[BNR32_Coupe]

Did anyone else realize that in comparison to DUI, which kills 1,500 people per year in Canada, street racing is actually relatively safe?

Racing on city streets has become a public menace in some parts of Canada. During the first five months of 2006, at least eight people were killed as a result of street racing. In response, the federal government wants to create a new criminal offence with mandatory penalties.
Source:http://www.safety-council.org/info/traffic/racing.html

In 2006, just eight lives were killed in 5 months, assuming those 5 months are the sunny "driving" months.

Yet in comparison:
118 people in B.C. ONLY, NOT ENTIRE CANADA died as a result of impaired driving last year.
100 people (IDIOTS) in B.C. die as a result of failing to wear a seatbelt in an average year.
Source:http://www.canada.com/theprovince/story.html?id=c7c686a9-5a45-4b6f-b4da-7827a4d5c4a5


In our province alone, not including the other dumbasses in other countries, one hundred eighteen lives ended because somebody thought it was a good idea to have one too many before he stepped out the door. And only 8 people died of street racing IN CANADA last year.

Because of the 8 deaths last year, we'll be plugging in thousands of $ into anti-street racing campaigns, tougher penalties, criminalizing street racing, etc. If you go at it with a buddy on the highway for a few km at night, no other cars near by, you can go to jail, lose your car, have a crim record, pay thousands of fee's, be labeled by the media, etc.

But I can stumble to my Escalade on robson street and swerve down the block, get caught drunk driving and get my license taken away for a couple months.

Does this make sense to anyone?

[pandalove]

nvm :)

[Nocardia]

Do you really want to get into this?

[jeffh]

it kills less people, because less people street race maybe?


nope that cant be it

[AzNightmare]

Not only that, you'll never be able to convince the public even if DUI killed more people in the same ratio.

[BNR32_Coupe]

it kills less people, because less people street race maybe?


nope that cant be it

http://www.seattlescrabble.org/images/trophyBig.jpg

REALLY?! It kills less people because less people street race.. I didn't see that coming at all, in fact, that justifies my point that our nation is concentrating a significant amount of resources and increasing punishment for a seemingly insignificant thing.

Surely it's better to raise awareness and prevention for street racing, but think about it, you can be criminalized for racing on closed off streets where people are far from danger. I could put in another 5 minutes on google's search engine and list 3 more preventable things that the public does on the streets that is easily more dangerous and kills more people per year.

[BNR32_Coupe]

Do you really want to get into this?

bring it LOL i got my flame suit ready!! :D

[corollagtSr5]

have you ever concidered the people who've died drinking and driving, were street racing?

[syee]

Just because less people are killed, it doesn't make it SAFER. That's some pretty flawed logic there. It just means the actual death count is lower. Like others have mentioned, there's probably (very likely) less people doing it and if you took a percentage count of deaths vs actual number of people doing it, I would suspect the numbers would probably be equal for DUI vs street racing.

As for the penalties, yes, they have to be harsher. Any acts that put any innocent people at risk need to be dealt with harshly. Whether it be stepping behind the wheel when impaired, or racing on a public road. The act is illegal for a reason - because there is the POTENTIAL to harm the public. Whether or not you killed someone while you're in the act isn't the issue - it only takes one time - the innocent parent driving their kids home from soccer practice that gets hit by the drunk driver or the kid that runs out on the seemingly quiet road to retrieve his soccer ball that gets hit by a couple of people street racing on what seemed like a quiet street - you kill a person, and you drive a knife through the hearts of 20 other people that knew these people.

Losing one life to an illegal act is one too many. Just because the statistic is lower for one act, it doesn't make it any less safer or any more legal. I do however agree with your statement that the government needs to issue harsher penalties to those who drink and drive. It's so commonplace and the penalties so light that people don't care.

[Mugen EvOlutioN]

if death count is less technically it is SAFER

hence living in west van is safer than surrey


same shit different pile

:D


driving a Volvo is safer than driving a KIA



so who is gonna race me tonight
:haha::thumbsup:

i live my life a quarter mile at a time. Nothing else matters: not the mortgage, not the store, not my team and all their bullshit. For those ten seconds or less, I'm free

[syee]

if death count is less technically it is SAFER



I know you're joking but I still think the logic is flawed.

By that logic, if 5 people die from jumping off a building, and 10 people drowned from swimming in a pool, is jumping off a building safer and swimming less safe?

None take into account the actual number of people partaking in the activity. If you did that, you'd see that:

5/5 people that jumped off the building died. 100% death rate
10/1000 people that went for a swim drowned and died which is a 1% death rate.

Now in comparison, which one is safer?

I'm pretty sure diggy was just trying to get some discussion going on the statistics but the statistics don't mention anything about percentages and are just raw numbers of how many incidents involved death.

[BNR32_Coupe]

im confused.. lets say 8/8 street races in canada ended in a fatality. so it's likely that if i street race, i will inevitably be killed.

let's not look at the % but at the total number. there's only a small figure of street races happening in canada. versus drunk driving, which may be likely to kill less people, perhaps 1 million people are driving drunk as we speak but only 110 die per year.

why does it make sense to allocate such a large quantity of resources into a border line phenomena that kills a measly 8 out of 8 people in canada?? why can't we have stricter penalties for people who don't wear seat belts, given that it KILLS MORE PEOPLE?? we know street racing is lethal and every one that does it dies, but only 8 people street race per year!! EXPLAIN THIS TO ME

[hk20000]

there is a good amount of force used on DUI though, look at all those Drunk Driving roadblocks in the summer.

yesterday there was this police officer who just hid behind the corner of an on ramp trying to eyeball on someone who has no seatbelts on.

