[What_the?]

Hi everyone,

Because of the coming winter and the fact that it's colder and colder out, I have come across a question I wanted to get clear. Usually, in the morning i start up my car and sit inside waiting for the car to warm up and the windshield to defrost, it's cold as hell, and I don't like just sitting around for 5 mins... So, one time I started my car, and turned on the usual heating stuff, and detached my keyless entry remote from my keychain. So, I got out of the car and went back into the house, and used the remote to lock my doors. I thought it was a brilliant idea because then my car can be nice and heated when I get back there in like 5 mins. One of my friends was like "hmm you're not allowed to do that..." so that's why i'm questioning the legality of doing this. Noone's in my car when it's on, the car IS locked, ebrake and stuff is on so the car doesn't roll or anything... It's just so I don't have to wait while my car heats...

Is this legal? Am I allowed to do this?
I'd really like to know, it'd save me so much trouble, thanks!

[jeffh]

you would think so what with remote startes and all

[What_the?]

yea i know
that's what i would think too

but would like some confirmation on that

[DragonChi]

i don't think it is,
i remember someone started a thread on this a loooong time ago,
you have to be by or in your car when it's started.

well atleast i think so...

[misteranswer]

I believe it is perfectly legal in BC, but not in Manitoba.

[Raid3n]

that sounds backwards to me...seeing as places like winnipeg have killer winters, that is usually where most remote starter sales are...all the people in bc that aren't in the interior that are bitching about sitting in a cold car for a few mins, quit being a wuss and think how someone in ottawa in the same situation is going to feel in a month. BC is nothing compared the the East.

it is fine to leave your car running as long as it is locked i believe. but i think it IS illegal to jump out of yuor car for a sec while it is running to return a movie at rogers or blockbuster or some other such store.

not sure though.

[skidmark]

No problem with doing this as long as the car is locked up or secured to prevent it being stolen in some other manner.

[Blue]

I remember hearing about this a while back, but it had nothing to do with the legalities of the issue. It had more to do with, ICBC coverage on the vehicle had your vehicle been stolen during that period it was warming up.

[skidmark]

Leaving parked vehicle

191 (1) A motor vehicle must be equipped with a lock or other device to prevent the unauthorized use of the motor vehicle.

(2) A driver must not permit a motor vehicle to stand unattended or parked unless the driver has

(a) locked it or made it secure in a manner that prevents its unauthorized use, and

(b) if the motor vehicle is standing on a grade, turned the front wheels of the vehicle to the curb or side of the highway.

[PACER]

There is a charge for leaving a car insecure ( Leaving parked vehicle
191 (1) A motor vehicle must be equipped with a lock or other device to prevent the unauthorized use of the motor vehicle.
(2) A driver must not permit a motor vehicle to stand unattended or parked unless the driver has
(a) locked it or made it secure in a manner that prevents its unauthorized use, and
(b) if the motor vehicle is standing on a grade, turned the front wheels of the vehicle to the curb or side of the highway.and running.)
Although locking it helps we have been successful in prosecuting people for this even with the car locked, as it is too easy to steal by breaking the glass. Remote starters are different, if installed properly, in that they require the keys to be inserted and the ignition turned on. If this is not done the car will stop, not to mention the steering wheel would or should remain locked without the key.

[[YeS.SiR]]

Originally posted by skidmark
Leaving parked vehicle

191 (1) A motor vehicle must be equipped with a lock or other device to prevent the unauthorized use of the motor vehicle.

(2) A driver must not permit a motor vehicle to stand unattended or parked unless the driver has

(a) locked it or made it secure in a manner that prevents its unauthorized use


What I read from this is that, unless there is case law to the contrary, the fact that an ignition requires a key and the key isn't in the ignition is enough to comply with this section.

Leaving a car on and locked seems to conform with the requirements. If prosecutions on this section have been successful, it must be for some outstanding reason.

[PACER]

I would agree as long as a key is required to turn the ignition. If it is broken or inoperable or the car can be operated with out a key, I would say the section applies.

It would be up to a JP to decide if the fact that no key was there is sufficient to satisfy this or not. Unfortunately this often changes from one JP to another, they all interpret the act differently.

[What_the?]

hmm thanks for the input

didn't really think about someone breaking the glass to steal my car... good point there... since my key would be in the car

guess ill just have to do it the old fashioned way and sit and wait...

thanks!

[Acuracura]

pretty soon you will be craping ice off your windows while the car warms up

[optiblue]

crap... really??? I guess I'll stop parking my car on the side of the road, aiming my lights, and walk down the road to check them~~

[silvia]

why does your car need to warm up? not fuel injected?

[Gh0stRider]

park in garage..hehe and use autostart..

