[wasabisashimi]

2005 Audi Allroad 2.7T 81300km. NAVI, fully loaded. assuming no major accidents

Price options:
1) 25900$ pay in full
2) This vehicle may be leased:
$6,000 down
$327.26 per month* for 36 months
$13,000 residual value
7.95% interest rate
* plus applicable taxes, on approved credit.

I think lease option is 7500$ more than buy out, is that normal or am i calculating wrong. Seriously interested in this car, but dont know what to do.

PS: anyone's driven or own this car. Should i buy or walk away (if it sucks) or find better price
(if its a rip-off). How much will maintence for audi be like, moving up from economical japanse car company. What should i expect?

[!Yaminashi]

I've always been under the impression that euros are more expensive to maintain..
Also from what I've read on these boards, Audi's arent too reliable

[godwin]

I've read on these boards

You mean Revscene, which are filled with new drivers who barely have money to scrape by for their first cars, let alone maintenance?

I would suggest the OP to do the research in Audi oriented website like http://forums.fourtitude.com/

[!Yaminashi]

You mean Revscene, which are filled with new drivers who barely have money to scrape by for their first cars, let alone maintenance?

I would suggest the OP to do the research in Audi oriented website like http://forums.fourtitude.com/

Yes, these boards = revscene
I'd say this site has its fair share of ppl who can afford more than just a car + maintenance

[Rich Sandor]

I would strongly advise against leasing a 4 year old car, especially if it's an open end lease where you will be on the hook for the residual.

[spydermanx]

The air suspension alone will cost a fortune to maintain. keep an eye out for oil leaks, plugged pcv systems. Timing belt job can cost upwards of $1500 (dealer)

[wasabisashimi]

I would strongly advise against leasing a 4 year old car, especially if it's an open end lease where you will be on the hook for the residual.

isnt it normal for every lease to have a residual/buy out in the end of the term. I am considering leasing cuz i dont have 25900 in wallet.

[SkunkWorks]

That's a lot of KMs for a 4 year old vehicle.

[wasabisashimi]

average 20,000km per year!!! what is the norm for daily driver?

[Rich Sandor]

Most manufacturers (GMAC, Ford Credit, BMW financial, etc etc) do CLOSED END leasing, which means you will not have to pay anything at the end of the lease. (unless you've leave dings and dents all over the car)

And OPEN ended lease is what most 3rd party leases, like JP leasing or Tricor do - which means the residual is estimated, and if the car is actually worth less than the residual after the lease is over, than YOU HAVE THE PAY THE DIFFERENCE. So if the residual is $13,000 but after 3 years they say it's only worth $10,000, YOU HAVE TO COME UP WITH $3000.

Usually only NEW cars have closed end leases. Most dealerships that offer leases on older cars, and doing open ended leases, which I don't like to subject people to.

[cococly]

^ That's nice and Clear. Thank You

[wasabisashimi]

Most manufacturers (GMAC, Ford Credit, BMW financial, etc etc) do CLOSED END leasing, which means you will not have to pay anything at the end of the lease. (unless you've leave dings and dents all over the car)

And OPEN ended lease is what most 3rd party leases, like JP leasing or Tricor do - which means the residual is estimated, and if the car is actually worth less than the residual after the lease is over, than YOU HAVE THE PAY THE DIFFERENCE. So if the residual is $13,000 but after 3 years they say it's only worth $10,000, YOU HAVE TO COME UP WITH $3000.

Usually only NEW cars have closed end leases. Most dealerships that offer leases on older cars, and doing open ended leases, which I don't like to subject people to.

oh, so residual is not the same as buy-out option at the end of leased term?

[Rich Sandor]

Residual is what the payment is based on, Buyout is what it'll cost you do buyout the car. USUALLY they will be exactly the same; mutually exclusive terms.

But what I'm trying to say, is that on a CLOSED END lease, the residual/buyout is FIXED. (good for YOU) whereas on an OPEN END lease, it is re-evaluated at the end of the lease, and you are responsible if there is a difference oweing.

[b-dub]

Residual is what the payment is based on, Buyout is what it'll cost you do buyout the car. USUALLY they will be exactly the same; mutually exclusive terms.

But what I'm trying to say, is that on a CLOSED END lease, the residual/buyout is FIXED. (good for YOU) whereas on an OPEN END lease, it is re-evaluated at the end of the lease, and you are responsible if there is a difference oweing.

I've always wondered, who decides the value of the car after the term for the lease is up?

What stopping someone from say it's with 100 bucks and you have to pay a difference of XXXXX?

