If you want to get all technical... If you're aware of all this and still drive with your needle dead-centre on 50km/hr, you are driving at a speed you know may be up to 2.5% faster than the speed limit (your numbers). To ensure that you do not break the speed limit, it would be incumbent upon you to drive at an indicated speed of 2.5% below 50km/hr to ensure that you don't exceed the posted speed limit.

Could you show me where the MVA says you can exceed the posted limit? I'm not familiar with that section, nor the one that says it's ok to speed if you "do your duty"? .

Here is what I see the Act says
Speed limits
146 (1) Subject to this section, a person must not drive or operate a motor vehicle on a highway in a municipality or treaty lands at a greater rate of speed than 50 km/h, and a person must not drive or operate a motor vehicle on a highway outside a municipality at a greater rate of speed than 80 km/h.

(2) The minister responsible for the administration of the Transportation Act may, by causing a sign to be erected or placed on a highway limiting the rate of speed of motor vehicles or a category of motor vehicles driven or operated on that portion of the highway, increase or decrease the rate of speed at which a person may drive or operate a motor vehicle or a category of motor vehicle on that portion of the highway.
(3) If the minister responsible for the administration of the Transportation Act has caused a sign to be erected or placed on a highway limiting the rate of speed of motor vehicles or a category of motor vehicles driven or operated on that portion of the highway, a person must not, when the sign is in place on the highway, drive or operate a vehicle on that portion of the highway at a greater rate of speed than that indicated on the sign for that category of motor vehicle.
(4) The minister responsible for the administration of the Transportation Act may, by notice in the Gazette, define areas in the unorganized area of British Columbia, and may by causing signs to be erected at the entrance to an area so defined direct the rate of speed at which a person may drive or operate a motor vehicle or a category of motor vehicle in that area, but the rate of speed must not be greater than 60 km/h.
(5) If the minister responsible for the administration of the Transportation Act has caused signs to be erected or placed on a highway in accordance with subsection (4), a person must not, when the sign is in place on the highway, drive or operate a vehicle on a highway at a greater rate of speed than that indicated on the sign for that category of motor vehicle, unless another sign on a specific highway in the defined area so indicates.
(6) Subject to subsections (2) and (3), a municipality may by bylaw direct the rate of speed at which a person may drive or operate a motor vehicle on a highway in the municipality.
(7) If, under a bylaw adopted by a municipality or a law enacted by a treaty first nation, signs have been erected or placed on a highway limiting the rate of speed of motor vehicles driven or operated on a designated portion of the highway, a person must not, when the sign is in place on the highway, drive or operate a motor vehicle on that portion of the highway at a greater rate of speed than that indicated on the sign.y.
.

You do not know the variable, and if you travel at 2.5km/h under the speed limit you may present yourself as a greater risk on the road. You work with the information you are given, which is the indicated vehicle speed on your dash. The same indicated speed that police use to "pace" a car and issue a ticket.

MVA does not say you can drive faster than the posted speed limit, and driving an indicated 50km/h on your dash is not exceeding the speed limit. Its rather simple, not sure why it is you have a hard time understanding this.

If you drive your car at an indicated speed of 50km/h on your dash, you are within the legal limit of the posted speed. If there is a deviation (which there is in EVER vehicle ever produced) you are unable to compensate, so by all definitions you are driving at the speed limit as indicated HOWEVER you COULD be travelling up to 2.5km/h faster OR slower than the indicated speed on your dash. This is not a variable you are to account for as you do not know.
100% of vehicles are inaccurately travelling at speed, you cant do it accurately. 100% of people speed (according to you that is) even if they never exceed the posted speed limit as indicated on there dash. This is why a photo radar camera has a built in buffer (often times 6-10km/h above the posted speed limit). EVERY officer I have EVER meet does just the same, no one tickets for 1km/h over the posted speed.
If you wish to continue the debate, I suggest that you contact the DOT who allows for these variables in every motor vehicle ever produced.

So ticketing for a speed of 51 in a 50 is easily fight-able and win-able if this was indeed the ticked offence.

