Quebec City to ban pit bulls

[DragonChi]

Originally Posted by westopher

It wouldn't be hard to do some sort of licensing programs for animals similar to drivers licenses. It could cost quite a bit of money, but could also bring in enough revenue to pay for it if done properly.
That said, everyone who owns a dog, not just pits should be required to take it, as plenty of dipshits are incapable of taking care of the dogs they own, big or small.
Monty has been attacked by 3 off leash dogs, none of them pitbulls, while he was on leash.
A shepherd looking mutt that was about 30-40 lbs more than him, a sharpei, and a black lab, who actually attacked him twice in succession. Going for a bite, being warned off by Monty, then coming back and biting him on the neck before I kicked it.
They were all owned by fucking idiots, and the dogs actions have no bearing on wether their breeds are safe or not, because when improperly handled, trained, and treated, all dogs have potential to be dangerous.

I agree that licensing would cost more, and in turn would stave away the idiots wouldn't treat and train them as the family members they should be. The cost of buy a dog should be a lot more than what it is now, most of the cost going to training and making sure the dog gets into a good home. There are dogs out there, just like people, that have a mean streak that don't get along with other dogs, people, or both. I don't think they can be all painted with the same brush, but with training, I bet a lot of aggression can be minimized.

[vitaminG]

Wouldn't be surprised to see something like this locally. Would be interested to see objective data from other areas with bans in place. I suspect that pitbulls are responsible for a disproportionate amount of bites and severe injuries.

I saw what was posted about Ontario and I see that bites from other breeds went up. But I know I'd much rather be attacked by a golden or a gsd. You can't deny what pitbulls were bred for and they can physically do a lot more damage than other breeds.

'Dog hunt' underway in Surrey for pit bull that attacked woman

Robin Elgie finally home after devastating dog attack - British Columbia - CBC News

[westopher]

Well its already been determined by a witness that the dog today was an american bulldog, so theres that. Perfect example of why people are afraid of these dogs. Because as soon as any dog bites, they claim its a pitbull.
People, especially the media, need to shut the fuck up about shit they know nothing about.
Guess what, this isn't a pitbull, but thats what its called as soon as it bites. Thats why the general public should have no bearing on these discriminatory laws. Because they don't know fuck all.

Oh yeah, and the second article you posted, also, the bylaw department determined both the dogs breed was also american bulldog.
So both of the articles you posted, about 3 attacking dogs the public believes are pitbulls, none of them are. Shouldn't that have some bearing on this situation?

[westopher]

Also, under the breed specific laws that quebec is implementing, all these dogs must be killed, or removed from the province, and all are identified as pitbulls. The one that looks least like a pit, with the curly hair actually has measurable staffy DNA which is hilarious

[underscore]

Originally Posted by vitaminG

Wouldn't be surprised to see something like this locally. Would be interested to see objective data from other areas with bans in place. I suspect that pitbulls are responsible for a disproportionate amount of bites and severe injuries.

I saw what was posted about Ontario and I see that bites from other breeds went up. But I know I'd much rather be attacked by a golden or a gsd. You can't deny what pitbulls were bred for and they can physically do a lot more damage than other breeds.

'Dog hunt' underway in Surrey for pit bull that attacked woman

Robin Elgie finally home after devastating dog attack - British Columbia - CBC News

Assuming by gsd you mean German Shepard, they're involved in more biting incidents and do similar damage to a pitbull. Have you never seen one of those videos of a police dog in action?

This is the only pitbull anybody should be banning

[whitev70r]

Ban them in Surrey too. Or should we ban stupid people from owning them?

Surrey pit bull attack leaves woman with serious injuries - British Columbia - CBC News

A 65-year-old woman was taken to hospital with serious injuries after being attacked by a dog outside a convenience store in the 9100 block of 120 Street in Surrey.

Police say the woman was walking in the area "when she was attacked, unprovoked, by an unleashed grey and white pit bull dog."

The dog and its owner have not been located and police are investigating whether they fled the scene.

The owner is described as Caucasian male, late 30s to 40s, heavier build, wearing a black tank top, black sweat pants and black baseball hat.

[originalhypa]

Dear Pit Bull lovers.
Now you know how it feels to be a lawful gun owner in Canada. I'm sorry you're going through the same bullshit that we are.

Originally Posted by whitev70r

Ban them in Surrey too. Or should we ban stupid people from owning them?

well said.

[westopher]

Originally Posted by whitev70r

Ban them in Surrey too. Or should we ban stupid people from owning them?

Surrey pit bull attack leaves woman with serious injuries - British Columbia - CBC News

A 65-year-old woman was taken to hospital with serious injuries after being attacked by a dog outside a convenience store in the 9100 block of 120 Street in Surrey.

Police say the woman was walking in the area "when she was attacked, unprovoked, by an unleashed grey and white pit bull dog."

