REVscene - Vancouver Automotive Forum

quasi · 12-27-2017, 02:17 PM

I've never been great at negotiating raises. Typically I'm pretty easy as long as I feel I'm being treated fairly.

I've been at the same company for 6 years, we're suppose to have yearly reviews but that typically doesn't happen unless I demand them. I have had somewhat regular raises over the years.

Last February I received a raise around 6% which I understand is more then inflation and overall probably considered good. The problem I have is I know other people in the same industry as me in similar positions from a handful of different companies who are making 20-25% more then I am currently. My company likes to quote what there paying other people in other offices in my same role but IMO it's not fair to compare me to someone working in Calgary or Edmonton where it's a lot cheaper to buy a home.

To make it more complicated I have two offers on the table right now that are closer to that 25% more one is from our competitor here in the lower mainland and the other is from the company my dad works for back in Saskatchewan. It would be nice to be mortgage free in Sask but then I'd have to live there year round so I don't think I'm taking the offer seriously.

I've had some challenges this year with knee surgery/recovery and then the death of my sister and my work has been very understanding and accommodating, I put a lot of value to that. Generally speaking I really like the people here as well, I love my commute and I don't want to leave. I want to get closer to market value but I don't want to seem like I'm bending them over. What is the best way to approach my boss without pissing him off and coming off greedy?

I don't even mind taking a little less to stay here but that's a lot of money to leave on the table year after year.

Any advice is appreciated.

dapperfied · 12-27-2017, 02:50 PM

You tell them "Fuck you, pay me!".

Zedbra · 12-27-2017, 03:29 PM

I tell everyone on the fence that thinks they are not being compensated for what they believe they are worth, "sometimes you need to move out to move up". That being said, being satisfied with your job and fellow coworkers is better than most marginal pay increases.

6793026 · 12-27-2017, 04:31 PM

Tough situation got there because 1) your company was very accommodating with your situations 2) you like the company.

What makes it tough are also 2 things 1) as Zedbra said, you have to get out to move up. 2) depending on the size of your company, big fortune 100 companies are based on titles, to get anything adjusted is close to impossible as pay is tied to title.

Just state facts with numbers supporting on your contribution; provide a few market value comparison to justify your case and just walk away. I've seen many people try to get a YES and it never works.
a) Just have a conversation and tell the manager to think about it and ask for a review / follow up in 3 weeks.
b) Follow up within 3 weeks (to make sure it was brought up to higher up) and if the higher up says NO, ask your manager if it is OK if you go talk to the VP directly.
c) Talk to the VP directly.

If you don't do these 3 steps; manager just brushes it off, VPs might not even know about your request.

Step 3 also ensures you don't go above your manager. NOTHING worse when you try to talk to the VP and turns out the manager never even brought it up.

punkwax · 12-27-2017, 04:36 PM

Let them know you have a local offer for 25% more but you’d prefer to stay where you are if they can compete.

If they can’t, maybe it’s time to move on. If they do, great. Living here is expensive and you have to look out for yourself and your family financially.

ScizzMoney · 12-27-2017, 07:21 PM

What punkwax said is what I was going to suggest as well.

Also, from my own experience, so many of my friends that have refused to leave the lower mainland are just spinning their wheels year after year. A lot of us that have moved away (I'm currently in Fort Mac, was in Calgary for a while as well) and have decent jobs, multiple properties, toys, a lot of vacation time, etc. To me it seems like a no brainer to branch out. Just have to decide what you value.

Spoon · 12-27-2017, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by punkwax

Let them know you have a local offer for 25% more but you’d prefer to stay where you are if they can compete.

Not saying that's not a bad idea. But your reputation at your current company might take a hit and might slow your future advancements. IMO, if you're gonna go for the money, just go.

You can make them match your competitor's salary today, but what happens two years from now when they don't give you as generous a raise? You'll be back at square one.

punkwax · 12-27-2017, 07:49 PM

I didn’t suggest he make them match. But he should tell them about the competitive offer if he’s considering it. As a hiring manager, I’d prefer an employee give me the opportunity to retain them rather than just have them decide to move on for more money without having a conversation. By then it could be too late for them to turn an offer down if they’ve accepted.

