[gummo604]

Ok i got pulled over by a RCMP and he issued me a ticket for "unauthorized illumination of fog lamps" MVA regulation section 4.02 (1) for $81

now, my car is completely stock exterior-wise and so are the fog lights (factory fogs). He basically said it is against the law to have fogs on when its not foggy.

I pulled up the MVA reg.(below) and nothing says it is illegal to have fogs on.. unless you are running fogs without headlights when there are no dangerous weather conditions. Well, I had all my lights on with the fog so I don't see any offense on my part.

If any officers can clarify this that would be great. Thanks

Fog Lamps
4.11
(1) A motor vehicle may be equipped with 2 fog lamps, mounted on the front of the vehicle below the headlamps, that are capable of displaying only white or amber light.

(2) Each fog lamp must be
(a) mounted not more than 30 cm below the headlamps, and
(b) adjusted and aimed so that, at a distance of 8 m from the lamp, the centre of the beam is at least 10 cm below the height of the fog lamp.

(3) The fog lamp wiring and switch must permit simultaneous operation of the parking lamps, tail lamps, licence plate lamp and, if required, clearance lamps.

(4) The operator of a vehicle may use fog lamps instead of headlamps when atmospheric conditions make the use of headlamps disadvantageous.
[en. B.C. Reg. 476/98, s. 2.]

[Soundy]

Holy smokes, :gotsearch:

There's only been about 500 other threads about this in the last month...

(Well, okay, one or two, but still, not hard to find them...)

[smoothie.]

instead of got search, why not just post a response.

then say search next time?

[johny]

post up section 4.02, what the ticket is for. no point looking at 4.11. (no idea what it is, so I'm telling you to go looking.)

[alex.w *//]

wow it must be a really unlucky day for you...

i see so many ppl in the summer with fog lights on at night in 20 degrees clear sky weather

[Osaka]

instead of got search, why not just post a response.

then say search next time?

:werd:

[cococly]

=.=??

what's the color of your fog light? Techinally, it can only be White when it's not Foggy

[Splinter]

instead of got search, why not just post a response.

then say search next time?

Same reason you don't let a kid eat a cookie if you catch him stealing from the cookie jar.

[Soundy]

instead of got search, why not just post a response.

then say search next time?

Because if everyone did that every time, there'd be no point in saying "use search first".

There's a sticky at the top of the forum, you see...
PLEASE READ POLICE FORUM RULES BEFORE POSTING! (http://www.revscene.net/forums/please-read-police-t33412.html)

The FIRST TWO points in those rules are:
1. Respect the officers that come here, they are helping you out on their personal time.

2. (use search function) Don't swamp them with redundant questions, (use search function) check to see if your question has been answered in some other posts before (use search function)

But you already knew that, because you read the rules before posting, RIGHT?

[zulutango]

Just to lower the stress level a bit...here is the section used in the VT.

General lighting requirements
4.02 (1) A vehicle on a highway must only be equipped with and use lamps, reflectors or other illuminating devices authorized by this Division or authorized in writing by the director.

From my read, I can't see how this applies to having fog lights on or off?

If you had non-factory lights that did not meet standards, I could see how that section would apply...but there is nothing there that talks about light illumination...just about IF you could have them ON your car. Based entirely on what you have told us here, I can't see how this VT could result in a conviction? Other opinions???

[gummo604]

guys guys... ok i have done a search before posting and i have found results... its just that i haven't got 100% clarification from the search because some people are saying fogs are LEGAL in BC anytime as long as they meet standards... but then some people are saying fogs are ILLEGAL when its not foggy.

I want to know which is true in BC? According to the MVA regulation:

4.02 (1) A vehicle on a highway must only be equipped with and use lamps, reflectors or other illuminating devices authorized by this Division or authorized in writing by the director.

Ok, so only lights authorized by this Division is allowed... so what does the division say about fogs?

4.11 (1) A motor vehicle may be equipped with 2 fog lamps, mounted on the front of the vehicle below the headlamps, that are capable of displaying only white or amber light.

(2) Each fog lamp must be
(a) mounted not more than 30 cm below the headlamps, and
(b) adjusted and aimed so that, at a distance of 8 m from the lamp, the centre of the beam is at least 10 cm below the height of the fog lamp.

(3) The fog lamp wiring and switch must permit simultaneous operation of the parking lamps, tail lamps, licence plate lamp and, if required, clearance lamps.

(4) The operator of a vehicle may use fog lamps instead of headlamps when atmospheric conditions make the use of headlamps disadvantageous.
[en. B.C. Reg. 476/98, s. 2.]

I have done my research and as far as I know, I have done nothing wrong. My car is stock with factory fog lights. I signed the ticket because I presumed the RCMP officer knew what he was doing... I was confused like... "wth... ticket for fog light???" While i was waiting to get my ticket, at least 5 more cars passed by with fogs on and none of the other cops with him gave a crap, they just stood there chatting.

Also, there were 4 patrol cars and about 8 cops? They were pulling everyone over and checking... and it seems I was the last to get let go and the only one with a ticket. Seriously, shouldn't they be looking for real crimes?

I was just going to my mom's place to visit and have dinner... jeesus

Anyways, I was just wondering if anyone here knew the answer to whether fog lights are permitted in BC?? Because from my research, they are.... and I was just given a ticket for it :mad:

[Raver4Life]

the exact same thing happened to my buddy but he let him go. now he turns them off everytime he sees a cop

[gummo604]

Just to lower the stress level a bit...here is the section used in the VT.

General lighting requirements
4.02 (1) A vehicle on a highway must only be equipped with and use lamps, reflectors or other illuminating devices authorized by this Division or authorized in writing by the director.

From my read, I can't see how this applies to having fog lights on or off?

If you had non-factory lights that did not meet standards, I could see how that section would apply...but there is nothing there that talks about light illumination...just about IF you could have them ON your car. Based entirely on what you have told us here, I can't see how this VT could result in a conviction? Other opinions???

Exactly. My car has factory fog lights. I'm really stressing out right now because I think I just got ticketed for doing nothing wrong!

[skidmark]

Seriously, shouldn't they be looking for real crimes?

Seriously, they were. They just found you instead.

Fog lights are allowed to be used as DRL's, so I don't know how the officer got this idea. Time for a phonecall to them asking to withdraw, and if not, then to their boss.

