our own government when we can afford it.

Originally Posted by scottsman

Having a Vacation home in Arizona is not the same thing as someone trying to move Capital to another country in order to hide their wealth. Or in another scenario simply investing in house/property with no intention to live in it.

The high property prices are not only affecting White people but people of all backgrounds. I have a lot of friends that moved to Vancouver from Hong Kong around 1990 - 97 and they are having a hard time finding a way to own a home/apartment.

[Manic!]

Originally Posted by scottsman

Having a Vacation home in Arizona is not the same thing as someone trying to move Capital to another country in order to hide their wealth. Or in another scenario simply investing in house/property with no intention to live in it.

The high property prices are not only affecting White people but people of all backgrounds. I have a lot of friends that moved to Vancouver from Hong Kong around 1990 - 97 and they are having a hard time finding a way to own a home/apartment.

So it was o.k. for your friends to move from Hongkong/China drive up prices in the 90's but it's not o.k. for new people to do that. People had the same complaints in the 90's. If it was up to many people on R.S. your friends would not be here. I also know people that bought property in the states as a pure investment. Anything wrong with that?

If you want to talk about bribery, corruption, and hiding money you can talk about Canada's very own snc lavalin.

[underscore]

Originally Posted by Manic!

So it was o.k. for your friends to move from Hongkong/China drive up prices in the 90's but it's not o.k. for new people to do that.

The difference is, they actually moved here and stayed here. And people are still welcome to move here and stay here. They're just removing a loophole that let rich fucks jump the line to abuse the system.

[Carl Johnson]

Originally Posted by Manic!

So it was o.k. for your friends to move from Hongkong/China drive up prices in the 90's but it's not o.k. for new people to do that. People had the same complaints in the 90's. If it was up to many people on R.S. your friends would not be here. I also know people that bought property in the states as a pure investment. Anything wrong with that?

If you want to talk about bribery, corruption, and hiding money you can talk about Canada's very own snc lavalin.

The problem is not about people buying properties but it's about people using the IIP and coming here to buy properties without being 100% committed to Canadian's way of life. In the process the wealthy immigrants grossly inflated Vancouver's property price beyond any economic fundamentals (income/jobs/trade) would have Vancouver real estate priced at.

The upshot to me is that I think the RE price increases is probably a short-term phenomenon. The last few years of excessive gain will probably give most of it back or more in the next few years. Do I count on it? No. At the end of day I only care about affordability. And Vancouver is grossly inadequate in that respect. Moving out of this province is real possibility depending on how things unfold.

[westopher]

I think this has gone so far off topic due to people accusing of rampant racism. I'm glad the investor program is nixed, because I believe no one should be able to BUY citizenship. Its the most disgusting class separation in such an obvious way. Is it because I don't want asian people here? Fuck no! Some of my friends are chinese, viet, white, black and whateverthefuckelse. I don't want rich FOBs waltzing in here because they bought a canadian passport with no interest in being a canadian citizen because they need to hide their money from a corrupt government. I don't want some rich oil money motherfucker coming in here and thinking this country is their personal playground without needing to respect our laws, or our citizens. While not everyone who used this program is guilty of such, the premise behind the fact that we were willing to sell our citizenship is disgusting.

This has nothing to do with race for me, it has to do with the fact that someone with 800k to spare can walk into this country while offering nothing else, while someone who wants to leave their country due to racism, sexism, religious persecution, etc, can't get citizenship.

[R. Mutt]

^well said. Not to mention people who have migrated from other countries (like myself, coworkers and friends in the VFX and film industry) who are here on a work permit but have been contributing to the economy for years, paying into the system busting their ass have to go through more loops and a longer wait time in order to become a permanent resident. I love this place and the way of life here. I'd love nothing more than some security from an immigration standpoint but people like myself come second to those who can afford to be put first. I have to say though: Canada's immigration system is miles better than the US. Unless you can afford a lawyer or a company really want you, you're basically fucked. I payed into the educational system and when the economy crashed in 2009 I pretty much lost any opportunity to stay in the US after my post grad work permit expired.

It's greed that brought about that loop hole. The government gets a quick rate of return but the compromise is you lose out on some the young, intelligent workforce that would help the economy for years to come. Canada has an aging workforce and recent immigration reform has sought to change that via the Canadian experience class whereby young professionals can potentially gain permanent residency within a year if they meet the prerequisites.

[Manic!]

Originally Posted by Carl Johnson

The problem is not about people buying properties but it's about people using the IIP and coming here to buy properties without being 100% committed to Canadian's way of life.

You do know you can by property in foreign country without being a citizen right?

