[bcrdukes]

Hey folks,

I know this is Drivers Ed 101 but seriously, I need some good reassurance because I've been encountering some bad drivers out there.

When there's a four-way stop and two cars just so happen to stop at the same time, the car on the right always gets right of way, correct? Lately, I've been noticing a lot of drivers not abiding to this rule. They just take off and go thinking they were simply there first.

Is this right-of-way rule still applicable? :confused:

[K-Dub]

car on right goes first.

[Splinter]

Yep and if they arrive from opposite sides, left turn yields to straight through or right hand turn.

[boxeraddict]

I love the 4-way stops where it is one lane leading up to the stop sign but it is wide enough for two cars to squeeze in with one always making a right-turn out of turn..

[Uncle Benz]

Yes the rule is applicable. Most people just forget about it.

[CRS]

You're right, if you're on the right you get right of way. And if you're opposing each other, one that wants to go straight and one that wants to turn left, the one who wants straight gets right of way.

Other drivers are just bad.

/thread

[wing_woo]

Speaking of 4-way stops, I really hate how most mall parking lots just put a stop sign on all 4 sides and expect everyone to know it's a 4-Way stop. I see people ignoring the stop signs all the time in there too.

[jeckyll]

If I get there at the same time as another car, I generally will wave them through.

Why? Because in short, people are stupid and the 3 seconds it takes to wave them through is well worth it compared to the time and hassle of dealing with an accident (never mind the risk).

:)

People in North America seem to not understand the right of way concept and they also seem to have a hard time counting to 4 at a 4 way intersection...

[ninjatune]

I hate when people don't come to a complete stop and are still rolling forward slowly. I make a complete stop, and then I proceed because they havent stopped yet (so it's my turn), and then I get the finger or something stupid. Turkeys....

[Soundy]

If I get there at the same time as another car, I generally will wave them through.

Why? Because in short, people are stupid and the 3 seconds it takes to wave them through is well worth it compared to the time and hassle of dealing with an accident (never mind the risk).

:)

People in North America seem to not understand the right of way concept and they also seem to have a hard time counting to 4 at a 4 way intersection...

Given the problems people have with the concept of a four-way stop, which we've had for decades, I'm amazed at the rush to more roundabouts and traffic circles we're seeing now on major commuter routes. These things have never been taught outside of a brief mention of their use for traffic calming on small residential streets in the rules-of-the-road booklets. Nobody knows how to use them properly, yet we're seeing more and more of them - many two lanes - on major routes. The roads around the new Golden Ears and Pitt River bridges will be rife with them, and all the traffic relief afforded by the bridges will be negated by the chaos created by the traffic circles... [/rant]

[TekDragon]

Given the problems people have with the concept of a four-way stop, which we've had for decades, I'm amazed at the rush to more roundabouts and traffic circles we're seeing now on major commuter routes. These things have never been taught outside of a brief mention of their use for traffic calming on small residential streets in the rules-of-the-road booklets. Nobody knows how to use them properly, yet we're seeing more and more of them - many two lanes - on major routes. The roads around the new Golden Ears and Pitt River bridges will be rife with them, and all the traffic relief afforded by the bridges will be negated by the chaos created by the traffic circles... [/rant]

People don't know how to use these. Yield to traffic in the circle, not run through and take right of way. I've had many close calls in here. Almost had a head on with an ambulance turning LEFT in it.

[underscore]

People don't know how to use these. Yield to traffic in the circle, not run through and take right of way. I've had many close calls in here. Almost had a head on with an ambulance turning LEFT in it.

Ambulances and other emergency vehicles have the right of way and get to do whatever the f*** they want. It's a damn ambulance man.

[jeckyll]

Given the problems people have with the concept of a four-way stop, which we've had for decades, I'm amazed at the rush to more roundabouts and traffic circles we're seeing now on major commuter routes. These things have never been taught outside of a brief mention of their use for traffic calming on small residential streets in the rules-of-the-road booklets. Nobody knows how to use them properly, yet we're seeing more and more of them - many two lanes - on major routes. The roads around the new Golden Ears and Pitt River bridges will be rife with them, and all the traffic relief afforded by the bridges will be negated by the chaos created by the traffic circles... [/rant]

They really need a bit of an education campaign about how roundabouts work. They are building a number in Kitsilano and taking out stop signs. People blaze in there with no regard for whats going on ...