I haven't seen a "street racing" roadblock for years. Those modified cars blocks are for modified cars, they are concerned that you have an unsafe vehicle on the road. As stupid as the rulebooks say they have to make sure everyone abides to those rules when you mod your car... If your car look out of place, chances are something on it is out of whack anyway.

[syee]

The only reason I look at the percentage was because of your statement that if less people are killed, then it's safer. I don't agree with that statement, hence my examples and my statements above.

As for the disproportionate funds going to combat street racing vs drunk driving or seat belts, do you have some actual figures on how much is spent on each one?

I don't know how much funding is pushed towards preventing street racing. Other than media campaigns, I don't know how much more they can do to prevent street racing. I'm not in the street racing scene so I don't know how things like these are organized, but I'd have have to guess a lot of it is spur of the moment "I rev my engine at the light and you go at it with them" type of stuff. Unless a cop happens to be there when it happens, it goes unnoticed.

As for drunk driving and seat belts, I'm sure the checkpoints they set up for this and the large police presence doesn't come cheap. If it comes down to dollars, there may be the possibility that street racing media campaigns come out cheaper than sending hundreds of cops out on the streets busting drunk drivers or drivers without seatbelts. If you take that into consideration, more money may be spent on drunk drivers and seat belts than street racing.

However, I do agree with your statement that drunk drivers get nothing really more than a slap on the wrist compared to other crimes. Something more definitely has to be done about that to prevent drunk driving.

[BNR32_Coupe]

However, I do agree with your statement... .

Well then, my work here is done.

Moderators, close thread!

[syee]

Well then, my work here is done.

Moderators, close thread!

haha...you totally stripped out my quote and took it out of context.

Plus you're going to need to convince more than just me about drunk driving. Write to your local MP and have them do something about it. I've always agreed that drunk driving laws sucked.

However, street racing still isn't safer. ;)

[Lomac]

It's the media sensationalizing street racing that tends to make it appear to be a bigger problem than it actually is.

I know I might be splitting hairs here but there's a difference between red light drag racing, closing off an industrial park for an actual full race, and carving the twisties up in the mountains. Does the media see it differently? Of course not.

[BNR32_Coupe]

It's the media sensationalizing street racing that tends to make it appear to be a bigger problem than it actually is.

I know I might be splitting hairs here but there's a difference between red light drag racing, closing off an industrial park for an actual full race, and carving the twisties up in the mountains. Does the media see it differently? Of course not.

I agree. But Drinking + driving possibly exempt from harshness of media scrutiny because of demographics? I think so:

People that drink and happen to be able to drive [majority]:
- Politicians
- Teachers
- Law enforcement
- Doctors, lawyers, engineers
- Basically everyone

People that street race [minority]:
- Car enthusiasts that can't afford the track
- Teenagers

Assuming that we switched the roles, the majority of people street racing and the minority drink and drive, would there be tougher penalties for street racing assuming it kills the same amount of people that drinking and driving does?

Before anyone flames, I'm not supporting street racing. It's just some liberal stuff to think about, just like legalizing and taxing marijuana, etcetc.

Because the politicians, voters, general public doesn't street race, they don't see that it potentially can be a safe recreational activity. However, the politicians, voters, general public all has had a few beers, therefore, our laws are somewhat more forgiving towards drinking and driving, versus the little guy, street racing.

[syee]

I don't think that any of the people that you listed were ever made exempt from the penalties (as weak as they are) of drunk driving. I've seen news stories criticizing each one of those occupations. They're all getting penalized although whether it's to the full extent of the law is another question.

Street racing isn't a "safe" recreational activity. Track racing with the proper precautions is. I think there needs to be a differentiation here. Racing itself if done in a controlled matter isn't as dangerous to the public. Racing on a public road where you don't have control of external factors such as other drivers, passengers, etc isn't safe. To kill yourself racing irresponsibly is one thing - killing someone innocent who didn't make the conscious decision to partake in your "racing" is a whole other thing.

[GLOW]

Street racing isn't a "safe" recreational activity. Track racing with the proper precautions is. I think there needs to be a differentiation here. Racing itself if done in a controlled matter isn't as dangerous to the public. Racing on a public road where you don't have control of external factors such as other drivers, passengers, etc isn't safe. To kill yourself racing irresponsibly is one thing - killing someone innocent who didn't make the conscious decision to partake in your "racing" is a whole other thing.

:werd:

[MegaMx]

we'll be plugging in thousands of $ into anti-street racing campaigns, tougher penalties, criminalizing street racing, etc.
millions not thousands

[BNR32_Coupe]

I don't think that any of the people that you listed were ever made exempt from the penalties (as weak as they are) of drunk driving. I've seen news stories criticizing each one of those occupations. They're all getting penalized although whether it's to the full extent of the law is another question.

Street racing isn't a "safe" recreational activity. Track racing with the proper precautions is. I think there needs to be a differentiation here. Racing itself if done in a controlled matter isn't as dangerous to the public. Racing on a public road where you don't have control of external factors such as other drivers, passengers, etc isn't safe. To kill yourself racing irresponsibly is one thing - killing someone innocent who didn't make the conscious decision to partake in your "racing" is a whole other thing.

I mean, of course racing down robson street during broad daylight is dangerous.

The type of racing I was using in my example was probably interpreted as a blanket term, including the dangerous kind where people are likely to be injured. But what if you take into account the type of racing that has probably killed few, if not any. Such as on the highway, abadoned roads, blocked off roads, anything that would other wise be a deserted piece of asphalt that becomes a host for street races. If everyone raced like this, like in the golden muscle car era of the '60s i guess, wouldn't our laws be a bit more forgiving to street racing, as DUI laws are forgiving to drunken drivers?

[syee]

Street racing has always been interpreted as some douche driving way too fast down Marine Dr with some other punk not too far behind.