The dog and its owner have not been located and police are investigating whether they fled the scene.

The owner is described as Caucasian male, late 30s to 40s, heavier build, wearing a black tank top, black sweat pants and black baseball hat.

If you would read you'd already know that it's been determined by a witness who has met the suspect that it's an American bulldog. Fucking idiots who spread "news" around without checking real facts who are on a witch hunt are the reason I have the threat of a family member being taken away from me.

[westopher]

Originally Posted by originalhypa

Dear Pit Bull lovers.
Now you know how it feels to be a lawful gun owner in Canada. I'm sorry you're going through the same bullshit that we are.



well said.

Comparing a gun to a living animal is painfully stupid.
That said I'd welcome special licensing for any large dog.

[originalhypa]

Originally Posted by westopher

Comparing a gun to a living animal is painfully stupid.
That said I'd welcome special licensing for any large dog.

Really?
Do you want to get into this with me, even though I'm supporting Pit Bulls?

fuck...... here goes.

I've owned two pits in my time. One was the sweetest dog in the world. The other, well, he was insane. He was bred to protect a drug house, and I got him as a rescue. We spent the best part of a year trying to rehab him, with no luck. And why? Because he was trained to be a weapon. A fucking weapon.....

Now the other pit, he was a sweet animal. Raised from a pup by us, he had a heart of gold. So nurture overcame nature that time.

Let's look at the history of pits, shall we.....

Pit bulls were created by breeding bulldogs and terriers together to produce a dog that combined the gameness and agility of the terrier with the strength of the bulldog. In the United Kingdom, these dogs were used in blood sports such as bull-baiting, bear-baiting and cock fighting.

oooh, rough history there..... let's go on, shall we.

These blood sports were officially eliminated in 1835 as Britain began to introduce animal welfare laws. Since dogfights were cheaper to organize and far easier to conceal from the law than bull or bear baits, blood sport proponents turned to pitting their dogs against each other instead. Dog fighting was used as both a blood sport (often involving gambling) and a way to continue to test the quality of their stock. For decades afterwards, dog fighting clandestinely took place in small areas of Britain and America. In the early 20th century pit bulls were used as catch dogs in America for semi-wild cattle and hogs, to hunt, and drive livestock, and as family companions.[3] Some have been selectively bred for their fighting prowess.[4][5]

As you may have heard, dog fighting is still quite popular in the southern US. What's the main breed for fighting?

It's the Pit Bull.


There are a lot of nice pit bulls out there. But also a lot of mean ones as this poor woman in Surrey found out. The difference comes down to not only the owner, but also the dog's personality and bloodline. Kind of like gun owners, if you think about it.

edit: thanks for removing your fail. I'm trying to get rid of the fails. They do nothing to promote good conversation.

[westopher]

A lot of mean ones is pretty generous numbers wise. How many pits, or dogs like pits are in the Gvrd?
How many bite?
How many are actually even pitbulls?

You can talk all you want about bloodlines from 1893, but do you seriously think this law targets purebred fighting pits? No chance.
It targets every short haired mutt in the shelter system.
There was no nurture overcoming nature. It was simply a product of both. There was no nature involved in the other rescue other than its strength. It was simply new nurture couldn't overcome old nurture from its formative years.

[originalhypa]

That dog was broken from the start, that's for sure.
So what to do with an animal like that? We sent him to a farm up north, where he was going to protect the livestock. I never heard from him again, but what is the alternative? To put those problem dogs down? I hate to say it, but there aren't many farms up north willing to take troubled animals. That may be the only alternative.

But in this case, regardless of breed the gov't needs to step in and not allow problem owners to have dogs anymore. If you have a history with animals attacking, you have shown that you're not a responsible dog owner and you shouldn't be allowed to own even a pomeranian.

But that would be hard to enforce.

[westopher]

I'd like to be very clear here, if a dog is proven a threat, I think they should be put down. I'm not a "save all dogs" kind of activist. I understand what being realistic about the situation entail.
That said, a dog being a pitbull, or looking like a pitbull, is not a fair basis for determining if it is a threat. That's what BSL is about. Laziness to bandaid a problem.

[whitev70r]

Originally Posted by westopher

If you would read you'd already know that it's been determined by a witness who has met the suspect that it's an American bulldog. Fucking idiots who spread "news" around without checking real facts who are on a witch hunt are the reason I have the threat of a family member being taken away from me.

Source? Every article I read says it was a Pit Bull.