[BNR32_Coupe]

Has any of you encountered those situations where you're on the left side, and the person on the right doesn't go first? Then you decide to go since the other persons an idiot, then they decide to go at the same time.

[Soundy]

People don't know how to use these. Yield to traffic in the circle, not run through and take right of way. I've had many close calls in here.

I keep seeing people already in the roundabout, stopping for cars waiting to enter. They don't seem to understand that once you're in there, YOU have the right of way. It's seriously fucked up.

Doesn't help that most of the ones I've seen so far (particularly on Mt. Lehman Rd. on both sides of the freeway) have the lines completely worn away and poor signage, so you get people in the inside lane trying to go straight through when the person in the outside lane is trying to curve around... and stupid shit like that.

[DasHooch]

Sorry to resurrect a dead thread, but it's on topic:

What I call the second round or busy 4 way etiquette. After the first car goes, or in case of a 'tie' the car on the right (or the car not turning left if across) then what happens. I was debating this with my wife but could not make a reference to back up my claims.

I always treated it as though everything resets after the first car goes. So today, 3 cars get to the 4 way stop pretty close together. I'm going straight through, but I got there last. There's a car to my right which got there first, and a car across which beat me to the stop sign. Both other cars are signaling turning left. I'm yielding expecting the guy on my right to go, then back to ground zero, so I'm going to go before the guy across turns left. This is not what the car across from me thought was correct, as he turned left in front of me after the guy on the right did; chronological order.

Maybe I picked this up as a bad habit from busy 4 way stops or maybe I'm right. I'm still looking for where it's written in the law or bylaw.

Generally, at busy 4 ways, I'll move up to the stop line after the car in front has entered the intersection, wait for the cross traffic to go, then assume I have the right of way if I'm going straight or turning right, else I will yield if turning left. I'm always expecting the driver across from me turning left to yield because we were both at the stop signs when the cross traffic went through before us and when they got through the right of way 'reset'. Should I be watching the entire intersection for pure chronological order instead?

I'm almost 100% sure I'm right on this one, but I have a bad feeling I just got into this habit because it's more efficient and maybe most people have just let me get away with it. So am I a jerk or what? I haven't found much but it looks like I'm a jerk.

[Rich Sandor]

I always treated it as though everything resets after the first car goes.

You're not a jerk, you're just wrong. First come, first serve. The order of arrival and precedence continues once the first car has made it's move.

If four cars (each with more cars behind them) arrive at the stop signs the same time, one will have to go first, and from then on, there will be an order for all subsequent cars who arrive at the intersection.

The rules of 'car to the right goes first' or 'car going straight goes first' only apply when conflicting traffic arrives at the exact same time, once they've gone, it's back to order of arrival.

[winson604]

Go through this every day since there's a 4 way stop by my house. If I hit the sign at the same time I usually just give the wave even if I have the right of way. With all the idiot drivers out there I don't want to risk getting hit by a dumb ass even if I'm 100% correct in the eyes of ICBC. Not worth the hassle and I can wait a few seconds for me to go.

[MR_BIGGS]

I'm the same way. If I get to a 4 way stop sign at the same time with someone else, I'll just wave them through. Makes things so much easier, for their lack of driving sense.

One time I was behind a car turning at a four way stop and he got their at the same time as the car to the left of him. He inched, the other guy inched forward. They kept breaking, inching forward, breaking inching forward until both were like half a car length from each other. I couldn't stop laughing!

[E=mc²]

I always treated it as though everything resets after the first car goes.

the rules for a 4-way stop are pretty clear cut I don't understand how you can possibly think everything resets after the first car goes.

[silva95teg]

When i took a defensive driving class for work we were told never to wave another car through an intersection, If an accident results from them taking your directions you can be found liable. I don't know if that works out legally but it does make some sense.