[zulutango]

This problem come sup all the time because drivers use aftermarked, over-watted lights in their vehicles and call them "fog" lights, when they are not capable of providing any light form that would be of use in real fog. "Real" fog lights are yellow/orange and low power...NOT blinding white and high power. I spent 13 years driving in fog in Nfld and I have real life experience in fog. You need low power yellow light that will not refelct the fog. There were even times I drove with my headlights out and only parking lights on because even the normal stock factory seal beams on a CV or Impala, was too bright to be useful.

I used to stop cars with them on where there was no reason other than vanity, to have them on. Some are very bright and blinding. I hate being blinded because somebody thinks it's cool. I have FOG lights on my motorcycle and only operate them when the visibility makes them advantageous. Even then, if I'm behind somebody or approaching them, I will turn them off until I'm no longer annoying them. ' What it comes down to is if they are "fog" lights or "driving lights" . Driving lights can only be wired so they go on with high beams. You have the section above for fog lights. IF the lights are FACTORY FOG LIGHTS IN EVERY RESPECT AND FIT THE TRANSPORT CANADA REQUIREMENTS AND DESCRIPTION AS FOG LIGHTS, then I;m not aware of any requirement in BC that governs when they must NOT be operated. I stand to be corrected on this.

[MarkyMark]

Yeah I don't see a problem with factory fogs, it's when people think it's cool putting 6000k HID's in them, combined with their 8000k ricer HID headlights that end up ruining it.

[tonyvu]

whaatt that's retareded... i ride with my fogs on all the time and no cops ever pull me over; and my fogs are bright yellow... damn

[gummo604]

Okay, so I'm going to conclude that it is in fact COMPLETELY LEGAL to operate factory (non-modified) fog lights during any time of the day and in any weather condition in BC. I just would like this clarified for future reference.

Anyways, I'll call in and ask for my ticket to be canceled because this would be a waste of time to dispute if the ticket itself was incorrectly issued.

Thanks for all your inputs. I'll keep you guys posted on what happens.

[Soundy]

=.=??

what's the color of your fog light? Techinally, it can only be White when it's not Foggy

Incorrect.

Fog Lamps
4.11
(1) A motor vehicle may be equipped with 2 fog lamps, mounted on the front of the vehicle below the headlamps, that are capable of displaying only white or amber light.


There's nothing that stipulates they have to change color to match the conditions.

[greendb7]

Well I'm glad I didn't make a new post about this..
to the OP, were you driving down 96th right by Fraser when you got stopped?
cuz I was driving on 96th last Saturday and there was a roadblock there to check for any drinking and driving (they do it there every few weeks or so)
the cars in front of me were led through and I get pulled over and he asks me why he pulled me over
I said "to check for any alcohol comsumption?"
he said "yes and your foglights too, they're illegal you can only have foglights on if there is fog out"
at that point I thought to myself not to question that and just get him to STFU so I said "ok problem solved" and switched them off
he just stood there staring at me for like 3 seconds then let me go
so they are OEM, the yellow ones on my 1995 Integra
so judging by the responses, I guess most cops don't know what they're talking about when they say I can't have them on.

[zulutango]

General Duties Members are probably not that well-versed in the details of the MV Act & Regs. A "cheater' is issued for quick reference to the offenses and they can mislead the user to believe certain sections apply, when a closer read of the actual legislation will show that it does not. Traffic Members should be better informed but some junior Members can make the same mistake. As many members in the LMSD are junior in service, this could be the problem.

[Soundy]

^Put a link to the regs in your Blackberry/iPhone/geek-toy and pull it up on the spot if there's ever a problem :)

[Jobo]

*Sigh* I was just about to put foglights on my car too..

[Raid3n]

^why are you sighing? they are legal....

[gummo604]

well i called in and talked to the cop that issued me the ticket... turns out he's a staff sergeant for surrey RCMP

i told him about how the MVA does not mention about foglights being illegal for my case.. but he insisted that it is infact illegal. He says you are only allowed to have one pair of lights (headlamps) on while driving and those must be either white or amber.

Looks like the only thing left to do is to file for dispute.

[DavidYeh]

I had an officer ask me to turn off my fogs when I was pulled over during a Roadblock inspection as well. I had my 91 Integra with yellow piaa fogs.

Do they have to be lower than your headlights? because stock fogs on DAs are the same height...

[MarkyMark]

I had an officer ask me to turn off my fogs when I was pulled over during a Roadblock inspection as well. I had my 91 Integra with yellow piaa fogs.

Do they have to be lower than your headlights? because stock fogs on DAs are the same height...

If they aren't stock fogs you can't have them on. A lot of aftermarket fogs will say right on it "For off road use only"

[DavidYeh]

oh ya.. i guess i didnt account for that. They were in the stock headlight housing.. just used piaa bulbs.

[InvisibleSoul]

Police officers should seriously get reprimanded for giving out bogus tickets.

[MarkyMark]

I wonder what makes them think it's illegal, don't they get trained on what is, and what is not illegal? Are they confusing highbeams with fog lights? Seems weird that a lot of cops think something is illegal when it's not.

[rubenoff]

Our 2007 Ford focus has Daytime Runnning lamps operated in the low beam circuit at 60 % brillance the main lamps switch allow's on the first position the operation of tail lamps park lamps and the fog lamps can be switched on alone to meet BC M.V. regulations either fog lamps in adverse weather and low beam headlamps at slower speeds . works good until you start the engine then the D.R.L.starts automatically and cannot be switched off, even if the driver wants to try and peer under the fog without the main lamps that are mounted higher on the vehicle

[fsy82]

Our 2007 Ford focus has Daytime Runnning lamps operated in the low beam circuit at 60 % brillance the main lamps switch allow's on the first position the operation of tail lamps park lamps and the fog lamps can be switched on alone to meet BC M.V. regulations either fog lamps in adverse weather and low beam headlamps at slower speeds . works good until you start the engine then the D.R.L.starts automatically and cannot be switched off, even if the driver wants to try and peer under the fog without the main lamps that are mounted higher on the vehicle

sorry but i had to point out that was a really really long first sentence..lol

[rubenoff]

why would fog lamps be used when there is no fog on the highway system, when the weather is clear having any additional light displayed other than the headlamps, is more of a look at me and lowering the respect level for others who share the roadway, these comments are from a 59 year accident free vehicle operator, we need and will appreciate the use of fog lamps when the weather is really foggy or rainy and the seeing distance is seriously lowered to the point that road lighting from a lower level source is needed to let the driver better peer under the fog have a really nice day

[rubenoff]

as a licensed B.C mechanic and Vehicle inspector when a vehicle is referred for mechanical inspection from a road side citation the first thing,s to be inspected are the mounting height, alignment, Bulb or lamps design, and the wiring hookup,can the fog lamps be operated with the tail lamps and park lamps, is there a facility so the fog lamps can be operated by a separate switch and not hard wired to low or high beam, after checking the M.V. inspection manual requirement the vehicle is given back to the owner operator, and it is their responsibility to meet road and weather conditions, and accident prevention regulations have a great day

see u tube link below with pictures and comments.s from canada

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfYTXh7_qkA&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

[kwy]

Dude..use periods. Please.

