[Harvey Specter]

Taking Ecstasy is no worse than riding a horse, the Government's top drug adviser has claimed.

Writing in a medical journal, Professor David Nutt said taking the drug was no more dangerous than what he called "equasy", or people's addiction to horse riding.

He is the chairman of the Home Office's Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs (ACMD).

The organisation is expected next week to recommend that Ecstasy is downgraded from class A to the less dangerous class B classification. Ministers have outlined their opposition to such a move.

Prof Nutt's article in the latest edition of the Journal of Psychopharmacology is entitled "Equasy -- An overlooked addiction with implications for the current debate on drug harms".

He writes: "The point was to get people to understand that drug harm can be equal to harms in other parts of life. There is not much difference between horse riding and Ecstasy."

The professor said equasy - short for equine addiction syndrome - caused more than 100 deaths a year.

He adds: "This attitude raises the critical question of why society tolerates - indeed encourages - certain forms of potentially harmful behaviour but not others such as drug use."

Ecstasy use is linked to about 30 deaths a year, up from 10 a year in the early 1990s. Fatalities are caused by massive organ failure from overheating or the effects of drinking too much water.

The ACMD has distanced itself from Prof Nutt's comments. A spokesman for the body said: "The recent article by Professor David Nutt was done in respect of his academic work and not as chair of the ACMD.".

[slammer111]

Eh, it's like raising speed limits. There will always be those oldschool conservative people who never allow some things to change..

[goo3]

ahahahaha Prof Nutt

[nipples]

.....the danger of a drug can not be simply measured by the number of deaths a year though! A drug like ecstasy is dangerous for two main reasons:
1. the elevation of body temperature, and in combination with physical exertion (like raves - the most common setting for the drug's use) can cause harm. The problem is also that people often take more of the drug as they think it's not working - often doubling up doses.

2. the second and arguably more serious reason is the neurochemistry behind the drug. The net effect of the drug is basically pouring hydrogen peroxide directly onto your brain! Although quite dry, basically what happens is the massive release flooding of serotonin into the synapses with the prevention of reuptake vessicles to break down the neurotransmitter. This in and of itself would be harmless aside from a little euphoria. Even the effects of serotonin depletion (the downs) can be considered minor. The problem lays in the fact that dopamine reuptake vessicles are also able to bind serotonin. However, when they begin to break down serotonin they create free radicals that are basically a self-perpetuating machine. The free radicals then begin to eat up axons in the brain. The net effect...pouring hydrogen peroxide into your head.

I can't believe that this dr. nutt is advocating the removal of X as a schedule 2 drug on the sole basis that it only causes 30deaths a year.

It's like if i said heroin should be legalized and sold in coffee shops because it's net physiological effect on humans is identical to that of coffee - dehydration!!

[Nightwalker]

This follows another recent study in the UK that rated substances in order of harm. Ecstasy was very low. Glad to see more truthful reports surface.

[TekDragon]

I was always under the impression that ecstasy was linked to permanent changes in the brain after a few uses. Then again, I don't use it so I never really bothered to research it much.

[Drk]

:high:

[Marco911]

.....the danger of a drug can not be simply measured by the number of deaths a year though! A drug like ecstasy is dangerous for two main reasons:
1. the elevation of body temperature, and in combination with physical exertion (like raves - the most common setting for the drug's use) can cause harm. The problem is also that people often take more of the drug as they think it's not working - often doubling up doses.

2. the second and arguably more serious reason is the neurochemistry behind the drug. The net effect of the drug is basically pouring hydrogen peroxide directly onto your brain! Although quite dry, basically what happens is the massive release flooding of serotonin into the synapses with the prevention of reuptake vessicles to break down the neurotransmitter. This in and of itself would be harmless aside from a little euphoria. Even the effects of serotonin depletion (the downs) can be considered minor. The problem lays in the fact that dopamine reuptake vessicles are also able to bind serotonin. However, when they begin to break down serotonin they create free radicals that are basically a self-perpetuating machine. The free radicals then begin to eat up axons in the brain. The net effect...pouring hydrogen peroxide into your head.

I can't believe that this dr. nutt is advocating the removal of X as a schedule 2 drug on the sole basis that it only causes 30deaths a year.

It's like if i said heroin should be legalized and sold in coffee shops because it's net physiological effect on humans is identical to that of coffee - dehydration!!

