[03aspec]

well i have always known that i wanted a pickup, now the time has come because i am sick of driving a lowered car. so what im looking for is a pickup that is good on road and good off road. on road i want it to have a fairly smooth and decent ride, nothing too stiff, as for offroad i just need something that i would be able to take into the bush or something on the weekends and not have it break on me. i also will need something that's fairly easy to work on and has a good aftermarket for parts. any ideas guys?

[narfy]

96+ tacoma 3.4... hands down, most reliable, smoothest running compact 4x4...

[03aspec]

sorry i also should have mentioned that i want something 04+.. and since i have owned an acura, theres a few things that i have grown used to such as, heated seats, leather etc... all these things will also be taken into consideration.

[1983 Z28]

Hm... something new... but easy to work on; that's a toughie.

New Tacoma's are pretty nice... although you're definitely going to need to sacrifice a few of the creature comforts in any of the small trucks (Taco, Dakota, Ranger etc etc) as it's pretty rare to find one with a leather interior. If you need that level of luxury, you're going to be dropping a pretty fair chunk of coin on a full-size pickup, and probably one of the upper trim models as well. I'd avoid the Tundra, as it's had nothing but problems, and the previous generation lacks the aftermarket support of the domestic trucks. If you're shopping for an F-150/Ram/Silverado, there really isn't a HUGE difference between them; they're all pretty good but they definitely give different experiences so you're best driving all three to decide.

Although, for my money, if I had to buy a full size truck, I'd go shopping for a Nissan Titan. And the Pro4X model comes with stock locking differentials, longer suspension, and shorter gearing; it was easily my favourite full-size truck.

[03aspec]

ya the titan is one of my favorites, but brand new they are really expensive... also with some of the smaller trucks, their gas mileage isn't the greatest so getting a fullsize is often better.

[1983 Z28]

Well, your gas mileage will suck in anything that you prepare to take off road. Big tires, short gearing, and lots of torque usually burns a lot of fuel. Oddly enough, the best fuel economy I've had in a normal truck was in a Dodge Ram 3500. 11L / 100 km on a round trip to Osoyoos and back. But diesel is now stupidly expensive!

[03aspec]

yes your right about that.. i think that taking a newer truck and turning into a wheeler is going to cost me a lot of money. because its most likely not going to stay in one piece.

[1983 Z28]

Well, it depends on the wheeling you plan to do. If you're looking at crawling up frozen waterfalls and fording 5' streams, yeah, you're probably not going to want a nice, shiny new truck, because it will be destroyed. That's why all those brand new GMs and Super Dutys you see running around with 12" lifts and massive tires have perfectly shiny paint... they've got the capability (kind of), but no one wants to demolish their brand new $50,000 truck.

But you can take a newish vehicle off road and not destroy it. I don't know what your budget is, and how specific you were when you said you wanted a "pickup," but there's a couple things to think about:

A) What kind of off-roading you're going to do. There's the sort that involves going places no vehicle has a right to, that eventually culminates in your truck looking like Murd0cs (check page 2 of the pics thread), and can do a lot of damage to a poorly prepared truck. Off-road trips a few days long at most, and ground is covered at a slower pace because the ground is more difficult to cover. On road, the trucks suck because they are geared very short, have gigantic tires, and usually don't have a whole lot of creature comforts, seeing as you don't really want to get all gross walking through three feet of mud to winch yourself out of a hole to plopping your muddy ass into a nice, heated leather seat.

Then there expedition work. The trips generally don't cover ground that's quite as extreme, but the good trips are weeks, not days. The trucks don't need 44" tires, or super short gearing, and retain as much comfort as they can because you're going to spend a long time behind the wheel. But, they still have the same soft, long suspension and usually have so much junk strapped to them that they wallow around on the pavement like overladen elephants. Like mine.

If you want the first, you want a simple, rugged, common truck, because you'll be buying a lot of replacement parts. I'm not going to lie, I'm probably not the one to talk to about that sort of off roading, seeing as it's not what I do, persay. But if you want an expedition truck, you probably want something enclosed like an SUV (it keeps your food, gear and clothing dry and clean when you're wheeling), that gets decent gas mileage and has a large fuel capacity (I can carry 200 litres). It should have a strong drivetrain, but you will probably spend more on expedition gear than replacement parts, because once the truck is set up, you probably won't keep breaking stuff.

Think of it this way: off roaders like Mur0c and such will crawl over a rock in the trail to see if they can. Off roaders like myself will drive around the truck to see what's on the other side.

If you want to do the first, but retain some comfort, you're never going to go up some of the trails that the more extreme rigs can, but you can still have plenty of fun in a new Nissan Titan Pro4X without tearing it apart. If you want to do the first, shop for a Jeep Wranger Unlimited, preferably the Rubicon model.

But if you give a few more criteria, like what sort of plan you have for off-roading the truck, and a budget, we can probably help more.