[SumAznGuy]

Dude..use periods. Please.

Dudes been driving for 59 years. That makes him possibly older and more senile than MG1. He's probably never heard of periods.
He also thinks his DRL runs at 60% on the low beam on his Focus. :rukidding:

[Great68]

The factory "Fog" lights on my Mazda will only turn on when the low beam headlamps are on. It is impossible to turn off the headlamps while keeping the "fog" lights illuminated.

Which kind of defeats the purpose of fog lamps, doesn't it?

[sebberry]

Which kind of defeats the purpose of fog lamps,
doesn't it?

It does. My car is wired up the same way.

While the MVA permits the use of fog lamps in place of low-beam headlights in adverse weather conditions, not all cars are wired up to operate this way.

[sebberry]

He also thinks his DRL runs at 60% on the low beam on his Focus. :rukidding:

I'm not sure how it works on whatever year/model of Focus he has, but that's how they work on my car too.

[SumAznGuy]

I'm not sure how it works on whatever year/model of Focus he has, but that's how they work on my car too.

What year and model car do you have?

Most cars use high beam at the lower percent.
9003, 9004, 9006 bulbs.

[rubenoff]

Having D.R.L. on High Beam is not the best operation because the beam is higher focused
and the low beam is a lower focused beam and offers better respect for the eyes of the oncoming motorist.s .
Our Fleetwood R.V. has the same system and the D.R.L. operates in the low beam at 60% lower brillance these kits have been available starting in the 1980 era. we installed aprox 6000 across B.C. in Highways fleet operations and that standard eventuallly became the National standard supplied in many vehicles across canada and the U.S.A.
cheers have a nice day.

[sebberry]

What year and model car do you have?

Most cars use high beam at the lower percent.
9003, 9004, 9006 bulbs.

2005 Subaru. Uses H7 bulbs for the low beams, operated at reduced power for the DRLs.

[Great68]

Mazda 3's use the high beam bulb, at lower output through Pulse Width Modulation

[rubenoff]

I'm not sure how it works on whatever year/model of Focus he has, but that's how they work on my car too.

from the B.C Regulations.



4.11 (1) A motor vehicle may be equipped with 2 fog lamps, mounted on the front of the vehicle below the headlamps, that are capable of displaying only white or amber light.

(2) Each fog lamp must be
(a) mounted not more than 30 cm below the headlamps, and
(b) adjusted and aimed so that, at a distance of 8 m from the lamp, the centre of the beam is at least 10 cm below the height of the fog lamp.
(3) The fog lamp wiring and switch must permit simultaneous operation of the parking lamps, tail lamps, licence plate lamp and, if required, clearance lamps.
(4) The operator of a vehicle may use fog lamps instead of headlamps when atmospheric conditions make the use of headlamps disadvantageous.

[nsx042003]

what the hell? might as well give everyone in the city a ticket because that's how fogs are wired from the factory....

[G-spec]

Things are getting a bit complicated with all these regulations being posted, let'ssimplify it.. if your car comes from the factory like that it obviously meets Canadian standards for legal road use, so it's fully legal, it's just that simple no matter what interpretation a certain cop may have.
I remember when the Lexus IS first came out, cops were giving out tickets like hotcakes for the clear style taillights since that was one of the first if not the first car to come with clear tails OEM.

You're gonna have to waste your day going to dispute it in court, you should win it without any problems....
UNLESS the officer shows up and the judge feels almost required to side with the officer in order not to make him look stupid in front of all the people in the courtroom.... that's exactly what happened to me, it's not fun

[SumAznGuy]

I remember when the Lexus IS first came out, cops were giving out tickets like hotcakes for the clear style taillights since that was one of the first if not the first car to come with clear tails OEM.

Same thing in 2000 and 2001 with the S2000 and their projector headlights. Some cops were handing out tickets to drivers for having "blue" headlights.

[rubenoff]

the B.C. and canadian Vehicle inspection programme and the Motor Vehicle act regulations were set in place to provide safety standards that were overlooked at the factory and in many cases create recalls for units that were fitted for the purposes of increased sales and did not meet the safety of others who use the road system. and People who drive around with fog lamps lit on clear days or clear nights, may find that their vehicle will have to pass motor vehicle inspection rules, and have to correct correct the fault and try to get their money back from the builder,
we have experienced vehicles being sent for addition of tail lamps and park lamps operation with fog lamps that were not fitted properly and caught by the police in road side inspection and corrected throught the inspection facility have a nice week end

[wing_woo]

In terms of fog lights, I really really hate those people who leave their rear foglight on all the time. It is very annoying cause it's quite bright and you keep thinking they have their brake light on.

[cruz-in]

Dudes been driving for 59 years. That makes him possibly older and more senile than MG1. He's probably never heard of periods.
He also thinks his DRL runs at 60% on the low beam on his Focus. :rukidding:

i know 2008 toyota corolla's DRLs work the same way.

thats why when people hid kits on to them, they also need to kill drls. otherwise, the ballasts wont fire.

[sebberry]

what the hell? might as well give everyone in the city a ticket because that's how fogs are wired from the factory....


from the B.C Regulations.



4.11 (1) A motor vehicle may be equipped with 2 fog lamps, mounted on the front of the vehicle below the headlamps, that are capable of displaying only white or amber light.

(2) Each fog lamp must be
(a) mounted not more than 30 cm below the headlamps, and
(b) adjusted and aimed so that, at a distance of 8 m from the lamp, the centre of the beam is at least 10 cm below the height of the fog lamp.
(3) The fog lamp wiring and switch must permit simultaneous operation of the parking lamps, tail lamps, licence plate lamp and, if required, clearance lamps.
(4) The operator of a vehicle may use fog lamps instead of headlamps when atmospheric conditions make the use of headlamps disadvantageous.


