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Old 01-24-2023, 01:05 AM   #1
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Advice: Renovation Project & Espresso Machine Plumbing

Hi Revscene,

We have a ground floor den (if you want to call it that) which is bare, empty, and unused. We're looking to build a wet bar so we can boil some water, brew some coffee/espresso and whatnot. This place will be used primarily as our home office.

Some context: The water line will be coming in from the left of the wall and I will have a dedicated water line just for the espresso machine. The idea is to also drain any excess water into the sink / p-trap. E61-type machines are notorious for water waste.

We plan to have the sink to the left of the wall only because that's where the water line is. Ignore the small water shut off on the right as it is a shut off valve for a garden hose outside. The design below is not to scale, not a professional drawing, and is not final. This is a rough MSPaint.exe sort of mock up.

My questions are:
1. Does it make sense to keep the sink as planned or relocate it?
2. Is it best I place my espresso machine and grinder etc. closest to the sink? I plan on draining the espresso machine directly into the sink / p-trap.
3. Should I move my dishwasher somewhere else?
4. Does it make sense to plug in my espresso machine under the counter instead of on the counter plugs for electricity?
5. Any recommendations/feedback?

Thanks in advance
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Old 01-24-2023, 07:10 AM   #2
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Regardless of the positioning of the sink I think the dishwasher is always going to live directly beside it. Not only for functionality in terms of transferring from the sink to the DW but also the ease of plumbing in the waterline and drain.

What is the drain like on the machine? Is it just one of those little internet spouts that drains into a tray? I’m wondering if you could rig up some hose with ring clamps and have the overflow dump in to the same type of fitting as the DW does under the sink
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Old 01-24-2023, 07:49 AM   #3
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Maybe personal preference but I feel I'd need a bit of counter space on either side of the sink.

Not sure if the far left is a flat wall or open, but I could imagine getting kind of cramped if I'm using the sink right next to the wall, my left elbow would hit the wall.

With sinks there's always space needed for hand soap, lotion, drying cloths, etc. As well that you'd need space for. You probably wouldn't want it on the right next to your coffee stuff.
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Old 01-24-2023, 08:45 AM   #4
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What is the drain like on the machine? Is it just one of those little internet spouts that drains into a tray? I’m wondering if you could rig up some hose with ring clamps and have the overflow dump in to the same type of fitting as the DW does under the sink
At the bottom of the drip tray, you can connect a plastic/rubber hose (food grade) and route it into an overflow spigot. There should be a plastic connector for the sink plumbing that splits off into a "Y" spigot to accommodate the plastic/rubber hose that feeds from the drip tray. I recall seeing it at Home Depot. Further below can be the spigot similar to the ones for the overflow dump for dishwashers.

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Maybe personal preference but I feel I'd need a bit of counter space on either side of the sink.

Not sure if the far left is a flat wall or open, but I could imagine getting kind of cramped if I'm using the sink right next to the wall, my left elbow would hit the wall.

With sinks there's always space needed for hand soap, lotion, drying cloths, etc. As well that you'd need space for. You probably wouldn't want it on the right next to your coffee stuff.
Good call on having hand/dish soaps and whatnot. The far left is a flat wall. It is not open, unfortunately. And you are right - there needs to be some functional space. We will have to re-plan this.
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Old 01-24-2023, 12:46 PM   #5
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I'd just swap places with the sink and dishwasher.
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Old 01-24-2023, 03:36 PM   #6
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I might not want the dishwasher against the wall either. I had to fix mine recently and to do if you needed to access the left side of it. Worst case you can just pull the whole thing out so it's not the end of the world, it'd just be more work.

Maybe go:
Drawers - Sink - Dishwasher - Cabinet - Fridge - Cabinet? With the espresso machine above the drawers so it's easy to route to the sink drain, with the line nicely hidden behind the drawers but still easy to get to if you need to?
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Old 01-26-2023, 09:00 AM   #7
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Small suggestion - I'd go with a wider sink cabinet (probably 18") and shrink the drawer down to 12". I find sink size makes a big difference in usability especially if there's no other alternative nearby.

I also prefer to have the sink away from the wall but that's just a preference and one rooted in using the sink to wash things - at this size it's more to rinse things out so you won't stand there that much.
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Old 01-26-2023, 09:38 AM   #8
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Agreed.

