[Durrann1984]

HONG KONG - Jackie Chan's comments that freedom may not be good for China were taken out of context, his spokesman said Tuesday, while Facebook users and Chinese scholars condemned the veteran actor on the Internet in a spreading backlash.

The 55-year-old star of the "Rush Hour" action comedies caused a huge uproar after he told a business forum on Saturday that it may not be good for authoritarian China to become a free society.

"I'm not sure if it's good to have freedom or not," Chan said Saturday, adding freedoms in his native Hong Kong and Taiwan made those societies "chaotic."

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/090421/entertainment/film_jackie_chan

wtf? how come society gets so mad when others express their own opinions?

[q0192837465]

Just like how Miss Cali lost her crown. There's always a "RIGHT" answer.

[pandalove]

i kinda agree with what hes saying .... chinese people ...and i'm not saying all of them lack moral educated teaching (if u get what i mean :rolleyes: ... its not their fault tho .. its just they were brought up this way which turns them in to what they were now which probably was due to the hardships in the country for the last century .. since it was a pretty much you snooze you lose or a dog eat dog world and the poverty there... look at japan.. mannered, respectful and humble to people (not all too ofcourse) because that culture got a good manner norm that

[Wongtouski]

I hate all the freedom talk with China. If you've actually been there you know it's like mostly capitalist unless you do really stupid shit like walking around saying free tibet. I know China has a lot of problems in the eyes of the western world, but letting them run free all of a sudden would be chaos. Everything takes time.

[Ludepower]

This thread is going to get nasty....in before the lock.

[fetched]

While Facebook users and Chinese scholars condemned the actors

When did the opinions of Facebook users and exiled chinese traitors count?

[will068]

I hate all the freedom talk with China. If you've actually been there you know it's like mostly capitalist unless you do really stupid shit like walking around saying free tibet. I know China has a lot of problems in the eyes of the western world, but letting them run free all of a sudden would be chaos. Everything takes time.

:werd:

Capitalism under the cloak of the communism regime is the best way to implement western values in China.

[twitchyzero]

fuck Jackie Chan..he's always been humping the communist gov't legs anyways

[Orion]

i kinda agree with what hes saying .... chinese people ...and i'm not saying all of them lack moral educated teaching (if u get what i mean :rolleyes: ... its not their fault tho .. its just they were brought up this way which turns them in to what they were now which probably was due to the hardships in the country for the last century .. since it was a pretty much you snooze you lose or a dog eat dog world and the poverty there... look at japan.. mannered, respectful and humble to people (not all too ofcourse) because that culture got a good manner norm that

i'm with it as well but for a different reason. I just think the population to too vast to not be controlled...

[BNR32_Coupe]

you guys are racist, in before the lock

[Boostaholic]

lol I read the title and I was like "shit who would attack jackie chan?" just before (not physically) part.

[wouwou]

:werd:

Capitalism under the cloak of the communism regime is the best way to implement western values in China.

either that, or communism under the cloak of Capitalism, which got the US in a huge pile of crap right now.

So far, the Chinese one literally owns the American one by trillions of dollar.

:haha:

[asian_XL]

He fucked Ah Gill...[/thread]

[tool001]

who cares!

[SkinnyPupp]

I hate all the freedom talk with China. If you've actually been there you know it's like mostly capitalist unless you do really stupid shit like walking around saying free tibet. I know China has a lot of problems in the eyes of the western world, but letting them run free all of a sudden would be chaos. Everything takes time.
I don't think I would ever say this, but you just made the fucking stupidest post in Revscene's long history.

[Carl Johnson]

i'm with it as well but for a different reason. I just think the population to too vast to not be controlled...

lol wut?

that does not make any sense

the thing i hate is when you are in china you can't say shit about government like we do here, oh sure you can talk about it at home that's fine, but you say shit about government or party leaders in the public you are a dead man lolz

chinese people will get really uncomfortable and give you weird looks if you start talking about human rights and freedom of speech & information.

[wouwou]

lol wut?

that does not make any sense

the thing i hate is when you are in china you can't say shit about government like we do here, oh sure you can talk about it at home that's fine, but you say shit about government or party leaders in the public you are a dead man lolz

chinese people will get really uncomfortable and give you weird looks if you start talking about human rights and freedom of speech & information.

+1

one of the things I wish I can see improvement, over my life time

[Sid Vicious]

fuck china, what a shithole

nothing like a country with no free press, lack of due process, and ruthless oppression of political dissent

[DDauge]

fuck china, what a shithole

nothing like a country with no free press, lack of due process, and ruthless oppression of political dissent

I doubt whether any of you have actually been to China. last time I was in China was two years ago to visit a relative doing business there, (I'm Taiwanese), It is as free as it can be..

seriously, they couldnt careless you bad mouth the communist government or leaders, because words can't hurt..as long as you don't start burning tires or organize an uprising, theres no problem at all.

[Noir]

seriously, they couldnt careless you bad mouth the communist government or leaders, because words can't hurt..as long as you don't start burning tires or organize an uprising, theres no problem at all.

What about a peaceful protest? :)

[wouwou]

What about a peaceful protest? :)

I think you can do that, well except against certain topics

[Gt-R R34]

I doubt whether any of you have actually been to China. last time I was in China was two years ago to visit a relative doing business there, (I'm Taiwanese), It is as free as it can be..

seriously, they couldnt careless you bad mouth the communist government or leaders, because words can't hurt..as long as you don't start burning tires or organize an uprising, theres no problem at all.

"free as it can be" so you're saying this is the best it can be?

No independent media? Internet that is guarded. Restricted sites. I don't know. Granted, they are far better off then say 20 years ago but still.

But OP, jackie chan is a DUMB ASS. Learn to speak intellectually when you're upon stage with BUSINESS leaders.

[Orion]

lol wut?

that does not make any sense

the thing i hate is when you are in china you can't say shit about government like we do here, oh sure you can talk about it at home that's fine, but you say shit about government or party leaders in the public you are a dead man lolz

chinese people will get really uncomfortable and give you weird looks if you start talking about human rights and freedom of speech & information.

i just mean... the communist is like rules and regulation... take that away and it'll be like the movie The Mist...

[DDauge]

"free as it can be" so you're saying this is the best it can be?

No independent media? Internet that is guarded. Restricted sites. I don't know. Granted, they are far better off then say 20 years ago but still.



To be honest, I didnt' really feel "restricted" while browsing websites in China...

you can go to wikipedia (English), CNN, News website from Taiwan, Japan, etc, yahoo, google..or even porn sites. It's true if you try to type up sites that contain extreme violence or porn or fa lung gong then it will not be accessible, but overall I dont' find or feel it to be "restricted"

I also spoken freely about the communist and Taiwan's democratic government with the workers in my relative's company and seriously, theres no problem..even if you talk about communist and democracy in a Starbucks in Beijing, nobody really gives a damn.

You gotta give the Americans credit for painting China as a drepressed, restricted and evil country when it really is as capitalist as it can be.

[Sid Vicious]

I doubt whether any of you have actually been to China. last time I was in China was two years ago to visit a relative doing business there, (I'm Taiwanese), It is as free as it can be..

seriously, they couldnt careless you bad mouth the communist government or leaders, because words can't hurt..as long as you don't start burning tires or organize an uprising, theres no problem at all.


oh wow. i actually have been to china when i was a child.
i've never been to darfur or zimbabewe but judging from news sources, i can call a shithole when i see a shitole

if the communist government really didn't care about people badmouthing the government, why did they have to have a application process for protests during the olympics?
you know tiananmen square was only 20 years ago?

[El Bastardo]

Chinese Communism isn't real Communism.

[DDauge]

oh wow. i actually have been to china when i was a child.
i've never been to darfur or zimbabewe but judging from news sources, i can call a shithole when i see a shitole

if the communist government really didn't care about people badmouthing the government, why did they have to have a application process for protests during the olympics?
you know tiananmen square was only 20 years ago?



Trust me, I probably know China than most of the people on this forum.
My relative has been working and living in China for a decade and is married with a Chinese wife...I have worked for him also in his company in Shanghai before and most of my colleagues were Chinese locals, I also hang out with foreign expats and oversea Chinese in Shanghai, and we just laugh at how the American media protraits China. The American media just wanted to make enemies like they always do, so that American public shifts their attention from the imcompetency of their government to the so called "human rights" problem in China, which is totally irrelavent to them. Similiar to how the Americans media used to smear the Japanese, then the Russians, then they hoaxed the whole "weapon of mass destruction" thing when they wanted to invade Iraq for oil. To me the biggest evil in this world is none other than the USA, too bad the majority of Canadians are too ignorant to realize it.

The Tiananmen event "just" 20 years ago. But let me get this straight, 20 years is not "just" for China, 20 years in China is like 100 years in the West. I still remember reading a British news paper in China saying that Shanghai is so fast paced, that living for one year in China is like living for 4-5 years in England.

I couldnt agree more.

[DDauge]

and by the way, since you mentioned having applications to protest in the Beijing Olympics, I feel its totally necessary for the event and for the people..You have no idea how violent the seperatists will protest if security wasn't in place.

Same thing for the Vancouver winter games..you think the police wont' arrest you if you tried protesting without permission?

[wouwou]

oh wow. i actually have been to china when i was a child.
i've never been to darfur or zimbabewe but judging from news sources, i can call a shithole when i see a shitole

if the communist government really didn't care about people badmouthing the government, why did they have to have a application process for protests during the olympics?
you know tiananmen square was only 20 years ago?
It is common practice to apply for protests in any country, no?