Ok, let's look at the important bits.

There's nothing illegal about the way most cars are wired from the factory. The regulations require the car to be wired such that when the fog lights are illuminated, the tail lamps, corner markers, licence plate lamps, etc.. must be on.

The regulations don't require the low-beams to be off when the fog lights are in use - the low beams can be on at any time (even though in practical use, it would be better if car makers didn't wire them up this way).

The regulations do not restrict the use of fog lamps to adverse weather conditions. This means you can have your fog lights on at any time of day or night regardless of the weather. However - they can only be used in place of your low beam headlamps if the weather conditions make the use of low beam headlights disadvantageous.

[rubenoff]

Thanks we need to get the Regulations and Police on their toes to better address highways safety issues, here is a letter we wrote to our premier to try and get the regulations updated



Ms. Christy Clarke Premier of B.C Feb 09 2012


as a retired Licensed B.C. M.V. inspector we ask your assistance in Having a order in council put in place update to the current Motor Vehicle act regulation # 4.11 controlling the installation and use of fog lamps on vehicles .


Reason for the request for update is related to improving highway safety in B.C
the regulations currently do not allow or require the Police to issue citations to people who switch on their vehicle fog lamps and never shut them off, this cause a problem in
the night time when the weather is clear and there are no fog or atmospheric conditions that requires the use of fog lamps and using the fog lamps adds 100% more light for the eyes,s of the approaching motorist, Because the Low beam headlamps are also lit


Please have the following words added to section 4.11.4 which will read as an addition
(A) operators of vehicles may not use fog lamps with low beam beam headlamps during clear weather at night time due to the added light from fog lamps shining into the eyes of oncoming motorists, and or shining into the rear view mirrors or vehicles being followed
Suggested citation fog ignoring the 4.11.4 (A) regulation update $ 75.00


in the U.K and Australia this regulation has been in place for many years

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[rubenoff]

Ms.Dianna Craig President and C.E.O .Ford Motor Company

Dear Madam.
My we please have your consideration and cooperation in sorting out the Minor glitch in the Lighting system on the 2007 ford focus serial #1FAFP36N57W115166
we love the unit however in the assembly of the electrical system there seem's a small glitch exist's in the the operation of the fog lamps and DaytimeRunning lamp operations ie.

The main light switch on the first position allows the parking light.s, Tail lamps and marker lamps to operate,and in that light switch position the fog lamps switch can be switched to fog lamps on, and that allows us to meet the B.C.Motor Vehicle act regulations 4.11. 3 and 4.11.4 so we could choose to have fog lamps alone with park tail and side marker lamps. The reason we want this use of fog lamps alone is to help shine light from the low mounted fog lamps under the fog or mist conditions, and to prevent the light from the higher mounted main lamps from reflecting back from the water droplets in the fog condition ( the Factory plan seemed to be in place up to this point)

However on the 2007 Ford Focus when the engine is started the daytime running lamps come on and we cannot shut them off, to allow us to use the lower fog lamps alone when the weather is foggy, snowy or sleet raining condition What we are asking for is a Ford approved Drawing to allow a modification to the O.E.M installation where the Daytime running lamp power supply is interrupted through a Normally closed relay and where there trigger signal for the relay will come from the fog lamp power supply .

So that anytime the fog lamps are used the D.R.L .signal will be interrupted and extinguish the D.R.L. to the Low beam of the front lights as far as safety is concerned we will still have the fog lamps and park lamps side markers and tail,lamps lit and still meet M.V regulations

and any time we switch back to fog lamps off the circuit will revert to normal operations, all D.R.L and other functions of the lighting system will operate as designed and we will still be able to use low beam with the fog lamps added if desired when the weather condition reverts to clear, or to shut off the fog lamps until they are required again to meet road and weather condition,s

Having this minor modification on factory supplied units will allow the use of fog lamps alone with tail lamps marker lamps and park lamps or

allow the use of low beam and fog lamps on low beam with park lamps tail lamps marker lamps and normal D.R.L. operations so its a win win situation and the vehicle would better meet Vehicle regulation and customer needs where the operator wants to exercise their choice for better lighting control in foggy conditions

all other lighting system functions are well accepted on the unit These comment are coming from a retired Vehicle inspector, and licensed mechanic

thanks you in advance for the opportunity to submit suggestions for product improvements we will pay
the installation costs however would like the approved drawing and part number for the relay required to complete the modification

[Great68]

Now I'm going to write my own letter to the premier to not to listen to you.

[jlenko]

Hmm... Christy Clark gonna worry about fog lights.. or the teachers problem.

Writing letters like that... Wow, what a waste of time!

[zulutango]

Nolt to be confrontational or anything, but having someone proofread your letters for grammar, spelling, punctuation etc before sending them would give you more credibility. It detracts from the message you are attempting to convey.

BTW, as far as blinding other drivers goes...the existing regulations on fog lights already says that..

(b) adjusted and aimed so that, at a distance of 8 m from the lamp, the centre of the beam is at least 10 cm below the height of the fog lamp.

[rubenoff]

duplicate sorry

[rubenoff]

Nolt to be confrontational or anything, but having someone proofread your letters for grammar, spelling, punctuation etc before sending them would give you more credibility. It detracts from the message you are attempting to convey.

BTW, as far as blinding other drivers goes...the existing regulations on fog lights already says that..

(b) adjusted and aimed so that, at a distance of 8 m from the lamp, the centre of the beam is at least 10 cm below the height of the fog lamp.

Thank you ,Yes there are many time.s throughout the life of a vehicle that the aiming of headlamps and or fog lamps are a road safety priority, some examples are listed below


(1) when the unit is new fresh from the factory
(2) any time weight has been added to the vehicle ie. Canopy. winch, tool box, fuel tank, welder
or a deck that is used for carrying weight
(3) when the unit is used for towing trailers,
(4) anytime repairs are completed to the suspension of vehicle ( new springs etc. accident's)
(5) when the unit ages and there is settlement of the suspension ( 3-5 years)
(6) operator complaint or complaint from the public

in our current M.V operations and policing system in B.C and Canada. there is a lack of a repeat requirement for mechanical inspection as in other countries

How many vehicles are referred by police authority to be taken in to. M.V. inspection station's for headlamp or fog lamp alignments??

why are there no road side inspections of the headlamp and fog lamp alignments ???

saying there is a requirement and ensuring the requirement is met are two seperate issue's as a retired fleet manager we trained mechanics in the use of headlamp alignment tools on Cars, truck's graders snow plow trucks and found in many cases new vehicles from the factory were supplied without the proper alignment adjustments Thanks for the reminder that many times road safety item's may go undetected

Have a nice week

[GoneGuru]

Nolt to be confrontational or anything, but having someone proofread your letters for grammar, spelling, punctuation etc before sending them would give you more credibility. It detracts from the message you are attempting to convey.