Highway racing I still don't approve of though. There's other innocent people on the road and you don't take into account other things that can cause accidents like road debris, a stalled car right around the corner you can't see, wildlife crossing the road, etc. All of those have the potential to cause accidents. Abandoned roads that are blocked off I wouldn't have a problem with since there's no one else around to potentially get hurt. I'm sure in those cases, fatalities are close to zero because of the controlled environment. However, I highly doubt that those are the races cops crack down on either.

[Adsdeman]

I love driving like a fucking idiot!!! Street racing is safe, drink driving is not. Street racing is safe, not wearing a seatbelt is not.

[q0192837465]

YOU GUYS ARE A BUNCH OF IDIOTS...

Let's think about it for a moment. Why does the government want to place harsher penalties for drinking and driving in the first place? By doing so, the government risks upsetting alcohol companies. A significant portion of the government's income comes from taxes on alcohol and tobacco. If less people drink, the governemtn will lose money. Just as if less people smoke, they'll get less tax.

On the other hand, placing harsher penalties for street racing will upset a bunch of kids who wants to act all macho in fron of their girlfriends. Boo-fuking-hoo. Like the governement cares about these kids. They'r not a source of income and screwing them over has no repercussion. AND they'll score brownie points for "looking out for public safety". Why da hell not?

The biggest flaw in this argument is the assumption that the government is to act in the best interest of the public. This assumption is valid ONLY during election time. Other than that, Income is always more important than Public Interest. The government is nothing more than a For Profit Organization with political power.

[syee]

^ That's pretty retarded logic.

So they're sitting on their hands doing nothing so they can collect taxes on booze and smokes? So you're saying they have corporate interests ahead of the protection of the people they are accountable to - the taxpayers?

Believe it or not, the government isn't trying to stop people from drinking. They're trying to stop them from drinking AND driving. They place penalties on drinking and driving to discourage the act. I personally don't think they're harsh enough, but that's a whole other matter. Drink all you want...but take a cab home, or have a designated driver. Don't fuck up someone else's life over a $30 cab fare. It's not meant to be a cash grab but sometimes the only way to get through to people is through their wallets.

Street racing is very much as irresponsible as drinking and driving, and the punishment should fit the crime. I don't think it's an issue of who gets affected from the penalties and the amount of revenue they can generate from these people who will be punished.

I think the punishment for drinking and driving should be just as severe as street racing. Drinking and driving punishments are nowhere near severe enough to discourage people from doing it.

[MG1]

http://www.mugshots.com/IMAGES/P__mugshot-gordon-campbell%20copy.jpg

[BNR32_Coupe]

I love driving like a fucking idiot!!! Street racing is safe, drink driving is not. Street racing is safe, not wearing a seatbelt is not.

Finally, somebody with a brain

[LemonH2O]

I'm sure FREDDY wants to contribute to this thread?

[simsimi1004]

IM not sure with my info,
Isnt dui already at a "high" in prevention? like isnt it already a criminal record, jailtime, etc. that you say street racing is turning into? so whats so bad about making street racing penalty/act come up to par with DD.

i honestly havent seen that much $$ spent into anti- street racing maybe its just me but,
Drinking: AA, MADD, ID checks, Police, TV ads/Media, breathlyzer,
Street Racing: police and the occasional Stories of how people were caught but not actual prevention ads. the only prevention media i can remember is that news story on the s2000 video of 240km/h.

more people DD because its less obvious to get caught with.

[BNR32_Coupe]

IM not sure with my info,
Isnt dui already at a "high" in prevention? like isnt it already a criminal record, jailtime, etc. that you say street racing is turning into? so whats so bad about making street racing penalty/act come up to par with DD.

i honestly havent seen that much $$ spent into anti- street racing maybe its just me but,
Drinking: AA, MADD, ID checks, Police, TV ads/Media, breathlyzer,
Street Racing: police and the occasional Stories of how people were caught but not actual prevention ads. the only prevention media i can remember is that news story on the s2000 video of 240km/h.

more people DD because its less obvious to get caught with.

no you get an easy slap on the wrist for DUI consider how many people die from it. no crim record, no jail time (unless you count drunk tank if you're severely drunk), and the media doesn't care

street racing now is criminal because 8 people died from it last year, whereas 110 people died in BC ALONE and nothing is being done about drinking/driving.

why is this in fight club? SERIOUS TOPIC!

[BNR32_Coupe]

I'm sure FREDDY wants to contribute to this thread?

he probably does, what's your point? i'm not condoning street racing, im saying how retarded our system is. got anything valuable to add, princess?

[Shun Izaki]

rofl. who cares.

Another pointless thread. Just race if you like at the track.

[325ist]

I love driving like a fucking idiot!!! Street racing is safe, drink driving is not. Street racing is safe, not wearing a seatbelt is not.

HAHA! I think I kind of fit into the same catagory and I have never been in an accident. Many of my friends have crashed their cars drinking but they never really came close while street racing.

[BNR32_Coupe]

rofl. who cares.

Another pointless thread. Just race if you like at the track.

How is this pointless? Freddy was on the news and he got 9 pages worth of the same retarded flaming. Like we get it, the guy likes to do burn outs, w/e. Half the people that flame him are just blindly jumping on the band wagon. But when I make a thread with real issues and facts to boot, no one gives a flying fuck because I make a good point and there's nothing more to prove.

Now this thread's in fight club for some unknown reason... revscene censorship lol the mods must silence those who speak out against the bandwagon's path

[Shun Izaki]

How is this pointless? Freddy was on the news and he got 9 pages worth of the same retarded flaming. Like we get it, the guy likes to do burn outs, w/e. Half the people that flame him are just blindly jumping on the band wagon. But when I make a thread with real issues and facts to boot, no one gives a flying fuck because I make a good point and there's nothing more to prove.

