[willystyle]

I am planning to build a personal file server for primarily home use (occasionally, over the web). It will be used as storage to facilitate large files; such as, movies and music. Unfortunately, I've never built a file server before, so I don't know where to begin.

Here are some features that I've taken into consideration.

I will be using Windows Server 2003 as the OS, unless there are better options out there?

Backing up files won't be necessary as they are just multimedia files.

The biggest issue will be connectivity because I want it to be wireless, and if possible, be capable of streaming media off the server. What is the best and most effective way to achieve this? "G" network is too slow for SMB transfer, and "N" is not fully developed yet (How long would it take to transfer a 1gb file within ur own network with "N"?), what about Power over Ethernet?

I am planning to use my old computer as a file server, and just purchase new parts where it's needed like HDs and fans; therefore, would a AMD 3800+ Dualcore with 2gb of RAM be enough processing power to serve 2 clients simultaneously? or should I just build a new one from scratch?

That's all I can think of for now. I am open to suggestions. Thanks!

[DaFonz]

For two clients, a 3800+ is more than enough... your disk i/o is going to be the bottleneck here and streaming 2 movies isnt going to stress your HDs at all.

[Presto]

You don't need much hardware, if you're only serving files on a home network. Your AMD dual core would be more than sufficient. I have a server in the closet that shares files, downloads torrents, and also has Apache (web server). It's running a P4 with WinXP, 1GB of ram. I don't like wireless, so all my computers are on cat5. I don't have a landline, so I converted all my phone jacks to RJ45.

[willystyle]

For two clients, a 3800+ is more than enough... your disk i/o is going to be the bottleneck here and streaming 2 movies isnt going to stress your HDs at all.
Why would my disk's i/o be a bottleneck? if anything, I would think my wireless network be the culprit, as a "G" network's real-life SMB transfer speed is only 5-6Mbps, making wireless streaming rather difficult, unless there are better solutions.

[John]

The only available solution to slow wireless transfer speeds is CAT5e.

[.Renn.Sport]

file server? just buy a NAS

[willystyle]

The only available solution to slow wireless transfer speeds is CAT5e.
How would it be wireless if im using CAT 5e cables? I've already said I don't want a wired network for streaming, preferably.

file server? just buy a NAS
Why spend an extra $200 on an enclosure when I already have an existing case occupying space in my bedroom? I can put that additional saving towards an additional HD etc.

[lilaznviper]

just get wireless N then if you do not want to go wired

[willystyle]

just get wireless N then if you do not want to go wired
Yes, I can move forward with that, but I was hoping that there would be a similar or better solution out there, as "N" has yet been finalized.

Does anyone have experience with Ethernet over Powerline? If so, How are the results compared to "N"?

[.Renn.Sport]

How would it be wireless if im using CAT 5e cables? I've already said I don't want a wired network for streaming, preferably.


Why spend an extra $200 on an enclosure when I already have an existing case occupying space in my bedroom? I can put that additional saving towards an additional HD etc.

becuz a nas would only take 5 minutes to setup and consumes much less power.

or just run openNAS instead of windows server 2003... its a waste of resource.

a D-LINK DNS-323 is like $120 bux only

or just put int hard drive in your desktop and share the drives....

[nns]

I think you're confused as to what Power Over Ethernet does. PoE is not a wireless alternative to the 802.11n standard. PoE is simply the feature that allows a device to be powered by the same ethernet cable that it's plugged into. EG: a port on a switch can power an access point it's connected to via Cat5e.

I don't know why you're so concerned about the current Draft N technology being incompatible with the final 802.11n standard. Whenever 802.11n actually becomes a formal standard, it should be able to support older Draft N devices. Even if it didn't, should you go with the current N devices, you still have a wireless technology that meets your CURRENT wireless needs.

[.Renn.Sport]

Draft 2.0 is pretty much the final spec already

[Presto]

I think you're confused as to what Power Over Ethernet does.


Ethernet over Powerline is what OP is talking about.

[aznrsx1979]

becuz a nas would only take 5 minutes to setup and consumes much less power.

or just run openNAS instead of windows server 2003... its a waste of resource.

a D-LINK DNS-323 is like $120 bux only

or just put int hard drive in your desktop and share the drives....