J862: Factors Affecting Accuracy of Mechanically Driven Automotive Speedometer - Odometers - SAE International

Have a read, these are the people responsible for the testing and standards of ever component used in a vehicle. If a vehicle is operating in its intended parameters with no defect and is issued a ticket regardless of this fact its a very easy thing to fight.

I think we all understand that speeding is an absolute liability and that 1km/h over the limit is still speeding...

But if your speedo is within parameters (the +/- 2.5% proven above), and given the parallax effect of the needle (a 5 degree change in viewing angle of the needle could EASILY cause a 5% difference in speed), it's impossible to 100% accurately gauge the speed that you are going. Not to mention that you would have to drive UNDER the speed limit (dangerously) to avoid a ticket like this. I believe the issuing officer is wasting both the driver's and his own time.

Take it to court, easy win, and I doubt the judge would be happy about the officer issuing this ticket anyway. 1km/r over just brings too many factors into the equation that can easily be debatable in court.

I don't know why you have a hard time understanding absoloute liability. Saying my speedo showed 50kmh does not exempt you from the legal requirement to NOT exceed 50kmh...IF you actually are exceeding 50 kmh. Show me above where it says what you said. It's nice to see that you also agree with my previous statements that you, under normal circumstances, will never be charged for doing just 1 kmh over the limit.

As far as photo radar goes....that was a political decision made by the NDP to permit people to exceed the posted limits by at least 10 kmh before they issued tickets. The effect was to let people think that they could drive 10 over and not be speeding....so they did and added their normal 10+ above that. You may not know that some jurisdictions issue tickets for as little as 4kmh over the limit. New Zealand lowers the speed tolerance during holidays and holiday weekends and start writing at 4kmh over their limits....for photo radar and Police operations.

BTW travelling 2.5 kmh under the limit presents a "greater risk on the road"? To most vehicles that would not even be able to be seen on a needle speedo. You also might not know that ICBC requires road test students to drive that same "risky speed" you just noted, while they are doing their road test. 1-2kmh over is marked as "speed maintainance" error and is marked against you. Do more than 3 k over and you are in "violation" and will fail the test for speeding...but then what do I know? I'm just a licenced driving/riding instructor.

I doubt a cop would bother unless he was grabbing you for something else.
A lot of paper work for 1 km over. A lot of the members know will not bother unless you are doing 20 over.

In fact it does, and will. Put it in front a judge and you will see. If your speedo indicates 50km/h you are not exceeding 50km/h....just like your students and every other road user does. The issue is that 50 (on any vehicle) is not in fact 50 and never will be.
I could care less what your job is, but since we are mentioning this, I am a parts specialist for Toyota Canada (and formerly other very large auto makers). I have personally dealt with this EXACT issue in the past on behalf of the companies I work for.
I have SEEN it first hand go through the legal channels, and to make it very clear, you are correct speeding is speeding, however operating a vehicle at 50km/h as indicated on the dash is not speeding if you are clocked at 51 due to the variables that are ALLOWED according to the SAE/DOT of which the MVA is designed to uphold.

So, if you have personal and documented experience please show me, because I do, and if taken to court it will be thrown out. Perhaps talk to an officer and see what they are trained to ticket at, because they are told not to with such a small variable in speed.

If I'm not mistaken, the officer is not required to indicate the speed you were clocked at on the ticket.
Also, the OP never mentioned if it was noted on the ticket that he was ticketed for going exactly 1km/hr over the speed limit. If it's not, there is nothing to suggest that the officer gave the ticket for that and at the roadside, the friend may have misunderstood "I am giving you a ticket for going at least 1km/h over the speed limit" as "I am giving you a ticket for going 1km/h over the limit".

You'll probably loose in court unless the officer specifically indicated anywhere on the ticket that you were being busted for going exactly 1km/h over as opposed to going over 1km/h faster which can mean basically any speed above 50km/h.

Yes, true. I mean, I'm saying that the tire/wheel has to be obviously way off (like putting incorrect sized wheels and tires), such that it exceeded the 5% tolerance of the speedo.