[slammer111]

I always thought that if people arrive at 4-way stops at different times (say 0.5s between each car), the order that people go is ALWAYS the same as the way people came in, regardless of who's to the L/R of who.

OP, are you sure the car on your left arrived at EXACTLY the same time as you did, and not say 0.5s sooner? If a car arrived on my L before I did, even if it was before, I just let them go, and usually they do go. ;)

I love the 4-way stops where it is one lane leading up to the stop sign but it is wide enough for two cars to squeeze in with one always making a right-turn out of turn..Not sure if that move is 100% legal but personally I don't see what the problem is if the guy turning R goes right when (and not before) the guy beside him also goes. It's not like he's taking up any more space or blocking someone's way.

The best roundabouts for racking up our insurance premiums are the ones put at the intersection of major and minor streets. Blenheim comes to mind. Pretty much EVERYONE on Blenheim just blows through them, cutting off/smoking anyone who inches out from the side streets. I know someone (Personal Injury lawyer) who makes a killing off of these.

Cops would have a field day there filling their quotas. And the worst part is, they were measuring traffic speeds with those cables across the road. I think the City will find that roundabouts don't exactly make people slow down or lower accident rates.

[skidmark]

Not sure if that move is 100% legal but personally I don't see what the problem is if the guy turning R goes right when (and not before) the guy beside him also goes. It's not like he's taking up any more space or blocking someone's way.

I generally find that the doofus turning is making an illegal pass on the right, pulls up past the person in front and blocks that person's view of whatever is to the right forcing him to wait longer than he would have to make sure that the way is clear.

Cops would have a field day there filling their quotas.

I spent 25 years in policing without a ticket quota. In fact, the one restriction I did have was a limit on the number of speeding tickets I wrote. Let's put this stupid idea to bed once and for all.

And the worst part is, they were measuring traffic speeds with those cables across the road. I don't the City will find that roundabouts don't exactly make people slow down or lower accident rates.

Although these devices can measure speeds, they are generally there to do traffic counts and see how the roads are being utilized by traffic.

[silva95teg]

Although these devices can measure speeds, they are generally there to do traffic counts and see how the roads are being utilized by traffic.


I have seen two types of those in place, single ones which must just be counting cars and double ones which must be counting and taking speed records, otherwise why not just use a single ?

[Presto]

I have seen two types of those in place, single ones which must just be counting cars and double ones which must be counting and taking speed records, otherwise why not just use a single ?

My guess is the double ones are for determining the direction of the counted vehicle.

[silva95teg]

My guess is the double ones are for determining the direction of the counted vehicle.

Yeah that makes sense, but i have seen the doubles across only one direction as well.

[jlenko]

I love the 4-way stops where it is one lane leading up to the stop sign but it is wide enough for two cars to squeeze in with one always making a right-turn out of turn..

The trick here is to put your car in the middle of the lane... so there's no longer enough room for someone to squeeze past.

[skidmark]

My guess is the double ones are for determining the direction of the counted vehicle.

You have to get up early to fool Presto!

[E=mc²]

The trick here is to put your car in the middle of the lane... so there's no longer enough room for someone to squeeze past.

I don't see a problem with people moving up beside you to make a right turn. I do that all the time and i see everyone do it.
I've never had any issues with this. So long as the right turner yields to oncoming left turns or cross traffic coming from the left (if they arrived first).

the point is, the right turner rarely affects other traffic. I think it's fine as it speeds up the flow of traffic.

[skidmark]

I do that all the time and i see everyone do it.

For sure that means it must be proper and legal to do it...

[E=mc²]

No i never said it was legal. I'm not here to argue the law.
My previous post was in response to jlenko's post. I just don't see the need to purposely wait in the middle of the lane to block cars from coming up on your right. If someone is turning right they don't affect you going straight or turning left.

And if you are turning right yourself, you better be positioning your car on the right hand side of the lane.

[skidmark]

No i never said it was legal. I'm not here to argue the law.

OK, sorry, that's the way I took it when I read it.

If someone is turning right they don't affect you going straight or turning left.

But it does, and I've already explained how it causes problems when people to it to me.