I agree, just got with a NAS. I picked up the D-Link DNS-323 and it works fine. Why set up a whole other tower when you don't need to.

[nns]

You're probably right. He said Power over Ethernet before, then Ethernet over Powerline later.

[Manic!]

You might want to look at this thread.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1071162

and take a look at unraid for a os
http://lime-technology.com/?page_id=46

[InvisibleSoul]

A fileserver needs next to zero processing power. Even an old PII with 256MB would probably do just fine. You're thinking it's more complicated than it really is. But yeah, the biggest bottleneck is for sure is the network. Unfortunately, wireless just isn't the way to go if you're streaming high bitrate files... just not reliable enough.

[FordFanatic]

You don't need much hardware, if you're only serving files on a home network. Your AMD dual core would be more than sufficient. I have a server in the closet that shares files, downloads torrents, and also has Apache (web server). It's running a P4 with WinXP, 1GB of ram. I don't like wireless, so all my computers are on cat5. I don't have a landline, so I converted all my phone jacks to RJ45.

I have 6 computers throughout the house that are networked wirelessly. I would love to network them via cables for reliability but I'm too lazy to run wires through the walls. Do you have a link to a guide that shows you how to convert the phone jacks? Also, would you be able to use a router with the phone jacks? (As in a different ip address for each jack?) Or is it a system that requires the use of splitters?

[willystyle]

I think you're confused as to what Power Over Ethernet does. PoE is not a wireless alternative to the 802.11n standard. PoE is simply the feature that allows a device to be powered by the same ethernet cable that it's plugged into. EG: a port on a switch can power an access point it's connected to via Cat5e.

I don't know why you're so concerned about the current Draft N technology being incompatible with the final 802.11n standard. Whenever 802.11n actually becomes a formal standard, it should be able to support older Draft N devices. Even if it didn't, should you go with the current N devices, you still have a wireless technology that meets your CURRENT wireless needs.

Sorry about the confusion, I actually meant Ethernet over Powerline. Something like this..

http://www.netgear.com/Products/PowerlineNetworking/PowerlineEthernetAdapters/HDXB101.aspx

I agree, just got with a NAS. I picked up the D-Link DNS-323 and it works fine. Why set up a whole other tower when you don't need to.
The problem with that is.... I'm planning to setup a XBOX360 in my network, so that I can stream off of the file server. With the recent firmware upgrade with the D-Link DNS-323 to have compatibility with the 360, there's been alot of XBOX360 issues in the area. I might not want to pursue that route until the issue is solved.

You're probably right. He said Power over Ethernet before, then Ethernet over Powerline later.
Once again, sorry about the confusion.

A fileserver needs next to zero processing power. Even an old PII with 256MB would probably do just fine. You're thinking it's more complicated than it really is. But yeah, the biggest bottleneck is for sure is the network. Unfortunately, wireless just isn't the way to go if you're streaming high bitrate files... just not reliable enough.
Ethernet over Powerline might solve this issue, even if wireless "N" doesn't solve that. That's why i'm inquiring if anyone has experience with that.

Anyone? something like this...

http://www.netgear.com/Products/PowerlineNetworking/PowerlineEthernetAdapters/HDXB101.aspx

[InvisibleSoul]

Ethernet over Powerline might solve this issue, even if wireless "N" doesn't solve that. That's why i'm inquiring if anyone has experience with that.

Anyone? something like this...

http://www.netgear.com/Products/PowerlineNetworking/PowerlineEthernetAdapters/HDXB101.aspx

It probably would be a solution.

Read the reviews on NewEgg... they're generally positive about powerline adapters.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=powerline

[John]

I suspect even Draft N won't be able to do the job if:
1) you are watching HD
2) your distances are over 20 feet.
YMMV

[willystyle]

I suspect even Draft N won't be able to do the job if:
1) you are watching HD
2) your distances are over 20 feet.
YMMV

As mentioned, Draft N 2.0 is the final draft for the specifications before the final roll out, Wouldn't that defeat the purpose of having "next-gen" wireless if it cannot handle HD bandwidth?

I don't really buy that.

