Termination via E-mail

[R1CED`]

Employment Standards Act seems to really emphasis it must be done in writing. Forget the professionalism/common courtesy aspect, the big question is: are E-mails considered an official way to terminate someone?

Reason was not just cause, recent availability change on my end..I'm only P/T. As you can imagine, I'm trying to get severance. Good terms with the office, zero warnings/signs. I haven't spoken to the manager yet. They also let an associate go weeks prior because an agreement to buy out the practice was not reached.

Don't know if it makes a difference but no contracts were signed when I was hired. Asian small-medium sized business in private health sector, no unions or anything.

[XplicitLuder]

if no contract..doesnt that technically mean you werent even "working" for them

[lowside67]

Emails are unusual as they cannot prove you received it. Were you terminated for "cause" or because there just isn't work? How long did you work there?

Mark

[Inaii]

Did they give you any notice? If you're a legitimate employee (regardless of PT or FT) I believe if they give you no notice they are required by law to pay you severance (unless you get fired for just cause). When Grand & Toy laid us all off, we had to have worked there for 5 years before we saw any kind of severance. I got nothing because they gave us over 6 weeks notice that our store would be closing.

[R1CED`]

I've been there 15 months

I was working only every other weekend for a while, then they asked me to pick up someone elses shifts and I did. But I had to modify it a bit few months in and they said ok. But now apparently they can't find someone to only work that one day I'm not there, they are just gonna find someone else new to take my shifts entirely. Like, with zero discussion with me. Sounds complicated yet?

no this E-mail is that two week notice. Just strange it wasn't a letter in-person. It's like breaking up over a text message. Which is why I wanna tell them I won't accept the E-mail because it isn't in an official document and I expect a 2 week severance and ROE for suddenly cutting me off.

[lowside67]

Originally Posted by R1CED`

So this E-mail is that two week notice. Just strange it wasn't a letter in-person. It's like breaking up over a text message. Which is why I wanna tell them I won't accept the E-mail because it isn't in an official document and I expect a 2 week severance and ROE for suddenly cutting me off.

First of all, you will get an ROE regardless, it is a legal requirement no matter how you stop working there.

Second of all, did they say in the email that you have to work for 2 more weeks or just don't come in Monday? Telling you that you have to work for 2 more weeks = all the notice they are required to give you.

Mark

[6793026]

You are also only part time.

Technically they can put you on part time for 4 hours a week and slowly phase you out.

[R1CED`]

Originally Posted by lowside67

Second of all, did they say in the email that you have to work for 2 more weeks or just don't come in Monday? Telling you that you have to work for 2 more weeks = all the notice they are required to give you.

Yep 2 weeks. E-mail just seems inappropriate which is why I created the thread asking if they are considered official documents (not even an document attachment, right in the body of an Email).

Originally Posted by 6793026

You are also only part time.

Technically they can put you on part time for 4 hours a week and slowly phase you out.

I dont think P/T or F/T matters when it comes down to termination notice/serverance. Yes they could do that, just like how you can give two week notice when quitting or tell your tenants to leave in 30 days and it's all still by the book as a minimal requirement. Never mind having a discussion first before considering termination, I think most that do HR would agree two week notices are insufficient and it's common courtesy may be even standard practice to give more buffer time. So terminating without just cause, I felt they could've given mfe more time to transition out. It's not like I'm bleeding them money by keeping me a little longer; my position is production based...they profit majority of what I produce for the practice (pretty standard in my field)

[lowside67]

Dude, they gave you 2 weeks notice, you are not entitled to any more money and you're SOL. The fact they gave it to you by email is immaterial... other than you going to go to the labour board at the end of 2 weeks when they ask for your key and then saying"wtf I never received the email" which would be pretty shady and shitty seeing as you clearly did.

Mark

[R1CED`]

Originally Posted by lowside67

The fact they gave it to you by email is immaterial.

No compensation is required if an employee is given advance written notice of termination equal to the number of weeks for which the employee is eligible. This notice must be in writing.

https://www.labour.gov.bc.ca/esb/fac...ermination.htm

it's really emphasized, but still unclear if a body of an e-mail is considered official. I will call them tomorrow directly and confirm.

Originally Posted by lowside67

other than you going to go to the labour board at the end of 2 weeks when they ask for your key and then saying"wtf I never received the email" which would be pretty shady and shitty seeing as you clearly did.

no that's a complete cop out. I absolutely hate it when people use that excuse so I won't stoop that low.

[lowside67]

Originally Posted by R1CED`

As you can imagine, I'm trying to get severance.

Originally Posted by R1CED`

no that's a complete cop out, i wouldn't do that.

I am sorry dude, I am still unclear what exactly you are after.

As an employee who has worked for 15 months, you are entitled to 2 weeks of any combination of 1) Working Notice or 2) Compensation/Severance at the employer's choice. From what you said above, they sent you an email saying "you have 2 weeks left to work and then we no longer need you." That's 2 weeks of Working Notice - you aren't entitled to anything else, period.

The fact it was by email makes absolutely no difference - either they provided notice, or they did not. If they did, then you got the 2 weeks notice you should have, case closed. Since you clearly know you are getting laid off, the only way they "didn't" provide notice is if you pretend you didn't get it.

I don't know why you are phoning somebody - it's not like they are going to say "oh, they emailed you instead of registered mail - okay, you get 4 weeks!"

Mark

[R1CED`]

Do I wish to pursue severance? Yes. Am I gonna lie just to get it? No.

Method of notice does matter. ie. verbal wouldn't count.

A little update: They've asked me to work an extra day but before the two week period ends. The manager said she'd have no problem giving me a ROE but would have to check on the accountant on severance.

Few hours later she tells me no go on both. No ROE because I'm self-contracted. I did start my position by invoicing them monthly but the last little while I've been submitting timsheets.