[A SQUARED]

yay for ruining engines.....

idling is for idiots

[Fox1096]

Originally posted by TRD604
park in garage..hehe and use autostart.. carbon monoxide lol

[Raid3n]

not if you have proper ventilation

[Psykopathik]

Originally posted by silvia
why does your car need to warm up? not fuel injected?

ice on windows

[silvia]

Originally posted by Turbo E
ice on windows

your engine scrapes the ice off your windows?

[girlcrazy_4]

Our old impalla wouldnt go into gear untill its warmed up. We just let it idle for 10mins before we'd drive it anywhere.

[Graeme S]

Originally posted by silvia
your engine scrapes the ice off your windows?

Warming the engine up with the heater on defrosts cthe car, preventing the need for scraping.

[SilverRSXxX]

Hey guys,

Sorry for resurrecting this thread back up but I just needed confirmation.

Yesterday night I remote started my vehicle from inside the house. 10 minutes later I see a cop car parked directly beside my car. I disable my car from inside the house and walk out to see what was going on.

He asked me if it was my car and if I knew it was on. I told him I remote started the vehicle from inside the house to warm up the car before I headed off. I told him it was a remote starter that was added to my car. He then asked me for my drivers license and told me that it was illegal to remote start a vehicle and leave it unattended. I go back inside while he does he thing and wait.

5 minutes later he knocks on the door and hands me the ticket. I tried to reason with him, telling him my car is equipped with an immobilizer on top of the remote start. If anyone were to try and enter the car, the engine will disable.

His only response was, it's not even that cold for the need of remote start...

End of my vent...

[twitchyzero]

^ scroll up for the answers...your car was locked right?
unless the laws have changed, you should dispute it.

[Gumby]

What section of the MVA did you get charged for?

[sebberry]

The only problem I can see is if there is an anti-idling bylaw prohibiting you from running the car for more than three minutes.

[hchang]

Were your car doors locked?

Was your car parked on the street?

[SilverRSXxX]

I did see all the comments above my posting.

My car was locked, immobilizer still active. Key needs to be inserted into ignition and turned before the pedals work.

I need to check the ticket which is at home to see which section I got charged for.

I do recall the description being, "Leaving car running unattended"...something along the lines.

I only ask again now just to make sure that all the comment which were made in 2004 haven't changed.

The car was parked along the side of the house, small city street, not personal property.

[GabAlmighty]

He does have a good point though... It wasn't all that cold out.

[MindBomber]

I'll be pretty choked if I find out the government allows the sale of remote starters, but has a law preventing their use.

[Energy]

How long did you leave your car idling? I know people with remote starts and they've never had problems like this.

[$_$]

Bored cop eh.

[lilgurl]

I had the car running for about 10 minutes. I use the remote start all the time and never been hassled before.

I really do agree with you T.H.C., I think he was just a little bored and needed something to do.

Can anyone else confirm that I am not at fault here? I do not want to dispute if I am the one who clearly has it all wrong.

*edit* wrong account haha...

[Fafine]

whats the ticket for? 3min idle? cause thats only thing i can think of. if your car was locked should be fine to dispute...

[gars]

You still didn't post what section of the MVA you were ticketed under.

And what car do you have that needs to be warmed up for 10 minutes before driving....? in 10 degree weather...?

[baggdis300]

thats bs, as soon as you touch the break peddle without keys in ignition the car turns off so you can't steal if it unless you have a key so thats pointless

dispute the ticket because tahts BS why would they sell and have it from factory if your not allowed to use it?

i kno people in california with remote starts just to cool the car off, what is it too hot there to use it as well?

[twitchyzero]

when they implemented the idling by-laws in 2006 they said they won't give tickets..just like how they won't give tickets if you don't yield for a bus.

Unless that's changed in the last 4 years...

[sebberry]

when they implemented the idling by-laws in 2006 they said they won't give tickets..just like how they won't give tickets if you don't yield for a bus.

Unless that's changed in the last 4 years...

They better be giving tickets for not yielding to a bus.

[Soundy]

Idling

2.7 A person must not cause or permit a motor vehicle to idle:

(a) for more than three consecutive minutes in a 60 minute period; or

(b) while unattended and unlocked.

/thread

[SilverRSXxX]

MVA 191(2)(9)

This is what it says as for the section. I can't tell whether the last number/letter is a "9" or a lower case "a"

Correction to the description "Leave Vehicle Unattended Unsecure"

There was no talk regarding idling, he did say he was there for about 10-15 minutes and that leaving a car running regardless if it was started via a remote starter or not was still illegal.