Now this thread's in fight club for some unknown reason... revscene censorship lol the mods must silence those who speak out against the bandwagon's path

I'm just saying, it's been brought up millions of times before in the past with all sortsa facts and everything. Nothing personal

[BNR32_Coupe]

I'm just saying, it's been brought up millions of times before in the past with all sortsa facts and everything. Nothing personal

we're supposed to be username brothers man come on:mad:

[MelonBoy]

I think for the fact that when people are drunk they cant make decisions and hence they drink/drive and fuck up... ( there being influenced by "Something" ) I doubt most people actually think about O im going to get smashed and drive home tonight!

Street racing on the other hand, the decision to speed/race is by the driver. Your not under the influence of anything, so you SHOULD be held more responsible for your actions. ( stricter penalties )

That and i dont tihnk you can compare Street racing to DUIs... like toher people posted the ratio to street races vs drunk people are way off..

[originalhypa]

How is this pointless?

It's not pointless at all. It's just diggy showing his ignorance and insolence. He's an unloved fat kid who's mother should have been slapped when his fat ass slid out of her bearded taco...

Anyway, the problem is that they have a coined the term "street racing" to mean "any form of racing on the street". Now, I'm not for street racing, because it is dangerous most of the time. However, my definition of street racing IS ripping down Robson in your mom's Accord. It's hugely different than what we used to do, which was "midnite drags". Find a safe place to race, and go at it. It's been happening since the 50's, and no form of "track racing" can every equal the fun and excitement of racing for cash at 2am.

Good thread.
It's too bad you have those like syee who are fear mongering, and repeating the same drivel that the media used to sell advertising space.

Just like they're doing now with the shootings...
"What are your chances of getting shot?" - news at 11.

or five years ago...
"What are your chances of being struck by a street racer?" - news at 11.

The facts are there.
Drunk driving, no seatbelts, or even driving while tired are far more dangerous to the public, than me and my buddy ripping down river road at 2am.

The facts don't lie.

[syee]

originalhypa - now you're just arguing semantics. Street racing covers all those types of racing you mention. Whether it be Robson St, Marine Drive or River Road. Street racing is racing on public streets regardless of where it is.

Am I spewing out fear mongering drivel? I don't see it as drivel. As someone who has been personally affected by it, I have reasons for my opinion. Is there no truth in what I say? Sure the stats being thrown around are low relatively speaking, but you can't argue that nobody has been killed by it.

You don't like the negativity thrown towards street racing? Blame the 18 year old fucktards that just got their N's and want to race anything with 4 wheels or want to do burnouts in parking lots. Just don't say I'm a fear mongerer spreading lies and half truths because that's the furthest from what I'm trying to do. I'm just stating my opinions on the matter. When you have someone you know killed by a street racer, come back here and tell me if you still have the same opinions about street racing.

While I agree that the media sensationalizes the issues to get more viewers, it still doesn't erase the fact that there is an underlying problem that needs to be addressed. I'm not debating racing is more or less dangerous than drunk driving, seatbelts, etc. If someone gets killed, it's dangerous period. I personally don't care for the varying degrees of it. The laws are there for a reason - to prevent anarchy and people from killing themselves, or other innocent people.

[Shun Izaki]

we're supposed to be username brothers man come on:mad:

hhahaha... totally...

I guess i'm more angry at work when stupid clients call in

[BNR32_Coupe]

originalhypa - now you're just arguing semantics. Street racing covers all those types of racing you mention. Whether it be Robson St, Marine Drive or River Road. Street racing is racing on public streets regardless of where it is.

Am I spewing out fear mongering drivel? I don't see it as drivel. As someone who has been personally affected by it, I have reasons for my opinion. Is there no truth in what I say? Sure the stats being thrown around are low relatively speaking, but you can't argue that nobody has been killed by it.

You don't like the negativity thrown towards street racing? Blame the 18 year old fucktards that just got their N's and want to race anything with 4 wheels or want to do burnouts in parking lots. Just don't say I'm a fear mongerer spreading lies and half truths because that's the furthest from what I'm trying to do. I'm just stating my opinions on the matter. When you have someone you know killed by a street racer, come back here and tell me if you still have the same opinions about street racing.

While I agree that the media sensationalizes the issues to get more viewers, it still doesn't erase the fact that there is an underlying problem that needs to be addressed. I'm not debating racing is more or less dangerous than drunk driving, seatbelts, etc. If someone gets killed, it's dangerous period. I personally don't care for the varying degrees of it. The laws are there for a reason - to prevent anarchy and people from killing themselves, or other innocent people.

street racing is a non-issue these days. 8 street racing deaths in 1 year in our nation.

although the act of doing something dangerous is pre-meditated (everyone knows racing on track or street is dangerous), the act of intentionally killing somebody isn't. nobody races to run into an oncoming car or pedestrian. that would be classified as an accident, just like drinking.

some may say when you're hammered, you're not in the right state of mind to make the decision between getting into a cab and getting into your car.

[originalhypa]

Natasha Richardson bumped her head skiing and died.
Does that suddenly make all skiing dangerous?

syee, your opinion is jaded due to personal loss. That's the same reason they won't let a police officer deal with a case that affects them personally. Same goes for a judge. You can't think straight with that sort of personal history.

You can't make "street racing" an all encompassing law. That's the reason why these charges aren't sticking. It's far too vague, and a prime example of the Conservatives knee jerk reaction to media induced paranoia.

[Nocardia]

YOU GUYS ARE A BUNCH OF IDIOTS...