[westopher]

That's because it's a witness account personally on FB. According to media it's the same thing anyways, so don't expect a retraction. It's just like last year when the "pitbull" killed the cocker spaniel in Yaletown. It was a mastiff/lab cross. After everyone forgot about it global posted the "new" facts somewhere buried on the bottom of their website. People love to hate shit, so as long as PITBULL ATTACK generates shares and ad revenue, every dog bite starts out as a pitbull.
Edit: excuse my first response, as unless you were fully reading my posts you'd have no reason to know that, but seeing people perpetuate the circle of bullshit about these dogs gets me absolutely fuming.
Think if someone judged your family member as dangerous and suggesting that they be banned and/or killed simply because they shared physical characteristics with a FEW bad dogs out of literally hundreds of thousands. That's not ok.

[Gucci Mane]

and one of my worst nightmare's just may become a reality. fucking great...

SURREY — Surrey’s mayor says the city will be reviewing its dangerous dog bylaw following two attacks in just 10 days.

“When you see it on the news, you wonder what the pulse of the community is,” Mayor Linda Hepner told the Now on Tuesday. “Are our penalties stiff enough?… What else could our bylaw be saying that could potentially keep us safer from the kind of attacks we saw yesterday?”

Hepner was referring to a dog attack outside the Mac’s convenience store at 92nd Avenue and Scott Road Monday morning, where Surrey RCMP say an off-leash dog attacked a 65-year-old woman.

A store clerk told the Now that the damage to the woman’s arm was so bad he could see her bone. Surrey RCMP say the woman was taken to hospital with injuries to her forearm.

Police say the dog's owner, who was inside the Mac's store at the time of the attack, grabbed his dog and ran away.

RCMP are working with the City of Surrey’s Animal Control office to find the dog and owner. He is described as a Caucasian male, late 30s to early 40s, with a heavier build, wearing a black tank top, black sweat pants and a black baseball hat.

Anyone with more information is asked to contact the Surrey RCMP at 604-599-0502 or Crime Stoppers, if they wish to remain anonymous, at 1-800-222-TIPS or go to solvecrime.ca.

Ten days earlier, on June 10, four women were rushed to hospital after they tried to break up three pit bulls who were fighting. Media reports say the dogs were put down.

Hepner said so far, she’s hearing from the community that most people hold the dog owners responsible, as opposed to a particular breed of dog. But she plans to bring the matter up at Monday’s council meeting and has a meeting with the city’s bylaw manager earlier that day.

“That would be the least we could expect,” she said. “I will ask staff to re-examine our existing bylaw.”

Hepner said she’d want to consider everything before looking at an outright ban on a particular breed, adding she wants experts in animal control to weigh in.

“My brother had a pit bull for 20 years and that dog was the most docile, gentle animal,” said Hepner. “But I can tell you they spent a lot of time with that dog… Even good responsible owners, if it turns, what it the catalyst? How do you control that?”

SIMPSON: I've lost patience for hypocritical mourners and entitled dog owners

This isn’t the first time the city has had to reconsider this particular bylaw.

Surrey’s bylaw manager Jas Rehal said most municipalities used to mention specific breeds in their bylaw, but around 2000, many began changing the wording to “dangerous dog” instead of just certain types.

“From our perspective the dangerous dog bylaw is good because it covers all breeds,” noted Rehal. “There are some dogs that are the bigger ones and are concerning to people but there are also smaller dogs that are very aggressive too, so this covers them all.”

Rehal said Surrey had 327 reported dog attacks in 2015 but added that those range from a dog lunging at another dog to full-on attacks like seen in Surrey recently.

“So these can be very minor,” he said.

So far this year, 165 dog attacks have been reported in Surrey, Rehal added.

Currently, Surrey’s bylaw defines a “dangerous dog” as one who has “attacked, bitten or caused injury to a person or has demonstrated a propensity, tendency or disposition to do so; a dog that, while running at large, has attacked, bitten, killed or caused injury to a domestic animal” or a dog that has attacked a person without being provoked.

If a dog has been impounded three times within two years or the owner has received three tickets for the dog “running at large” within two years, it is also considered dangerous.

If dogs considered dangerous attack someone and are impounded, the fee to get the animal back is $5,000. And if it has injures someone, the pound keeper can detain the dog to seek an order to have it destroyed. If the order isn’t granted, the owner must pay a $5,000 fee to get it back.

Dangerous dogs are also subject to higher licensing fees in Surrey. Licences for neutered dogs cost $41.50 in Surrey while licences for dangerous dogs cost $268.

Meanwhile, Montreal Mayor Denis Coderre is seeking a ban on pit bulls and other dangerous breeds after a woman was killed after being mauled by an aggressive dog. The ban could be instituted as early as September.

http://www.thenownewspaper.com/news/383869261.html

[westopher]

Whatever, its not going to happen here. Don't worry. The one positive in a city full of rich people, is you end up with a city full of people that can afford to be educated.
Only idiots believe a ban will have a positive effect. I know plenty of animal control workers, vets, and police that will be happy to lie and register Knight as a Lab mix if the worst case scenario happens.
If a different licensing program for large breeds ends up in effect, I welcome it.