Pls quote your medical credentials or references to the above.

[m4k4v4li]

.....the danger of a drug can not be simply measured by the number of deaths a year though! A drug like ecstasy is dangerous for two main reasons:
1. the elevation of body temperature, and in combination with physical exertion (like raves - the most common setting for the drug's use) can cause harm. The problem is also that people often take more of the drug as they think it's not working - often doubling up doses.

2. the second and arguably more serious reason is the neurochemistry behind the drug. The net effect of the drug is basically pouring hydrogen peroxide directly onto your brain! Although quite dry, basically what happens is the massive release flooding of serotonin into the synapses with the prevention of reuptake vessicles to break down the neurotransmitter. This in and of itself would be harmless aside from a little euphoria. Even the effects of serotonin depletion (the downs) can be considered minor. The problem lays in the fact that dopamine reuptake vessicles are also able to bind serotonin. However, when they begin to break down serotonin they create free radicals that are basically a self-perpetuating machine. The free radicals then begin to eat up axons in the brain. The net effect...pouring hydrogen peroxide into your head.


too bad this only applies to pure mdma, NOT ecstasy
ecstasy is fucking terrible, its a drug cocktail mix of unknown party drugs of random amphetamines ... ie speed meth fuck w.e u name it, if it can be binded and pressed into a pill / capsule, and is cheap... chances are its been in an ecstasy pill
ya.. no thanks

the key tho is... MODERATION

[Lomac]

too bad this only applies to pure mdma, NOT ecstasy
ecstasy is fucking terrible, its a drug cocktail mix of unknown party drugs of random amphetamines ... ie speed meth fuck w.e u name it, if it can be binded and pressed into a pill / capsule, and is cheap... chances are its been in an ecstasy pill
ya.. no thanks

the key tho is... MODERATION

Was going to say ecstasy is typically a shit mix cocktail of who-knows-what. Pure mdma may not be so bad but the stuff that most people cut it with for ecstasy is.

[nipples]

Pls quote your medical credentials or references to the above.

honestly, i could care less if you believe me.

however, i will provide the sources to educate the RS community on this drugs physio and neuro effects. I'm not trying to tell people not to take the drugs, but if you are going to take them, atleast take them with the knowledge of what they're doing to your body.

1. i said it raises the temperature of users in rave like settings.
"3.1.1 Temperature Emergency medical personnel occasionally encounter patients that consumed ecstasy and are running a fever over 43 °C [58]. Accordingly, the capacity of MDMA to increase core temperature has been a primary research focus of many laboratories." http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/redirect3.cgi?&&auth=0zk3357RG-zXel1152eIcFoV_HFfynRl69Ue9ckD0&reftype=pubmed&artid=1896315&article-id=1896315&iid=145085&issue-id=145085&jid=319&journal-id=319&FROM=Article%7CCitationRef&TO=Entrez%7CPubMed%7CRecord&rendering-type=normal&&http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16044094

2. i said it causes neuro degen. and increase of serotonin (5HT) in the synapses. you can research or google GREEN, A.R. & GOODWIN, G.M. (1996). Ecstasy and neurodegenera.
or it is summarized here http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1572928&tool=pmcentrez

3. mode of action of neurodegen. i said was from the metabolism of 5ht...with the main culprit being that of dopamine reuptake vessicles breaking down 5ht resulting in formation of free radicals.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7582557

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1572928&tool=pmcentrez#bib20

i'm hoping the links work...i didnt have to sign in with my id to retrieve them so hopefully they will.

if they don't well i'm sure you can easily google them or go onto pubmed yourselves.

------
however, i must say this: I find it surprising that anyone would question the validity of a drug being harmful (mind you, i am not anti-drug...quite the contrary as i specialized in it...rather i'm pro drug education) and would want irrefutable proof by way of medical sources and journals. That's akin to me saying that eating mcdonalds everyday could be quite a smart health choice and until i am given a hard copy of scientific studies done showing the adverse health effects of 3bigmacs a day i will treat it as the ultimate health food. That's like stuffing your head in the sand to prove there is no sun!

[nipples]

cool it works.

sorry i realized i missed one part out...the doubling up of doses.

mdma doses are considered low at 1.5mg/kg and high doses at 7.5mg/kg.