A 15” sink cab will only fit what, a 12” sink? A few mugs and glasses and that shits overflowing
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Old 01-26-2023, 10:28 AM   #9
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Are you planning on installing a countertop pitcher rinse? If that's in the plan, I personally prefer the espresso machine and grinder to be further away from the sink to give more 'breathing room' the coffee station and for those who need to use it for washing the cups/dishes.

The sink cab is pretty tight, are you planning on installing any water filter system? Don't tell me you're using direct tap water for your carbonic maceration and anaerobic processed Geisha beans!
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Old 01-26-2023, 02:19 PM   #10
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Random preference but is this a full kitchen redo or just this one wall? I say this cause having the switch for the undercabinet LEDs behind the counter discourages them from ever getting used in my experience. I prefer to have it next to the regular light switches on the wall (which is what I used to have but not anymore)
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Old 01-26-2023, 07:49 PM   #11
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I think it's just one wall since it's for his den.
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Old 01-27-2023, 06:21 AM   #12
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Are you planning on installing a countertop pitcher rinse? If that's in the plan, I personally prefer the espresso machine and grinder to be further away from the sink to give more 'breathing room' the coffee station and for those who need to use it for washing the cups/dishes.

The sink cab is pretty tight, are you planning on installing any water filter system? Don't tell me you're using direct tap water for your carbonic maceration and anaerobic processed Geisha beans!
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Random preference but is this a full kitchen redo or just this one wall? I say this cause having the switch for the undercabinet LEDs behind the counter discourages them from ever getting used in my experience. I prefer to have it next to the regular light switches on the wall (which is what I used to have but not anymore)
@cafe22 - I was thinking of just installing a direct line into the system as I have a Kinetico whole-home system, but decided to get a BWT filtration system, unless you have any other suggestions. The water is quite hard where I am and actually lead to the demise of my Rocket (limescale build up) and that repair was not fun.

I didn't think of getting a pitcher rinse since I don't really make a lot of milk-based drinks. I'll steam milk for my wife and maybe top off my espresso with whatever leftover milk and simply take the pitcher, rinse in sink, and put it into the dishwasher.

Where do you suggest I place the espresso setup? Thanks for the suggestion on the sink cabinet setup. You have to remember that I'm still using a Rocket Giotto Evoluzione v2, not a La Marzocco GS/3 or Linea Mini. I may bring the lever machines down once in a while, but that's it.

@snowball - This is not a kitchen renovation. This is a new wet bar being built in my den. Good suggestion on the switch and LEDs. I didn't think of that.
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Old 01-27-2023, 09:53 AM   #13
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The counter lighting, ikea has a great system with wireless switches. It eliminated a lot of wiring for me.

Mine is a bit more complicated as I have 3 different walls my cabinets are on and it was going to be a nightmare to pull a common cable between the transformers and outlets, but imo their system is as good as anything out there with more flexibility
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Old 01-27-2023, 10:06 AM   #14
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@cafe22 - I was thinking of just installing a direct line into the system as I have a Kinetico whole-home system, but decided to get a BWT filtration system, unless you have any other suggestions. The water is quite hard where I am and actually lead to the demise of my Rocket (limescale build up) and that repair was not fun.

I didn't think of getting a pitcher rinse since I don't really make a lot of milk-based drinks. I'll steam milk for my wife and maybe top off my espresso with whatever leftover milk and simply take the pitcher, rinse in sink, and put it into the dishwasher.

Where do you suggest I place the espresso setup? Thanks for the suggestion on the sink cabinet setup. You have to remember that I'm still using a Rocket Giotto Evoluzione v2, not a La Marzocco GS/3 or Linea Mini. I may bring the lever machines down once in a while, but that's it.

@snowball - This is not a kitchen renovation. This is a new wet bar being built in my den. Good suggestion on the switch and LEDs. I didn't think of that.
If you had said you do milk drinks daily, then I would suggest the machine on top of the fridge so that you can easily grab milk without going back and forth from the fridge (1st world problem).

I honestly would just place it in the centre to balance out the length of the counter top.
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Old 01-27-2023, 10:08 AM   #15
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The counter lighting, ikea has a great system with wireless switches. It eliminated a lot of wiring for me.

Mine is a bit more complicated as I have 3 different walls my cabinets are on and it was going to be a nightmare to pull a common cable between the transformers and outlets, but imo their system is as good as anything out there with more flexibility
+1 to this. The Ikea lights work great and are easy to work with. For this kind of build in general I think Ikea is a great deal - plenty durable and pretty easy to install.
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