That's pretty standard, say in HK. I have never been to one in Canada though

[El Bastardo]

But let me get this straight, 20 years is not "just" for China, 20 years in China is like 100 years in the West. I still remember reading a British news paper in China saying that Shanghai is so fast paced, that living for one year in China is like living for 4-5 years in England.




Yes, but perception is everything. And to the common person in the west China is still the same oppressive place it was 20 years ago. Hearing stories about censored internet, human rights violations, and suppressed personal freedoms is an easy pill to swallow when you see very little changing (in the public eye). A free Tibet, Falun Dafa, lead painted toys, and tainted milk products are what we hear because.. well..


....well why is that? Why is it that we mostly only hear about the negatives? Certainly there must be positives, right? Where are they? Where are the warm and fuzzies I should get about China while watching the evening news? More of this "smear campaign" you accuse the world's media of running?


China could be populated by cancer curing doves that shit diamonds and ride on rainbows but unless people see that in the media they're not going to pay any attention to it. Thats just the world we live in.



Queue CivicBlues in 3....2.....

[DDauge]

Yes, but perception is everything. And to the common person in the west China is still the same oppressive place it was 20 years ago. Hearing stories about censored internet, human rights violations, and suppressed personal freedoms is an easy pill to swallow when you see very little changing (in the public eye). A free Tibet, Falun Dafa, lead painted toys, and tainted milk products are what we hear because.. well..


....well why is that? Why is it that we mostly only hear about the negatives? Certainly there must be positives, right? Where are they? Where are the warm and fuzzies I should get about China while watching the evening news? More of this "smear campaign" you accuse the world's media of running?


China could be populated by cancer curing doves that shit diamonds and ride on rainbows but unless people see that in the media they're not going to pay any attention to it. Thats just the world we live in.



Queue CivicBlues in 3....2.....


You are very right about this, how people percept has alot to do with how the media portraits.

As to why the Western media seems to only publicize negative news, I have no idea. Maybe they do not want to accept the fact that China is already one powerful nation that competes on the same ground with any Western country? or maybe its politically correct to have an enemy in the East? who knows.

I think it the same as how the Chinese people percepts the western people just 200 years ago. Back then the Chinese thought the westerners were bunch of hairy barbarians who knew no manner (beacuse they eat with knives and forks which are barbaric) had no culture, produce inferior products (ceramic wares, silk and tea) and were only useful at making toys (techonologies which the Chinese didn't think was useful. ie: telescope, globe map, mechanical clocks and etc). It was only until the Chinese went to war with Britain that they were totally shocked and realized they were so backward.

Maybe time is the only solution to ignorance.

[RacePace]

Chinese Communism isn't real Communism.

none of the communist countries are real communism

[dna82]

You are very right about this, how people percept has alot to do with how the media portraits.

As to why the Western media seems to only publicize negative news, I have no idea. Maybe they do not want to accept the fact that China is already one powerful nation that competes on the same ground with any Western country? or maybe its politically correct to have an enemy in the East? who knows.

I think it the same as how the Chinese people percepts the western people just 200 years ago. Back then the Chinese thought the westerners were bunch of hairy barbarians who knew no manner (beacuse they eat with knives and forks which are barbaric) had no culture, produce inferior products (ceramic wares, silk and tea) and were only useful at making toys (techonologies which the Chinese didn't think was useful. ie: telescope, globe map, mechanical clocks and etc). It was only until the Chinese went to war with Britain that they were totally shocked and realized they were so backward.

Maybe time is the only solution to ignorance.

give me a fuckin break.
western media ONLY publishes bad news about everyone, why do you feel as if China is being singled out? if you want to build a good reputation, STOP FUCKING UP.
and also, all those who chant the same tired ass motto ' oh, i was in china before i had no problems shopping, walking, travelling, talking etcetcetc.' well, that's because you aren't 95% of the FUCKIN POPULATION WHO LIVES ON LESS THEN 10USD A DAY.

p.s jackie chan is a dirty old bastard and also an idiot apparently.

[q0192837465]

p.s jackie chan is a dirty old bastard and also an idiot apparently.

I whole-heartedly agree. But if u can do it with every girl, why wouldnt u?

[wouwou]

p.s jackie chan is a dirty old bastard and also an idiot apparently.

who also fucks most of the pretty girls in HK entertainment world.

His one year's worth of fucking puts Edison to shame.

[Ludepower]

and also, all those who chant the same tired ass motto ' oh, i was in china before i had no problems shopping, walking, travelling, talking etcetcetc.' well, that's because you aren't 95% of the FUCKIN POPULATION WHO LIVES ON LESS THEN 10USD A DAY.


x2

[impactX]

It is common practice to apply for protests in any country, no?

That's pretty standard, say in HK. I have never been to one in Canada though

LOL cos HK is a political shithole as well. You don't have to be granted permission for peaceful protest in Canada. Look at the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms:

2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:

(a) freedom of conscience and religion; (China: Nope)
(b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication; (China: Nope)
(c) freedom of peaceful assembly; (China: Nope) and
(d) freedom of association. (China: as long as you are associating with the Communist Party of China)

[SkinnyPupp]

I can't believe the level of idiocy being displayed here. Incredible. Anyone who says China is "fine" or "good as can be" has either

-Never been there
-Have been there, but fooled by the fakeness of it

Either way, you are a fool for thinking China is anything other than a fucking shithole now that it has been raped of all culture and identity by the corrupt communist regime. The people no longer have any culture, they are just a shell of a culture. Everyone is just brainwashed zombies who simply don't know any better. They follow what the communists say, and they no longer value their own lives.

It's a fucked up situation, and you need to open your eyes if you think there is nothing wrong with that place.

Add by the way, it is legal to protest in Hong Kong. The people still have rights here, and a few of them are fighting for it. It's going to be a long 40 years.

[Sid Vicious]

LOL cos HK is a political shithole as well. You don't have to be granted permission for peaceful protest in Canada. Look at the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms:

2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:

(a) freedom of conscience and religion; (China: Nope)
(b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication; (China: Nope)
(c) freedom of peaceful assembly; (China: Nope) and
(d) freedom of association. (China: as long as you are associating with the Communist Party of China)

I can't believe the level of idiocy being displayed here. Incredible. Anyone who says China is "fine" or "good as can be" has either

-Never been there
-Have been there, but fooled by the fakeness of it

Either way, you are a fool for thinking China is anything other than a fucking shithole now that it has been raped of all culture and identity by the corrupt communist regime. The people no longer have any culture, they are just a shell of a culture. Everyone is just brainwashed zombies who simply don't know any better. They follow what the communists say, and they no longer value their own lives.

It's a fucked up situation, and you need to open your eyes if you think there is nothing wrong with that place.

Add by the way, it is legal to protest in Hong Kong. The people still have rights here, and a few of them are fighting for it. It's going to be a long 40 years.


thank you

people who think that china doesn't torture dissenters, and violates human rights and in general is a shithole is burying their head in the sand, or an idiot.

[DDauge]

give me a fuckin break.

and also, all those who chant the same tired ass motto ' oh, i was in china before i had no problems shopping, walking, travelling, talking etcetcetc.' well, that's because you aren't 95% of the FUCKIN POPULATION WHO LIVES ON LESS THEN 10USD A DAY.


uhh...you know, 80% of the population now are probably grateful they have 10USD per day to spend...20 years ago they probably didnt even have 1USD per day to spend.

And its just ironic to me that US always talk about human right when they are pretty much doing the samething (touture) to the Iraqis as the Chinese government has done to Fa Lun gong.. And how about slavery? at least the Chinese didnt go to Africa and enslaved the Africans and sold them as commodities. After enslaving the blacks and colonialized most parts of the world the west wants to talk about human rights now? no fucking way.

[SkinnyPupp]

uhh...you know, 80% of the population now are probably grateful they have 10USD per day to spend...20 years ago they probably didnt even have 1USD per day to spend.
So you're saying that the population should be grateful when a regime takes their country, fucks it up beyond belief, commiting a genocide on a scale that has never been seen before, killing almost as many of their own citizens as Hitler killed Jews, taking away their culture and their identity, bringing them down to the level where they "didn't even have 1USD per day to spend", because they can now "have 10USD per day to spend"?

That is some fucked up logic right there.

[El Bastardo]

And how about slavery? at least the Chinese didnt go to Africa and enslaved the Africans and sold them as commodities. After enslaving the blacks and colonialized most parts of the world the west wants to talk about human rights now? no fucking way.



That was hundreds of years ago. The entire world was in that mindset. No one saw England, France, Holland, the United States, of B.N.A as being "fucked up" and "backward" because everyone was trading in slaves.


The major flaw to this argument is the apartheid rule in South Africa. In the 70s and 80s they were looked upon in disgust by the international community and by their own people. They did something about it and over the last 20 years the country has been on the road to recovery.

Yes, its a shithole. Yes, the 6:1 exchange rate with CAD makes them poor as fuck, but its still a step in the right direction. They caught up with the rest of the globe as far as human rights were concerned.

[DDauge]

So you're saying that the population should be grateful when a regime takes their country, fucks it up beyond belief, commiting a genocide on a scale that has never been seen before, killing almost as many of their own citizens as Hitler killed Jews, taking away their culture and their identity, bringing them down to the level where they "didn't even have 1USD per day to spend", because they can now "have 10USD per day to spend"?