[.Renn.Sport]

i can stream videos (divx, h264, xvid, rmvb) perfectly off my NAS(D-Link DNS323) with my sony notebook (wireless G) , streaming videos to my macbook with wireless N doesn't work as well, but its not the network problem but the players for mac. in the windows environment it works great.

even if u got gigabit lan, you might not even be able to stream full HD 1080P content at the current technology anyways.

i've done multiple streams of video all through out my network at home with my NAS and there is absolutely no problem

my old cheap linksys NAS can still stream videos, but not nearly as well as the DNS323.

[willystyle]

even if u got gigabit lan, you might not even be able to stream full HD 1080P content at the current technology anyways.
.
I don't know where you got that information from, but 1080p content requires no more than 50Mbps to transfer in a network, 100Mbps, which most of us have, provides us more than enough headroom to accomplish that task, let alone a Gigabit lan.

Now of course, I am speaking of real world speeds here, not speeds from what the manufacturer suggests.

[Presto]

I have 6 computers throughout the house that are networked wirelessly. I would love to network them via cables for reliability but I'm too lazy to run wires through the walls. Do you have a link to a guide that shows you how to convert the phone jacks? Also, would you be able to use a router with the phone jacks? (As in a different ip address for each jack?) Or is it a system that requires the use of splitters?

Depending on how old your building is, the lines to the phone jacks may be Cat5 cables. You can check this by unscrewing the plate, and see if anything looks like a network cable, or if you see 8 wires. If they are cat5, then you'd just need to replace the phone jacks with RJ45 jacks. There should be a central location where all the jacks lead to, you'll need to install RJ45 jacks at that end, as well. Then all you'll need to do is attach the equipment.

[FordFanatic]

Depending on how old your building is, the lines to the phone jacks may be Cat5 cables. You can check this by unscrewing the plate, and see if anything looks like a network cable, or if you see 8 wires. If they are cat5, then you'd just need to replace the phone jacks with RJ45 jacks. There should be a central location where all the jacks lead to, you'll need to install RJ45 jacks at that end, as well. Then all you'll need to do is attach the equipment.

I pulled a jack and it is indeed network cable. Trouble is I can't find a central location that they all lead to. Unless it's outside beside my cable box. Where in your house did you find yours? (So I can get an idea of where to look.)

[Presto]

I pulled a jack and it is indeed network cable. Trouble is I can't find a central location that they all lead to. Unless it's outside beside my cable box. Where in your house did you find yours? (So I can get an idea of where to look.)

Mine is in a closet. I live in a condo. It could be at the side of the house. If you check there, you should see a number of cables corresponding to the number of jacks you have in your house. If that's not the case, then they'll be a place inside your house. Check for any panels or plates that you can open.

[Soundy]

Hmm, another thought, if you're intent on using a spare PC for this... Windows Server is not really necessary. Standard XP Pro or even Win2K will do nicely.

[willystyle]

Hmm, another thought, if you're intent on using a spare PC for this... Windows Server is not really necessary. Standard XP Pro or even Win2K will do nicely.
Yeah I know, I figured that since I'm not too familiar with Windows Server OS, I should fiddle around with its "advanced" disk management and active directory features.

[Soundy]

Could be interesting for experimenting with... could also be frustrating. All that stuff is really only relevant once you start using the machine as a domain controller. Unless you want your other machines fully reliant on it, I wouldn't suggest it for a simple home file server.

Using Win2K will also let you build your server on a lot less powerful machine, since it uses significantly less resources than XP/W2K3S. If you want to play with AD and other server features, find a copy of Win2K Server and get the best of both worlds :)

[aznrsx1979]

Sorry about the confusion, I actually meant Ethernet over Powerline. Something like this..

The problem with that is.... I'm planning to setup a XBOX360 in my network, so that I can stream off of the file server. With the recent firmware upgrade with the D-Link DNS-323 to have compatibility with the 360, there's been alot of XBOX360 issues in the area. I might not want to pursue that route until the issue is solved.



I've got 2 desktops, a laptop and my PS3 hooked up to my NAS. There hasn't been any issues in streaming audio and video to my PS3 but I'm not sure about Xbox 360. Have you tried looking into other NAS devices?

[MegaHurtz]

Wireless G or 100Mb wired should be just fine for streaming anything, up to 1080p.