BTW, as far as blinding other drivers goes...the existing regulations on fog lights already says that..

(b) adjusted and aimed so that, at a distance of 8 m from the lamp, the centre of the beam is at least 10 cm below the height of the fog lamp.


:lawl:

[sebberry]

why are there no road side inspections of the headlamp and fog lamp alignments ???


Because we don't need to live in a police state.

Sorry sir, your lights are out of alignment
I know, I'm carrying cement and dirt for the new garden I'm building
Doesn't matter, your lights are pointing too high, here's your VI order, get it fixed.


It's pretty easy to spot illegal lights without the need for mandatory roadside inspections.

[zulutango]

BC used to have mandatory annual vehicle inspections, like most other Proivinces in Canada, but they droipped them a good few years back. In New Zealand, for instance, they require inspections every 6 months, not annually. Right now the only way an unsafe and/or illegally modded vehicle will be required to comform with the BC laws, is if the driver gets caught on the highway with it.

[rubenoff]

BC used to have mandatory annual vehicle inspections, like most other Proivinces in Canada, but they droipped them a good few years back. In New Zealand, for instance, they require inspections every 6 months, not annually. Right now the only way an unsafe and/or illegally modded vehicle will be required to comform with the BC laws, is if the driver gets caught on the highway with it.

Thanks ! and its because of the lack of mandatory iinspections that the importance of road side inspections is of a safety priority, the road side inspections in the rogers pass reveal many vehicle faults and reap drugs, and other items that would normally go undetected, people that use drugs and drink and drive usually have a lower respect level for the vehicle being operated, we have seen fewer overloaded pickups with single tires, with heavy campers now on the roads the trend is to use larger sized trucks with dual tires with proper capacity to handle the load, our R.V. has duals and air bags and there is no problem with the headlamp alignment, Its because of road side inspections that there was a change in trucks with campers , Thanks Roadside inspection staff Much appreciated, watch for the guy with his lights pointed at the moon at night it will be the guy with a load of gravel in a Mini truck squirming from side to side because the tire,s are half flat and an accident waiting to happen

[rubenoff]

WE have a retired R.C.M.P. who has a goal to improve highway safety, he wants a call in tip line that has an input onto the desk of the M.V. supt. where unsafe driving is reported and the report contains names of person and witness making the report, with dates location licence numbers time etc, and the Supt would call the owner and ask for cooperation in better driving otherwise call the witness and do court action to correct bad driving or poor attitude towards highway safety we like the idea drivers who have poor driving habits normally offend more than one driver on the highways, and need our support to improve Have a nice day

[rubenoff]

BC used to have mandatory annual vehicle inspections, like most other Proivinces in Canada, but they droipped them a good few years back. In New Zealand, for instance, they require inspections every 6 months, not annually. Right now the only way an unsafe and/or illegally modded vehicle will be required to comform with the BC laws, is if the driver gets caught on the highway with it.

Some consideration's for Provincial vehicle inspections should be

all vehicle over 5 years of age
all vehicles older than 5 years

Once inspected the repeat inspection could be considered at every 2-3 years

Its the first inspection that will tale all the Krap off the road system
because many of the older vehicles have underlying rust problems or will have a total repair bill that will have owners thinking this is the time to invest in a newer vehicles, Rather then throwing big Bucks into an older vehicle, we have seen many vehicles that have hugh holes in the bodies, Broken windshields bald tires and are still operating on the road systems, I.C.B.C should get interested in the inspection programme we know its not politically acceptable but death any injury accidents are expensive, having the inspections too often would be of no use other than a money grab

[sebberry]

According to the 2007 ICBC collision statistics, vehicle condition was a factor in less than 2% of injury and fatal collisions and it's been that way for several years prior.

Mandatory inspections would increase the burden on the taxpayers to fund the system and on drivers to have inspections performed in addition to their regular servicing which is just as likely to catch a defect as the inspection would. Meanwhile we have patients dying in the hallways of overcrowded hospitals...

If you feel safer on the roads in a province or state where inspections are mandatory, then I suggest you move to where you're more comfortable. I like living where we have a little less regulation and a little less government meddling and somehow I seem to get by just fine. Please don't bring your security blanket with you if it's going to cover me too. I'm fine without it.

[rubenoff]

According to the 2007 ICBC collision statistics, vehicle condition was a factor in less than 2% of injury and fatal collisions and it's been that way for several years prior.

Mandatory inspections would increase the burden on the taxpayers to fund the system and on drivers to have inspections performed in addition to their regular servicing which is just as likely to catch a defect as the inspection would. Meanwhile we have patients dying in the hallways of overcrowded hospitals...

If you feel safer on the roads in a province or state where inspections are mandatory, then I suggest you move to where you're more comfortable. I like living where we have a little less regulation and a little less government meddling and somehow I seem to get by just fine. Please don't bring your security blanket with you if it's going to cover me too. I'm fine without it.

The alternate to mandatory inspections are to give the police authority to visit Malls and parking areas where the Krappy vehicles are parked and have them towed and taken into inspection facilities and the required repair attended to so rusted out vehicle are taken off the streets and highways before they do cause accident because the conditions are very easy to spot
If the fenders and under the door areas are rotted out what condition do you think the brake lines and steering parts are in??

Have a nice weekend

[sebberry]

That'll work well.

Er.. where's my car gone? Sorry ma'am, we noticed some spots of rust on your door, we towed it to an inspection facility.

Or... Hello, my name is officer ____, we're conducting random safety inspections. This will only take 20 minutes, we don't care if you'll be late for work or your Dr appt...


Again, so few collisions are caused by defective vehicles it's simply not worth it to spend the time and money on random VI's.


How about instead of parking 6 IRSU cars at the side of the road on the last day of the month running speed traps, they have the officers drive around looking for defective vehicles? It would spread the resources out over a wider area and catch more moving violations as well.

[rubenoff]

That'll work well.

Er.. where's my car gone? Sorry ma'am, we noticed some spots of rust on your door, we towed it to an inspection facility.

Or... Hello, my name is officer ____, we're conducting random safety inspections. This will only take 20 minutes, we don't care if you'll be late for work or your Dr appt...


Again, so few collisions are caused by defective vehicles it's simply not worth it to spend the time and money on random VI's.


How about instead of parking 6 IRSU cars at the side of the road on the last day of the month running speed traps, they have the officers drive around looking for defective vehicles? It would spread the resources out over a wider area and catch more moving violations as well.


Two cases near our home city (1) a father with no mechanical experience buys a $ 350.00 backyard fixer upper for his Daughter to drive and on her first trip is stopped in a road inspection and the car is pulled off the road because of serious mechanical safety problems. The father complains bitterly in the news media about the unfair treatment by the Police

BUT Guess what?? I.C.B.C. issued the licence for a 15 year old vehicle with faults to be operated on Public highways ?????

Case # 2 a low contractor purchases a 15 year old crew cab at an auction
and issues the unit to haul crew members to and from work, a concerned driver asked for a second opinion and after the second opinion The M.V. Branch did an inspection and the floor of the crew cab was rotted out so that the floor mat was the only thing holding the operators feet from falling through the floor of the vehicle the license plates were removed for the vehicle and the vehicle grounded

BUT Guess what ?
I.C.B.C issued the license decal for the unit without no regard for the condition of the vehicle that was to transport people ????

cheers is this the 2 % being quoted, I.C.B.C really need to address the need of prior mechanical inspections before issuing decals to problem older vehicles, because this is automatic approval to allow junk into the highway systems hoping the police may or may not catch the unit, in one case above thankfully they did

Cheers and thank you

[Speed2K]

rubenoff, I don't know why you have so much beef with someone having both fogs & low beams on; but personally I, and I'm sure many fellow rs members, don't have a problem with it. In this case you are probably the 1%. I do not find vehicles with factory fogs and low beams on at the same time blinding. What most of us have a problem with is people installing HID lights into non-projector housing and blinding us with that light. I also have a problem with people that run their high-beams constantly.

[zulutango]

[If you feel safer on the roads in a province or state where inspections are mandatory, then I suggest you move to where you're more comfortable.

I used to live in NZ and my next door neighbour drove his 1931 Model A Ford as a daily driver, guy down the street drove a 1938 Morris 8. The twice per year inspections were very thorough and you had to have a vehicle that really was 100% mechanically. It was very common to see 30-40 yr old vehicles being used as normal transportation.

[sebberry]

And while they're mechanically sound and passing two inspections per year, they lack modern safety innovations and other benefits of newer vehicles.

I keep my car well maintained and I don't need the hassle of and expense of inspections.

[rubenoff]

We as well keep our vehicles maintained the average cost per vehicle varies with the replacement of tires, batteries, and parts that wear out Mostly when the vehicle is relatively new, its oil changes and tire and brake inspections as called for in the owners manual The mandatory vehicle inspection is really not for folks that keep their unit properly maintained and maintenance is like insurance ie.change the fuel filter for $ 20.00 and save the fuel pump replacement cost of $ 500.00 In fleet operations the cost saving of a P.M. programme reaps huge saving for the owner, and the inspection cost is quite low its what is revealed in the inspection that cost money, and its pay me now a little money now or pay me later in huge costs, and there is little argument that a stitch in time saves 9, Most of the Krappy rusty vehicles on the highways and being operated because people want to see what they can get away with and use the argument repairs are too expensive, yes many older vehicles can be operated on the highways if the owners will keep the required repairs attended to Cheers have a nice weekend

[zulutango]

[QUOTE=sebberry;7825436]And while they're mechanically sound and passing two inspections per year, they lack modern safety innovations and other benefits of newer vehicles.

Yep....only air bag in a Model A is the passenger mouthing off next to you. :whistle:

[MindBomber]

The cost of semi-annual or even annual inspections would exceed the cost maintenance itself by a factor for my 10 year old Honda, and I maintain it to a nearly neurotic standard. Aggressively V.I. visibly defective or extremely poor condition vehicles, if they're on the road an officer should be able to spot them, I'm certainly able to.

I don't understand how anyone could care so much about fog lights. With all the wrong that happens in the world, and even more relevant, locally, this is a very strange issue for a person to concern yourself with.

Nolt to be confrontational or anything, but having someone proofread your letters for grammar, spelling, punctuation etc before sending them would give you more credibility. It detracts from the message you are attempting to convey.

BTW, as far as blinding other drivers goes...the existing regulations on fog lights already says that..

(b) adjusted and aimed so that, at a distance of 8 m from the lamp, the centre of the beam is at least 10 cm below the height of the fog lamp.

That made me laugh, but I agree with Zulu's point completely. I have a difficult time not only reading, but taking anything Rubenoff writes seriously, given the complete lack of even basic grammar or apparent proof reading.

[rubenoff]

[QUOTE=sebberry;7825436]And while they're mechanically sound and passing two inspections per year, they lack modern safety innovations and other benefits of newer vehicles.

Yep....only air bag in a Model A is the passenger mouthing off next to you. :whistle:

some real nice vehicle's that are issued licence decals from I.C.B.C.
why are owners not required to supply photos of older units before licence decals are handed out like candy?? see u tube link below

20120310-202701.AVI why are rusty vehicles on Highways in B.C.?? - YouTube

[MindBomber]

If those are B.C. vehicles, you've provided no evidence to prove it, and furthermore, with about 400k kilometers of driving experience in the province, I've never seen a vehicle that bad.

Your grammar is just as terrible in the videos as it is in your posts.

[zulutango]

[quote=zulutango;7825520]

some real nice vehicle's that are issued licence decals from I.C.B.C.
why are owners not required to supply photos of older units before licence decals are handed out like candy?? see u tube link below

20120310-202701.AVI why are rusty vehicles on Highways in B.C.?? - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-eJ2CKcSDw&context=C4b698aeADvjVQa1PpcFM1QuFnsOD7znkg-SdbyXnoNxiG2Y1TFOU=)

The problem is that Autoplan Insurance brokers issue the paperwork, not ICBC themselves. Unless you inspect every car before you issue the registration, there is no way to check to see that they are mechanically compliant. An insurance cleck is not qualified to see if your alignment is correct or that you have illegally jacked/lowered your vehicle without proper engineering techniques being used...and i would not want them doing that. I have run across pocket bikes that have been given regsitration and clerks that told drivers it was OK to put front licence plates on their dashes, among other things. They couldn't even handle those things and are not qualified and should not be doing that kind of mechanical work. A mandatory mechanical inspection by a qualified mechanic would solve the problems.

