[HollyZ32]

Ok so im from mission new to van never seen this before but...yesterday as i was working i look out the window and all of a sudden i see what it seem to be over 500 bikes riding down the middle of burrard street
it was crazy never seen so many in my life and they were just ridding down the middle of the street with not a care for anything and a bunch of bike blocking off side streets and riddding infront of cars so know one could go down the streets and just being really stupid (in my opionion)
i later then asked my father what it was annd he said it waas called critical mass and it just a bunch of portestors doing that trying to get more people to stop driving cars and to start riding more bikes and they aparently do it ever friday during rush hour.
i know its a protest but seriously what good is it going to do and how many people are ACTAULLY gonna start riding bikes because of this
to me it just seems like a big piss off and there is no point to it!

its not gonna do anything but just make people mad.

[carisear]

you are correct.

critical mass is pretty much one of the most hated groups on RS.

[HollyZ32]

it was just so stupid i have never seen anything like that before it was justy dumb how they would ride out infront of people so that way they couldnt move or anything until all of the bikers left so stupid!

[johny]

I would open the car door as they went by

[The_AK]

Gentlemen, this is getting out of hand. Man your lead pipes.

[AVS_Racing]

god damnit i hate those hippies, must take out the good old wooden stick lol

[El Bastardo]

http://autoworld.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/car-bike-crash-mexico-cnn-img_1.jpg

[cool moe D]

Would it be illegal to turn on the whiper fluids so it splashes them in the face?

[Eff-1]

Would it be illegal to turn on the whiper fluids so it splashes them in the face?

Not illegal. Just retarded.

[Rich Sandor]

^ But not as retarded as participating in critical mass.

I'm sorry, but it pisses me off. There are THOUSANDS of people using the roads on friday at 6pm *just trying to get home* and the LAST THING that is going to help is a couple hundred idiots to fuck around on thier bikes in downtown and fuck up traffic flow for 2 hours - FOR NO GOOD REASON. Critical Mass does not get people out of their cars. It does not reduce the amount of cars on the roads. All it does is create traffic havoc on the last friday of every month for about 2 hours.

[seakrait]

^^^ it does inconvenience a lot more people than necessary i think. but yeah, just keep in mind that the last friday of every month during the end-of-day rush hour in the downtown core will be traffic hell.

and trust me, i know. i live downtown.

[Philly74]

^^^ it does inconvenience a lot more people than necessary i think. but yeah, just keep in mind that the last friday of every month during the end-of-day rush hour in the downtown core will be traffic hell.

and trust me, i know. i live downtown.


yea unfortunately you're right about the date. i have a friend who was in that critical mass...

[HollyZ32]

its even more stupid that they have a bunch of little kids being apart of it to
seriously so dumb
someday some one is actaully gonna hit them god they are just so stupid
im just glad i was not drivcing when i saw it! oh man i would be so pissed!

[hk20000]

Every time they do this parade people have to slow down or stop and derive from the optimum speed and traffic flow the city planners spent months and years to optimise. Every time those nutjobs hit the street more carbon is released to the air for no fucking good reason because these cars can't do their jobs properly now.

Good job.

[tiger_handheld]

what is this critical mass you speak of? What is their purpose in life? [ be serious pls ]

[Graeme S]

what is this critical mass you speak of? What is their purpose in life? [ be serious pls ]
To ride around promoting bicycle ridership.


I vote for an RS meet with supersoakers. This is the least illegal thing which we can do to annoy the fuck out of them, IMO.

[HollyZ32]

How often do they do this ?

[nah]

yea unfortunately you're right about the date. i have a friend who was in that critical mass...

you should give him a cock punch for everyone...

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i58/jhawk65807/cockpunch.jpg

[ctsport]

Its responses like these that make me think North Americans don't deserve democracy because the majority of the people are just too stupid (or maybe its just RS LOL).

In a democracy, the only effective means of addressing grievances is to protest. And effective protests aren't nice quiet rallies in some park where no one can hear you. The only successful protests have been ones in which enough well informed citizens sufficiently organize and are thus able to disrupt the system [via blocking traffic, commerce, government, whatever ]. It is only when the current reaches the tipping point where the governors of the system feel sufficiently threatened will they feel compelled to change the status quo.