[wasabisashimi]

Residual is what the payment is based on, Buyout is what it'll cost you do buyout the car. USUALLY they will be exactly the same; mutually exclusive terms.

But what I'm trying to say, is that on a CLOSED END lease, the residual/buyout is FIXED. (good for YOU) whereas on an OPEN END lease, it is re-evaluated at the end of the lease, and you are responsible if there is a difference oweing.

so if i just want to walk away after lease term, residual and buy out will have no effect on me regardless of market value , am i right?

[Rich Sandor]

so if i just want to walk away after lease term, residual and buy out will have no effect on me regardless of market value , am i right?

Only on a CLOSED END lease.

On an OPEN END lease, you are still responsible for the difference between market value and residual/buyout.

The easy way to remember is that when a closed end lease is done, it's CLOSED, shut, done, over.

When an OPEN end lease is up, you still have loose-ends to tie up, the door is still "open"..

get it?

[Rich Sandor]

I've always wondered, who decides the value of the car after the term for the lease is up?

What stopping someone from say it's with 100 bucks and you have to pay a difference of XXXXX?

I *think* they base it on the Canadian Black Book. but I'm not 100% sure. It totally depends on what the contract states.

The bottom line is that if you are doing an open-end lease, and you think the lease end value is unrealistically high - don't sign the contract!!

[chunk_stir]

The air suspension alone will cost a fortune to maintain. keep an eye out for oil leaks, plugged pcv systems. Timing belt job can cost upwards of $1500 (dealer)

I wouldn't expect this car to be cheap to maintain, especially if you're coming from driving a japanese appliance on wheels. I've been eying an allroad for a long time. Just go to allroad forums for more info: forums.audiworld.com/allroad/

It's turbo-charged, quattro, with adjustable suspension... plus all the electronic gremlins that VW/Audi is known for. If you're paying someone else to do maintenance, expect the bills that come with owning this car. It's a bit of a gas hog too.

Still... that being said, I still would love to own this car. So as long as you know what you're getting into, then enjoy it.

[chunk_stir]

oh yah price-wise, these things are dirt-cheap in teh states.
http://www.audiusa.com/audi/us/en2/Certified_Audi/locate_audi_certified.htx?state=1&vin=WA1YD64BX5N018158&tab=1&distance=1448

17K USD for an 05 with 40K miles and Audi CPO'd

[Adsdeman]

No i dont think thats resonable, i think dat its crap!

[wasabisashimi]

I *think* they base it on the Canadian Black Book. but I'm not 100% sure. It totally depends on what the contract states.

The bottom line is that if you are doing an open-end lease, and you think the lease end value is unrealistically high - don't sign the contract!!


so ya, talked to the dealer, the lease will be open-ended. I just dont know if the car's residual price of 13000$ will be too high 3 yrs from now.


Also, how much more will I pay to import the same vehicle from USA, someone else provided a link to a nice one in Virginia. I like it but who knows if inspection, tax, transportation and safety updates will still make it a steal

[Mwing]

Only on a CLOSED END lease.

On an OPEN END lease, you are still responsible for the difference between market value and residual/buyout.

The easy way to remember is that when a closed end lease is done, it's CLOSED, shut, done, over.

When an OPEN end lease is up, you still have loose-ends to tie up, the door is still "open"..

get it?

if residual is lower than the market value of the car after the lease is done do they give money back?

[CivicTypeRice]

You mean Revscene, which are filled with new drivers who barely have money to scrape by for their first cars, let alone maintenance?

I would suggest the OP to do the research in Audi oriented website like http://forums.fourtitude.com/
you're one of them!:thumbsup:

[Rich Sandor]

if residual is lower than the market value of the car after the lease is done do they give money back?

No. That's called having "positive equity" at the end of your lease. You have to buy it out, and then sell it privately to make your money back.

If the lease-end value/residual/buyout was calculated more accurately your monthly payment would have been lower, and you could have just dropped the keys and walked away.

[Mwing]

No. That's called having "positive equity" at the end of your lease. You have to buy it out, and then sell it privately to make your money back.

If the lease-end value/residual/buyout was calculated more accurately your monthly payment would have been lower, and you could have just dropped the keys and walked away.


it sucks coz you can sell the car rite, but you have to buy out and add 12% tax, so it has to be a big difference in market value and risidual to make it fair

[wasabisashimi]

No. That's called having "positive equity" at the end of your lease. You have to buy it out, and then sell it privately to make your money back.