It doesn't make much sense to enforce the 1 km/h over 50 because of the administration process fees just to do that. Maybe could be some justifications for doing it in a school zone where it's going 1 over 30 km/h / 20 mph; that's the part where I seen on TV on the news that cops have done that or it is the fact that the drivers were going more than that and were fined for the 1 over to get the minimum fine just what other members have mentioned in this thread.

How about 28 years as an RCMP Member, all but 2 in Traffic, qualified Radar-Laser operator, senior instructor in the Police MC Course, driving instructor since the early 1990s and a Supreme Court recognized "expert"...and I've successfully prosecuted hundreds of tickets in that period... that enough?

"Cool story bro"....and how many 1km/h over tickets did you issue in your 28 years of working for the RCMP?

Little story, I know doctors with 50 years of experience that used to recommend smoking as a "healthy" thing to do. They cant be wrong right? After all, they have 50 years of experience in that field.

But no, having a job where you hand out tickets on something you are not informed well enough to make a proper judgement call is not enough. 2 years or 28 years makes no difference if you did it wrong. If you handed out any 1km/h over tickets then you were "that guy" but I don't think that you did hand out 1km/h over tickets.

Are you aware, that in the 90's the DOT and SAE standards for tachometers was 7% variance between actual speed and road speed? I would assume you would be up on all of this seeing as you are an "expert" on the subject. If not take a look at the link I provided, the one from the people who make the vehicle standards that the MVA is there to back with its rules/laws.

But seeing as you are a qualified operator, what is the deviation in the existing speed reading equipment?

Having the wrong wheel/tires on the car ends up being the vehicle operators issue so if ticked and they try and fight they would loose because they altered there vehicle outside its operating perimeters.

As for a school zone, at 30km/h you could see a deviation of (max) 1.5km/h+/- but most would be closer to .75km/h deviation or 2.5% which would still register as 30 on radar or laser as 30. So for all intensive purposes, you should never exceed 30 in a school zone, even by 1km/h if you are driving at the proper indicated speed.

See my previous posts concerning the displayed speeds. Also see my previous comments about 1km tickets. You might also be interested in knowing that I have convicted numerous drivers who tried the "my speedo said I was not speeding" defence. Judge usually commented that it was....wait for it....an absoloute liability charge and it was up to the driver to not speed.

I asked Saanich Police once if they could do a speedometer verification against one of their laser guns. "Sorry, we can't do that" was their response. So I guess drivers have no real way to determine the accuracy of their speedometers.

Many times I've passed one of the speed reader boards and there have been large discrepancies between the sign and my speedometer - briefly the reader board matches my speedometer as the readings swing from 5k under my indicated to well over 10k over.

As for the "absolute liability" nonsense, please tell me how you feel it's reasonable for the driver to be expected to know his "actual" speed (or as "actual" as your measurement device is...) when the only instrument he has to reference is the speedometer which is permitted by regulation to be inaccurate by a %?

Still waiting for this. ZT has conveniently quoted large sections of the MVA, please highlight the relevant parts.

Edit: wondered why it took so long for sebberry to get in on this... was starting to think he'd hacked BoostedBB6's account.

Its simple, its backed by the fact that if your vehicle is travelling at an indicated speed, it is in fact travelling at that indicated speed.

I wish I could provide the documents regarding all of this, but because its company information they will not allow it to be published in a public forum.
When the Prius unintended acceleration claims started, Toyota Canada was put under the knife and this was one of the things they had to provide, which was used in the legal proceedings.

The simple answer, if your vehicle is travelling at 50km/h, as indicated on your dash, you are pulled over and ticked for doing 51km/h, you have full and total legal grounds to fight it and with the backing of every auto maker on the planet, the DOT and SAE as well as TUV in Europe.

zulutango, its a simple question. How many motor vehicle operators have YOU issued a speeding violation for doing 1km/h over the posted speed limit? With your 28 years of experience I'm sure you have seen thousands of vehicles travelling 1km/h over the posted speed so that should indicate thousands of violations handed out and convicted......right?

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/i...Du41ecrKLfoBSt

+

http://i.istockimg.com/file_thumbvie...ter-50-kmh.jpg

= LEGAL

You are doing an indicated 50km/h with a max speed of 50km/h

Add a variable of 2.5% (1km/h)

And waiting...