Let's think about it for a moment. Why does the government want to place harsher penalties for drinking and driving in the first place? By doing so, the government risks upsetting alcohol companies. A significant portion of the government's income comes from taxes on alcohol and tobacco. If less people drink, the governemtn will lose money. Just as if less people smoke, they'll get less tax.


Holy moly, have you ever heard of healthcare? I suppose you think thats free huh? There is no way we should be taxing the very things that equate to heathcare usage then right?

Your sig is correct...your ignorance is bliss.

[Lomac]

originalhypa - now you're just arguing semantics. Street racing covers all those types of racing you mention. Whether it be Robson St, Marine Drive or River Road. Street racing is racing on public streets regardless of where it is.

Here, I'll respond with what I wrote earlier...
I know I might be splitting hairs here but there's a difference between red light drag racing, closing off an industrial park for an actual full race, and carving the twisties up in the mountains. Does the media see it differently? Of course not.

Am I spewing out fear mongering drivel? I don't see it as drivel. As someone who has been personally affected by it, I have reasons for my opinion. Is there no truth in what I say? Sure the stats being thrown around are low relatively speaking, but you can't argue that nobody has been killed by it.

In the USA between '98 and '01, there were 149,568 automotive-related deaths. Of that number, only 315 were attributed to "street racing," a mere 0.21%. That's what I'd call less than relatively low. Yes, a death is a death, regardless of how it occurs. However, when the punishment for carving the twisties at 2am when there's no one else on the road can be harsher than many other crimes that directly involve harm to other people (intentional vs accidental), it creates an unfair imbalance of crime and punishment. It's like if you murdered someone and know you're gong to be found guilty of it, you're better off killing everyone you need to because the Courts aren't going to throw you consecutive terms... you'll just serve 'em all at the same time.

You don't like the negativity thrown towards street racing? Blame the 18 year old fucktards that just got their N's and want to race anything with 4 wheels or want to do burnouts in parking lots. Just don't say I'm a fear mongerer spreading lies and half truths because that's the furthest from what I'm trying to do. I'm just stating my opinions on the matter. When you have someone you know killed by a street racer, come back here and tell me if you still have the same opinions about street racing.

F&F introduced an underground sport to the masses, which inevitably sparked a renewed interested in street racing. The older guys (and girls) that had been doing it safely for years suddenly found themselves surrounded by idiots doing burnouts on public streets with it's still crowded, people racing in busy city streets, and other stupid stunts. It's not just 18 year old kids with a brand new N on the back of the car that did this. It was basically anyone who found out about the "culture" and decided they wanted to be cool too without trying to understand or learn anything about respect and how you should or shouldn't act.

I know someone who was killed in what was officially deemed a "street racing incident," yet that doesn't stop me from running around the foothills in Langley or finding twisties up in the mountains. The difference is I know what can be considered dangerous to the public.

[BNR32_Coupe]

Here, I'll respond with what I wrote earlier...




In the USA between '98 and '01, there were 149,568 automotive-related deaths. Of that number, only 315 were attributed to "street racing," a mere 0.21%. That's what I'd call less than relatively low. Yes, a death is a death, regardless of how it occurs. However, when the punishment for carving the twisties at 2am when there's no one else on the road can be harsher than many other crimes that directly involve harm to other people (intentional vs accidental), it creates an unfair imbalance of crime and punishment. It's like if you murdered someone and know you're gong to be found guilty of it, you're better off killing everyone you need to because the Courts aren't going to throw you consecutive terms... you'll just serve 'em all at the same time.



F&F introduced an underground sport to the masses, which inevitably sparked a renewed interested in street racing. The older guys (and girls) that had been doing it safely for years suddenly found themselves surrounded by idiots doing burnouts on public streets with it's still crowded, people racing in busy city streets, and other stupid stunts. It's not just 18 year old kids with a brand new N on the back of the car that did this. It was basically anyone who found out about the "culture" and decided they wanted to be cool too without trying to understand or learn anything about respect and how you should or shouldn't act.

I know someone who was killed in what was officially deemed a "street racing incident," yet that doesn't stop me from running around the foothills in Langley or finding twisties up in the mountains. The difference is I know what can be considered dangerous to the public.

OMFG... somebody with >5 brain cells on this board. i was totally expecting a long lecture on the same redundant "dont wanna hear it, street racing is bad and kills people, period"

can we please sticky this or something? how about revive it back into the VOT forum for a few days, see how it does?

[syee]

Well, I've already said my opinions on it, and so I'm not going to reiterate anything. If you think that the penalties for street racing (or any type of racing for that matter) on public roads are wrong, then do something about it. Go talk to your local MP to have them reduce the penalties or make it legal.

However, you better have a pretty convincing argument. I've also noticed that nobody has provided a SOLUTION to the problem. The only argument I see is that because X number of people have died so it's not dangerous "relatively speaking". If you can think of a law that exempts an "experienced" person from the yahoos that are irresponsible, then be my guest and bring some public awareness to it and try to make it legal.

Laws are made to protect people, and you can't selectively apply the laws from person to person. A death is a death, and the government is looking out for everybody's best interests (i.e. reducing the number of deaths) when making laws against this. One death is already one too many, especially when you ask the family that lost their loved one. You guys obviously think there's way too much room for interpretation in the laws against this so you should speak up and do something about it instead of bitching on a forum where it falls on deaf ears (and is subject to mockery now since it's in fight club)

Anyways, I've said my piece, and I'm done with the debate. Again, if you guys don't like how things are being handled, do something about it by talking to someone who can make a change. Right now, it's only a discussion between a bunch of people on a forum and really isn't going to make a difference unless people can come up with good ideas that can be presented to people that can actually do something about it.