RC4110 - Employee or Self-employed?

Termination without just cause. OK fine. Not being courteous or professional about it, annoying but I will accept what's the law. Now being unfair and not providing proper documentation required by law, yep kicking me while i'm down.

[lowside67]

Originally Posted by R1CED`

Few hours later she tells me no go on both. No ROE because I'm self-contracted. I did start my position by invoicing them monthly but the last little while I've been submitting timsheets.

Monthly invoice or timesheet is not what determines whether you get an ROE. You get an ROE if you are an employee of the company - ie they issue you a paycheque, withhold deductions which they submit to CRA, pay a portion of CPP & EI, and issue you a T4 at year end. If that is how you are paid, you are an employee and they are required to provide an ROE, no question about it.

If they were just giving you a cheque and not deducting anything, then you were contracting and as such do not get an ROE as you were never personally working for them, in essence your "company" was - and companies do not get ROEs nor unemployment benefits typically.

Originally Posted by R1CED`

Do I wish to pursue severance? Yes.

Termination without just cause. OK fine. Not being courteous or professional about it, annoying but I will accept what's the law. Now being unfair and not providing proper documentation required by law, yep kicking me while i'm down.

Can you please just answer one simple question. WHAT DIFFERENCE IS IT TO YOU WHETHER THEY SENT A REGISTERED LETTER VS AN EMAIL?!? The fact of the matter is you'd still have 2 weeks to find a new job, you'd still be getting fired, literally NOTHING CHANGES. I don't get why this is somehow unfair or even a question. Did you get notice? Yes, you've admitted it here. So case closed...

Mark

[R1CED`]

official documentation of notice = employer not required to give severance

when I used to be in mgmt and we fired someone, a letter was given in-person and another colleague would be present as witness.

That's going a step further but a body of an E-mail opens up the possibility of severance even if I'm notified in advance through unofficial means.

[lowside67]

Originally Posted by R1CED`

official documentation of notice = employer not required to give severance

You are confused. "Severance pay" does not exist under BC labour code. Period.

There are 2 ways to fire a person: 1) For Cause and 2) With Notice

You told us you were fired with notice (the email). After being fired with notice, there are only 2 options:

Option 1) You are told in writing (ie an email) that you have 2 weeks left to work, you work for 2 weeks, you get paid for those 2 weeks, and then you are done.

Option 2) You are told do NOT come in, we will give you compensation instead of notice. You get paid for the 2 weeks that you would have otherwise worked.

From what I understood, the employer emailed you and said you have 2 weeks left to work, then you are fired. If that's the case, then you will work those 2 weeks, get paid for those 2 weeks, and that's the end of it. It makes 0 difference whether that was an email or not, that's notice.

Mark

[meme405]

You really just don't get how this works. Lowside is bang on the money.

Also severance for contractors remains a pretty foggy issue at best. To be a contractor you are supposed to be marketing your services to other companies all the time. It is understood that you could work for multiple companies on an on-going basis. With that said it is also understood that contractors are normally much more temporary figures within a company. AKA they are hired on a project basis, or for shorter intervals to meet certain needs.

If a company needs someone on a full time basis for an extended period of time, they would probably just hire someone, not hire a contractor.

Needless to say contractors are much less likely to be entitled to severance.

[quasi]

Take everyone's advice, cut your losses and move on because you aren't getting severance as a part time employee and you aren't getting it as a contractor it's not exactly 100% clear which one you were but it's irrelevant.

[R1CED`]

Meme what you described with projects probably pertains more to construction and development. In health sector the care of patients are continuous and ongoing and this is standard. I'm currently working at multiple practices.

Upon further consideration, I will take the high road and thank the practice in question for their time and allowing me to be part of their team. One of my family put it best, don't be the bitter ex or a salty motherfucker. I've left a few places good and bad and even if I don't believe things were unfair or I was may be even taken advantage of (previous work), I feel self-advocacy is paramount but ultimately I don't burn my bridges.

Thanks all for your input.

[Adorkami]

Originally Posted by R1CED`

Do I wish to pursue severance? Yes. Am I gonna lie just to get it? No.

Method of notice does matter. ie. verbal wouldn't count.

A little update: They've asked me to work an extra day but before the two week period ends. The manager said she'd have no problem giving me a ROE but would have to check on the accountant on severance.

Few hours later she tells me no go on both. No ROE because I'm self-contracted. I did start my position by invoicing them monthly but the last little while I've been submitting timsheets.

RC4110 - Employee or Self-employed?

Termination without just cause. OK fine. Not being courteous or professional about it, annoying but I will accept what's the law. Now being unfair and not providing proper documentation required by law, yep kicking me while i'm down.

If you were a contractor there is no such thing as severance. I'm a contractor and I submit an invoice to the company that uses me. They could tell me they no longer need my services and that would be it. It doesn't matter if you decided to use a time sheet instead of an invoice as a way of tracking your hours. Consider it nice of them for giving you notice and offering you a chance to pick up a few more hours before they no longer need your services. If you plan on contracting more often in the future you may want to talk to an accountant as it seems you may not be prepared and it would suck for the CRA to go after you later down the road.

[meme405]

Originally Posted by R1CED`

Meme what you described with projects probably pertains more to construction and development. In health sector the care of patients are continuous and ongoing and this is standard. I'm currently working at multiple practices.

Although what I described might have been based on my experience, there is no difference between a contractor in my field or your field.

It is very simple the CRA has a series of questions, if you answer yes to more than a few of those questions they consider you an employee and not a contractor.

The list of questions is here:

Do you know if your worker is an employee or a self-employed

I highly suggest you have a look at it and determine which you are, an employee or a contractor. If you fuck this up the CRA could really drop the hammer on you in an audit.