[Tone Loc]

Originally Posted by westopher

I think this has gone so far off topic due to people accusing of rampant racism. I'm glad the investor program is nixed, because I believe no one should be able to BUY citizenship. Its the most disgusting class separation in such an obvious way. Is it because I don't want asian people here? Fuck no! Some of my friends are chinese, viet, white, black and whateverthefuckelse. I don't want rich FOBs waltzing in here because they bought a canadian passport with no interest in being a canadian citizen because they need to hide their money from a corrupt government. I don't want some rich oil money motherfucker coming in here and thinking this country is their personal playground without needing to respect our laws, or our citizens. While not everyone who used this program is guilty of such, the premise behind the fact that we were willing to sell our citizenship is disgusting.

This has nothing to do with race for me, it has to do with the fact that someone with 800k to spare can walk into this country while offering nothing else, while someone who wants to leave their country due to racism, sexism, religious persecution, etc, can't get citizenship.

Thank you for getting this thread back on track... I don't know why or how everyone started jumping to conclusions about stupid things like "racism" or "discrimination' in the first place. I don't see it as being "racist" when I believe that NOBODY, regardless of race, color, ethnicity, or social class, should be able to BUY citizenship to a first-world country. It sends a bad message to both foreigners and citizens. Maybe I am just biased because everyone in my family had to work very hard and wait a long time to come to Canada from the Philippines - and had to deal with hard times in Canada as well before they "came up" socioeconomically - but the fact remains that it simply isn't fair for someone to be let in to Canada with relaxed standards/regulations simply because they have more money in their pocket than the next guy and are willing to spend it.

[scottsman]

So it was o.k. for your friends to move from Hongkong/China drive up prices in the 90's but it's not o.k. for new people to do that. People had the same complaints in the 90's. If it was up to many people on R.S. your friends would not be here. I also know people that bought property in the states as a pure investment. Anything wrong with that?

If you want to talk about bribery, corruption, and hiding money you can talk about Canada's very own snc lavalin.

Who started to talk about any of those things?? Instead of reading and understanding you just post back in such an emotional way it is clear you've got a chip on your shoulder about this issue.

The difference with many of the people that I know who came in the 90's is that they came here and called Canada their home. Living, working, studying, etc... Either both or one of their parents purchased at least 1 home, had jobs and contributed to our society in a meaningful way.

Having these kind of people come to Canada is a great thing and also was a great experience for people already living here to know about new cultures. Many of the things we love about Vancouver would not be possible if these people did not move here. I am sure that most people who post on RS or live in Vancouver are pretty thankful we live in such a mixed culture society with almost every culture, color, race in the World represented in our city.

As others have said, this program essentially allowed people with enough money to buy the right to come to Canada/Citizenship. If I was and immigrant that came to Canada another way and had to put in years to achieve this I would be pretty pissed off.

[FS1992EG]

The economic benefits of these immigrants are not favorable with Canada and our social values.

Money talks but doesn't ultimately get you whatever you want. No matter how much money that is paid to gain citizenship.

I'm in favor of immigrants that are from war torn areas, these people are much more likely to assimilate in to Canadian society and evolve their culture, mixing it with the Canadian way of life.

Rich people tend to have a "I'm better than you mentality" just because they have more money than others.

[RFlush]

Originally Posted by scottsman

The difference with many of the people that I know who came in the 90's is that they came here and called Canada their home. Living, working, studying, etc... Either both or one of their parents purchased at least 1 home, had jobs and contributed to our society in a meaningful way.

Having these kind of people come to Canada is a great thing and also was a great experience for people already living here to know about new cultures. Many of the things we love about Vancouver would not be possible if these people did not move here. I am sure that most people who post on RS or live in Vancouver are pretty thankful we live in such a mixed culture society with almost every culture, color, race in the World represented in our city.

As others have said, this program essentially allowed people with enough money to buy the right to come to Canada/Citizenship. If I was and immigrant that came to Canada another way and had to put in years to achieve this I would be pretty pissed off.

Well to be fair, you don't know for certain that these rich migrants are only investing in Canada and not actually living here. Their families and even they themselves might be living here, working, studying etc. How can you assume that they are any worse than those from HK during the 90's? Given the fact that you see mandarin influence more and more, isn't that a sign that they are staying and trying to make Canada their home?

Also, for those HK immigrants who moved to Canada, many of them or their children are moving back to HK:

Chinese-Canadians lured back to Hong Kong by better job prospects | National Post

From Hong Kong to Canada and back: the migrants who came home from home | South China Morning Post

[godwin]

I think we need diversity and better data and followup... but knowing how the government works.. it will all talk but no enforcement since we can't afford it. I don't know if getting pissed off at others for get something you worked hard for easier is the greatest outlook in life. There is always someone brighter, smarter, richer than you.

Honestly I think it should be a bid system and the people need to make a solid business case for convince Canada if there is a route like that.

However the issue is even this route is closed, there are still tons of ways for the rich to get here. This just happens to be the path of least resistance and least obtuse, vs apply to Quebec for basically the same plan but settle in Vancouver after landing.