Look at it this way, take a 1080p movie, which say on average is 8GB. Figure that it's 2 hours long, so 7200 seconds. That's a bit over 1MB/sec to stream it over the network. Even if my figures are conservative, I don't think you'd even be going over 1.5MB/s to stream 1080p. That might be a bit of strain on an 802.11g network, but it should still work just fine. Doing it over copper at 100MB will be no problem whatsoever. 720p files are about half the size, which is even easier on a network.

[willystyle]

Could be interesting for experimenting with... could also be frustrating. All that stuff is really only relevant once you start using the machine as a domain controller. Unless you want your other machines fully reliant on it, I wouldn't suggest it for a simple home file server.

Using Win2K will also let you build your server on a lot less powerful machine, since it uses significantly less resources than XP/W2K3S. If you want to play with AD and other server features, find a copy of Win2K Server and get the best of both worlds :)
Thanks for that suggestion. I'll look into it.

I've got 2 desktops, a laptop and my PS3 hooked up to my NAS. There hasn't been any issues in streaming audio and video to my PS3 but I'm not sure about Xbox 360. Have you tried looking into other NAS devices?
Yes I have, but most other NAS devices are over $200, which is out of my price range. At that price, I might as well use my spare PC.

Wireless G or 100Mb wired should be just fine for streaming anything, up to 1080p.

Look at it this way, take a 1080p movie, which say on average is 8GB. Figure that it's 2 hours long, so 7200 seconds. That's a bit over 1MB/sec to stream it over the network. Even if my figures are conservative, I don't think you'd even be going over 1.5MB/s to stream 1080p. That might be a bit of strain on an 802.11g network, but it should still work just fine. Doing it over copper at 100MB will be no problem whatsoever. 720p files are about half the size, which is even easier on a network.
Well, it seems like you're having no problems streaming 1080p content over Wireless "G". Mind taking a look at my other PC technical issue? I'm getting sluggish speeds streaming a regular divx file.

http://www.revscene.net/forums/showthread.php?t=561814

[InvisibleSoul]

My dual-bay NAS enclosure cost me less than $100, and I stuffed two 1TB drives in it running RAID1.

[lilaznviper]

where u get that NAS enclosure for that price!?!?!

[pankrationisfun]

where u get that NAS enclosure for that price!?!?!

I second that! model number of the unit and place of purchase!

[Soundy]

http://a-power.com/product-1774-612-1

[InvisibleSoul]

http://a-power.com/product-1774-612-1
IDE? LoL, eww.

I got this one:
http://www.bestdirect.ca/products/146958/Mediasonic/HUR1_SU2LA/

Dual bay, SATA, RAID1 (that actually works, apparently, unlike some other units that advertise RAID1 but can't rebuild it if one disk dies!)

Got it through NCIX pricematch.

Running just fine for about half year now with 2 x 1TB drives.

[willystyle]

Alright so I'm gonna go with my old Tower that's kicking around for the File Server cause I want to use it as a File Server/Media Centre now.

My objective is to be able to stream/record 1080P or less quality content to/from my LCD TV via. Notebook/Shaw HD/PS3. I plan to do this with the following gears. A 1080P LCD TV, file server/media centre, notebook, PS3, Shaw HD Box, and possibly a TiVo (If I cannot record programs onto the File Server directly from the TV).

What's the best way to achieve this using the following gear?
I looked into getting a Shaw HD PVR, but the problem with that is, it lacks HD upgradeability. Is it possible to record HD content from my TV to my file server? How can I do this?

[.Renn.Sport]

i dont think u can capture HD signal from Shaw HD box in a Media Center machine.

[willystyle]

i dont think u can capture HD signal from Shaw HD box in a Media Center machine.
Yeah, I just read about that cause the data are encrypted and it only works within the Shaw box.

Fuckin gay.

and I believe TiVoHD doesn't work in Canada, so I can't go with that solution.

Their PVR sucks ass. 30 hours of HD capacity without upgradeability sucks.

Sorry for venting..

Are there any other ways to capture HD content off of Shaw HD without using their PVR?

[Soundy]

You'd need something on the computer that can record an HD signal, from component or HDMI input. Pretty sure they exist, but I couldn't point to anything in particular for you.