The real way to start solving this problem is start putting people in jail for having serious incidents with their dogs. I'm not talking about a scuffle. I'm talking about unlicensed, untrained offleash powerful dogs being allowed to be put into dangerous situations.

[westopher]

From what you've posted that sounds fairly promising. Neither of the people in the article seem interested in scapegoating a specific breed.

[Gucci Mane]

Originally Posted by westopher

From what you've posted that sounds fairly promising. Neither of the people in the article seem interested in scapegoating a specific breed.

yeah this article actually put me at ease a bit because i heard about this from ctv news and started freaking out.

i did really like reading this part. shes not stupid and understands what these dogs are actually like.

Hepner said she’d want to consider everything before looking at an outright ban on a particular breed, adding she wants experts in animal control to weigh in.

“My brother had a pit bull for 20 years and that dog was the most docile, gentle animal,” said Hepner. “But I can tell you they spent a lot of time with that dog… Even good responsible owners, if it turns, what it the catalyst? How do you control that?”

[Inaii]

If they're going to ban pits, why not ban chihuahuas or lhasa apsos too? The ONLY time I've ever been attacked by a dog, was by a small breed.

[stewie]

Originally Posted by underscore

Assuming by gsd you mean German Shepard, they're involved in more biting incidents and do similar damage to a pitbull. Have you never seen one of those videos of a police dog in action?

Aren't police German Shepherds specifically trained to neutralize someone as quickly as possible? If I was a police officer and had some guy hiding with a gun, I'd much rather have an agile speedy dog take him out than risk myself going in. Police dogs can be replaced, you can't.

[westopher]

I don't think that's what he was getting at at all. He's saying shepherds can do more damage than a pitbull. They are 40lbs heavier and have 100 more PSI of bite pressure than pits. I certainly wouldn't want to end up on the bad side of either.
Monty is a mix of both according to the shelter, so he is some kind of super killing machine haha.

[originalhypa]

Originally Posted by Inaii

If they're going to ban pits, why not ban chihuahuas or lhasa apsos too? The ONLY time I've ever been attacked by a dog, was by a small breed.

When I was a kid, I used to get chased around by my neighbours nasty little miniature pinscher whenever I rode past his house. That was a mean little dog, jumping and snapping at my legs. But as an adult, I realize that he weighs about 5 lbs. I could literally pick him up, and throw him into a large body of water now. So while I agree that little dogs are the devil, the size and strength of a large breed makes a big difference.

I read some insteresting stats yesterday on dog attacks. The top was the Pit Bull, but there were a number of attacks by shepherds and border collies in there.

It's in here. I can't link to scribd. Don't know how.....

Numbers reveal Vancouver dog attacks were led by "bully breed" pit bulls | iNews880


There's one Cane Corso attack in there. That's a big dog!!



The attack was against another animal though. I like to think that it swallowed a min pin whole.

[stewie]

I wouldn't want to be on either side either.

I get that GSD's are much heavier and have a much higher biting force(mine is 130 lb male), but when it comes to breed related attacks pit bulls outweigh every other breed it seems.

Everything I say though is most likely biased due to having my dogs attacked at dog parks by pit bulls. On a separate occasion when I was at a co workers house a few years ago sitting in a lawn chair having a beer in his front yard and the house across the street had their front door wide open and had no fence. It was roughly 3:30, and a guy roughly 15/16 years old was walking on the side walk coming home from school, and the dog comes charging out barking at the kid. Obviously the kid was scared shitless, jumped on the hood of the car that was in front of the house, set off the alarm, and the owner finally came out screaming at the kid to quit teasing his dog.

Shitty owner? yes
Unprovoked reason for a dog to try to get the kid? yes
Ban the breed? no
Do something to make it safer for people? yes (mandatory fence if in a house with a yard or something to prevent a dog from escaping. That goes for all dogs labeled as dangerous for all I car)

again, I don't support the ban, but I do think some things need to be done. Not just for this one specific breed, but any "dangerous" breed.

[underscore]

Originally Posted by originalhypa

When I was a kid, I used to get chased around by my neighbours nasty little miniature pinscher whenever I rode past his house. That was a mean little dog, jumping and snapping at my legs. But as an adult, I realize that he weighs about 5 lbs. I could literally pick him up, and throw him into a large body of water now. So while I agree that little dogs are the devil, the size and strength of a large breed makes a big difference.

True, but for a small kid a smaller dog can still hurt them, especially if it bites them in the face.

Originally Posted by stewie

I wouldn't want to be on either side either.

I get that GSD's are much heavier and have a much higher biting force(mine is 130 lb male), but when it comes to breed related attacks pit bulls outweigh every other breed it seems.

Pitbulls get more media coverage, but I remember finding a stat a few years back (so it may have changed now) showing that GSD's were involved in more attacks than pitbulls. That policy in Surrey sounds pretty good, at least from what that article tells.