That is some fucked up logic right there.


so what u suggest to be done with it?

[Mancini]

Tiananmen Square

[oinkoinkpig]

Why can't we all just be grateful that we live in Canada and not in China (mainland)...

[impactX]

so what u suggest to be done with it?

Admitting the fault in the Cultural Revolution, Great Leap Forward, and the Tienanmen Square slaughtering would be a good start.

[twitchyzero]

typical china thread with blind patriotism

[El Bastardo]

so what u suggest to be done with it?


Find ways to become a progressive society.

A Chinese law enforcement agency has been using a training manual which advises officers on how to use violence without leaving incriminating evidence behind.

...

The book was reportedly designed as a training guide for the Chengguan, a type of police force that is charged with targeting anyone it feels is disrupting the peace, ridding China's cities of illegal street hawkers and unlicensed taxi cabs, and checking permits.

...

Zhao Yang, a junior officer in Nanjing told the Southern Metropolis Daily: "These things used to be spread by word of mouth, but now they're out in the open. Things like how to protect yourself and how to hit people."




http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/5199325/Chinese-police-training-manual-offers-tips-on-the-best-way-to-beat-up-offenders.html




So for all the people who complain about the VPD and love China just be glad that the street vendors selling their junk on the corner of Robson and Burrard don't have to worry about being beaten by people who have been taught how to do it the proper way.

[DDauge]

Admitting the fault in the Cultural Revolution, Great Leap Forward, and the Tienanmen Square slaughtering would be a good start.

whoa chill..I'm not even from China, i dislike all of above as much as u do.
I'm just pointing out the usual misconceptions that people have.

[SkinnyPupp]

whoa chill..I'm not even from China, i dislike all of above as much as u do.
I'm just pointing out the usual misconceptions that people have.
Considering your avatar is the Taiwanese flag, you of all people should be the most shocked and offended by all this idiotic pro-PRC bullshit. Your country was founded by people who were fleeing the most severe type of persecution imaginable, right after defending their country against the Japanese for years. Unspeakable things would have happened to them if caught, and they are still being treated like enemies to this day. Even the UN doesn't officially recognize them, and they can't even wave their own country's flag at international sports events.

If you are okay with that, there is seriously something wrong with you. If I heard the same thing coming from a mainlander, I would dismiss it due to the fact that they are essentially brainwashed. It's not their fault that they are ignorant to their country's lies. But of all people, you should be the most strongly against the PRC compared to the rest of us.

That is why I am so shocked and dismayed by your ludicrous posts in this thread. Give your head a shake, do some learning. You owe it to your ancestors.

[124Y]

I've actually done a study on freedom of the press in China last semester and the main reason why the Communist government is not allowing that much freedom is for "social and economical stability.":confused:

[124Y]

Considering your avatar is the Taiwanese flag, you of all people should be the most shocked and offended by all this idiotic pro-PRC bullshit. Your country was founded by people who were fleeing the most severe type of persecution imaginable, right after defending their country against the Japanese for years. Unspeakable things would have happened to them if caught, and they are still being treated like enemies to this day. Even the UN doesn't officially recognize them, and they can't even wave their own country's flag at international sports events.

If you are okay with that, there is seriously something wrong with you. If I heard the same thing coming from a mainlander, I would dismiss it due to the fact that they are essentially brainwashed. It's not their fault that they are ignorant to their country's lies. But of all people, you should be the most strongly against the PRC compared to the rest of us.

That is why I am so shocked and dismayed by your ludicrous posts in this thread. Give your head a shake, do some learning. You owe it to your ancestors.

Well said!:thumbsup:

[Meowjin]

there total dismantlement of the orthodox church in china pisses me off.

saint sofia's church in harbin comes to mind. Also the one built by saint john maximovitch in shanghei too.

lots of persecution to orthodox christians not to sure about the other ones.

[Meowjin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKfH3k_dcdo

bullshit cultural revolution... look at the interior, whats the point of plastering everything up, Just burn it. The church is no longer a church the chinese are profiting off our religion by calling it a tourist attraction.

[asian_XL]

LOL...just read the news...he dissed the singaporean today

"why they can't chew gum? because when they chew gum, they stick it under the table, no discipline no manner...you know why americans can chew gum? they have discipline"

:lol

[SkinnyPupp]

there total dismantlement of the orthodox church in china pisses me off.

saint sofia's church in harbin comes to mind. Also the one built by saint john maximovitch in shanghei too.

lots of persecution to orthodox christians not to sure about the other ones.
That's only the least of it. They are basically bleaching the entire country of its culture. If you aren't a pro communist that practices religion just how they want you to, you are going to be persecuted. At different severities of course, depending on how much they hate you.

[Carl Johnson]

I've actually done a study on freedom of the press in China last semester and the main reason why the Communist government is not allowing that much freedom is for "social and economical stability.":confused:

If you think about how fast the Chinese economy has grown in the last decades, look no further than the migrant workers who are building these skyscrapers in cities. The government knows they can't let another June 4th happen again so it's all about keeping an politically unstable but economically booming society "stable".

Stability is about keeping people ignorant and to be inline with the party.

[asahai69]

holy fuck. jackie chan is 55?

[q0192837465]

holy fuck. jackie chan is 55?

he's old man, but u gotta give it to him at 55, he can still make some pretty good action movies

[zuN]

he's old man, but u gotta give it to him at 55, he can still make some pretty good action movies

His new movie Shinjuku Incident looks good. You don't see Japanese and Chinese mixed in one movie that often.

qXTIGZbXFYk

[Ludepower]

His new movie Shinjuku Incident looks good. You don't see Japanese and Chinese mixed in one movie that often.

qXTIGZbXFYk

WoW...i wanna watch...Jackie Chan as a serious actor? Triads vs Yakuza? Interesting....

[asahai69]

he's old man, but u gotta give it to him at 55, he can still make some pretty good action movies

fuck. i cant move like him and im 23!

[SkinnyPupp]

LOL now this thread is about Jackie Chan's action movies?

[Jason00S2000]

99% of China is a backwards, corrupt shithole and I would never live there.


Why do you think rich chinese people come here and love the freedom?

[DDauge]

Considering your avatar is the Taiwanese flag, you of all people should be the most shocked and offended by all this idiotic pro-PRC bullshit. Your country was founded by people who were fleeing the most severe type of persecution imaginable, right after defending their country against the Japanese for years. Unspeakable things would have happened to them if caught, and they are still being treated like enemies to this day. Even the UN doesn't officially recognize them, and they can't even wave their own country's flag at international sports events.

If you are okay with that, there is seriously something wrong with you. If I heard the same thing coming from a mainlander, I would dismiss it due to the fact that they are essentially brainwashed. It's not their fault that they are ignorant to their country's lies. But of all people, you should be the most strongly against the PRC compared to the rest of us.

That is why I am so shocked and dismayed by your ludicrous posts in this thread. Give your head a shake, do some learning. You owe it to your ancestors.

You gotta be kidding me.

I am from Taiwan so I call myself Taiwanese, but you do know your so called " Taiwanese flag" is the Flag of the Republic of China, the first democracy country in Asia founded by Dr. Sun Yat Sen?

And you do know the official name of Taiwan is "Republic of China", whereas China's official name is "The people's Republic of China"?
Essentially both Taiwan and China are of one ethinicity, just different political views..

[fetched]

^
Don't bother with them, Skinny just proved that he doesn't know shit about the Chinese civil war which was the whole foundation of his argument. lulz :haha:

[DDauge]

^
yea I am just surprised there are people (especially Chinese or Taiwanese) that
dont understand Taiwan and China are seperated by the Chinese Civil War..and to this date it still hasn't officially ended, and therefore technically there are two "Chinas" that exists on this world ..much like North and South korea, Taiwan is just the name of the province.

[SkinnyPupp]

You gotta be kidding me.

I am from Taiwan so I call myself Taiwanese, but you do know your so called " Taiwanese flag" is the Flag of the Republic of China, the first democracy country in Asia founded by Dr. Sun Yat Sen?

And you do know the official name of Taiwan is "Republic of China", whereas China's official name is "The people's Republic of China"?
Essentially both Taiwan and China are of one ethinicity, just different political views..
Do you even know the difference between the "Republic of China" and the "People's Republic of China" you dumb cunt? I called it Taiwan, big deal. My point still stands: You're an ignorant moron who knows nothing about his own country's history, and you should be ashamed of yourself. Trust me that I know more about China's history than you do. Nobody brought up ethnicity until you did, which proves that you don't know what I am talking about, and thus you are just an idiot. So stop replying to this thread, and go read a book.

[goo3]

I've actually done a study on freedom of the press in China last semester and the main reason why the Communist government is not allowing that much freedom is for "social and economical stability.":confused:

"stability" also means preservation of power. Basically, when you control the military, the only way you can lose power is if millions of ppl force you out.

I guess in China, public opinion gets amplified in either direction cuz of the population size so controlling the press is a huge tool for the govt. Giving this up is like inviting dissent on your ass.

[fetched]

I'm sure your just mad because instead of catching on to hk's new china money train, you failed and had to start a cosmetic website to make some money. It's okay, explore the prosperous China and you will see vast opportunities which I'm sure will change your China mentality.
Westerners go China whether back packing to the country side or living luxuriously in one of many major cities in China will always tell you that people in China aren't what they see on TV. They are happy, vibrant, hard working just like you and I. And democracy isn't praised nor hated in China, it's just viewed as a standard of governing most governments use. No one really gives a shit about democracy in China, but everyone knows one day democracy will come which won't necessarily save them from the evil communism you people insist, but rather a change most developing countries evolve into.