I’ve never strong armed an employer and certainly don’t recommend it, but open communication is definitely encouraged in these situations.

Edit: he also said he had a local offer for 25% more. That’s significant and wouldn’t happen in 2 years without a promotion. His 6% annual increase was generous which leads me to believe his results are worth retaining, if possible.

twitchyzero · 12-27-2017, 07:52 PM

there's little point in comparing other markets...my colleague in Edmonton makes around 25% more than I do and claims winters aren't even that bad haha

sounds like you have the right idea...if they can close to gap to say 10-15% of the competitor offer, I would stay. Job satisfaction is more important if you already have stability.

How likely is it that they'll bump you 15% though? Is there a way to find out if the competitor's offer isn't just smoke and mirrors? They might just trying to make things sound enticing, and when you jump ships you find out you're actually worse off in vacation time, benefits, etc.

smoothie. · 12-27-2017, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by punkwax

Let them know you have a local offer for 25% more but you’d prefer to stay where you are if they can compete.

If they can’t, maybe it’s time to move on. If they do, great. Living here is expensive and you have to look out for yourself and your family financially.

get the offer first so you actually leave and get that pay increase.

It's sad, but every time my wage has increased appropriately was never in house, but to another company.

quasi · 12-28-2017, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by punkwax

I didn’t suggest he make them match. But he should tell them about the competitive offer if he’s considering it. As a hiring manager, I’d prefer an employee give me the opportunity to retain them rather than just have them decide to move on for more money without having a conversation. By then it could be too late for them to turn an offer down if they’ve accepted.

I’ve never strong armed an employer and certainly don’t recommend it, but open communication is definitely encouraged in these situations.

Edit: he also said he had a local offer for 25% more. That’s significant and wouldn’t happen in 2 years without a promotion. His 6% annual increase was generous which leads me to believe his results are worth retaining, if possible.

I've had my manager tell more then once if I'm ever planning on leaving to come see him first so I'd agree with this and I wouldn't just leave without giving them a chance to do better.

The company I work for is notoriously cheap, it's not to say they won't pay up but they seldom do it. That said when I came here there were 4 people in my office doing the same position I'm doing. Over the last 6 years some of them of died, others have moved on, others have come in and either left or been let go for lack of ability. They tell me they've been trying to hire two new people for the past 6 months without much success. My work load the last 18 months has been quite large to try and help with this.

I've spoken to 3 guys all in similar roles at 3 different companies (all lower mainland) plus I have the offer from a 4th company and there all in the 20-25% more area so I know where the market is.

When it comes down to it everyone's replaceable and I understand that but I know for a fact if I leave it's going to cost them more then I'd ask for to replace me with someone equivalent but that doesn't mean they won't let me go without matching. Sometimes some of the moves this company makes staff wise make you go WTF.

quasi · 12-28-2017, 08:11 AM

^^

To be fair to my employer I should add that they are currently paying all costs for me to upgrade my schooling at night and or online. They also give me almost any time off I need without question and don't doc me for it, Physio, Dentist, Doctor, kids sick whatever it is. Also get first choice of whatever holidays I want off.

There are a lot of perks to working here, not all bad not by a long shot.

Spoon · 12-28-2017, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quasi

The company I work for is notoriously cheap, it's not to say they won't pay up but they seldom do it.

Reminds me of my first real job. The people I worked with there were my bros (including the manager). And to this day, I still make an effort to visit them at least once a year. Only problem was the company (and unfortunately my manager too) were stingy so we had to part ways.

Sometimes I'd reminisce about going back one day. Then reality sets in and realize how miserable I'd be (financially) if I did. In the end, money always wins.

twitchyzero · 12-28-2017, 11:45 AM

yep, at the same time don't be afraid to leave as well. There are always opportunities when one door closes.

mr_chin · 12-28-2017, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quasi

^^

To be fair to my employer I should add that they are currently paying all costs for me to upgrade my schooling at night and or online. They also give me almost any time off I need without question and don't doc me for it, Physio, Dentist, Doctor, kids sick whatever it is. Also get first choice of whatever holidays I want off.