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=2080863&tool=pmcentrez shows that humans show elevation in temperature at 2mg/kg without noticing it themselves and this is without exercise.
- the LD50 for mdma is at 22mg/kg. ie. you'd really have to want to OD.

I'm too lazy to find more as i'm done work now...but if you want, you can easily google the time it takes for mdma to kick in and then measure that against the effective doses and half-life of the drug to see whether one will experience an exponential increase in detrimental effects of the drug or not based one a one time exposure.

have fun.

[misteranswer]

I can't believe that this dr. nutt is advocating the removal of X as a schedule 2 drug on the sole basis that it only causes 30deaths a year.

It's like if i said heroin should be legalized and sold in coffee shops because it's net physiological effect on humans is identical to that of coffee - dehydration!!

Did you come up with this conclusion because you read the journal article that is being published?

[pintoBC_3sgte]

holy crap chandler whend u have time to look into all of this

[BoneThug]

.....the danger of a drug can not be simply measured by the number of deaths a year though! A drug like ecstasy is dangerous for two main reasons:
1. the elevation of body temperature, and in combination with physical exertion (like raves - the most common setting for the drug's use) can cause harm. The problem is also that people often take more of the drug as they think it's not working - often doubling up doses.


though I agree with point 2, the first point is silly. just cause people abuse something doesnt mean it is the substances fault. tons of people dont think they are drunk and keep drinking even though they are way past their limit. thats the persons fault, not the drug.

[nipples]

holy crap chandler whend u have time to look into all of this

just as i was about to leave work hahaha

y'dont remember me upstairs writing papers at like 4am when anton would come in to do inventory? then i'd suit up and start work a lil afterwards? LOL

fun times i tell ya. fun times.

[Hondaracer]

as i've said before, if your taking chalk tabs, your just taking garbage anyways

pure MDMA is almost always in a gel cap, and loosely packed, not "triple pressed" bla bla bla

i'd have no problem taking pure MDMA from trusted sources, but people who take chalk tabs are just injesting poison

[nipples]

though I agree with point 2, the first point is silly. just cause people abuse something doesnt mean it is the substances fault. tons of people dont think they are drunk and keep drinking even though they are way past their limit. thats the persons fault, not the drug.

well i totally agree you and the notion that it's not the substance's fault for people abusing it. But that's not to say that policies are not tailored specifically to target the substance as opposed to the abusers.

I say it's dangerous because of the following logic:
if one believes X has neurotoxic effects, and taking it will lead to those effects, then taking more of it would lead to more neuro degen.

However, if one believes X is great and should be given out as candy for all...then well...there's nothing more to say.

Again, i'm neither against drug use nor for it. Rather, I think that if people are going to be using...that they should be using with some insight as to the effects of the drugs.

-----
Misty: you can click any of the links and research it yourself

[wouwou]

so is this how they are going to finance the 2012 games?

[Vansterdam]

i prob popped in the hundreds when i was younger =\ harsh feel all junked out now every time i think about it

[nipples]

as i've said before, if your taking chalk tabs, your just taking garbage anyways

pure MDMA is almost always in a gel cap, and loosely packed, not "triple pressed" bla bla bla

i'd have no problem taking pure MDMA from trusted sources, but people who take chalk tabs are just injesting poison

i'm citing lab studies...and we do not go out to score our drugs from dealers.
just like how our animals are lab bred and not from under the docks of granville island.

[Nocardia]

just to throw this into your minds;

most doctors/pharmacists/medical people would say the most dangerous drug is alcohol.

if they downgrade something like ecstacy it is only a matter of time before it becomes a major killer.

on the whole, most people are not educated about anything they put into their body and assume that because its for sale, then it must be safe....and if its not for sale then it is dangerous...

same with illicit drugs...

[misteranswer]

on the whole, most people are not educated about anything they put into their body and assume that because its for sale, then it must be safe....and if its not for sale then it is dangerous...

same with illicit drugs...

And riding horses, which actually seems to be even more dangerous.

1 in 250 occurrences results in an incident.

[BNR32_Coupe]

Would you want your 15 year old son/daughter to pop E at raves regularly or ride horses?

[misteranswer]

Would you want your 15 year old son/daughter to pop E at raves regularly or ride horses?

Glad someone is finally understanding the article.