[03aspec]

wow that is very informative, thank you for all your help. what i am mostly looking for is something that i can drive daily and take through trails on the weekend and have a little fun with. i think the idea that fits what im talking about is the first one that you mentioned, the second one is just way too much for what i want to do, lol. i have also considered jeeps, but i want something with a bed that i can haul around stuff with ie. an atv, because i plan on buying one in the near future. and as for my budget, i currently have my car up for sale so what ever i get for the car will be my budget for a truck, $17,000 or around that figure.

[1983 Z28]

Alrighty, well... in that price range, you've got one really, really good option, and a bunch of mediocre ones.

Basically, hit Ebay and look for a Dodge Ram 2500 Power Wagon. 33" tires, a solid front axle, 4.56 gears, electronic disconnecting swap bars, and most importantly electronic locking differentials and a factory-fitted winch make it the single most capable truck out there. It'll save you a ton because it's built to fulfill your needs; daily driver comfort, but some serious off-road ability. And with all that stuff already fitted, you won't need to buy it!

[03aspec]

power wagons are awesome trucks, but they are so hard to come by. there's only 2 on ebay!! i have also been considering a jeep grand cherokee, 99 or 00 with the inline 6, those from what i hear are actually a decent place to start, maybe once i become rich and have some serious money i can buy this http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Toyota-Land-Cruiser-FJ43-1969-ICON-FJ43-Land-Cruiser-Restored-Modified-Mint_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a3Q7 c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1308QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQha shZitem160304470265QQitemZ160304470265QQptZUSQ5fCa rsQ5fTrucks

[1983 Z28]

BAHAHA Icon shit. I can't figure out why anyone buys those... I mean, you're paying Lambo money for a new version of what was essentially a military vehicle. It's a fad!

Besides, Land Rover's are better... ;)

But I'd stick with the Power Wagon; if you're not in a huge rush, it's worth it to wait around to get something that's already halfway there, stock. Lockers and winches ain't (<edited) cheap!

[jeffh]

^ so i am discovering... to get 31's rear locker and winch+winch bumpers we're talking about $2500 in parts alone, 10times what i paid for my heep!

[1983 Z28]

Yeah, I know. Try owning a truck that comes stock with friggen 10-spline axles that are made from jello. YAY! I looked at 24-spline chromoly axles a while back, and to replace all four crappy 10-spline axles/CVs/etc etc was $2050 US... and that's not including the price of the new diffs I'd need to fit the new axles.

I think I'll just carry spares and suffer through a few broken axles. Christ, it'd be cheaper for me to modify a pair of Ford 9" axles.

EDIT: What axles are under your Cherokee?

EDIT x 2: To the OP, I may be coming out of left field here, but one of the nice things about 4x4s is that you can afford the best ones in the world. The fastest and nicest cars in the world may cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, but you can get into what is literally the best off-road vehicle in the world for less than 17K. Yes, you give up on the comfort of an Acura (no heated seats, and manual windows), but a Mercedes Unimog running on biodiesel gets you a cheap daily driver that is pretty much considered the best vehicle you can own, when it comes to off roading. There's a nice U-900 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-Trucks___1974-MERCEDES-UNIMOG-U-900-406-DO-ALL-TRUCK-AWESOME_W0QQitemZ220338171787QQddnZCarsQ20Q26Q20Tr ucksQQddiZ2282QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?ha sh=item220338171787&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72%3A727|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318) on Ebay for 15K...

And as someone that drives something that most people consider too "uncomfortable" for daily commuting, I must say, it's perfectly easy to commute in once you get used to it... and my truck's less "comfortable" than a Unimog!

[03aspec]

lol, i think you are getting into this a bit too much for me, a unimog is totally way out to left field for me, i really really appreciate your help with this, but i still am just a beginner and i need something that i can learn to wheel with. if i really want too, later on down the road i can build a hard core offroad machine. but for now, i think a jeep might be my best bet, because its cheap and parts are readily available. i also want to do a resto on a foxbody mustang so, i think if i buy an older jeep i can save a bit more money for the car. once again though, thank you for all your help.

[03aspec]

well today i decided to step into a toyota dealership and check out the new 09 taco's, its a really really nice little truck, the one i was looking at was the trd edition, came with downhill assist, electronic locking rear diff, upgraded alternator there was also an option for bilstein shocks i believe. i was honestly amazed at how much the truck comes with, it also drove really nice. i really like this truck.

[INeRtia01]

^can't go wrong with a toyota, except theyre kinda pricey. i love those TRD models. i have a 3rd gen 4runner. i woulda loved to pick up a 4door tacoma but its too much for me. it serves me well off-road too!

[1983 Z28]

They ain't bad. But don't be blinded by gadgets and brand names like Bilstien and downhill assist; you don't need either of those and it's an easy way for Toyota to make a bunch of money for little value.

Also, beware the new Taco. Plastic fender flares, thin sheetmetal, a composite bed and plastic bumpers means that if you do end up putting it up against something, you will be going back to your dealer and dropping a TON of money of replacement body panels. The rear locker is nice, but for 35K, there's better buys. Like any one of the 11 2008 Nisssan Titans that are in the Buy & Sell, especially the two Pro4X models.

[INeRtia01]

yeah. like i said, yota's aint cheap. if you do plan on wheeling it hard, i would get something a lil older. banging up a new truck on the trails aint gonna be very fun.