[danz]

fml

[Soundy]

MVA 191(2)(9)

This is what it says as for the section. I can't tell whether the last number/letter is a "9" or a lower case "a"

Correction to the description "Leave Vehicle Unattended Unsecure"

There was no talk regarding idling, he did say he was there for about 10-15 minutes and that leaving a car running regardless if it was started via a remote starter or not was still illegal.
Interesting.... you may actually have a valid dispute. That section specifically says:

Leaving parked vehicle
191 (1) A motor vehicle must be equipped with a lock or other device to prevent the unauthorized use of the motor vehicle.

(2) A driver must not permit a motor vehicle to stand unattended or parked unless the driver has
(a) locked it or made it secure in a manner that prevents its unauthorized use, and
(b) if the motor vehicle is standing on a grade, turned the front wheels of the vehicle to the curb or side of the highway.
http://www.bclaws.ca/EPLibraries/bclaws_new/document/ID/freeside/96318_05

If the doors were locked, AND you have an immobilizer that shuts the car off if someone enters it, then you've more than fulfilled the exceptions of the section he wrote you under.

[TheNewGirl]

Some municipalities have and enforce rules about duration of idling too. In Whistler for example, it's illegal to have your car idling for more then 5 minutes, weather you're in it or not.

[sebberry]

So if you're in the ferry line in the middle of winter and you're idling your car to provide you with heat...

[johny]

So if you're in the ferry line in the middle of winter and you're idling your car to provide you with heat...

go sit in the waiting lounge...

if you're driving in the winter. you should always have enough clothes in the car to stay warm. what if your car dies on the side of the road somewhere?


can you even be charged under the MVA for a car parked in your driveway on private property? most of the rules don't come into effect untill you're on a public highway.

the idle law is a bylaw though and would still be in effect.

[Soundy]

go sit in the waiting lounge...
Don't be making sense now, sebberry won't know what to do with it.

if you're driving in the winter. you should always have enough clothes in the car to stay warm. what if your car dies on the side of the road somewhere?
Idle it until you run out of gas, of course... or until global warming kicks in and thaws you out.
:fuckyea:

[SilverRSXxX]

Thanks for the help guys, the officer was not trying to pin me on idling. He was mostly concerned about me leaving my car on unattended.

He mentioned that a ton of cars get stolen in Vancouver and that I was "lucky" no one took my car while it was on...

He totally overlooked the fact that I explained to him about the vehicle being locked and with features that disengage the engine without the key which has the immobilizer bypass chip embedded.

[Soundy]

He can show his concern without handing you a ticket, especially not one that can be easily disputed. As noted, the section he wrote it under specifically states that you may leave it running if it's been "locked or made secure", and you've covered both criteria by locking it, AND having the immobilizer. One tug on the door handle could have proved to him on the spot that you were in compliance with the regulations.

[johny]

Gota love Canada. where potential victims are charged instead of going after thieves because it's easier.

if an officer walked onto my property and starting testing my door handles. I'd be pressing charges for trespassing and attempted car theft.

[sebberry]

go sit in the waiting lounge...

if you're driving in the winter. you should always have enough clothes in the car to stay warm. what if your car dies on the side of the road somewhere?


I'd rather not sit in a crowded room in the middle of cold and flu season. Running the car may not be the most efficient way to keep warm, but the energy used isn't going to waste either.

Or I could do as you suggest and huddle up in the trunk under an emergency blanket. Yes. That'll work.

[sebberry]

Gota love Canada. where potential victims are charged instead of going after thieves because it's easier.

if an officer walked onto my property and starting testing my door handles. I'd be pressing charges for trespassing and attempted car theft.

+1

[hchang]

Gota love Canada. where potential victims are charged instead of going after thieves because it's easier.

if an officer walked onto my property and starting testing my door handles. I'd be pressing charges for trespassing and attempted car theft.




The car was parked along the side of the house, small city street, not personal property.

.

[Soundy]

I'd rather not sit in a crowded room in the middle of cold and flu season. Running the car may not be the most efficient way to keep warm, but the energy used isn't going to waste either.

Or I could do as you suggest and huddle up in the trunk under an emergency blanket. Yes. That'll work.

Maybe you should just stay home... it's safer that way.

[zulutango]

Maybe sequester yourself in your "man-cage" with lots of beer, pizza delivery on speed dial, the bootleggers/taxi company on call for more beer, the Cannucks schedule and replacement batteries for the LCD 3D HD TV remote? :thumbsup:

[sebberry]

Maybe you should just stay home... it's safer that way.

Ok, I'll do that, where even more emissions are produced keeping the place warm ;)

[Soundy]

Switch to electric heat at home - no emissions from hydroelectric.

[gars]

a wood burning stove is carbon neutral as well ;)

[zulutango]

I think the "emissions" he had in mind involved consumption of lentels, warm swelling feelings in the lower torso and much blaming of the dog for the resulting pleasurable effect. ( at least pleasurable to the male of the species...homo sapiens )

[sebberry]

I think your spy drones have been looking through the wrong window :rolleyes: