[E=mc²]

Just wanted to know what you guys think.

You're at an intersection with no left turn lanes and you and the car opposite you are planning on making left turns. Because both of you block each other's line of sight (even worse if it's a truck across from you), do you

a) lean out slowly and turn when it's safe?
b) just wait for the yellow?


I have on occasion leaned out, but now I usually just wait for the yellow because it's so dangerous to lean out. If there's a lineup behind the car opposite you, even when it is clear, they might switch lanes and proceed through the intersection and if they hit you you're at fault.
Similarly, if you lean out, and then the car opposite you is able to make his turn, now you're an asshole blocking the opposing left lane.

What do you guys do normally?
I could frankly care less if the person behind honks or whatever because they are obviously too dumb to realize that because they are farther back, they have a better view. You do not and will not risk getting an accident just to save someone 40 seconds of their life.

[monkeywrench]

I think it would be better to just wait, even if theres a line up of cars doing a left in the opposing lane it would prove yourself to be a lot safer. Unless you lean out, by the time you realize that you just blocked the incoming traffic, it would cause a jam and humiliate yourself

And if someone behind you is honking, just let him be, don't risk yourself for the sake of him

[!LittleDragon]

Always keep your car straight until you do the actual turn! So wait it out if you can't see. If you're rear ended and your car is straight, you'll just go straight but if your wheels are turned and you're at an angle, you'll follow the direction your wheels are pointing. You'll end up facing oncoming traffic and who knows if they can stop. So many times, the car in front of me makes the left and I try to go straight... only to find the oncoming guy sitting in my lane waiting to turn left.

[rsx]

Safety first, just wait.

If you're lucky enough and there are reflective store windows on that side of the street, use it. It's easier to use at night since people have headlights on.

[AzNightmare]

I would wait.

[tonyvu]

i'd wait for the yellow... better safe than sorry.

[m4k4v4li]

i never wait
sometimes i take a leap of faith

[cococly]

not wait until it's Yellow,

Wait until it's RED.

IF you got T-Boned by a car running Yellow, you are most likely 100% at fault

[orange7]

safety first..

your life is worth more than all those dumbasses lining up and honking behind you.

besides, the road sense book says that you should go when you feel it's safe to go..

[!Yaminashi]

If my vision is obstructed I always wait until I'm positive all cars coming my way have stopped, then make my turn, and I usually always complete my turn after the light is red.

I've never had someone honk at me due to this.

[CanadaGoose]

Wait till RED

people run yellows!!!!!!!!!! you're allowed to complete your turn on a red anyways....

maybe you meant red and just made a typo.

even if you think it's clear, or there's a gap just big enough for you, be aware someone could be trapped behind the left turners opposite from you, and suddenly pull out to go straight through the intersection

[6thGear.]

I guess no one took YD of Canada here? You should do the "S" approach when your waiting for a left turn anyway. Basically you position your car to the left of your lane position but still having the car straight and the wheels straight. Then you look through the opposing car's windows. At night look under the car or ground for headlight beams or use the parked car's reflection for lights.

[illicitstylz]

I've never heard of the S approach, but is it something like this?

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/2159/26259077vw1.jpg

[b-dub]

I guess no one took YD of Canada here? You should do the "S" approach when your waiting for a left turn anyway. Basically you position your car to the left of your lane position but still having the car straight and the wheels straight. Then you look through the opposing car's windows. At night look under the car or ground for headlight beams or use the parked car's reflection for lights.

That only applies if there is a median.

[b-dub]

I've never heard of the S approach, but is it something like this?

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/2159/26259077vw1.jpg

Essentially, you are trying to get the closest to the lane without actually being in it, it works well if there is a median there so you have an extra meter or so and you can see the cars coming easier.

However, if there is no median, there is nothing you can really do, I usually just wait until there is a yellow before i turn and even then, I make sure the car behind the left turner isn't going straight.

[6thGear.]

I've never heard of the S approach, but is it something like this?

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/2159/26259077vw1.jpg

Yes. Thank you for putting up an illustration. I would've but I suck at stuff like that.:)

That only applies if there is a median.

Yes and no. It works best if there is a median because it allows you to have the best view since you have that extra room, but in the case of the OP's scenario, you can still do it since you get that extra foot or so which will still help a lot.

[E=mc²]

the S approach, lol never heard of that.

Just to clarify when I said wait for the yellow, I mean also wait until it is safe, so this usually means wait until the red and you're positive there isn't anyone trying to beat the light.

People don't normally honk, I know for a fact there ARE a lot of drivers with common sense and courtesy. However, there are occasions where it happens.

Happened to me on canada way trying to turn at a flashing green (line up behind me, lineup across from me as well because of a pickup trying to make a left). It was impossible to see, even if if it "looked" like there were no cars coming I wasn't comfortable and just waited until the light changed which meant about 6 seconds later heh. I admit, this was during rush hour but I had to get to where I was going (normally don't take this route, and I was not breaking any laws as there were no signs prohibiting the turn.

I could care less about the driver(s) behind me if they are too impatient. But it sure is annoying as hell. You're driving your girlfriend and chatting, and some a-hole disrupts your conversation with an annoying honk. If it's a simple beep, okay, but some people lean on the horn. Regardless, it sure is annoying.

TBH it's like a natural reaction for me. Even though I could care less about the person (they won't influence me to make the turn any faster), the honk sure gets my blood boiling. I wish my body would not immediately get worked up about this but it's a natural reaction. Sure pisses me off lol. Next time ima finger the dude behind me. I saw a white guy finger someone behind him because the person was honking at him to make his turn. Lol good stuff.

(not saying it happens a lot, but when it does it's annoying as hell)

[carsncars]

There's an intersection like this in Coquitlam, Lougheed Highway at Chilko. The cars coming down Chilko turning left have their view obstructed by the left-turning cars in the oncoming lane (Como Lake). They tried to remedy it by giving the oncoming traffic a left-turn signal (I guess they thought the lane would clear by the time the signal was over) but there are too many cars left-turning onto Lougheed Highway (doesn't take a genius to predict that...). I don't understand why they don't just give the cars coming down Chilko a left-turn signal too.

Anyways, yes, my remedy is a.) wait for the vision obstruction to clear, b.) wait for the yellow, but most of all c.) Chilko is a downward incline, so if I wait about half a carlength before the intersection, I can see clearly. The other cars think I'm nuts or not paying attention, but at least I can see!

http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=Lougheed+Hwy+%26+Chilko+Dr,+Coquitlam,+Greater+V ancouver+Regional+District,+British+Columbia&sll=49.891235,-97.15369&sspn=45.536678,89.648437&ie=UTF8&cd=1&geocode=FfWx7wIdGkCu-A&split=0&z=16&iwloc=addr

I've seen a couple accidents that are the result of "leap of faith" drivers (or worse! drivers jumping out of the oncoming left-turn queue to go straight!). So I think it's worth it to play it safe.

[LsquareD]

Close your eyes.. Count 3 seconds in your head and GO! I heard it works.

[twitchyzero]

I just keep my wheels straight..and when the light turns yellow..i let go of the brake..and proceed when it's clear.

I only honk when the person in front of me is blanking out.

I actually honked at some c-lai that was trying to break the last split second of the yellow light (she was going straight, i was the leftie). Usually i dont mind it but she was doing it at 40km/h and the traffic in front of her was all the way to the intersection already.

[twitchyzero]

At night look under the car or ground for headlight beams or use the parked car's reflection for lights.

When you start relying on that..what happens when the opposing car that's running the yellow light doesnt have his/her headlights on?

[alex.w *//]

perfect example would be turning left onto e hastings from renfrew. if the #16 bus is turning left onto e hastings from renfrew. The view is totally obstructed, and in rush hour traffic, the left turn lane is jam packed with cars.

[Rikaro]

wait for sure. Why care what the car behind thinks?

[tiger_handheld]

I guess no one took YD of Canada here? You should do the "S" approach when your waiting for a left turn anyway. Basically you position your car to the left of your lane position but still having the car straight and the wheels straight. Then you look through the opposing car's windows. At night look under the car or ground for headlight beams or use the parked car's reflection for lights.


that's what i do, but i didnt take YD... as a driver, you always want to see as much ,and as far as you can...

it's like looking for a sniper , see , but not be seen ;)

[tiger_handheld]

When you start relying on that..what happens when the opposing car that's running the yellow light doesnt have his/her headlights on?

you should be able to look at reflections from store windows etc..
if there are no store windows , u look thru the persons ( the person who's turning left) window, you should be able to see any light that is moving from back to front...