[SkinnyPupp]

I'm sure your just mad because instead of catching on to hk's new china money train, you failed and had to start a cosmetic website to make some money. It's okay, explore the prosperous China and you will see vast opportunities which I'm sure will change your China mentality.
Westerners go China whether back packing to the country side or living luxuriously in one of many major cities in China will always tell you that people in China aren't what they see on TV. They are happy, vibrant, hard working just like you and I. And democracy isn't praised nor hated in China, it's just viewed as a standard of governing most governments use. No one really gives a shit about democracy in China, but everyone knows one day democracy will come which won't necessarily save them from the evil communism you people insist, but rather a change most developing countries evolve into.
Wow, you have sunk RS to a new level of stupidity. After 12 years or so, that's quite an accomplishment.

Either that, or you are just an ignorant mainland fool. Which is fine, I have nothing against ignorant fools from China. There is nothing wrong with being ignorant - it just means that they're brainwashed and thus can't possibly know any better. The communists have gone to great lengths to make sure all of their people think the same way.

And with you saying things like "prosperous china" and "money train" and "no one really gives a shit about democracy in China" and "democracy will come one day", you sound exactly the same as about 1 billion other brainwashed fools in China.

So I don't hate you. I feel sorry for you. But hopefully you will learn. Because if you don't learn to the contrary of what you have been brainwashed to think, you will have gone from being "ignorant" which is fine, to being "a fucking moron" which isn't.

[misteranswer]

I've actually done a study on freedom of the press in China last semester and the main reason why the Communist government is not allowing that much freedom is for "social and economical stability.":confused:

Well, from what I've heard, the Chinese government believes rushing democracy would not be good for the economy. I think the prime example they look at is India. They've had a democracy for over 50 years and well, in terms of infrastructure, it's a bigger shithole than China.

[fetched]

Wow, you have sunk RS to a new level of stupidity. After 12 years or so, that's quite an accomplishment.

Either that, or you are just an ignorant mainland fool. Which is fine, I have nothing against ignorant fools from China. There is nothing wrong with being ignorant - it just means that they're brainwashed and thus can't possibly know any better. The communists have gone to great lengths to make sure all of their people think the same way.

And with you saying things like "prosperous china" and "money train" and "no one really gives a shit about democracy in China" and "democracy will come one day", you sound exactly the same as about 1 billion other brainwashed fools in China.

So I don't hate you. I feel sorry for you. But hopefully you will learn. Because if you don't learn to the contrary of what you have been brainwashed to think, you will have gone from being "ignorant" which is fine, to being "a fucking moron" which isn't.

blah blah blah, calling me brainwashed, calling me a fool, feeling sorry for me. thats just a typical westernized view on the Chinese . Thinking we're fucking suffering and shit, need democracy to save us. *laugh*
Here's a thought, maybe read more books on the chinese civil war before making any assumptions on the whole taiwanese government. Maybe start making some factual points before bashing China just like any other "FOOL" that bashes China on here. Maybe live in China for 2 years and look back on this and think to yourself "i was a dumb bitch", you can be one of millions of hongers that went to China after 97 with the expectation of going to a shit hole but finding themselves loving the country, and being OKAY with the government
You don't even have a clue on what brain washing means. We still have opinions on the government that are negative, but it seems like people's negativity on here are not based on what they've seen, rather based on what they've heard and read.
There is a difference between influence and brainwash my dumb friend. And please think before you talk by calling 1 billion people brainwashed fools, are you fucking 12? Keep selling your cosmetics you low life.
Skinnypup you've truly shown me you have no knowledge whatsoever about China, even less than the infamous DNA82. As I've said earlier, developing countries will evolve into democracy over time. While the western world's families have their houses, cars and stable income, the Chinese are working hard to make a living, purchase their first home, send their kids to a proper school , etc etc. Politics only matters when there are economical issues.
The whole problem with this thread is, people that shouldn't give a damn, gives a damn. People that actually should give a damn (China Citizens) don't really care that much.

[Sid Vicious]

blah blah blah, calling me brainwashed, calling me a fool, feeling sorry for me. thats just a typical westernized view on the Chinese . Thinking we're fucking suffering and shit, need democracy to save us. *laugh*
Here's a thought, maybe read more books on the chinese civil war before making any assumptions on the whole taiwanese government. Maybe start making some factual points before bashing China just like any other "FOOL" that bashes China on here. Maybe live in China for 2 years and look back on this and think to yourself "i was a dumb bitch", you can be one of millions of hongers that went to China after 97 with the expectation of going to a shit hole but finding themselves loving the country.
You don't even have a clue on what brain washing means. We still have opinions on the government that are negative, but it seems like people's negativity on here are not based on what they've seen, rather based on what they've heard.
There is a difference between influence and brainwash my dumb friend. And please think before you talk by calling 1 billion people brainwashed fools, are you fucking 12? Keep selling your cosmetics you low life.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51PV9qAqT%2BL._SL500_AA249_.gif

I guess it's your decision to live in a country with a lack of due process, censored media that regularly executes people for disagreeing with the government. But it's okay, i'm sure there were millions of people living under stalin or hitler that didn't care what the state was doing to it's own people

[fetched]

Your thing on lack of due process? So give me some examples.
I agree with you on the censored media, but c'mon, execute people? You seriously going to believe that? Where did you get that information from? CNN? FOX?
There are a lot protest on the corruption currently in China and you see everyday officials getting arrested and etc. It's getting better.
Hitler = The Current China. Nice, that comment just made everything you've said until now the least credible in this thread.

[Meowjin]

Your thing on lack of due process? So give me some examples.
I agree with you on the censored media, but c'mon, execute people? You seriously going to believe that? Where did you get that information from? CNN? FOX?
There are a lot protest on the corruption currently in China and you see everyday officials getting arrested and etc. It's getting better.
Hitler = The Current China. Nice, that comment just made everything you've said until now the least credible in this thread.


http://www.asianamericans.com/TiananmenSquareJune51989.jpg

[fetched]

http://attendingtheworld.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/waterboarding.jpg

Democracy

Yes Yes, bring up the TianAnMen Square incident again. China is a very different country today, as most people would know if they went there.

[El Bastardo]

The difference with waterboarding is; its being used on foreign terrorist suspects to prevent further attacks on US (or US allies) soil.

Not to quell dissidents who speak out against the glory and the power of the state.

[fetched]

USA is the mascot of democracy. So they are spreading democracy by denying them the right to a lawyer?, which is one of the core rights every democracy has?. They went to 2 dictatorship countries only to do the same?:haha: executing and torturing fall in the same category, some would say torturing is worse. The US probably murdered thousands of innocent people to spread democracy at this time and age(according to the media, hence "probably"), don't you think it has tremendous similarities to the cultural revolution in China 50 years ago?

[Meowjin]

http://attendingtheworld.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/waterboarding.jpg

Democracy

Yes Yes, bring up the TianAnMen Square incident again. China is a very different country today, as most people would know if they went there.

the difference is im not american dipshit.

[fetched]

If up to this point you still don't know what we're talking about, I'll tell you. We are talking about spreading democracy in China. Democracy is without borders amirite?
dipshit?:haha:
But anyways, since you wanna call me names.
So.....
Your not American, so you don't care.
Are you Chinese then?

[El Bastardo]

USA is the mascot of democracy. So they are spreading democracy by denying them the right to a lawyer?, which is one of the core rights every democracy has?. They went to 2 dictatorship countries only to do the same? executing and torturing fall in the same category, some would say torturing is worse. The US probably murdered thousands of innocent people to spread democracy at this time and age(according to the media, hence "probably"), don't you think it has tremendous similarities to the cultural revolution in China 50 years ago?



Woah, clearly you're not too familiar with 'due process' as these were terrorist suspects who fell out of the guise of that particular part of the law. Terror suspects who were being held out side of the United Nations' realm of authority. The very same United Nations that denies Taiwan the right to exist on the world stage thanks to China and her actions. I know you're not a fan

And you should read the point I was making throughout the entire thread and put it into context with that last post I made:

I was stating that these were enemies of the USA and it's allies, not citizens who are afforded incontestable rights. Different rules apply.
Problems with China I were referencing were the treatment of it's own nationals.

[impactX]

1) Fact: There are people who want democracy in China. Such people are constantly stalked by police. Ironically, some people are actually real socialists, who want the government to take care of its people better. Their discussion forum gets shut down until they could find a more "proper" name so it doesn't offend the Communist Government. The TV programme that talked about this was done by TVB and not CNN and I am glad that TVB is not self-censoring.
My comment: How insecure can the communist government be?

2) Fact: China is still a backward country in terms of human right. Example: Lands get seized from citizens without decent compensation.
My comment: I don't think people are asking for universal suffrage in terms of choosing a political party as China's government. China already admitted that it will NEVER happen and the Communist Party will be the only party in China. What people are asking for is that they can criticize the government without repercussion (such as being tried for Treason, being followed and having their properties seized). There's so much corruption in every level of the Chinese government that there's not much accountability when the people don't get to vote.

Of course it's easy for you to sit in front of monitor in CANADA and praise about how well you could have it in China. You can shit on the Canadian Government all night long with no fear about the RCMP or CSIS knocking on your door (providing that you are not planning a terrorist attack.) In fact#1 above, the left-wing socialists got their computers seized for hosting a socialist forum.