If the lease-end value/residual/buyout was calculated more accurately your monthly payment would have been lower, and you could have just dropped the keys and walked away.

actually, i called the dealer, if the residual is lower than car market value after lease expiration, They will pay me the difference. But!,,, here is the catch.: if we set the residual value too low, they will jack up the monthly lease payment. Set residual value high, monthly payment goes down---> higher chance that at the end of lease, you will have to pay them more cash instead if market value of car is lower than your agreed residual.


It is so tricky, I am really starting to lose interest in this vehicle.

[Meowjin]

don't get a car you clearly can't afford.

[hyek]

allroads seems to have tranny problems and air suspenison problems.

[JeffK]

allroads seems to have tranny problems and air suspenison problems.


Shenya is right...

2 biggest concerns w/ the allroad is the air bag suspension and the tranny.

The airbag issue isn't a HUGE deal if you can do things yourself... perviously you had to order the bags outta europe as no one in north america typically carries them anymore due to the allroad not be made. However a very well known US company that has been doing air ride suspesion for many many years has now been selling allroad specific bags and the feedback is great.

Other just swap out the bags and put in coil-overs, but that kinda defeats the allroad idea.

We bought an 02 allroad a little over a year ago. prices were MUCH higher then they are now.

Our's is a US car and it had close to 90,000 miles. It was already here in canada @ a only-slightly-shady dealership.

The only reason i felt good about buying is i'd been doing research on them for 6 months+ prior to buying and the car was imported by an audi tech and he went through it and did all the major things.

Car had a new tranny and all new air bags and a ton of other minor things. he ended up trading it to this particaular dealer for a A3 as it was to bad on gas for him. All w/ receipts from north shore audi.

This is by far the best allroad site:

www.audiworld.com - allroad section is incredible, the site format just blows goats.

There is typically an allroad section in any audi site, it's just not near as active.

The reason i went w/ the allroad was:

The 2.7 T, so all S4 mods (or well, most) transfer over.
I love the look, for a family wagon I think it kicks ass.
It has a factory hitch rated for 5000+ pounds - 2" receiver. People use allroads to tow a trailer w/ race car, etc...
The adjustible ride height means I can jack it up and get in most logging/fire roads for hiking/biking/etc...

the gas milage is bad around town. No doubt about it. I'm lucky to get 350-400 km's a tank (65 liters or so). Typically around 16L per 100 km.

On the highway its MUCh better doing 10L/100 KM

I think its a great car. The interior is fantastic, good looks, GREAT power from the 2.7 bi-turbo. over-all a very funcational car.

Until something big goes wrong... then i'm in trouble (no warranty) but my and my friends have always worked on our own cars so most labour will be saved.

If we weren't doing work ourselves, i would of had to think alot harder about the car

[Blinky]

I am considering leasing cuz i dont have 25900 in wallet.

don't get a car you clearly can't afford.

This.

Lease interest rate is high. You're already worried about maintenance costs. Throw in fuel and insurance too. At the end of the lease, you're on the hook for $13k for an eight year old car. Whee!

Oh, edit: industry average for milage on a used car is considered to be 24k k/year. In practice, especially in the city, the annual milage tends to be lower.

[wasabisashimi]

Shenya is right...

2 biggest concerns w/ the allroad is the air bag suspension and the tranny.

The airbag issue isn't a HUGE deal if you can do things yourself... perviously you had to order the bags outta europe as no one in north america typically carries them anymore due to the allroad not be made. However a very well known US company that has been doing air ride suspesion for many many years has now been selling allroad specific bags and the feedback is great.

Other just swap out the bags and put in coil-overs, but that kinda defeats the allroad idea.

We bought an 02 allroad a little over a year ago. prices were MUCH higher then they are now.

Our's is a US car and it had close to 90,000 miles. It was already here in canada @ a only-slightly-shady dealership.

The only reason i felt good about buying is i'd been doing research on them for 6 months+ prior to buying and the car was imported by an audi tech and he went through it and did all the major things.

Car had a new tranny and all new air bags and a ton of other minor things. he ended up trading it to this particaular dealer for a A3 as it was to bad on gas for him. All w/ receipts from north shore audi.

This is by far the best allroad site:

www.audiworld.com - allroad section is incredible, the site format just blows goats.

There is typically an allroad section in any audi site, it's just not near as active.

The reason i went w/ the allroad was:

The 2.7 T, so all S4 mods (or well, most) transfer over.
I love the look, for a family wagon I think it kicks ass.
It has a factory hitch rated for 5000+ pounds - 2" receiver. People use allroads to tow a trailer w/ race car, etc...
The adjustible ride height means I can jack it up and get in most logging/fire roads for hiking/biking/etc...

the gas milage is bad around town. No doubt about it. I'm lucky to get 350-400 km's a tank (65 liters or so). Typically around 16L per 100 km.