[SumAznGuy]

mechanical inspection by a qualified mechanic would solve the problems.

And yet wasn't there a thing on the news a while back where licensed vehicle inspectors were passing vehicles that shouldn't be on the road.
Vehicles like the Dodge van that flipped over on the highway. Dodge van that was full of farm workers where the rear seats were pulled and fitted with wooden bench seats and no seat belts to fit more people in the vehicle than it was designed for.

[zulutango]

And yet wasn't there a thing on the news a while back where licensed vehicle inspectors were passing vehicles that shouldn't be on the road.
Vehicles like the Dodge van that flipped over on the highway. Dodge van that was full of farm workers where the rear seats were pulled and fitted with wooden bench seats and no seat belts to fit more people in the vehicle than it was designed for.

Let me re-phrase my statement... qualified and uncorrupt inspectors.

[sebberry]

This just gets better and better.

Let's funnel every 5 year old and older car in the province through inspection shops. Law abiding folks like myself would shell out hundreds of dollars that I would normally put into maintenance while those who are "in the know" pay off corrupt inspectors for an inspection decal and continue on their way.


As for all those rusty vehicles, rubenoff, we don't need mandatory inspections to catch them. A simple traffic stop and VI would take care of that just fine.

[rubenoff]

This just gets better and better.

Let's funnel every 5 year old and older car in the province through inspection shops. Law abiding folks like myself would shell out hundreds of dollars that I would normally put into maintenance while those who are "in the know" pay off corrupt inspectors for an inspection decal and continue on their way.


As for all those rusty vehicles, rubenoff, we don't need mandatory inspections to catch them. A simple traffic stop and VI would take care of that just fine.

Really good point much appreciated, Drivers 80 years of age need to prove medical proof via their doctor that they are O.K to drive, good move from an accident prevention point of view, that aprox. 4/5 th. of their life at what point would we give vehicles the same test of basic condition 20 years? 30 years? 40 years? the effect of body rust and under vehicle rusting of brake lines, fuel lines, power steering lines, and general underneath body condition
we do not agree with all vehicles the discussion is leading towards the age of
maintaining safe road worthiness and the time to compact the unit for recycling Have a nice weekend

[rubenoff]

here is the link to the Private Vehicle Inspection Programme P.V.I.P. available at I.C.B.C
inspection approved garages the inspection looks for vehicle integrity, However where
there is a concern for downtime prevention, Its good to do the ourselves if we have the abliity, we always suggest to folks to get a mechanic reccomended by friends or family
and have them perform the work up to the owners manual reccomendations and use the
P.V.I.P. programme as a guideline in unit's useful age analisis with overall cost as a factor v/s buying a newer vehicle

http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/CVSE/vehicle_inspections/PDF/MV3199.pdf

our Last vehicle a 1988 Dodge aries station wagon lasted until 2005 and on the last inspection and repair showed serious rusting of the fuel tank and carrier straps and the frame area over the rear suspension area and around the front strut mounting area and the mechanic who is an inspector suggested taking the unit out of service

The basis differences between the inspection and the Preventative maintenance requirement when married together gives an overall view a better look at the unit and if completed help's to eliminates undesirable downtime along the road Cheers

[Soundy]

Let's funnel every 5 year old and older car in the province through inspection shops.
This has already been the case in BC in the past, and is still the case in many jurisdictions. Be glad you live in BC today, where it's not.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[sebberry]

This may come as a surprise to you, but I can read. I know it has been the case in BC in previous years, and as I said once before - I am glad I live in BC where we have just a little less regulation.

[Soundy]

I never doubted you could read. I'm utterly shocked that you appear to comprehend.

[zulutango]

Bazinga! :Petting

[PandaFit]

Im just wondering but if i had Yellow LED piaa fog lights is that illegal?? and alsowhat if they were HID 5 LED fog lights

[Rich Sandor]

General Duties Members are probably not that well-versed in the details of the MV Act & Regs. A "cheater' is issued for quick reference to the offenses and they can mislead the user to believe certain sections apply, when a closer read of the actual legislation will show that it does not. Traffic Members should be better informed but some junior Members can make the same mistake. As many members in the LMSD are junior in service, this could be the problem.

I was going to post exactly this. In my 15years of driving I have come across a few RCMP members who are not BC natives and try to use a regulation from another province that doesn't exist in BC.

Using foglights when not required is one that several rcmp members have mistakenly ticketed for in BC.

Fight the ticket.

FYI, in Washington state there IS a law against it, and there you CAN get a ticket for it.

[rubenoff]

Im just wondering but if i had Yellow LED piaa fog lights is that illegal?? and alsowhat if they were HID 5 LED fog lights

we are Kinda O.E.M guys. and use the driving experience gained and teachings in defensive driving course, that guide us to drive road and weather conditions
have a nice weekend

[rubenoff]

I was going to post exactly this. In my 15years of driving I have come across a few RCMP members who are not BC natives and try to use a regulation from another province that doesn't exist in BC.

Using foglights when not required is one that several rcmp members have mistakenly ticketed for in BC.

Fight the ticket.

FYI, in Washington state there IS a law against it, and there you CAN get a ticket for it.

it seems pretty clear if there is fog use fog lamps, if there is no fog shut them off. sometimes we need to look at the front of the vehicle to see what lights are actually on, especially is the vehicle builder did not place an indicator on the dash of the unit to show the operator what lamps are displayed , we should not need to have the Gustappo come and give us an expensive ticket to remind us of our responsibilities as operators

[sebberry]

it seems pretty clear if there is fog use fog lamps, if there is no fog shut them off.

What is clear to me is that the BC MVA permits their use when there is no fog.

[Raid3n]

more lights lit on the front of the vehicle increases the visibility of the car, even in clear daylight conditions. hence mandatory drl use. so if you turn on another 2 lights that if aimed properly shouldn't affect anyone, more is better, is it not?

[sebberry]

The only downside to properly aimed fog lights being used all the time would be increased glare off a wet road surface. That's partly why I don't like HID headlamps - too much light reflecting off a wet road.

Other than that, I don't see why use of fog lights in clear conditions would be undesirable.

[zulutango]

The only downside to properly aimed fog lights being used all the time would be increased glare off a wet road surface. That's partly why I don't like HID headlamps - too much light reflecting off a wet road.