[BoneThug]

i wonder why a 15 year old girl is riding a horse. it aint cause she always wanted a pony. slut. go to your room and pop pills like a good girl

[ws6ta]

Would you want your 15 year old son/daughter to pop E at raves regularly or ride horses?

pop E of course...riding horses is too expensive :thumbsup:

[achiam]

The other major thing that must be mentioned is that Ecstasy reacts differently in different ethnic groups. In pharmacology class, we were given studies showing how different ethnic groups genetically lacked a key enzyme used to break down ecstasy.
While 30% of caucasians lacked this enzyme, only 2% of orientals lacked it.
Without the enzyme present, the drug's active ingredient would continue working in the brain longer, and increasing the damage caused by sustained neuron serotonin release.

Ecstasy works on the brain, by prolonging serotonin release. Imagine that your nerves are essentially many millions of extension cords lined up together. A signal initiates the nerve to conduct a weak electrical signal to travel along its length. When it reaches the nerve terminus, the nerve wants to transmit this signal across the gap and to the next nerve. It does this by releasing chemicals into this gap, which rapidly find their way to the next nerve.
The problem is that if these chemicals remain in the gap, the signal is sustained continuously as opposed to a single precise impulse. To prevent this, the end of the first nerve is not only able to release that signalling chemical, but also to retake it up and break it down - this means that the gap will only have chemicals for a very short time.

What ecstasy or MDMA (active ingredient) does, is not only block this signalling chemical's re-uptake from the gap, but facilitates even more release. The nerve is therefore working hardcore overtime to release maximal amounts of serotonin - imagine redlining your car beyond the redline for hours!
Most studies have used brain scans which use radioactive labels as tags - you ingest faintly radioactive materials that bind to serotonin releasing neurons, which show on scans looking for radioactive materials, and it has been shown in many published papers that chronic ecstasy users show much less serotonin neurons.

This is significant, as serotonin in the CNS (brain/nerves) is responsible for many attributes such as emotion, anger, hunger, body temperature, etc etc.

For people with healthy amounts of the enzyme used to break MDMA down, its degree of damage would obviously be less, but this depends on each individual, as your family genetics will always vary.

[achiam]

just to throw this into your minds;

most doctors/pharmacists/medical people would say the most dangerous drug is alcohol.


Sorry, I completely disagree with you on this.
Alcohol does not damage the nervous system with normal use, and its biological effects are temporary (hangover). In terms of danger, you'd also have to specify what type of danger - danger to the person alone, danger to the public?

[achiam]

too bad this only applies to pure mdma, NOT ecstasy
ecstasy is fucking terrible, its a drug cocktail mix of unknown party drugs of random amphetamines ... ie speed meth fuck w.e u name it, if it can be binded and pressed into a pill / capsule, and is cheap... chances are its been in an ecstasy pill
ya.. no thanks

the key tho is... MODERATION

Sorry, MDMA is an abbreviation for the Active Ingredient in the street drug "Ecstasy." MDMA on its own will function by forcing the brain's serotonergic nerves to work flat-out, and cause the nerve damage by reducing in numbers (although how this nerve degeneration occurs has not been clearly established). Of greater concern in street drug use however, are the binders and fillers that clandestine drug makers employ in formulating their product. I would wager that 99% of such illicit drug makers have no pharmacology background, and this is why police seized Ecstasy samples routinely contain horrid amounts of poisons you would never suspect (e.g. rat poison, etc etc.)

[Nightwalker]

I hope you all realize that bumping it one class would not make it legal. Currently it's Class A which has the most severe consequences for infractions.

Class A
Ecstasy, LSD, heroin, cocaine, crack, magic mushrooms, amphetamines (if prepared for injection).
Possession: Up to seven years in prison or an unlimited fine or both.
Dealing: Up to life in prison or an unlimited fine or both.

Class B Amphetamines, Cannabis, Methylphenidate (Ritalin), Pholcodine.
Possession: Up to five years in prison or an unlimited fine or both.
Dealing: Up to 14 years in prison or an unlimited fine or both.

Class C
Tranquilisers, some painkillers, Gamma hydroxybutyrate (GHB), Ketamine.
Possession: Up to two years in prison or an unlimited fine or both.
Dealing: Up to 14 years in prison or an unlimited fine or both.