[Lomac]

What sort of solution do I propose? How about adjusting the penalty to fit the crime? I don't expect "experienced" drivers to be exempt from the same laws as less experienced ones, but I do expect the law to be just and fair. How about opening more venues that allows people itching to race to do it in a safe, legal manner? Instead of going to MRP once a week when it's nice, how about closing off a few streets in industrial parks with the participation of the RCMP and, after signing a waiver, go for a few drags? How about ignoring all of the NIMBY's who whine and complain about noise from a track that's miles away and build a track anyway?

No, talking on a forum wont change anything; however, it will help gather and hone ideas on what may work if and when it's ever presented.

[Lomac]

Thread moved back into VAC. Keep it clean, people.

[1983 Z28]

Oh wow, it's like I never left.

I'll weigh in later, while I'm bored in class.

[q0192837465]

Holy moly, have you ever heard of healthcare? I suppose you think thats free huh? There is no way we should be taxing the very things that equate to heathcare usage then right?

Your sig is correct...your ignorance is bliss.

Think about it. Health Care comes from the people's money. While maintaining a good relationship with alcohol/tobacco corporation leads to business opportunities onces those "politicians" get out of office.

Hmmm, lemme see, your health or my pocket? Tought choice.

[syee]

What sort of solution do I propose? How about adjusting the penalty to fit the crime? I don't expect "experienced" drivers to be exempt from the same laws as less experienced ones, but I do expect the law to be just and fair. How about opening more venues that allows people itching to race to do it in a safe, legal manner? Instead of going to MRP once a week when it's nice, how about closing off a few streets in industrial parks with the participation of the RCMP and, after signing a waiver, go for a few drags? How about ignoring all of the NIMBY's who whine and complain about noise from a track that's miles away and build a track anyway?

No, talking on a forum wont change anything; however, it will help gather and hone ideas on what may work if and when it's ever presented.

I'm in agreement with you there Lomac. There needs to be safe and legal venues to race. I've stated in my earlier arguments that I don't have a problem with track racing. I just don't want it done on roads where there's a chance of innocent people who had no intention of participating in the race getting hurt. (whether it be intentional or accidental)

Closing off streets with the participation of the police is a good idea, and to be honest, is the only SOLUTION I've seen in this thread. Every other response in here seems to just want to bash me for my opinions, yet not offer anything in terms of a solution.

Only issue I may see with that is funding for an event like this. I'm not sure if the public is cool with throwing their tax dollars to serve a special interest group. However, I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to get some kind of private/corporate sponsorship for this or charge some kind of admission?

[dustinb]

Ok, well here's my viewpoint on why so much money is being pumped into anti street racing, and fines are much higher then DUI.

Being allowed to drink is considered acceptable by our society, as is driving (Well except for some who see the car as a devil). For the most part, anyone can go out and drink whenever they want, same with driving - doesn't matter time of day, have a drink. You won't be shunned (unless total alcoholic). Now, lets say you get a ticket for DUI and lose your license. Socially, you are an outcast. Friends and family will be disgusted with what you did (with the odd exception to fucked up families). Like seriously, does anyone here really think driving while drunk is a good thing? I don't, and I think anyone that does it is a fucking moron.

NOW, take street racing. We can all say that anyone who street races is an idiot. And by that, I think most people are thinking about the scenario where two cars are endangering lives in a busy road etc, they are not thinking about the drives where you're cutting through corners on a back road of lake cowichan. The reason you are thinking is way because of its social acceptance. Even the people who are doing the danger street racing at high speeds on a busy street (pedestrian or traffic, doesn't matter), if they are caught street racing (without killing someone), they are NOT going to be held up to the same social ridicule as if they got a DUI. In fact, their friends might joke about it, how So and So lost his license because of street racing: "haha what an idiot, lol, it was so funny!!". If it was a DUI it would be "what were you thinking you moron? I can't believe I'm friends with you".

Because the social implications aren't even on the same page, if street racing didn't have the much larger fines (proportionally), then the number of incidents would just increase, and with that increase, so would the potential for another death.

Anyways, I hope that made some sort of sense...

[GLOW]

wasn't this moved to FC? it's been copied back here? :confused:

[pandalove]

LOL@PPL ARGUING FOR SOMETHING THEY ALL DID ATLEAST ONCE BEFORE

[KinseySS]

Isn't comparing Drinking and Driving and Street racing like comparing Apples and Oranges. I mean they both grow on trees and you could eat the both at the same time, maybe make a some kind of punch to drink. Plus there's all kinds of different apples and brands of oranges. Plus the different families like Pears and Grapefruit, sort of lost cousins or something. And when you smash them together it just makes a big mess then someone yells at you for making a big mess, so you lick it up clean as possible and make the dog/cat clean the rest.


.... wait, what was I say?!

[neverfastenough]

I think it all comes down to a few people ruining it for everyone sort of deal... its like anything, some stupid kids who cant drive drive 140 since they've only driven 50 in their mom's car before go and wrap themselves around a tree...everyone sees this and thinks that everyone who goes fast is going to do this

as for the drunk driving thing, i guess its not too comparable and i have no facts but from most of our points of view we figure it should be lesser of a penalty because most of us are good drivers and have a brain to make a good decision (most people are bad drivers and dumb as f@#$ it goes back up to my earlier point). What I think is screwed up is the fact that the law says that drunk driving is less punishable??? WTF is up with that?...so i have no real argument but those are my thoughts...

[BNR32_Coupe]

I didn't make this thread expecting that laws are going to change, come on people. Of course that's what we have MPs for, but even then it would take a lot of convincing to get an MP to even mention that our street racing penalties have been blown out of proportion. Lose your license for at least a year for endangering basically your own life? Simply put, that's essentially the same as driving without a seat belt.

I just wrote this thread after noticing people joking about these two cars that had an accident on knight and 33rd, and some people stepped in and joked that it was street racing. They're playing on the common stigma that people nowadays shun street racing much more than drunk driving. In addition, a young male got into an accident? Oh - street racing!

