CiC...

How did you know or found out that the police "used an excuse" of not matching the owner, to pull you over? Or is this just your assumption?

What rights of yours did they violate? Did they not allow you to speak? Did they threatened you to speak? Did they arrest you on no suspicion of crime? Did they not allowed you an attorney? Did they not read you your rights on your arrest? Did they not allow you to make a phone call?

In this situation you explained, would you rather have your license suspended? Have your car towed and impounded? Not allow your mother to come drive the van? Or would you rather they let you off free, with no fine, no tow, because you've made a mistake but you're a free man on this planet and should be allowed to do whatever you want? Please give an explanation of a fair consequence/punishment in your point of view.

What sort of actions did they used that is considered "profiling" you? Did they follow you home? Was it the same police officers that pulled you over every time? Did they follow you on days of your errand? Were they camping outside your house?

Did you expect the police to singly and individually rule you out to be the special one because you've been pulled over multiple times for the same cause that you've already explained? To completely erase your history of driving without insurance so that you won't get pulled over again? Allow even 1% chance that you might do it again but just completely shrug it off because they should respect your rights?

Do you expect every one to drive without insurance because every one is and should be a good driver? And that no, none, zero, zilch, accidents will ever occur? Pay close attention to this question because I used the word "accidents".

If accidents do occur in your life one day, and the other party is at fault 100%, who do you expect to pay for your medical and repair expenses? If the party can only fork out 0.1% of said expenses, who covers the rest? Do you expect to garnish that person's wage and put that person in debt to you for the rest of his life that won't cover your expenses that is required in the period of months or years because of an "accident" that neither of you wanted?

If you were driving without insurance and I t-boned you at an intersection while you're turning left on a green light, who will pay for my damage? Or would consider that you had every right to turn left without caution and that I pay my own and you pay your own? Do you deem this solution to be fair then?

Please, answer these questions in detailed your most detailed opinion because I sure as hell want to know what your vision of a perfect motor vehicle system is like. Or you don't have to answer them at all, because you have every right to.

Those are many questions... but to get to the root of it... answer a few of mine so I know where to start.

First, was my pull over an arbitrary one?
Second, if it was, do you think the law against being arbitrarily detained should be taken out of the Charter?

i believe the pull over is not an arbitrary one.

Based on the rest of this thread, I'm inclined to believe CiC doesn't answer questions...

-Dave

Yes. To start, they randomly chose your vehicle to look up on their computer. The pull over itself, no, they had a reason to.

Second question is irrelevant to the first because you're talking about being detained, but no it should not be taken out. Randomly detaining people for no reason is an example of police state, which in your case, was not random.

Your turn.

You weren't even detained (legal definition). They pulled you over and asked you some questions because you didn't match the description of the owner.

I've been pulled over driving my GF's car in the middle of the night because I didn't match the her description. I have never had any tickets, criminal history, or any problems with law enforcement at all. What reason did they have to "discriminate" against me? All this time, I was convinced that those nice officers were just doing their job.

The definition of detained should come from the old "Blacks Law" dictionaries.
The case posted earlier talks about police stops like this being against the Charter Rights.
R v Ladouceur - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So whats the count here 3-4 members being pulled over for no reason?

On what reasoning?
The "man driving a borrowed car is probably the same guy with all the tickets and now his license is expired", reasoning?

Even though they caught me on these set of suspicions... would it be okay if they stopped my brother to see if it was me or not?
Excessively pulling over cars to see if family members with expired driver licenses arent behind the wheel... rather police state, isnt it?

Wow.

You honestly think that's what happened? I don't suppose if any of us tell you that isn't the case, and your fears are irrational, you aren't going to change your mind...right?

-Dave

You tell me what happened Dave.

I'd be happy to give you what I, and others, seem to think is an obvious explanation for what happened. But how about you go through the thread and actually take the time to answer the questions we've asked you?

-D

the cops didn't know it was a borrowed car. the cops did not not know its a guy with tickets and license expired.

what the cops would know if they did ran the car before pulling you over is that a female is the registered owner. it's late at night. all they did was pull you over to make sure the van was not stolen. whatever else they find from that is besides the point. they are just DOING their job. it could have been me they pulled over, it could have been Dave, it could have been ANYONE. you are just making a big case about it over nothing.

CiC never answers questions. all he does is deflect, and "answers questions by asking unrelated questions" back.

he can't answer directly because he probably knows the answers won't help his cause.

I have "freeman on the land" rebel status from over a decade ago. This wont alert the police laptop every-time they analyze my cars scan? I think you're being too gullible as to how much information pops up for an officers eyes.
Peeps can highlight these good question if missed over time... now tell us what you think.... the police were thinking when pulling me over.