[E=mc²]

perfect example would be turning left onto e hastings from renfrew. if the #16 bus is turning left onto e hastings from renfrew. The view is totally obstructed, and in rush hour traffic, the left turn lane is jam packed with cars.

Southbound Renfrew eh. Does the left turn signal actually work? I recall times during rush hour when I turn onto Renfrew (after coming from dundas) and the advance arrow never appears.


you should be able to look at reflections from store windows etc..
if there are no store windows , u look thru the persons ( the person who's turning left) window, you should be able to see any light that is moving from back to front...

Yeah whatever method works.

Personally I just wait simply because it's easier to wait instead of forcing/straining myself trying to get a good view because even then, there are exceptional cases (don't you just love that) where some idiot doesn't have his lights on so you don't notice him and BAM you're fucked.

[twitchyzero]

When you start relying on that..what happens when the opposing car that's running the yellow light doesnt have his/her headlights on?

you should be able to look at reflections from store windows etc..
if there are no store windows , u look thru the persons ( the person who's turning left) window, you should be able to see any light that is moving from back to front...


i think you missed the purpose of my statement

[hotjoint]

wait for the yellow or even red if its really buxy

[impactX]

S-approach. If that doesn't work, you don't wait till yellow, you wait till everyone on the opposite lane stops (or almost stops).

[kuri]

So why do they call it the "S-Approach"?

But yeah, like what everyone else have said already, do what you can to get a view without obstructing the opposing lane. If you can't (and especially when it's dark and some mofos have all their lights off), just wait it out. Better safe than sorry.

[Shun Izaki]

I just... lean a BIT... not enough that the front nose of my car is in their lane...If they hit me, i KNOW i'm still in mine

[q0192837465]

I'd just wait.

Saving a few seconds for the guy behind me is not worth putting myself in danger.

[Dragon-88]

Stay straight and dont turn until the intersections is clear. You must NOT lean into the oncomming lane because, one if the guy on the opposite lane get to turn and all the car behind him are going straight then ur the ass in the middle of an intersection, you should also stray straight before you turn because, if some one where to hit you from behind and your wheels are facing left guess where your car is going once u get hit.. Onto the incomming lane.... Just best to be patient and wait.

[E=mc²]

I guess it's pretty much unanimous.
Glad to see I'm not the only one doing this.
It IS hard tho I have to say, if you're at an intersection that doesn't have lights....like 1st ave east of Clark. Sometimes cars in both directions are turning left and since there's no light you can't use that to your advantage.
The good news is the person facing the uphill has a good view of oncoming cars in both lanes (sorta) whereas the downhill person is screwed.

haha I just avoid these types of intersections like the plague. No point stressing oneself.

[Stevie P]

Punch it and hope for the best.

[6thGear.]

When you start relying on that..what happens when the opposing car that's running the yellow light doesnt have his/her headlights on?

I never said I relied on it. Its simply an extra tool to use when driving. Same with the S-approach and looking through the windows of the opposing traffic. You can also roll your window down and stick your head out. Driving isn't black and white, there's tons of variables out there and you use any and all tricks to avoid accidents.

Drivers out there are becoming more and more idiotic and their bad habits are more apparent than ever. For instances, a stop sign means to come to a complete stop BEFORE the sign. Everyday I see drivers do a rolling stop and literally slam on their brakes past the corner of the curb. Or better yet when they take a turn they don't turn into the closest lane to them, they take the farthest lane out cause they're fucking lazy.

Maybe we should make a thread on driving tips:)

[E=mc²]

I never said I relied on it. Its simply an extra tool to use when driving. Same with the S-approach and looking through the windows of the opposing traffic. You can also roll your window down and stick your head out. Driving isn't black and white, there's tons of variables out there and you use any and all tricks to avoid accidents.

Drivers out there are becoming more and more idiotic and their bad habits are more apparent than ever. For instances, a stop sign means to come to a complete stop BEFORE the sign. Everyday I see drivers do a rolling stop and literally slam on their brakes past the corner of the curb. Or better yet when they take a turn they don't turn into the closest lane to them, they take the farthest lane out cause they're fucking lazy.