3) Fact: China always gets pissed when the Japanese PM goes and visit the war shrine.
My comment: Why should China get pissed? They are essentially doing the same shit. The Japanese never admitted their wrongdoings during WWII in China, just like how China never admitted their wrongdoings during the Cultural Revolution, Great Leap Forward and the Tienanmen Square murdering.

I would respect the current leaders of China if they actually come out and admit their mistakes. And no, none of this is related to "oh go visit China and look at how prosperous it is!" And don't get me started with the children with no arms and legs controlled by the mobs to beg for money... or the children selling flowers... and last but not least, the thieves (more like robbers) who are HIV-positive threatening you with a syringe of his blood. It made walking along Main and Hastings feel like a walk in the park.

Here's a question for you: Since you were from the Mainland China, what connections did you have to use to get out of China? It would be nice to see what you needed to do to achieve that.

[SkinnyPupp]

People that actually should give a damn (China Citizens) don't really care that much.
Because they can't. You ignorant fuck.

That's all I am going to say to you.

[DDauge]

Do you even know the difference between the "Republic of China" and the "People's Republic of China" you dumb cunt? I called it Taiwan, big deal. My point still stands: You're an ignorant moron who knows nothing about his own country's history, and you should be ashamed of yourself. Trust me that I know more about China's history than you do. Nobody brought up ethnicity until you did, which proves that you don't know what I am talking about, and thus you are just an idiot. So stop replying to this thread, and go read a book.

Uhh...of course I know the difference between the Republic of China (Taiwan) and the PRC..both my grand parents and my aunt were civil servants of the Republic of China(Taiwan), and they will tell you anyday they are Chinese rather than Taiwanese...Not every citizen of Taiwan wants Taiwan independency, just like not all Quebecans wants to get out of Canada..

fact is there are two Chinas on the face of this earth right now, once is a democratic one (Taiwan), one isn't (PRC) but both are ecnomically prospering.

And you, I don't see you having any knowledge of history rather than words like fuck or shit or ignorant. Seems to me you cant even complete a sentence without profanity, albeit discussing about history.

[Jason00S2000]

Despite all of it's flaws, the USA is still the greatest nation on earth!


:D

[!LittleDragon]

I don't see why people can't just leave the affairs of other nations alone. When the people of China have had enough of the government's crap, they'll revolt, uprise, etc... I'm not talking about little demonstrations, etc... I'm talking about the entire population... A movement so big that nobody can stop... Happened in France and the US. Or you can try to force freedom, democracy, etc on the peoples ala Iraq.... how'd that turn out?

[pandalove]

i'm staying tuned for hong kong G's take on this issue

[Jason00S2000]

I don't see why people can't just leave the affairs of other nations alone. When the people of China have had enough of the government's crap, they'll revolt, uprise, etc... I'm not talking about little demonstrations, etc... I'm talking about the entire population... A movement so big that nobody can stop... Happened in France and the US. Or you can try to force freedom, democracy, etc on the peoples ala Iraq.... how'd that turn out?


Laugh.


You will see blood run in rivers and millions killed. The world will not blink an eye because millions of chinese lives are worth nothing. ( Proven in the great leap forward ) There will be no revolution in China because the Chinese have no rights.

A chinese person can, and do, just disappear.


There is a reason why if America falls, the world will fall into another dark age. Not a dark age of technology, but a dark age for liberty and freedom.


Fuck.


Internet porn is ILLEGAL in China. CCTV cameras everywhere in London. The encroaching Islamification of Europe. The Taliban taking massive areas of Pakistan over.


Luckily we're still pretty damn free in Canada and the US. For how much longer?

[Jason00S2000]

I'm not talking about little demonstrations, etc... I'm talking about the entire population... A movement so big that nobody can stop... Happened in France and the US.



America had Benjamin Franklin and some of the other greatest human beings to have ever lived.


Who does China have?


The moment any leader of an underground opposition or revolutionary group would pop up on the radar, they would be made to disappear.

[Sid Vicious]

Your thing on lack of due process? So give me some examples.
I agree with you on the censored media, but c'mon, execute people? You seriously going to believe that? Where did you get that information from? CNN? FOX?
There are a lot protest on the corruption currently in China and you see everyday officials getting arrested and etc. It's getting better.
Hitler = The Current China. Nice, that comment just made everything you've said until now the least credible in this thread.

here's an example
http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national/story.html?id=f1a91223-bc2d-486e-b9f4-2f3ca7a4bfd1&k=7614

i could go on and on. but the fact is, you china nuthuggers have your head so far up your asses you don't realize it. i think its fair to compare china to nazi germany considering mao killed the same or probably more people than hitler

[!LittleDragon]

All I'm saying is it'll happen when it happens. What's the rush? Why does it concern you? As you've seen, when you start meddling with people's affairs, you'll make a bad situation worse and it's best to let them sort out their own affairs. You don't think that if enough leaders go "missing" that thousands, millions or even hundreds of millions of people won't start asking questions and start banging on the goverment's doors demanding answers? Everyone's just gotta be pissed off enough.

[El Bastardo]

America had Benjamin Franklin and some of the other greatest human beings to have ever lived.


Who does China have?




Holy shit. I've wanted to say this like six "Yay Chinas the fucking best" arguments ago. I always thought people would call me a racist or cite some obscure bastard who wrote a shitty poem about the yellow river or something.


Good to know I'm not alone with this.

[Manic!]

I don't see why people can't just leave the affairs of other nations alone.
Because it effects us.

All those people didn't move to Richmond for the weather.

[Sid Vicious]

Holy shit. I've wanted to say this like six "Yay Chinas the fucking best" arguments ago. I always thought people would call me a racist or cite some obscure bastard who wrote a shitty poem about the yellow river or something.


Good to know I'm not alone with this.

George Washington was called "Caunotaucarius" which is the devourer of villages by the iroquois.

when people who cut off peoples fucking scalps for fun called you the town eater, you know you're badass

[SkinnyPupp]

Uhh...of course I know the difference between the Republic of China (Taiwan) and the PRC..both my grand parents and my aunt were civil servants of the Republic of China(Taiwan), and they will tell you anyday they are Chinese rather than Taiwanese...Not every citizen of Taiwan wants Taiwan independency, just like not all Quebecans wants to get out of Canada..

fact is there are two Chinas on the face of this earth right now, once is a democratic one (Taiwan), one isn't (PRC) but both are ecnomically prospering.

And you, I don't see you having any knowledge of history rather than words like fuck or shit or ignorant. Seems to me you cant even complete a sentence without profanity, albeit discussing about history.
Why the fuck do you keep bringing up Chinese ethnicity? What the hell does that have to do with anything we're talking about here?

People like you make me want to smash my face into my desk..

[SkinnyPupp]

America had Benjamin Franklin and some of the other greatest human beings to have ever lived.


Who does China have?


The moment any leader of an underground opposition or revolutionary group would pop up on the radar, they would be made to disappear.
China isn't allowed to have great people like Benjamin Franklin. They could go to jail for basically anything. Even the guy who wrote their national anthem died in jail afterwards, because he was an artist and a left-winger.

[oinkoinkpig]

i'm staying tuned for hong kong G's take on this issue

I'm waiting for him to say "fucking hell"

[Jason00S2000]

China isn't allowed to have great people like Benjamin Franklin. They could go to jail for basically anything. Even the guy who wrote their national anthem died in jail afterwards, because he was an artist and a left-winger.


I am drunk and just about to walk out to Granville street and this put a damper on my night!!! WOW!!!!


The guy that wrote the national anthem DIED IN JAIL?!

[SkinnyPupp]

I am drunk and just about to walk out to Granville street and this put a damper on my night!!! WOW!!!!


The guy that wrote the national anthem DIED IN JAIL?!
They wanted to remove all culture and art that wasn't about communism. They killed millions of people. People think Hitler was bad (he was) but Mao is just as bad. They both killed roughly the same amount of people (millions).

The lyrics were changed a few times since it was written. It went from being a song about standing up for yourself (against the Japanese), then it was changed in the late 70's (it was forbidden to be sung while he was in jail) to be a song about how great Mao and the communists are, then it was changed back again.

[DDauge]

They wanted to remove all culture and art that wasn't about communism. They killed millions of people. People think Hitler was bad (he was) but Mao is just as bad. They both killed roughly the same amount of people (millions).

The lyrics were changed a few times since it was written. It went from being a song about standing up for yourself (against the Japanese), then it was changed in the late 70's (it was forbidden to be sung while he was in jail) to be a song about how great Mao and the communists are, then it was changed back again.


And you do realize that the communist party has already openly admited the culture revolution and the great leap forward are a big mistake? And in China almost nobody thinks highly of Mao anymore..

As much as I wish the KMT party of Taiwan would one day go back to China and co-rule with the Communist party, and as much as I hate the many mistakes the communists have done (great leap foward, culture revolution, the many wrongfully jailed) , you have to give them some credits for the goods they have done.

All I am trying to say is, you have to be fair with it, they are not perfect and they are learning, I say give them time..things are changing.

[twitchyzero]

You gotta be kidding me.

I am from Taiwan so I call myself Taiwanese, but you do know your so called " Taiwanese flag" is the Flag of the Republic of China, the first democracy country in Asia founded by Dr. Sun Yat Sen?


