A box of cat 5e is like.. $250?

My point was just that, if you’re pulling used cables through the walls to save money, what else are you “saving” on because that’s like the cheapest shit you could possible buy in building a home lol

I'm trying to understand if you're telling us if people are asking their builders to pull used cable, or if buddy guy builders are pulling used cable when customer/client asks for new cable.

There's nothing wrong with pulling used cable as long as you know where it's from, its condition, and that it works end to end but I find it unethical if you are pulling used cable and charging your customers for a roll of new cable and using it for another job.

If it were up to me, I'd pull new cable only.

There’s no scenario where you should be using used cable.

might as well get one with usb ports on there too so while you're taking a dump and warming your ass with nice warm water you can stay charged watching netflix like a king :fullofwin:

LV cable IMO has pretty narrow insulation, it's not like pulling building wire, ripping it out, 1 nick can easily damage continuity, so i wouldn't even want used if it passed a continuity check at the time it's installed, but that's just me.

do people still pull cat5e for new? i would have figured the industry just does cat6 by now... i assume the cost premium of cat6 isn't much by now?

It’s quite a bit more than 5e. I never once went into any brand new home in Van/bby that pulled 6 everywhere

Low voltage stuff, as manic said, is always super neglected unless you’re actively using a proper low voltage contractor or B) you’re a high end builder who is installing control 4 type automation etc.

So many brand new homes have worse low voltage wiring than my 100 year old home where I pulled cables through my chimney etc. I have more coverage than some BRAND NEW duplexes I went into in bby and van lol, it’s pathetic.

Cat5e can't do gigabit though. So cat 6 should be the minimim

5e can handle gigabit pretty easily, but it's under $200 for 1000ft of 6 from PrimeCables so you may as well use that for a new build. Make sure they're buying solid core for the in wall stuff like they're supposed to. Just don't try to use any extra to make patch cables. In wall = solid, out of wall = stranded.

You can run other outlets off the one GFCI (or get a GFCI breaker) so you may as well have an outlet added there even if you don't want a bidet atm because it won't cost much.

Yea like these people pulling cables wouldn’t even know what solid core cables are lol, but you’re 1000% right.

Wholesale cost differential between riser 5E and 6 is about 30-50% depending on brand. 6E is not an officially recognized standard.

Trunk slammers are a dime a dozen in the industry unfortunately. Not many out there are willing to pay for quality work especially in spec homes. I worked on one project a few years back where the homeowner thought he only needed minimal (<5) data cables in his 3000sqft house because "everything is wireless nowadays".

Yeah that too, the average person has no clue what the different cable standards are or even uses many hardwired things these days. But for those of us that do it's essential.

As the project progresses to installing low voltage, the convo will go a little something like this.
GC: low voltage is gonna be pulled on Monday.
You: it'll be cat 6 right?
GC: you want cat 6?! I quoted for cat 5. If you want cat 6, it'll be extra charge.
You: how much extra
GC: 20k
You: :pokerface:

i haven't heard some of these terms for 20 years lol

are the very best custom wifi mesh system for a fraction the cost still inadequate for everything but the most mission critical tasks with zero packet loss like remote surgery or landing a rocket?

Someone with better technical knowledge can probably explain this better, but my understanding with wireless mesh systems is that they don't have the same reliability as a solution with a wired backhaul like we're talking about here. Factors such as:

• Size of Home
• Signal Interference (# of walls, material behind walls, distance from source, # of devices in area)
• Network Hardware (cheaper units may not have dedicated frequencies for wireless backhaul which result in reduced internet speeds from one of the mesh nodes)

all affect the reliability and speed of the system. A wired backhaul limits the affect or eliminates many these factors - something that is especially useful in a larger home. Wireless mesh systems also don't address those wanting to use PoE devices like cameras, doorbells, and other devices.

Call me old fashioned, I'd go wired if that's an option. My TV is connected via cat because when we reno'ed we had the ability to pull two wires to where the TV is. The other cat ended going into a weefee extender.

I’m no network tech but worked with Telus’s garb hardware for long enough to realize pretty quickly that wireless mesh networks are garbage, and most people’s “smart” devices are not smart enough to distinguish between multiple AP’s. Hardware like gaming consoles etc. almost always seem to revert to the primary wired AP.

Until Wifi 6e or whatever the new standard is widely adopted across all hardware, which will probably never happen, I don’t see it being a seemless wireless experience.

Peoples issues I resolved as a technician were almost ALWAYS caused by wireless issues. The solution? Almost 100% of the time was to hardwire components or AP’s

I haven't priced out a mesh network but I have a hard time believing it's a fraction of the cost of wired. I also highly doubt it'll have the same performance or longevity. I spent maybe a couple hundred bucks on wire and jacks and I've got a dead simple gigabit connection that's good for 20+ years.

since discussion is on new build i assume we're including labour costs too

once a new standard is more mainstream you can also upgrade easily, where it's a lot of work to re-do cable

now that standards are less incremental i suppose it's less of an issue as tech matures

ISP hardware can be quite problematic

but yeah to reach my garage i had to manually set the opener to connect to the closest AP

Yea, while it’s fairly simple guiding certain devices to specific AP’s is over most people’s heads, even if they have guidance or a YouTube video

Surely the labour costs are pretty minimal? I ran 5e and coax to 6 rooms in my parents place and it only took a couple hours. With zero drywall it'd be even easier. What're you guys being quoted?

You'd need to redo the cable less often than you'd need to upgrade the rest of your hardware because it's capable of so much more to begin with. Most people aren't even going to be maxing out 20 year old 5e yet.

i think if you talk to any hardcore online gamer, hardwired or bust. i lost a tenant once b/c of this :lol

for casual gamers like myself no biggie, but damn if i get d/c'd on a competitive ranked game :yuno:

Getting DC around here is more Telus's fault than anything. With WiFi it's more the momentary lag spike because some one is running the microwave :pokerface:

If I were designing a custom home, I'd pipe all of my LV runs in PVC to a central data/server room. I'd also add additional pipe runs for speaker wiring and HDMI wiring as well. I would aim for two 200A panels (for in-floor heating, multiple EV chargers, and rental suit) and subpanels in each "zone" of the house for future additions.

I would add valved/zone ducting HVAC for gas furnace and electric AC unit for optimal temperature control. All the thermostats would be piped as well :) I want gas stoves, and gas outlets for outdoor BBQ and fires.

I don't know how it would be built, but I would want to use concrete for the entire house. Metal studs would be offset for maximum sound proofing with proper insulation. Double drywall would be used.

Just curious why you prefer metal studs? Aren't wood studs easier to work with and don't they have better strength when you drill into them to hang things?

Technically you can support more weight with metal studs. Usually steel stud framing is used with concrete builds

Steel studs are such a pita when your trying the hang shit from the walls.


When wood was crazy during Covid, it was actually pretty even to go for a concrete build vs wood construction in a residential home build. Coming from a high up Bosa guy who owned a lot down the street. Would have been neat, but now wood is cheap again. Lol