On the highway its MUCh better doing 10L/100 KM

I think its a great car. The interior is fantastic, good looks, GREAT power from the 2.7 bi-turbo. over-all a very funcational car.

Until something big goes wrong... then i'm in trouble (no warranty) but my and my friends have always worked on our own cars so most labour will be saved.

If we weren't doing work ourselves, i would of had to think alot harder about the car

Dealer offers extended warantee (powertrain) at a $3000 dollar for 3 yrs. This way I will not have to worry about paying for suspension or transmission problems when it appear.

[JeffK]

is this an audi dealer? with factory warranty?

otherwise those after market warranty's arn't worth the paper they are printed on

is it even a canadian car? Or a US car and they are reporting the milage in KM's?

That's really cheap for a canadian allroad, especially if its @ an audi dealership.

[taylor192]

average 20,000km per year!!! what is the norm for daily driver?
That's pretty normal for a DD. ~1600/mn or ~400/week or ~55/day

[taylor192]

2) This vehicle may be leased:
$6,000 down
$327.26 per month* for 36 months
$13,000 residual value
7.95% interest rate
* plus applicable taxes, on approved credit.
Do NOT take this.

I made the mistake of leasing my MB for 8.5% when there were cars available for 3-4%, cause I liked the car and wanted nothing else.
I learned an important lesson, it wasn't worth it.

You should NEVER have to leave that much down on a lease. You obviously have bad credit, or are making a bad decision.

I think lease option is 7500$ more than buy out, is that normal or am i calculating wrong.
I'm only calculating $4.8K more (considering a 0% loan to finance), yet you probably have to pay some admin fees (which you don't, they are a scam, negotiate them).

[wasabisashimi]

is this an audi dealer? with factory warranty?

otherwise those after market warranty's arn't worth the paper they are printed on

is it even a canadian car? Or a US car and they are reporting the milage in KM's?

That's really cheap for a canadian allroad, especially if its @ an audi dealership.

Its not an audi dealer, its a private dealer in West Vancouver. Car is US car but been in BC for past year. They told me the warantee will be same as factory, and an audi dealership will honer that and service me. The car dealer itself does not do service. Here is the dealer website :http://www.urbangarage.com/cars.asp?Category=TUGN

[JeffK]

It's not a candian car:


Details**:
We imported and sold this car approximately three years ago.

so thats why its so cheap. Canadian allroads are alot more cash.

Get full service records for it, etc... Also you have a very expensive maintainence bill coming up with the timing belt. Upwards of a grand or so I believe which is not covered under warranty.

Also, i'd be VERY worried about what they say in regards to that warranty. Call up the dealer and confirm it, don't trust anything about an aftermarket warranty.

Ask if the airbag suspension is covered and the turbo's. VERY expensive in both labour and parts.

If I was to go back... I would of waited to find a 4.2 car, less issues for sure. And the sound is sooo nice.

[Wormiez]

If you are interested I am open to give up my lease for my car:

2008 GTI
United Gray
4 DR
DSG, Fully Loaded leather interior
16K
Almost 2 years left on a lease contract.
Monthly payments after tax: CDN 550.00
Buyout: 18K (0 down)
Services and leased from Clarksdale

If you are interested we could negotiate a deal for a lease-takeover.

[dustinb]

If you are interested I am open to give up my lease for my car:

2008 GTI
United Gray
4 DR
DSG, Fully Loaded leather interior
16K
Almost 2 years left on a lease contract.
Monthly payments after tax: CDN 550.00
Buyout: 18K (0 down)
Services and leased from Clarksdale

If you are interested we could negotiate a deal for a lease-takeover.

So how is this related to his post about an Audi, that isn't even close to your GTI...?

On the whole, if you're mechanically inclined, Audi's are pretty easy to work on. There are lots of european parts suppliers around, and most of them carry parts for major models. As far as the deal goes, I wouldn't lease it, and would instead probably just go down to Seattle and pick up one for way less. Audi's sell for ridiculous prices down there. Can get a 01 TT for under $10K.

[JeffK]

here's another great site with alot of reference material:

http://www.allroadfaq.com/

Including this:

http://www.jaxed.com/cgi-bin/mash.cgi?itm=audi%20allroad&cat=cp&fil=&pg=&state=&ys=&ye=

this thing combs craiglist locations for allroads forsale. Its really good!