Geebus cripes. See, this is the sort of bullshit they teach you in Socials Studies @ elementary level in Taiwan.


How can someone bring about democracy when their good o' buddie Chiang Kai Shek enforces martial law with familial military dictatorship for over 40 years?

The ruthless level of that gov't puts the Japanese ruthless level to shame.

and please please please, dont even bring ethnicity to the table. That shit is like putting salt to my wounds.

[blukai]

^
yea I am just surprised there are people (especially Chinese or Taiwanese) that
dont understand Taiwan and China are seperated by the Chinese Civil War..and to this date it still hasn't officially ended, and therefore technically there are two "Chinas" that exists on this world ..much like North and South korea, Taiwan is just the name of the province.

Taiwan and China were not seperated by the Chinese Civil War. It was ROC that gave away Taiwan to Japan. After Japan had lost WW2, they surrendered the sovereignty of Taiwan but Japan didn't say its ganna give it back to China. So, naturally, ROC just claimed it as part of ROC. Taiwan is trying to rejoin UN under the name "TAIWAN" along with other names, but did not succeed because of China and this has been going on for 10+ years.


Uhh...of course I know the difference between the Republic of China (Taiwan) and the PRC..both my grand parents and my aunt were civil servants of the Republic of China(Taiwan), and they will tell you anyday they are Chinese rather than Taiwanese...Not every citizen of Taiwan wants Taiwan independency, just like not all Quebecans wants to get out of Canada..

fact is there are two Chinas on the face of this earth right now, once is a democratic one (Taiwan), one isn't (PRC) but both are ecnomically prospering.

And you, I don't see you having any knowledge of history rather than words like fuck or shit or ignorant. Seems to me you cant even complete a sentence without profanity, albeit discussing about history.

Yes, there are some people in Taiwan right now that calls themselves Chinese and those are the same people that fled to Taiwan along with KMT when they lost the civil war. Based on the latest poll by TVBS, which tends to favor KMT, there are only 19% calls themselves Chinese in Taiwan.
I agree that not all Quebecois want to leave Canada but at least they had a referendum. Does Taiwan get to vote? No! Why? Because China will increase more missiles thats already aiming at Taiwan ATM.


And you do realize that the communist party has already openly admited the culture revolution and the great leap forward are a big mistake? And in China almost nobody thinks highly of Mao anymore..

As much as I wish the KMT party of Taiwan would one day go back to China and co-rule with the Communist party, and as much as I hate the many mistakes the communists have done (great leap foward, culture revolution, the many wrongfully jailed) , you have to give them some credits for the goods they have done.

All I am trying to say is, you have to be fair with it, they are not perfect and they are learning, I say give them time..things are changing.

Communist will never let KMT to co-rule China with them. If KMT do go back to China, it will only be controlled by the Communist. In return, KMT hopes that the Communist will let them rule Taiwan just like HK. I found it ironic that not long ago KMT and the communist were fighting and KMT teaches the people in Taiwan that communist is the enemy but now they are like brothers.

Is China fair with the people that got sick or died from all the contaminated products. Chinese government will continue to allow this as long as theres money to be made. In a way, Chinese government is telling their people that if you want to get rich then you cant have freedom. Even then, not all Chinese will get rich because they need people to make fake LV handbags or NIKE runners so they can make less than $10 a day. Another point that I want to make is 10, 15 years ago, people think China is a shithole but now people are praising China like its heaven because theres more high rises and people are driving Ferrari and lambo. To me, not much has changed. Its still the same type of people running the country except now they allow foreigners to invest into China.

lastly, Jackie Chan is a dumbass for saying that Chinese shouldn't be given too much freedom and should be controlled. I remember reading somewhere about Jackie Chan is an Australian citizen so of course he can say that since that doesn't apply to himself. Why should only himself enjoy the freedom.

[blukai]

Geebus cripes. See, this is the sort of bullshit they teach you in Socials Studies @ elementary level in Taiwan.


How can someone bring about democracy when their good o' buddie Chiang Kai Shek enforces martial law with familial military dictatorship for over 40 years?

The ruthless level of that gov't puts the Japanese ruthless level to shame.

and please please please, dont even bring ethnicity to the table. That shit is like putting salt to my wounds.

Totally agree. When KMT took over Taiwan, they fed all those bullshit to the people. Saying how great China is and one day they will shit kick the communist and take back China. They even have to learn about the history of China but not the history of Taiwan. Not until few years ago, kids started to learn about Taiwan.

The reason why Taiwan is so democratic now is because of all the protests that happened in the 70's and 80's which alot of people died from that.

[SkinnyPupp]

And you do realize that the communist party has already openly admited the culture revolution and the great leap forward are a big mistake?
No they don't. Not the way you are suggesting
And in China almost nobody thinks highly of Mao anymore..
Umm, have you ever been to China before?
you have to give them some credits for the goods they have done.
No I don't. They haven't done any real good. All they have done is fool people like you into thinking they have done anything "good". Unless by "good" you mean "no longer killing millions of people at a time". Yeah, that's great! Congrats to them for that.
they are learning
No they are not. They are fooling people into thinking they are changing.

[DDauge]

Taiwan and China were not seperated by the Chinese Civil War. It was ROC that gave away Taiwan to Japan.


Your level of igorance is alarming. ROC never gave away Taiwan to Japan..it was the Qing Dynasty which lost the Sino-Japan war and gave taiwan to japan..

[DDauge]

No they don't. Not the way you are suggesting

Umm, have you ever been to China before?


I think I have said already I have personally lived and worked in China before as a Taiwanese expatriate..I also had extensive business trips throughout the entire China..I think I can speak more about the reality than any of you who get your information from CNN or DDP.

[pandalove]

this debate is FUCCKKKINGGG INTENSEE!!!!!!!!!!:flamemad::flamemad::flamemad:

[blukai]

Your level of igorance is alarming. ROC never gave away Taiwan to Japan..it was the Qing Dynasty which lost the Sino-Japan war and gave taiwan to japan..

yes, my bad. It was Qing Dynasty that GAVE away Taiwan to Japan. Still, that doesn't mean Taiwan and China are separated by civil war.

[dna82]

I think I have said already I have personally lived and worked in China before as a Taiwanese expatriate..I also had extensive business trips throughout the entire China..I think I can speak more about the reality than any of you who get your information from CNN or DDP.

i lol'd here.
typical response.
i make money in china, therefor everything here is A-OK don't fuck up my vespian extractor.

[DDauge]

yes, my bad. It was Qing Dynasty that GAVE away Taiwan to Japan. Still, that doesn't mean Taiwan and China are separated by civil war.

well, technically they are, if it wasn't for the communist party the entire China now would be under KMT rule..which would've now become the largest democratic country in the world. it's too bad

[DDauge]

i lol'd here.
typical response.
i make money in china, therefor everything here is A-OK don't fuck up my vespian extractor.

I don't get it..whats your point?

Did I say everything in China is okay? All I am saying is you gotta give credit for China's government for the goods its done, and everyone knows the culture revolution and the great leap forward are a failure...

wait, do you even know what they are?

[Jingwu3]

i lol'd here.
typical response.
i make money in china, therefor everything here is A-OK don't fuck up my vespian extractor.


this guy is too caught up with starcraft, nevermind him.

the only China-like place hes been to is probably richmond

[twitchyzero]

Yes, there are some people in Taiwan right now that calls themselves Chinese and those are the same people that fled to Taiwan along with KMT when they lost the civil war.


You forgot to add the majority of the people that call themselves Chinese in Taiwan; those that were originally there but got brainwashed by the KMT gov't/media/school system.

[dna82]

I don't get it..whats your point?

Did I say everything in China is okay? All I am saying is you gotta give credit for China's government for the goods its done, and everyone knows the culture revolution and the great leap forward are a failure...

wait, do you even know what they are?

you don't get a standing ovation for being the 2nd worst student in a class. so why should credit be given to China for improving from shit to 'better' shit.

oookay, i thought i was being pretty blunt there but i'll try again.
the only reason why you think China is even a remotely 'decent' country is because you do business with them, it is in your interest to show china in a good light so you can make MONEY or some form of misguided ethnic pride.

it is in your best interest that the people continue to work for very little money so you can make alot of money.

it is in your interest to deny people rights and democracy because the people on top are easier to bribe.

replace the word 'your' with your typical businessman.

[SkinnyPupp]

I think I have said already I have personally lived and worked in China before as a Taiwanese expatriate..I also had extensive business trips throughout the entire China..I think I can speak more about the reality than any of you who get your information from CNN or DDP.
Yup, I get all my information from CNN. I have never been to China before in my life, despite living in Hong Kong for the last 3 years, and visiting regularly for the last 5 years. Not as a businessman, just as an observer.

I see China from a very open perspective. I have no prejudices whatsoever. I don't have to like it, I don't have to hate it. I have heard people try to convince me that it's great. I have heard people who are suffering, and wish they could change things. And everything in between. Therefore, I feel that I know what it's all about there. I have been to all different places - not just the typical backpack destinations or the phony cities the expats live in. That gives me the unique perspective of seeing China for what it really is, not what is presented to me in an attempt to convince me of how I am supposed to perceive it.

It's sad that when all these people are presenting you with knowledge and facts, that you just dismiss it and try to change the subject. You have so much to learn about your own family's history, but are choosing to remain ignorant. At first I was sad for you, then mad at you for being an idiot. Now I am just sad again. Tell your mother I am sorry she raised such a stupid son :(

[highfive]

China has gone through both good and bad times. But it's meaningless to compare history back and forth. You can do the same by saying how many people the Qin emperor killed etc...