There are a lot of perks to working here, not all bad not by a long shot.

Well, for one, you JUST got a 6% raise a little under 2 years ago. So your manager probably think you're still fine with the pay.

Two, I agree, like you said, sometimes the quality of people and perks outweighs the increase pay.

Lastly, like your manager said, if you ever think about leaving, why not give them a chance to do better? Negotiating doesn't always have to turn into a "you lose, I win" battle. Just have a talk with your manager that you got an offer at another company and see what he/she thinks. If they refuse to match, you still have the choice to stay or leave.

I learned my lesson from the past that, when something bothered me at work, I didn't speak up. When the day I left arrived, I realized that nobody knew what I was thinking and feeling. Managements/HR are still human beings, they won't automatically know how their employees are feeling all the time. That's why a lot of companies always have a feedback systems. The last few companies I worked for, the HR loved feedback, whether it's negative or positive. Seriously, these people have very little clue about what is going on in the operation departments and have very little clue when an employee is unsatisfied.

Oh, and to add, if they are looking to hire 2 more staff to work along side with you, it means they have money to for more wage. If you are taking on the workload of more than one person, I'm sure they are willing to pay you more.

quasi · 12-28-2017, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr_chin

Oh, and to add, if they are looking to hire 2 more staff to work along side with you, it means they have money to for more wage. If you are taking on the workload of more than one person, I'm sure they are willing to pay you more.

Yes, we've been short handed for a while now. I occasionally get some help from our other offices but generally speaking I have to do more and we have to pass on some projects because we can't get to them not servicing our clients as well as we should be.

Euro7r · 12-28-2017, 10:24 PM

As you have competitive offers elsewhere, what is the worst that can happen if you brought up compensation negotiation with your manager? Even worse comes to worse, the conversation doesn't end well, you burn your bridges, you still have alternative open offers elsewhere.

End of the day, you have mortgage to pay, family to feed and living here ain't easy, so you'll have to decide what's best for you/family.

6793026 · 12-29-2017, 05:04 AM

good to see you telling us more details, don't think it's that's bad; just a bit over worked.

i'm sure you'll ahve a good chat and a good offer after you have a talk with them.

quasi · 01-12-2018, 03:37 PM

I haven't updated this but I spoke to my manager which led to a conference call with our owner, they didn't want me leaving I negotiated close to 20% with promises of more in the following years (not sure if those actually come through) but I'm happy with where I'm at now salary wise and don't have to start over.

punkwax · 01-12-2018, 04:05 PM

Nice!

twitchyzero · 01-12-2018, 08:53 PM

host them a BBQ in the summer to say thanks

blkgsr · 01-15-2018, 08:41 AM

20%, that's a nice pay bump. good work.

Nvasion · 01-19-2018, 06:07 PM

Nice!

i negotiated for a raise at my old job which i was at for 7 years and i was asking for 20 percent raise and they said nope not negotiable because my position was maxed out so i said ok and got a new job. Now my old job has called me a few times offering me a 40 percent raise and i said no. Sucks for them. New jobs pay is less then the 40% raise but its much less stress and im way happier.

6793026 · 01-19-2018, 11:00 PM

^so awesome to hear. Not only did you got closure, it taught the old company to never fuck with good employees.

If you do ever go back, how do you even take the old management at face value anymore.

Such a great encouragement. And yes, in life, more money = more problems. Sometimes, becoming a manager is a BITCH since you have to do more work and hours and personalities. Might as well go fuck it and earn less place and have a better work life balance.

quasi · 01-23-2018, 05:50 PM

To update this a bit more when I received my last cheque my raise wasn't on it but to be fair we did have the raise conversation on the day of our cutoff so I gave them the benefit of the doubt and didn't say anything.

An envelope was dropped on my desk today, the owner sent out a cheque to retro my raise to the beginning of this year and he also gave me a really nice bonus that works out to an additional months pay from him personally.

If I've learned anything is if you know what you're worth go get it and don't underestimate that people don't see the extra effort you're making or appreciate what you do.