There's so much social stigma behind street racing that it's radically blown out of proportion IMO, and I just wanted to step out of the capitalistic anti-street racing bandwagon and shed some light on this topic.


Closing off streets with the participation of the police is a good idea, and to be honest, is the only SOLUTION I've seen in this thread. Every other response in here seems to just want to bash me for my opinions, yet not offer anything in terms of a solution.


I think that's a given, minus the police presence due to cost and manpower reasons.




Because the social implications aren't even on the same page, if street racing didn't have the much larger fines (proportionally), then the number of incidents would just increase, and with that increase, so would the potential for another death.


The anti street racing laws were passed recently though, within a couple years ago. The spike in SR related deaths was around early 2000. It goes to show after a bunch of people start dying, it wakes people up, and that was enough to really tone down the amount of SR incidences since then.

On top of the wake up call, expensive fines and losing your license for a year was doing fine after the spike in deaths. But to add insult to injury (no pun intended), they recently make it criminal as well!

[originalhypa]

On top of the wake up call, expensive fines and losing your license for a year was doing fine after the spike in deaths. But to add insult to injury (no pun intended), they recently make it criminal as well!

You can thank Harper and the conservatives for that one.
They run a hard nosed platform when it comes to crime, similar to what Bush was doing in the US. Put everyone in jail, and ask questions later.

I'm with you on this one though. It was not necessary to make street racing a federal offense, nor was it necessary to give the police the powers they have to pull licenses. The recent catastrophic events the police are responsible for are a good indication that these goofs don't need more power. They need to be reigned in, like pit bulls.

[Mugen EvOlutioN]

LOL@PPL ARGUING FOR SOMETHING THEY ALL DID ATLEAST ONCE BEFORE

werd


now dont fucking bullshit the bullshiter

[EvoLove]

Bump!

[originalhypa]

damn crazy bump evolove!

Anyway, I moved this out of fight club for nostalgia purposes. And to think, this wasn't even really old time RS.

[Manic!]

This is how we street race on the Island yo!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qogedvk1buU

[UnknownJinX]

This is how we street race on the Island yo!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qogedvk1buUI heard that the stretch of Blanshard near Uptown and Save On was used as a drag strip at midnight until a couple of years ago. It was actually organized by cops. They stopped because of an accident.

[prudz]

More info on electric CRX swap please

[tofu1413]

that CRX swap :megusta:

[Acura604]

/endthread


BC imposing tougher penalties for stunt driving, street racers - NEWS 1130 (http://www.news1130.com/2017/11/29/bc-imposing-tougher-penalties-stunt-driving-street-racers/)

NORTH VANCOUVER (NEWS 1130) – The provincial government is announcing a new crackdown on dangerous driving which could see those caught street racing lose their driving privileges for up to three years and not just a few days.

The new rules, which will take effect on December 1st, replace the existing 15-day penalty for street racing or stunt driving with much longer penalties, which would be determined by Road Safety BC on a case-by-case basis.

Most driving bans will be between three and 36 months under the new regulations and they’ll also apply to a broader range of offenses like excessive speeding, driving without due care and attention and other high-risk driving behaviours that present an immediate risk to the safety of the public.

Markita Kaulius with Families for Justice lost her daughter several years ago after a crash in Surrey. She’s happy with the government’s move.

“When people are driving erratically, speeding not paying attention to the road, that puts everyone at risk and we have seen far too many people lose their lives because of erratic and dangerous driving,” she says.

She’s pleased with the tougher penalties but admits they’re not always enforced. “That’s where a lot of our problems are lacking, is people have done this many times and continue to do so if our penalties are not enforced. If there’s no accountability or enforcement and they’ve been able to get away with it numerous times, they’ll continue to do so.”


Delta Police Chief Constable Neil Dubord tells NEWS 1130 says he, like many other police chiefs, are in favour of the incoming changes. “[We’re] supportive of this kind of penalty and review of people’s driving records based on their past driving history and whether or not they are frequent flyers in programs where they have risky driver behaviour.”

He’s hopeful the new law will be key to helping people make the best decision when behind the wheel. “When people actually lose their cars, there is an impact. And when you lose your car, say if it was up to three months or longer, at that point in time, I think it does have an impact and it will send a strong message. And it’s a small number of people who are actually displaying these kind of risky driving behaviours. Ninety per cent of the drivers are really good, but it’s always that 10 per cent are always causing us some grief.”

Dubord says street racing has an incredible effect on BC roads. “The types of behaviour that stunting have, dangerous driving have, street racing — all actually cause us to be concerned in relation to the amount of collisions they cause and to the level of anxiety they bring to other drivers on the road. We’ve all been on the highway before where we’re going 100 km/h and someone comes by you at 150 km/h, 160 km/h or 170 km/h and the level of startle that brings to you when someone comes by that fast — there’s an impact to everyone on the road.”

Victoria says police will still be allowed to immediately impound cars for up a minimum of seven days if drivers are caught either street racing or stunt driving.

[UnknownJinX]

/endthread


BC imposing tougher penalties for stunt driving, street racers - NEWS 1130 (http://www.news1130.com/2017/11/29/bc-imposing-tougher-penalties-stunt-driving-street-racers/)

NORTH VANCOUVER (NEWS 1130) – The provincial government is announcing a new crackdown on dangerous driving which could see those caught street racing lose their driving privileges for up to three years and not just a few days.

The new rules, which will take effect on December 1st, replace the existing 15-day penalty for street racing or stunt driving with much longer penalties, which would be determined by Road Safety BC on a case-by-case basis.