Mr.stubbz has no rights

Maybe to answer some of Mr.Chin's questions before hand... lets look at the Islamic republics laws on accidents...
Take for insistence the following murder of a women after being run over by an SUV on the sidewalk.
The victims son is here on video saying he only received $400 from the government of Canada. (Some kind of human victims fund for these type of incidences.):smug: edit - actually 400 was the fine the murderer had to pay.

http://www.revscene.net/forums/687674-canadian-courts-fine-driver-$400-after-running-grandmother-over-sidewalk.html

Had that same accident happen in Iran, they may deem a short to almost life long jail time... but the victims family can reduce a sentence, dismiss jail time, or demand what ever figure amount of money (and payment plan) for no jail time.

key words being YOUR cars meaning the car is registered under you. your moms car IS NOT.

but this is Canada. if you wish to be under their laws you are free to move there.

Oh gosh heaven forbid we adopt laws from a country thats been around for thousands upon thousands of years.

When I say my car, that means car in my possession.


Thinking now the laptop may have even alerted an expired license tone, letting the officers know the last person ticked in that car could be driving illegally. So they may have not even taken my profile (how i look) into account before deciding to pull me over.

If you choose not to accept the laws of the land, then to automatically waive any rights you might have had on that land.

/thread.

there is no way a cop can ID ANY person driving ANY vehicle unless THEY pull them over and ask for ID. unless you are talking futuristic bullshit where cops brains are implemented with hard drives and databases to run facial recognition. but that just even goes against your beliefs even more.

Great. It's looked at. Now, answer the questions.

When I said status, I meant on the police laptop... barely anyone has freeman status... except some first nations and I can imagine the local wealthy.

Even if its my mothers van and insurance, which is automatically detected from the cameras to the laptop, my history is attached to that plate. Im not totally sure if that answers your previous comment... others can chime in.

So you just go around assuming that the definition of detain should be from that dictionary. And when you do get detained, you argue like an idiot based on your assumptions?

You don't have to answer that.

Your way of arguing/debating/discussing is the same as one of my friend. He keeps bringing up other stories/cases that is irrelevant to his and another whole topic begins. And he does this every time he is about to be proven wrong (usually with questions) just so it diverts the argument so he can remain in his lala land of "i am right".

I'm talking about him... not you, unless this sounds like you?

You don't have to answer that.

Had they known 100% if it was your brother driving that vehicle, they wouldn't pull him over. Do they 100% know if it was your brother? No. How do they find out 100% if it was you or your brother? By pulling you over. What motive do the police have by pulling you or your brother? To make sure it wasn't you that was driving and if it was, to make sure you had a valid license. Did they made the right choice by pulling you over to check if it was you or your brother?

You don't have to answer the last question.

So because it happened to you on a regular basis, you think police officers are doing that to citizens of Vancouver?

You don't have to answer that, but if your answer is yes, you are truly a moron.

And how much do you know about information being shown on a police laptop? Or are these just your assumption/accusation/suspicion?

You don't have to answer that.

I would say with 99% assurance that they were trying to find out if it was you that was driving and if you had a valid license of not. Did they made the right decision and were they thinking clearly?

You don't have to answer that.

Better yet, answer them first, then we will discuss another topic from another country with another set of laws, rules, and rights.

You should be clear.

If you found and had a gun in possession, do you tell police officers that it's your gun?

If you accidentally took your co-worker's coffee cup and poured coffee in it... do you tell him that it was your cup?

You don't have to answer those. But if your answer is yes to both those question, you are truly a moron and this behavior is similar to a 10 year old's.

Is this your assumption? Do you continue to link one assumption to another to come up with an answer on a regular basis?

You don't have to answer those. But if your answer is yes, please go see a psychologist.

I know for a fact though, that police officers can put notes/comments on a license plate on their laptop. So maybe when they first pulled you over, they noted that a man without license was and probably had been driving this vehicle. This most likely led to the second pull over because they saw a man driving that vehicle.

This is just my assumption, you can completely ignore it if it alters yours.

Wait, so you're dead on sure about the bold statement in this quote? How do you know about this? What evidence/proof do you have that these "cameras" can automatically detect license plate/drivers to the laptop?

You don't have to answer that.

CiC, is it not possible that a vehicle of similar description was reported to the police for, let's say, reckless driving, and that is why you were pulled over?

If the answer is "that is a possibility", then your entire argument is pointless, we should just end the thread, and you can pick a new topic to troll RS with.

If the answer is "I know for a fact that that is not possible, they only pulled me over because they profiled me", then you are delusional.

Or its possible you could have "Stockholm syndrome and are being an apologists for the system.

@mr_chin
You have many questions here... Im sure other members have the answer to a good number of them... its better I wait it out for others to chime in too.