Back to the topic, think about this. China has 1.3 billion people. Over 50 (forgot the actual number) ethnicity or culture. Over half of the populations are poor rural peasants. IF democracy was allowed, or freedom to protest was allowed, imagine what would happen? What would a poor peasant do if he see himself working his ass off making pennies while this guy in a suit in the cities is driving a car? This would create chaos and people would be fighting for things they were fighting for back in during the cultural revolution or even before that.

I know that as a fact is that China has gone through a lot and changed the past 60 years. It is actually pretty remarkable to see a country who was once called the Sick man of Asia and has gone through a revolution, WWI, WWII, the civil war, cultural revolution to a country today who holds a quarter of US debts. Lets just wait and see how the next 60 years is going to change the lives of the Chinese.

[DDauge]

China has gone through both good and bad times. But it's meaningless to compare history back and forth. You can do the same by saying how many people the Qin emperor killed etc...

Back to the topic, think about this. China has 1.3 billion people. Over 50 (forgot the actual number) ethnicity or culture. Over half of the populations are poor rural peasants. IF democracy was allowed, or freedom to protest was allowed, imagine what would happen? What would a poor peasant do if he see himself working his ass off making pennies while this guy in a suit in the cities is driving a car? This would create chaos and people would be fighting for things they were fighting for back in during the cultural revolution or even before that.

I know that as a fact is that China has gone through a lot and changed the past 60 years. It is actually pretty remarkable to see a country who was once called the Sick man of Asia and has gone through a revolution, WWI, WWII, the civil war, cultural revolution to a country today who holds a quarter of US debts. Lets just wait and see how the next 60 years is going to change the lives of the Chinese.


This is exactly the reason why China cannot have democracy just yet.

Well said highfive.

Like I said, by all means China is not there yet, but its rapidly improving.

You are constantly talking about people working in a low standard enviornment, little did you know just 20 years ago most of them didn't even have a place to work other than their farm and producing very little products due to its backward technology.

Things have improved. Although alot still live in a harsh environment, its still better than before. This is also the reason why I say you have to give them credit for it.

[asian_XL]

Back to the topic, think about this. China has 1.3 billion people. Over 50 (forgot the actual number) ethnicity or culture. Over half of the populations are poor rural peasants. IF democracy was allowed, or freedom to protest was allowed, imagine what would happen?
What would a poor peasant do if he see himself working his ass off making pennies while this
guy in a suit in the cities is driving a car? This would create chaos and people would be
fighting for things they were fighting for back in during the cultural revolution or even before
that.


With existing literacy level and living standard, democracy means nothing to
majority of chinese people who live in mainland china. They are already living
as free as any people in any Western country. It's not like in the old days,
the government installs speakerphone under your kitchen table or force you to
work at a factory. What Chinese care the most is how to get themselve
out of poverty (for lower class) or how to send their kids to study aboard
(middle class). If you dare to ask a mainlander in China about democracy or
Taiwan independency, he will call you nuts and say "we have more important
things to deal with in our life"

I wouldn't say Jackie Chan's statement is false, in fact, I sort of understand
what he's trying to claim in his view point. He just spoke it to the wrong
audience without refining it.

[ZhangFei]

Holy shit... so much text.

Look at democracy in India for example. Indian democracy is a fucking joke.

China is sure not to make the same mistakes as India!

[asahai69]

Holy shit... so much text.

Look at democracy in India for example. Indian democracy is a fucking joke.

China is sure not to make the same mistakes as India!

woah woah woah. just cuz china's government sucks ass dosent mean u gotta bring india into this.

[asian_XL]

so canadian government is anywhere better?
it's just plain stupid to comment a foreign government sucks ass

[DDauge]

With existing literacy level and living standard, democracy means nothing to
majority of chinese people who live in mainland china. They are already living
as free as any people in any Western country. It's not like in the old days,
the government installs speakerphone under your kitchen table or force you to
work at a factory. What Chinese care the most is how to get themselve
out of poverty (for lower class) or how to send their kids to study aboard
(middle class). If you dare to ask a mainlander in China about democracy or
Taiwan independency, he will call you nuts and say "we have more important
things to deal with in our life"

I wouldn't say Jackie Chan's statement is false, in fact, I sort of understand
what he's trying to claim in his view point. He just spoke it to the wrong
audience without refining it.

I couldn't agree with you more.

the average Chinese people liviing in China is indeed living very freely. things are different.

And like you said most people couldnt careless about western democracy..they worry more about how to make money.

well said here AsianXL

[asahai69]

so canadian government is anywhere better?
it's just plain stupid to comment a foreign government sucks ass

ok. in my opinion china's government sucks ass. better?

[ZhangFei]

The reason why the CCP still rules China to this day is because they have the Mandate of Heaven.

If the Chinese didn't want the CCP, they would have rebelled a long time ago. The Chinese have a long history of revolting against corrupt rulers. We had the Taiping rebellion, the yellow turban rebellion and other rebellions and wars and shit just to overthrow the government we didn't like. So it's nothing to us to start a rebellion if we didn't want the CCP in place.

[SkinnyPupp]

If the Chinese didn't want the CCP, they would have rebelled a long time ago.
Umm they did. And they got ran over by tanks for it.

China has basically been whipped into submission, fooled into thinking that money is everything in life, and you think that means they are living free.

You morons should all just move there. Hopefully Revscene is one of the sites that is blocked by the government so we never see you again. :thumbsup:

[asian_XL]

ok. in my opinion china's government sucks ass. better?


not trying to point my fingers at you, but why do people care so much about
other people's government and stuff? or try to raise people's attention when
the locals don't even think it's a big matter. Chinese people love President
Wen and his policies. Look at Fetched, SFUdropoff and other socialist elites
on RS, they'll murder their gf just to show you how much they love their
government, I see so many of them on forums and all over the world (as well
check out the beating in Korea before Beijing Olympic, so many supporters)

If the local people are upset, just like those retards in Bangkok, then it's
safe to say the government sucks ass or impotent.

[ZhangFei]

Umm they did. And they got ran over by tanks for it.

China has basically been whipped into submission, fooled into thinking that money is everything in life, and you think that means they are living free.

You morons should all just move there. Hopefully Revscene is one of the sites that is blocked by the government so we never see you again. :thumbsup:

So what's your point?

A rebellion is not a tea party.

If you look at history, the Chinese people did manage to overthrow the Qing Dynasty. The people got together and they finally did manage to topple the Manchu government.

If the people are fed up with the CCP, there will be civil disorder. As of now there are only small brush-fires.

The only "threat" to china is falun gong. Too bad the falun gong is a peaceful non-violent religion.. hahaha because if they were violent, ain't no telling, we probably would have Li hongzi as president of China. hahaha

[asian_XL]

Umm they did. And they got ran over by tanks for it.

China has basically been whipped into submission, fooled into thinking that money is everything in life, and you think that means they are living free.

You morons should all just move there. Hopefully Revscene is one of the sites that is blocked by the government so we never see you again. :thumbsup:

^ Fart Lun Gung is another example.

If a country / economy prospers, people tend to welcome their government.
It's normal and it also goes the other way around (look at Hong Kong right
now for example)

[asian_XL]

So what's your point?

A rebellion is not a tea party.

If you look at history, the Chinese people did manage to overthrow the Qing Dynasty. The people got together and they finally did manage to topple the Manchu government.

If the people are fed up with the CCP, there will be civil disorder. As of now there are only small brush-fires.

The only "threat" to china is falun gong. Too bad the falun gong is a peaceful non-violent religion.. hahaha because if they were violent, ain't no telling, we probably would have Li hongzi as president of China. hahaha


why would chinese overthrow the CCP, when it is making its people rich?

Qing was overthrown cause that queen bitch was keeping all the money.
Ming was overthrown cause the country was weak ass
Yuen was overthrown cause internal political cohesion disintegrated and aboriginal chinese people were discriminated by the Mongolians. etc etc
Sung was overthrown cause the government declined the status for the military elite thought it would avoid rebellion, but got ass annexed by Mongolians.

Lesson learned. 1) citizens should have money 2)government structure must be strong 3) military power is a must

[Meowjin]

not trying to point my fingers at you, but why do people care so much about
other people's government and stuff? or try to raise people's attention when
the locals don't even think it's a big matter. Chinese people love President
Wen and his policies. Look at Fetched, SFUdropoff and other socialist elites
on RS, they'll murder their gf just to show you how much they love their
government, I see so many of them on forums and all over the world (as well
check out the beating in Korea before Beijing Olympic, so many supporters)

If the local people are upset, just like those retards in Bangkok, then it's
safe to say the government sucks ass or impotent.


So if a canadian dies in a foreign country or their ambassadors gets excucuted for slander we shouldn't care?

Human Suffering is universal, anyways. And even in the orthodox church we have a day to commomerate the martyr's who have been around in china since the 17th century just because of what they believed.

http://orthodoxwiki.org/images/3/30/ChineseMartyrs.jpg

Not only that, these people were ambassadors of faith, missionaries and had strong ties towards russia.

[fetched]

people can believe whatever they want in China, as long as you don't go to people's houses telling them how great jesus is.
Face it, China is prospering like there's no tomorrow and the only people complaining about human rights are you people and the chinese traitors who got a free green card from USA along with harvard degrees just to talk shit about China.
Maybe if Canada had 10% of the productivity level in China, you wouldn't need immigrants to power your country.