Maybe we should make a thread on driving tips:)

Hmm, but if you're not gonna rely on it then there really isn't a point in looking at the reflections then? For instance, if my view is obstructed by the opposing left turner (with a long lineup behind him) I've pretty much made up my mind to wait until the light changes you know what I mean. I sometimes don't even bother looking at traffic, and just wait for the light to change. Because I've noticed that during times where I watch for oncoming traffic closely, I KNOW I still won't go just because it appears that there are no more oncoming cars. Rather not risk it. It may look safe but the "what ifs" makes me feel safer to just wait for the yellow. Thus, any other methods to see better are irrelevant IMO. And obviously leaning out is a no no.

Off topic, but I'm guilty of doing the rolling stops at stop signs and turning onto the center lane. To be honest I don't think rolling stops are any more dangerous. If there's a pedestrian about to cross or whatever I know to stop fully, that's common sense. For the right turns, the curb lane is usually filled with parked cars so it really makes no sense to turn into it sometimes. Plus, sometimes turning into the curb lane is just too tight of a turn and it's easier to go to the left lane (e.g. Commercial turning onto 1st Ave eastbound).

Another issue with turning right onto the curb lane, say you're trying to turn right and cross traffic is only on the left lane, none on the curb lane. Would you still turn? I, like most people, would actually wait for cross traffic in the left lane to pass before making my turn because it's really tight of a turn, plus what if someone in the left lane decides to change to the curb lane? Very dangerous IMO.

and I agree, a thread on driving tips would be a very good idea ;)

[6thGear.]

Ok. Let me rephrase myself. Its one of the tips I use when driving. Not only do I use the reflections, I also look through the opposing cars window or I'll stick my head out of my window. Of course when all else fails, I will wait for the red light. Rolling stops may not be dangerous as it sounds, but lets say you do that and an intersecting car crosses your path. Not knowing if your going to fully stop, they slam on their brakes thinking your running a stop sign. They end up getting rear-ended by a tail-gater. You may not have been in that accident but you sure as hell just caused it. Your already at fault according to ICBC.

As for the right turns, major streets have 3 lanes. Center lane, middle lane and curb lane. If your turning right, you take the closest available lane. Same as if your turning left. Its not that hard. No right turn is "too tight". They all have the same degree's of turn. Now of course that only applies when you have 2 lanes of traffic. But if you only have 1 lane of traffic, then its pretty obvious you turn when its safe to do so and not turn into the curb lane, since your supposed to take the closet available lane and the curb lane with parked cars is deemed not available. I don't even know why you brought that scenario up. That's just common sense man!

Now, I'm no traffic driving guru. It's just that having to take my class 6 road test 6 years ago really opened my eyes and refreshed a lot of the road rules I had forgotten. It also made me realize just how much we all need to follow them. They were made up and implemented for a reason.

[E=mc²]

As for the right turns, major streets have 3 lanes. Center lane, middle lane and curb lane. If your turning right, you take the closest available lane. Same as if your turning left. Its not that hard. No right turn is "too tight". They all have the same degree's of turn. Now of course that only applies when you have 2 lanes of traffic. But if you only have 1 lane of traffic, then its pretty obvious you turn when its safe to do so and not turn into the curb lane, since your supposed to take the closet available lane and the curb lane with parked cars is deemed not available. I don't even know why you brought that scenario up. That's just common sense man!


I meant turns like from commercial onto a 2 lane road (where both lanes are used - not a street like Hastings where the curb is usually parked cars) are tight, but actually even more so when it comes to turns from a driveway.

I guess I should've been more clear, a better example would be turning out of a parking lot onto the curb lane on First Ave for instance. (RBC parking lot at renfrew, or the one by commercial). Believe me it's tight as hell and when you have fast moving traffic, common sense tells you to wait til BOTH lanes are free and then make the turn (not make the turn when only the curb lane is free because cars in the left lane may switch lanes into you or you may cut into the left lane slightly for instance and cause an accident). The second point in the brackets refers more to "shitty" drivers but even the best drivers can't help but cut into the left lane slightly when they are driving a van or pickup truck.

this is irrelevant for streets like broadway/hastings, but more for First Ave, 12th ave where both lanes are free, there are no parked cars. And it refers more to turns from a driveway.