Originally Posted by scottsman

If I was and immigrant that came to Canada another way and had to put in years to achieve this I would be pretty pissed off.

[godwin]

And with what's happening in HK, a lot of them are thinking moving back too? Don't forget property in HK appreciated a lot more than relative to Vancouver.. imagine the increase in demand and prices.

Freedom of movement is part of Canadian Charter of Rights.. I don't think you can (or want to) limit that.

Life is full of compromises.. so are laws. Easier to live and let live.

Originally Posted by RFlush

Also, for those HK immigrants who moved to Canada, many of them or their children are moving back to HK:

[Lomac]

Originally Posted by multicartual

Come on man, those places are absolute shitholes compared to living in Kits or Dunbar. I would rather rent4life than live anywhere but downtown or the West Side.

I know people in Abby and Ridge, property crime is crazy bad. Open prostitution, drug use. Meth heads race their shopping carts down Dewdney Trunk in the middle of the fucking day! Not to mention the culture, just look at how people dress out there.

Living among wealthy chinese who look down on you as a renter is far, far superior than living among white trash who reek of knock-off cologne, are covered in tats, drive Chrysler 300C's and have 3 kids by the age of 25 all by different women. Not to mention the plethora of Ed Hardy-esque t-shirts you see in Abby or Ridge, a clear indicator of 0 fucking class.

The DTES is a shithole but at least I don't have to talk to or see those people on a daily basis, where as if you went shopping in Abby or Ridge you'll be surrounded by the mediocre constantly. Downtown forces you to keep up with the Joneses, the success of others helps to pull you along.

My girlfriend lives on the West Side and along 33rd you can find an incredible amount of beautiful, huge houses with unkempt lawns. We took a walking tour in her neighborhood and found over 50 gorgeous places that haven't been lived in for what appear to be at least a year. My phone died or I would have got some pics of this one house that had 3 foot tall grass, haha. More power to those foreign investors, I don't mind renting as long as the rental costs price out trash from living in my neighborhood!

I'm not saying Abbotsford or Maple Ridge are great cities to live in. Personally, after living in YT for a few months, you couldn't pay me to live anywhere DT Vancouver ever again. It's just not my cup of tea. That said, I know people on here don't like living in suburbia or anywhere near farm land.

However, the argument that people are being priced out of BC is simply not true. THAT is what my point was.

[multicartual]

Cash will always, always rule

The poor will always, always get fucked!

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by RFlush

Well to be fair, you don't know for certain that these rich migrants are only investing in Canada and not actually living here. Their families and even they themselves might be living here, working, studying etc. How can you assume that they are any worse than those from HK during the 90's? Given the fact that you see mandarin influence more and more, isn't that a sign that they are staying and trying to make Canada their home?

Also, for those HK immigrants who moved to Canada, many of them or their children are moving back to HK:

Chinese-Canadians lured back to Hong Kong by better job prospects | National Post

From Hong Kong to Canada and back: the migrants who came home from home | South China Morning Post

I bet those people are all glad they have Canadian citizenship right now, because there's going to be a mass exodus in the coming years.

[GLOW]

mass exodus of HK?

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by GLOW

mass exodus of HK?

If you remember, that's why there was such a huge influx of immigrants in the mid 90's. People weren't sure how PRC would treat Hong Kong, and whether the "2 systems 1 country" would work and be honored.. It turned out to seemingly work for quite some time. PRC was basically trying to "woo" Taiwan with the system.

But then they did an about-face on the policies about 5 years ago. It was gradual at first, but now it's getting worse and worse. There are parts of Basic Law that aren't being upheld at all, and the forced cultural influence is taking place at a rapidly increasing pace. The press is being controlled, the media is being controlled, pop culture is being controlled. Even the border is being softened, not just letting in tourists, but now they are planning a development at the border that allows mainland people to live in Hong Kong without a visa at all. The backlash is growing, to the point where the usual July 1 protest drew the biggest crowd ever (over 500,000 people marched).

Since there's really nothing that can be done, it's just going to get worse. People who can leave will leave, unless they are in a position where a mainland-like Hong Kong is beneficial to them (there are plenty of people who don't really care, especially people who care about money more than anything else).

It has really been crazy watching all this happen over the last 10 years. The changes were subtle at first, but are becoming more profound. Now a lot of people I talk to are considering leaving, because they see that it's only going to get worse, not better. If the influence continues at this exponential rate, it's going to be sooner than later.

So yeah, there will be a mass exodus, similar to the mid-90's. I hope Canada and other countries can be welcoming not just to the 'rich people' but those seeking a better life now that theirs is being ruined. As is being discussed in this thread, this is typically a "better" immigrant, as they are moving for cultural reasons rather than monetary reasons. I have no immediate plans to move back, but I definitely will once Hong Kong stops being Hong Kong (and this is inevitable).