When the MVA specifies that a driver must not exceed the posted limit, does it specify the speed as measured by a specific device?

When the ONLY information the driver has at his disposal is the speedometer, then it's a stretch to specify another instrument.

Doesn't release Boosted from needing to back up his claim that the MVA supports his statements... :considered:

MVA says to must not exceed the speed limit. If you are travelling at the speed limit as indicated by your instruments, you are not exceeding it. Highlight any part that says a speed. If the dash indicates 50km/h you are doing the posted speed limit.

Only way this does not work is if you have modified the vehcile to make the factory equipment not work within specifications.

Here is what I see the Act says
Speed limits
146 (1) Subject to this section, a person must not drive or operate a motor vehicle on a highway in a municipality or treaty lands at a greater rate of speed than 50 km/h, and a person must not drive or operate a motor vehicle on a highway outside a municipality at a greater rate of speed than 80 km/h.

(2) The minister responsible for the administration of the Transportation Act may, by causing a sign to be erected or placed on a highway limiting the rate of speed of motor vehicles or a category of motor vehicles driven or operated on that portion of the highway, increase or decrease the rate of speed at which a person may drive or operate a motor vehicle or a category of motor vehicle on that portion of the highway.
(3) If the minister responsible for the administration of the Transportation Act has caused a sign to be erected or placed on a highway limiting the rate of speed of motor vehicles or a category of motor vehicles driven or operated on that portion of the highway, a person must not, when the sign is in place on the highway, drive or operate a vehicle on that portion of the highway at a greater rate of speed than that indicated on the sign for that category of motor vehicle.
(4) The minister responsible for the administration of the Transportation Act may, by notice in the Gazette, define areas in the unorganized area of British Columbia, and may by causing signs to be erected at the entrance to an area so defined direct the rate of speed at which a person may drive or operate a motor vehicle or a category of motor vehicle in that area, but the rate of speed must not be greater than 60 km/h.
(5) If the minister responsible for the administration of the Transportation Act has caused signs to be erected or placed on a highway in accordance with subsection (4), a person must not, when the sign is in place on the highway, drive or operate a vehicle on a highway at a greater rate of speed than that indicated on the sign for that category of motor vehicle, unless another sign on a specific highway in the defined area so indicates.
(6) Subject to subsections (2) and (3), a municipality may by bylaw direct the rate of speed at which a person may drive or operate a motor vehicle on a highway in the municipality.
(7) If, under a bylaw adopted by a municipality or a law enacted by a treaty first nation, signs have been erected or placed on a highway limiting the rate of speed of motor vehicles driven or operated on a designated portion of the highway, a person must not, when the sign is in place on the highway, drive or operate a motor vehicle on that portion of the highway at a greater rate of speed than that indicated on the sign.y.


So if a vehicle is travelling at the maximum defined speeds according to the law. Is doing so with a properly function vehicle that is within all the standards set forth by the SAE/DOT/TUV and the speed indicated on the speed measuring device (speedometer) is indicating that maximum speed allowed by the posed signs then they are within the letter of the law as far as travelling, not in excess of the posted speed limit.
The discussion is weather that is accurate, and I know for a fact it is not. There is no 100% accurate speed measuring device that exists in any vehicle. There is a margin of error in EVERY device (speedo, radar, laser etc).

Again, I ask any officer to speak up if they have in fact issues a speeding ticket for exceeding the posted speed limit by 1km/h. If not, then they are arguing a point that is a non-point simply for the sake of a debate. Regardless, if the OP's friend was ticked for 1km/h over and honest to goodness was infact ticked for just that and not for a speed far greater yet told something else, then you should fight it based upon the fact that there is enough mechanical error built into the speed reading devices (both in your own vehicle and the systems in others) that you can not account for a variance of a 1km/h.

Another interesting thing to mention, European car manufacturers are required by law to have an error that only reads higher than the actual speed (eg. indicated 100mph, actual speed 93mph).
This is the direction all others are being pushed but as of this moment, any Asian or American car maker is allowed up to 5% variance +/- to the indicated speed on the instruments.