[willystyle]

You'd need something on the computer that can record an HD signal, from component or HDMI input. Pretty sure they exist, but I couldn't point to anything in particular for you.
So far, I've only been able to find HDTV capture cards that can record only from ATSC, none that can capture from a HDTV STB.

and even if I can find one..

It might not even work for Shaw HD as the signals are encrypted, unless someone can prove me otherwise.

[.Renn.Sport]

there are HDMI capture cards, they are close to a grand each and there is no consumer software to act as a PVR.

there were ways to use firewire to capture HD broadcast, but the amount of hacking involve is not even funny.

[Soundy]

So far, I've only been able to find HDTV capture cards that can record only from ATSC, none that can capture from a HDTV STB.

and even if I can find one..

It might not even work for Shaw HD as the signals are encrypted, unless someone can prove me otherwise.

That's why you'd need one that can record from the plain ol' analog component signal out of the digital box. Lot harder to encrypt that :)

Actually, my Hauppauge HVR-1600 can record unencrypted QAM signals from digital cable... unfortunately all of Shaw's HD channels are encrypted. The card can tune the channels, but they just display black.

[syee]

Too bad they haven't picked up on CableCard up here yet. I'm sure it's just a matter of time. When they do, you can pick up one of these (http://www.engadget.com/2007/05/21/installing-a-vista-cablecard-media-center-pc-part-1-fiasco/) to record cable TV

[willystyle]

That's why you'd need one that can record from the plain ol' analog component signal out of the digital box. Lot harder to encrypt that :)

Actually, my Hauppauge HVR-1600 can record unencrypted QAM signals from digital cable... unfortunately all of Shaw's HD channels are encrypted. The card can tune the channels, but they just display black.
Wouldn't it NOT be HD if it's an analog signal?

EDIT: Nevermind

Where can I find a card that can record from an analog component signal?

[Soundy]

http://www.videoguys.com/vidcap.htm

[.Renn.Sport]

capture cards are not supported by media center, so there is no way to setup recording using media center

[Soundy]

Sure they are... it's just limited to certain ones. There's was an "MCE" version available of the Hauppauge WinTV-PVR card I put in my wife's computer.

[hkd]

you should get "windows home server"

alot less frustrating and easy to use. also a hp home server comp is around $400 last time i checked at bb

[willystyle]

Sure they are... it's just limited to certain ones. There's was an "MCE" version available of the Hauppauge WinTV-PVR card I put in my wife's computer.
That site is freakin confusing. Pick a good one for me Soundy, preferably <$100.. lol

[.Renn.Sport]

Sure they are... it's just limited to certain ones. There's was an "MCE" version available of the Hauppauge WinTV-PVR card I put in my wife's computer.

TV tuner card with s-video/composite input and a dedicated video capturing card are 2 different things

[Soundy]

TV tuner card with s-video/composite input and a dedicated video capturing card are 2 different things

Sure they are, but you didn't differentiate before :D

[willystyle]

http://ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=21719&vpn=DNS-323&manufacture=D-Link

Does this have a pre-installed O/S? or can I install my own? Such as Ubuntu.

I'm thinking of running Ubuntu Server off of it.

[Manic!]

http://ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=21719&vpn=DNS-323&manufacture=D-Link

Does this have a pre-installed O/S? or can I install my own? Such as Ubuntu.

I'm thinking of running Ubuntu Server off of it.

Thats not a computer.

[syee]

http://ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=21719&vpn=DNS-323&manufacture=D-Link

Does this have a pre-installed O/S? or can I install my own? Such as Ubuntu.

I'm thinking of running Ubuntu Server off of it.

Like Manic said, it's not a computer per se. It uses an embedded version of Linux written specifically for the dedicated chip inside the device. (i.e. it's a special Linux implementation written especially for the chip used in the NAS) If you Google hacking DNS-323 you can find a few different options out there. However, you won't be able to pick up a version of Ubuntu and load it on the NAS.

[Soundy]

^And you still wouldn't be able to do much with it. There's no video card, no USB host, no keyboard or mouse ports, no audio... it's just a drive controller and a network interface with some supporting firmware in between.