[silva95teg]

Has anyone seen that 4 way stop by best buy in coquitlam, it has separate right turn lanes but the arrows are worn off the pavement so people try to go straight from them. It is quite the show when 8 people arrive there at one time.

[TypeRNammer]

Fraser and 41st Ave was a gong show the other day with the traffic lights out.

For example, first set of cars on Fraser St just cross 41st ave heading north bound, just as they finish crossing the intersection I slowly rolled onto the intersection to cross 41st Ave heading Westbound, but the 2nd set of cars behind the first set got impatient, started to follow closely to the first set of cars almost getting into a collision with me.

So would it be their fault for not yielding because I didn't finish crossing the intersection?

[DasHooch]

The second set of cars would definitely be in the wrong following the cars in front of them. Although you might technically have to yield to them if they entered the intersection before you did (right or wrong, you're not allowed to ram people).

[DasHooch]

the rules for a 4-way stop are pretty clear cut I don't understand how you can possibly think everything resets after the first car goes.

Imagine a time before the internet was common. Imagine pulling up to multiple busy 4 ways everyday and seeing the east-west cars head straight across at the same time, then the north-south car cross straight across at the same time. Arguably the cars behind them hit the stop lines at the same time, so the guy turning left would always be yielding. This is what I got accustomed to. I think I actually justified it as making more sense because it is more efficient in moving cars through the intersection in most cases.

I guess even when cars are going north & south (both straight), they shouldn't leave the stop lines at the same time, but from what I see they do.

Multiple lanes governed by the same stop sign seem ridiculous to me, as many cars will just assume the order of whichever car got to that stop sign first and go at the same time. I guess it just allows cars turning right to bypass the line up - and that indicates that it isn't legal to do it at single lane roads.

Can anyone point out the law or bylaw that covers 4 way stops? I can't find it in the MVA other than some references to 'yield to the right'.

[DasHooch]

Oh, and here's another question. If the vehicle that should have the right of way is yielding to pedestrians, should the vehicles clear of pedestrians wait or proceed?

[misteranswer]

Go through this every day since there's a 4 way stop by my house. If I hit the sign at the same time I usually just give the wave even if I have the right of way. With all the idiot drivers out there I don't want to risk getting hit by a dumb ass even if I'm 100% correct in the eyes of ICBC. Not worth the hassle and I can wait a few seconds for me to go.

I'm the same way. If I get to a 4 way stop sign at the same time with someone else, I'll just wave them through. Makes things so much easier, for their lack of driving sense.

One time I was behind a car turning at a four way stop and he got their at the same time as the car to the left of him. He inched, the other guy inched forward. They kept breaking, inching forward, breaking inching forward until both were like half a car length from each other. I couldn't stop laughing!

So it must be you two who I see continually see trying to wave each other in while holding up traffic for 30 seconds.

[E=mc²]

Multiple lanes governed by the same stop sign seem ridiculous to me, as many cars will just assume the order of whichever car got to that stop sign first and go at the same time. I guess it just allows cars turning right to bypass the line up - and that indicates that it isn't legal to do it at single lane roads.

Can anyone point out the law or bylaw that covers 4 way stops? I can't find it in the MVA other than some references to 'yield to the right'.

Yeah multiple lanes can be confusing, but much like with most rules, you have the legal method, and you have the method normally used in practice. If car A going north stops first, and then car B also going north but in an adjacent lane comes after, he can pretty much go at the same time as Car A regardless of whether cross traffic has arrived before B (but after A). This speeds up flow and makes sense because if Car A is gonna go straight through, cross traffic can't go anyway so car B going does not cost anyone else any time. Of course you often get those assholes who follow closely behind the car in front in order to cross the intersection without having to stop.

Also, if Car A arrives before Car B, but car A as to wait for pedestrians to cross, then in most cases Car B will skip A's turn and go on ahead. This becomes more important if the pedestrian(s) crossing in front of car A are either slow, or have a lot of kids crossing at once, thereby taking a long time. Again, not saying anything about the law here, just basing it on observation.

[nipples]

I almost never see people following the 4way stop rules! It's almost always changing - despite pileups on all 4 sides!! Moron drivers
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