[OffroadZuki]

my old boss has an '06 or something Taco 4x4 crew cab...we've taken it 4x4'ing and it was pretty damn good...I love the TRD versions of it. I've driven it too and it's nice, but too big for my taste...plus, gas mileage sucks ass for most of those trucks.

When I was looking at newer trucks I was really tempted by the Ranger Level II...but didn't do much research 'cuz I decided to go with something older, cheaper and better on gas :)

[03aspec]

ya thats what i was thinking too, its too expensive brand new to do anything with.. im honestly all over the place with this, lol.. i have no clue where to start.. a jeep does sound very tempting though, cheap and fairly reliable. gc with the 4.0L inline 6

[INeRtia01]

first thing u should think of is do u want an SUV or a pick up truck? then its either u want an import or domestic. then go from there.

[03aspec]

well since im just starting off, im thinking domestic suv, i need something thats non-japanese now, lol.. ive only ever owned honda's so i need a change..

[1983 Z28]

Domestic SUV? Fuck, easy as PIE.

Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon. Nothing better.

And cheap as dirt hahah

[BrRsn]

ya thats what i was thinking too, its too expensive brand new to do anything with.. im honestly all over the place with this, lol.. i have no clue where to start.. a jeep does sound very tempting though, cheap and fairly reliable. gc with the 4.0L inline 6

If you're getting a grand cherokee be aware that for the large power increase from the 4.0L to the 4.7L, there's a difference of about 1 MPG.

On a 04 4.7L jeep grand cherokee I'm getting about 13L/100KM's and that's with me raping the gas, and doing city driving.

[Quicksilver]

if you're not 100% about getting a truck, and want something that's comfy to drive daily, and able to take out on the weekend and flog it in the bush, I definately recommend the Jeep Rubicon.

[03aspec]

well i went out and looked at the jeep today, i thought it was going to have a cramped interior, but its not bad at all.. it really does seem like something that can be driven daily and also be thrown into the bush on the weekends with out hesitation.. not a bad little suv

[1983 Z28]

Not at all, although the six speed has such short gearing it can get a little frustrating at times in city traffic where you're through first gear in all of 2 seconds.

[jeffh]

^my heep has dana 30 front and 35 rear

this is why i like the auto tranny in my 4x, i cant imagine having to slip my clutch etc to crawl over stuff

why a 96-01 cherokee with a strait 6 isnt top on you list im not sure tho. im gonna flog my 92 and buy a 99 with 130 000 kms for 5k tomorrow. no brainer for such a tough and versatile vehicle.
add 2 g in a quality lift and 5 tires and it will be capable enough to tackle anything i have the balls to attempt while still being comfortable and stockish

[03aspec]

grand cherokee? or the regular one?

[jeffh]

regular. one of my mechanics at honda worked at dodge for 7 years. swears by the regular cherokee, and says the grand isnt worth the metal its made out of. trail ready vs soccer mom spec

having said that, a friend of mine has a grand with the v8 and it is pretty sweet as far as comfort and power go

[1983 Z28]

Beyond the interior spec and the V8, what's the Grand Cherokee include that makes it less trail worthy than the regular?

[jeffh]

gas tank location makes it real piggy in the rear
more complicated suspension than the normal ones, (its 4 coils instead of coil front and leaf rear) the stamped steel control arms that result from this suspension are a weak point. they also weigh more. the v8 trannys arent as tough as the strait 6 as well
and not all of them came with a real transfer case

[1983 Z28]

Interesting... no regular Cherokee's with coil springs all around, eh? How popular are the four corner coil spring swaps for the rears of regular Cherokees?

[jeffh]

^ unless you are going long arm/ 4-link its just not done from what i have seen

[RRxtar]

im the guy with the ZJ GC V8

trannys and transfer cases are definitely the weak link in the drive train. the transfer case is an AWD center dif that engaged when the rear slips. it does have a positive engaging low range tho. the front ends usually come with CV joins upfront instead of U-joints. that being said, some GCs can be found with Us up front and a NV231 or NV 242 swap is nearly a direct bolt in and can be sourced from a wrecker for a couple bills. another shitty move for Jeep was to throw an aluminum housing D44a in the rear instead of the D35 which makes finding a locker all but impossible (now that Aussie has stopped making them). altho an 8.8 is a common swap. aside from that, the torquey V8 is a pretty strong motor.

the coil spring design and solid axles front and rear make for easy lifting. most lift kids are extremely expandable to go from a simple lift to a full kit. 3.5" lift will clear 31x10.5s at full articulation with sway bars discoed too.

the main reason i like the GC over the regular cherokee is its just a fair bit nicer vehicle all around. its like driving an accord instead of a civic. that being said, if i was building a full trail jeep rig, it would be a regular cherokee, not a GC

[03aspec]

well even after all of your guy's help, im still lost as to what i want.. lol. i have never for the life of me been able to settle my mind down and focus on one certain kind of vehicle.. for me the rubicon jeep is just too under powered. i think im just going to go with what i have always wanted from the time i bought my first car, a pickup. 04-05 dodge ram 1500 slt.