I never found that with my HID's...specially in the situation you describe here...but then, I'm getting older and blind these days. :toot:

[sebberry]

I never found that with my HID's...specially in the situation you describe here...but then, I'm getting older and blind these days. :toot:

I'm speaking about oncoming vehicles. Normally you have the cutoff preventing the full brightness of the bulb from blinding the oncoming driver, but with a wet road you have a considerable amount of that light bouncing up.

[rubenoff]

What is clear to me is that the BC MVA permits their use when there is no fog.

??????????


Fog lamps
4.11 (1) A motor vehicle may be equipped with 2 fog lamps, mounted on the front of the vehicle below the headlamps, that are capable of displaying only white or amber light.

(2) Each fog lamp must be
(a) mounted not more than 30 cm below the headlamps, and
(b) adjusted and aimed so that, at a distance of 8 m from the lamp, the centre of the beam is at least 10 cm below the height of the fog lamp.
(3) The fog lamp wiring and switch must permit simultaneous operation of the parking lamps, tail lamps, licence plate lamp and, if required, clearance lamps.
(4) The operator of a vehicle may use fog lamps instead of headlamps when atmospheric conditions make the use of headlamps disadvantageous.
[en. B.C. Reg. 476/98, s. 2.]

[Raid3n]

even in my lowered car, where most vehicles low beams are in my eyes anyway, i don't really notice the glare off the road too much.

[Raid3n]

??????????


Fog lamps
4.11 (1) A motor vehicle may be equipped with 2 fog lamps, mounted on the front of the vehicle below the headlamps, that are capable of displaying only white or amber light.

(2) Each fog lamp must be
(a) mounted not more than 30 cm below the headlamps, and
(b) adjusted and aimed so that, at a distance of 8 m from the lamp, the centre of the beam is at least 10 cm below the height of the fog lamp.
(3) The fog lamp wiring and switch must permit simultaneous operation of the parking lamps, tail lamps, licence plate lamp and, if required, clearance lamps.
(4) The operator of a vehicle may use fog lamps instead of headlamps when atmospheric conditions make the use of headlamps disadvantageous.
[en. B.C. Reg. 476/98, s. 2.]

and no where in that does it say you are prohibited from using the fog lights when atmospheric conditions do not require them, just that you are allowed to use ONLY fogs if the use of the fogs AND headlamps are disadvantageous.

[sebberry]

??????????
(4) The operator of a vehicle may use fog lamps instead of headlamps when atmospheric conditions make the use of headlamps disadvantageous.
[en. B.C. Reg. 476/98, s. 2.]

I've bolded the important bit..

[zulutango]

I've bolded the important bit..

Originally Posted by rubenoff
??????????
(4) The operator of a vehicle may use fog lamps instead of headlamps when atmospheric conditions make the use of headlamps disadvantageous.
[en. B.C. Reg. 476/98, s. 2.]

It's also important to bold this part of that quote..


Originally Posted by rubenoff
??????????
(4) The operator of a vehicle may use fog lamps instead of headlamps when atmospheric conditions make the use of headlamps disadvantageous.
[en. B.C. Reg. 476/98, s. 2.]

[Great68]

I don't find the glare of HID's any worse than the glare of regular halogens, provided they are properly aimed and in approved housings.

But those people with HID's in regular halogen housings should have a bat taken to their headlamps.

I've never found a factory installed fog light to be blinding at all. Again only the poorly aimed non-conforming aftermarket ones piss me off.

[sebberry]

in·stead/inˈsted/
Adverb:
2.As a substitute or alternative to; in place of: "walk instead of drive".


"Fog lamps instead of headlamps" implies the illumination of the fog lamps as an alternative to the illumination of headlamps. The fog lamps are on, the headlamps are off.

Now the "May use fog lamps instead of headlamps" bit grants the operator the right to turn off the headlamps and use just the fog lamps for forward illumination, but only when atmospheric conditions make the use of the headlamps disadvantageous.

What the act does not do is restrict the use of the fog lamps in conjunction with the headlamps to adverse weather conditions. It only restricts the use of fog lamps instead of headlamps to adverse weather conditions.

[rubenoff]

I.C.B.C. When a reprint of the Booklet I.C.B.C. MV 2075 ( 112009) is scheduled please consider inserting the following instructions on page # 119 before the booklet is printed for distribution ( add to driving tips at the top of R.H page

use fog lamps only in weather where there is limited visibility

Please remember to switch off the fog lamps in clear weather ( respect for oncoming drivers)

we have too many drivers who do not understand that having addition lamps lit is a disregard for oncoming drivers

Dear B and B

Thank you for your e-mail dated March 20, 2012 and suggestion.

I have taken the liberty of forwarding your suggestion to our Best Practice Team.

Thank you for taking the time to contact us.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Dale
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[sebberry]

rubenoff, why are you so opposed to the use of fog lamps in clear weather?

Their aiming is low, they produce virtually no glare for oncoming drivers and when the sun is low on the horizon, they may even make oncoming cars more visible.

EDIT: If you are going to spend your energy writing to the regulators, why not suggest to TC that they update the CMVSS to require all new vehicles with fog lights to be wired in such a way to allow fog light operation independant of the low-beam headlights.

This would actually make fog lights useful.

[rubenoff]

Thanks for the comments in the advent of D.R.L. in Canada there will always be 2 light,s lit on the front of Vehicles and in low light situations the drivers should switch on the park lamps and tail lamps manually to achieve illumination from the rear of the vehicle. ( this places 2 more lights on in the front of the (vehicle) 2 D.R.L. and 2 park lamp's

Its not a matter of the regulators Knowing its a matter of getting action onto the builder's many units have fog lamps on seperate switche's but many drivers put the fog lamps on and leave them on sometime's not knowing they are lit' ( like texting and driving) or using the cell phone while driving, and many times aftermarket fog lamps are wired up so they operate on low and high beam ??

our 2007 Ford focus has addressed the control for the driver the first click on the light switch places the park, tail lamps and marker lamps into operation There is a second switch that allows the fog lamps alone with the Park Tail and marker lamps this meets BC regulations

the operator then may switch off the fog lamps and pull the light switch one more click to operate the normal headlamps high or low beam however the operator may
choose low beam and fog lamps together but the fog lamps do not operate not high beam

On this unit the D.R.L. operate in the Low beam at aprox. half low beam brillance , and when headlamps are selected the D.R.L. is overridden in the low beam circuit

Have a nice week ahead