Most driving bans will be between three and 36 months under the new regulations and they’ll also apply to a broader range of offenses like excessive speeding, driving without due care and attention and other high-risk driving behaviours that present an immediate risk to the safety of the public.

Markita Kaulius with Families for Justice lost her daughter several years ago after a crash in Surrey. She’s happy with the government’s move.

“When people are driving erratically, speeding not paying attention to the road, that puts everyone at risk and we have seen far too many people lose their lives because of erratic and dangerous driving,” she says.

She’s pleased with the tougher penalties but admits they’re not always enforced. “That’s where a lot of our problems are lacking, is people have done this many times and continue to do so if our penalties are not enforced. If there’s no accountability or enforcement and they’ve been able to get away with it numerous times, they’ll continue to do so.”


Delta Police Chief Constable Neil Dubord tells NEWS 1130 says he, like many other police chiefs, are in favour of the incoming changes. “[We’re] supportive of this kind of penalty and review of people’s driving records based on their past driving history and whether or not they are frequent flyers in programs where they have risky driver behaviour.”

He’s hopeful the new law will be key to helping people make the best decision when behind the wheel. “When people actually lose their cars, there is an impact. And when you lose your car, say if it was up to three months or longer, at that point in time, I think it does have an impact and it will send a strong message. And it’s a small number of people who are actually displaying these kind of risky driving behaviours. Ninety per cent of the drivers are really good, but it’s always that 10 per cent are always causing us some grief.”

Dubord says street racing has an incredible effect on BC roads. “The types of behaviour that stunting have, dangerous driving have, street racing — all actually cause us to be concerned in relation to the amount of collisions they cause and to the level of anxiety they bring to other drivers on the road. We’ve all been on the highway before where we’re going 100 km/h and someone comes by you at 150 km/h, 160 km/h or 170 km/h and the level of startle that brings to you when someone comes by that fast — there’s an impact to everyone on the road.”

Victoria says police will still be allowed to immediately impound cars for up a minimum of seven days if drivers are caught either street racing or stunt driving.

Haven't street raced. I know my car is not designed for straight line acceleration anyway.

I remember there was a truck that wanted to race me for some reason. I just ignored it. I mean, beating a 1.3L naturally aspirated engine in a straight line is nothing to be proud of.

[Jmac]

Old thread is old, but that's some fucked up logic in the OP.

That is like arguing that it's safer to shoot yourself in the head than it is to drive drunk because only 561 people died from self-inflicted gun shot wounds in Canada (average 2003-2012, Globe & Mail) whereas 1451 people died in incidents related to impaired driving (2013, MADD.ca).

[twitchyzero]

I keep reading the thread title as 'street racing cafe'

thinking it's some new espot lined with battle gear, wangan midnight and initial D machines 4Head

[AstulzerRZD]

/endthread


BC imposing tougher penalties for stunt driving, street racers - NEWS 1130 (http://www.news1130.com/2017/11/29/bc-imposing-tougher-penalties-stunt-driving-street-racers/)

NORTH VANCOUVER (NEWS 1130) – The provincial government is announcing a new crackdown on dangerous driving which could see those caught street racing lose their driving privileges for up to three years and not just a few days.

The new rules, which will take effect on December 1st, replace the existing 15-day penalty for street racing or stunt driving with much longer penalties, which would be determined by Road Safety BC on a case-by-case basis.

Most driving bans will be between three and 36 months under the new regulations and they’ll also apply to a broader range of offenses like excessive speeding, driving without due care and attention and other high-risk driving behaviours that present an immediate risk to the safety of the public.

Markita Kaulius with Families for Justice lost her daughter several years ago after a crash in Surrey. She’s happy with the government’s move.

“When people are driving erratically, speeding not paying attention to the road, that puts everyone at risk and we have seen far too many people lose their lives because of erratic and dangerous driving,” she says.

She’s pleased with the tougher penalties but admits they’re not always enforced. “That’s where a lot of our problems are lacking, is people have done this many times and continue to do so if our penalties are not enforced. If there’s no accountability or enforcement and they’ve been able to get away with it numerous times, they’ll continue to do so.”


Delta Police Chief Constable Neil Dubord tells NEWS 1130 says he, like many other police chiefs, are in favour of the incoming changes. “[We’re] supportive of this kind of penalty and review of people’s driving records based on their past driving history and whether or not they are frequent flyers in programs where they have risky driver behaviour.”

He’s hopeful the new law will be key to helping people make the best decision when behind the wheel. “When people actually lose their cars, there is an impact. And when you lose your car, say if it was up to three months or longer, at that point in time, I think it does have an impact and it will send a strong message. And it’s a small number of people who are actually displaying these kind of risky driving behaviours. Ninety per cent of the drivers are really good, but it’s always that 10 per cent are always causing us some grief.”

Dubord says street racing has an incredible effect on BC roads. “The types of behaviour that stunting have, dangerous driving have, street racing — all actually cause us to be concerned in relation to the amount of collisions they cause and to the level of anxiety they bring to other drivers on the road. We’ve all been on the highway before where we’re going 100 km/h and someone comes by you at 150 km/h, 160 km/h or 170 km/h and the level of startle that brings to you when someone comes by that fast — there’s an impact to everyone on the road.”

Victoria says police will still be allowed to immediately impound cars for up a minimum of seven days if drivers are caught either street racing or stunt driving.

I don't think this would be as much of problem if drivers routinely checked their mirrors and stayed the out of the passing lane.

[J____]

The words street racing and safe do not go hand in hand. How can 2 young hot heads (most of which are new drivers with limited experience) with fast cars and no gear on public roads at night comparing the size of their dicks be safe? We've all been there, and now looking back, it was hardly "safe", compared to a track.

[conandoyle]

Sounds like what Jeremy Clarkson would say.