[Sid Vicious]

people can believe whatever they want in China, as long as you don't go to people's houses telling them how great jesus is.
Face it, China is prospering like there's no tomorrow and the only people complaining about human rights are you people and the chinese traitors who got a free green card from USA along with harvard degrees just to talk shit about China.
Maybe if Canada had 10% of the productivity level in China, you wouldn't need immigrants to power your country.

Canada has a higher GDP per capita than china. epic lulz. you fail at life, try again.

and wtf does jesus have to do with anything?

[impactX]

people can believe whatever they want in China, as long as you don't go to people's houses telling them how great jesus is.
Face it, China is prospering like there's no tomorrow and the only people complaining about human rights are you people and the chinese traitors who got a free green card from USA along with harvard degrees just to talk shit about China.
Maybe if Canada had 10% of the productivity level in China, you wouldn't need immigrants to power your country.

Funny how you conveniently ignored my previous reply directed towards you.

[fetched]

Funny how you ignored my previous reply directed towards you.

okay i'll reply wait please. i'm playing a game of dota right now.

[fetched]

Canada has a higher GDP per capita than china. epic lulz. you fail at life, try again.

and wtf does jesus have to do with anything?

Don't compare GDP against China, 1.3 billion vs 35mil.
Talking about jesus because that's what majin focuses on.
What i meant is what you see on a daily basis.
Everyone chills the fuck out in Vancouver, but in ASIA, you'll see what pressure means and how much they can get done in a day.
I don't have proof but it's just a observation.

[ZhangFei]

why would chinese overthrow the CCP, when it is making its people rich?

Qing was overthrown cause that queen bitch was keeping all the money.
Ming was overthrown cause the country was weak ass
Yuen was overthrown cause internal political cohesion disintegrated and aboriginal chinese people were discriminated by the Mongolians. etc etc
Sung was overthrown cause the government declined the status for the military elite thought it would avoid rebellion, but got ass annexed by Mongolians.

Lesson learned. 1) citizens should have money 2)government structure must be strong 3) military power is a must

I said IF the Chinese didn't want the CCP, they will rebel.

We threw out so many corrupt dynasties its nothing for the people to do it again.

[fetched]

Fact There are people who want democracy in China. Such people are constantly stalked by police. Ironically, some people are actually real socialists, who want the government to take care of its people better. Their discussion forum gets shut down until they could find a more proper name so it doesn't offend the Communist Government. The TV programme that talked about this was done by TVB and not CNN and I am glad that TVB is not self-censoring.
My comment How insecure can the communist government be

2) Fact China is still a backward country in terms of human right. Example Lands get seized from citizens without decent compensation.
My comment I don't think people are asking for universal suffrage in terms of choosing a political party as China's government. China already admitted that it will NEVER happen and the Communist Party will be the only party in China. What people are asking for is that they can criticize the government without repercussion (such as being tried for Treason, being followed and having their properties seized). There's so much corruption in every level of the Chinese government that there's not much accountability when the people don't get to vote.

Of course it's easy for you to sit in front of monitor in CANADA and praise about how well you could have it in China. You can shit on the Canadian Government all night long with no fear about the RCMP or CSIS knocking on your door (providing that you are not planning a terrorist attack.) In fact#1 above, the left-wing socialists got their computers seized for hosting a socialist forum.

3) Fact China always gets pissed when the Japanese PM goes and visit the war shrine.
My comment Why should China get pissed They are essentially doing the same shit. The Japanese never admitted their wrongdoings during WWII in China, just like how China never admitted their wrongdoings during the Cultural Revolution, Great Leap Forward and the Tienanmen Square murdering.

I would respect the current leaders of China if they actually come out and admit their mistakes. And no, none of this is related to oh go visit China and look at how prosperous it is! And don't get me started with the children with no arms and legs controlled by the mobs to beg for money... or the children selling flowers... and last but not least, the thieves (more like robbers) who are HIV-positive threatening you with a syringe of his blood. It made walking along Main and Hastings feel like a walk in the park.

Here's a question for you Since you were from the Mainland China, what connections did you have to use to get out of China It would be nice to see what you needed to do to achieve that.

1. I agree, media censorship is one of the things in China that has to change. Anything regarding sensitive information regarding China is censored. But that isn't to say western media isn't brainwashing fools like Skinnypup, who chooses to report bloodshed over peace and people have the assumption that all the negative things they say on TV happens to 1.3 billion people in China, when you are only seeing one individuals view.

2. WRONG. China have improved on what you call the seizure of land. During the Olympics, people were asked to leave with a good compensation package, some houses were even illegal properties and the government paid for those too. Of course there are going to be people unhappy about it and refusing to leave, but this is how business gets done in China, we don't take a year to have a couple houses removed for a 1 billion dollar project.

3. CORRUPTION. China has one of the worst corruptions of government in the world, but IT IS NOT BECAUSE OF HOW THE GOVERNMENT OPERATES. Look at Taiwan, they are a tiny country and their government is way worst than China on every scale, except human rights. When you manage a country of 1.3 billion people, corruption occurs frequently as no matter how good the government monitors different individuals, it will still happen. Even in BC, with a population of a small chinese city, BC RAILS/LIBERALS/PREMIER/MAYOR/POLICE CHIEF, corruption exist here in every level of authority as well.

4. I came here legally because of my parent's level of excellence in their educational/field of work.

5. If you believe in freedom and democracy about 1.3 billion china people, i hope that you can show us by apologizing to that person which you accused of stealing on the basis of what he was charged but not yet judged. Due process is widely discussed in this thread and you basically skipped it just like what people think China does.

6. China does not need to acknowledge anything to anyone besides their own countrymen, everyone in China knows about the cultural revolution, the tiananmen square incident, and the great leap forward. People have come accustomed to it and moved on from it, every country makes mistakes and to most chinese people, the cultural revolution and the great leap forward was two of the most important moves that made China what it is today ( Red army killed landlords who had 10+ slaves and living lavishly while they tortured,raped, killed them whenever they felt like it <- Mind you this happened when KMT was in control, that's why red army was created in the first place, made up of peasants, middle class, and students.). I wouldn't have to explain what Japan did to the Chinese and Koreans but your fucking stupid for even mentioning it.

7. The syringe? That incident happened a few years ago and there was only couple incidents regarding it. Do you want me to talk about how dangerous Vancouver is compared to Beijing? Kid's selling flowers is wrong, Police/City Control Enforcers arrests any individual that uses kids for business purpose. what are you trying to prove? China has more weird crimes than Vancouver? Speaking of Crimes, its treated harsher in China than anywhere else in the world, and is needed to govern 1.3 billion people. If China had the same sentence as it carries for murder here in Canada, dayum, GG. By the way, your examples isn't related to your argument at all, crimes and human rights don't relate.

We could continue to go back and forth all day, but the bottom line is, more freedom will come in time. It will come when China's economy becomes stable, until then, it's back to taking the #1 spot from USA.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PS: Skinnypup, you are undoubtly the most uneducated person on revscene to date. Not only do you not know anything regarding China and its past, you have no business sense whatsoever but i won't get into that because it affects the RS advertising spectrum. Just stick to selling face wash and stop your ranting about China, because rather than providing facts about China, all you've been doing is sayin things like "your dumb, your stupid, your ignorant, imma say sorry to your mom for giving birth to you"

[Meowjin]

okay i'll reply wait please. i'm playing a game of dota right now.

Funny because you claimed in a thread, where you tried to insult me during a dota game as "the guy who bragged to revscene that he had a TL" that it wasn't you, and you would never be caught playing a loser game such as dota.

lol liar.

I don't play dota.
I don't message/PM you.
I bet you still have scars from people calling you a fatty/hamburger when you were young.
I don't know what the fuck your talking about but calling anyone out in the game of dota on RS is fucking hilarious.
Keep calling people cheap by tipping 3 dollars for a free denny's meal cause we all know you the real e-balla
You sure dominate me so much in a video game online, because you know, it wasn't me, but i'm glad that you were thinking of me all this time.

<3 Majin :haha:

[fetched]

Funny because you claimed in a thread, where you tried to insult me during a dota game as "the guy who bragged to revscene that he had a TL" that it wasn't you, and you would never be caught playing a loser game such as dota.

lol liar.

HAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!
yah i lied, but i laughed the whole 2 pages where you got flamed at.
good times good times.
Shall we meet in dota again?:haha:

[asian_XL]

So if a canadian dies in a foreign country or their ambassadors gets excucuted for slander we shouldn't care?


yeah, you think our government actually did something for those soliders who died in iraq? did they send a plane to Thailand to resecue those tourists in Thailand last year? I bet we care doesn't mean our government cares.

[SkinnyPupp]

PS: Skinnypup, you are undoubtly the most uneducated person on revscene to date. Not only do you not know anything regarding China and its past, you have no business sense whatsoever but i won't get into that because it affects the RS advertising spectrum. Just stick to selling face wash and stop your ranting about China, because rather than providing facts about China, all you've been doing is sayin things like "your dumb, your stupid, your ignorant, imma say sorry to your mom for giving birth to you"
I would have closed this thread earlier, but there were still some people making semi-constructive posts. But as you know, deconstructive flaming (making fun of my wife's business, etc) is not to be tolerated. So I will just hand out points and close this thread once and for all.