Take the labor movement, if it weren't for the hundreds of thousands of labor protesters (by blocking entrances to factories, etc.) in the United States who refused to work under slave-like conditions did the government finally enact laws that gave workers some basic rights. (before these laws, titans would simply hire gangsters to beat up workers who demanded safer working conditions or livable wages) This was time of the "Robber Barons"??

Or take the Civil Rights Movement (Martin Luther King ring a bell?). If it weren't for these massive protests (by disrupting traffic, etc. *cough*), people of color would still be second-class citizens (they still are in many respects but at least a lot of progress has been achieved).

The Feminist Movement anyone? More protesting, more disruption of business as usual? Equal opportunity for women?

Do you know how the Vietnam War ended?? Tens of thousands of Americans and millions of Vietnamese were dead or dying and who knows how many more would have died if it weren't for the millions of well-informed-and-active citizens who blocked off the Pentagon, chocking off Washington and demanding the government to stop the war.

Or take the protesters who overwhelmed Seattle in the run-up to the WTO "Clinton Round". It was only then that CEOs of multinational corporations and Heads of States take notice that millions of people around the world were extremely concerned about the extremities of globalization and the WTO's neo-liberal economic policies. Shortly after, these corporations were compelled to take greater responsibility in the welfare of the millions of workers in their employment in developing countries.

As citizens of a democracy you not only have the responsibility to stay relatively well-informed but to be active in the protection and betterment of society. Not only are you abdicating your duties as citizens, you're getting in the way of the very people (members of active-and-concerned-citizen groups i.e. Civil Rights in the past, Critical Mass in the present) who have and are still fighting and bleeding so you could live as well as you do now. Blah why do I bother, this is Revscene LOL. :cry: :D

[BlackV62K2]

How often do they do this ?

I think it's once a month on a random Friday???

[HollyZ32]

In a democracy, the only effective means of addressing grievances is to protest. And effective protests aren't nice quiet rallies in some park where no one can hear you. The only successful protests have been ones in which enough well informed citizens sufficiently organize and are thus able to disrupt the system [via blocking traffic, commerce, government, whatever ].

ok so this is my personal opinion but
honestly even though what you said does have alot of points in there but!! there...well atlest in my eyes is a big difference between protesting for womens rights and the civils right movments big diff between that and just a bunch of tree hugging hippies that have nothing better to do besides annoy the crap out of people and listen to all this bull shit on the news about global warm and green houses gases and this carbon foot print bull shit its just stupid
i bet lots of them there dont even understand what and why they are doing and why because
what the heck is riding your bike down middle of the street blocking off traffic have to do with trying to get people to stop using your car your hurting the enviroment because honestly i didnt even know what was going on i thought it was just something trying to raise money for somehting or what ever els not a bunch of people trying to "prove" a point
anyways what im trying to say is
there is big diff between what you listed and just stupid people blocking streets and traffic just to get people to stop driving their cars because they are all stuck on how the world is such a bad place and we need to stop poluiting it.

[ctsport]

ok so this is my personal opinion but
honestly even though what you said does have alot of points in there but!! there...well atlest in my eyes is a big difference between protesting for womens rights and the civils right movments big diff between that and just a bunch of tree hugging hippies that have nothing better to do besides annoy the crap out of people and listen to all this bull shit on the news about global warm and green houses gases and this carbon foot print bull shit its just stupid
i bet lots of them there dont even understand what and why they are doing and why because
what the heck is riding your bike down middle of the street blocking off traffic have to do with trying to get people to stop using your car your hurting the enviroment because honestly i didnt even know what was going on i thought it was just something trying to raise money for somehting or what ever els not a bunch of people trying to "prove" a point
anyways what im trying to say is
there is big diff between what you listed and just stupid people blocking streets and traffic just to get people to stop driving their cars because they are all stuck on how the world is such a bad place and we need to stop poluiting it.

I couldn't finish reading your post, it made me dizzy LOL.

Errr.. regarding these so-called-hippies..before the appearance of activist environmental-consumer rights groups and outspoken individuals like Rachel Carson and Ralph Nader, there was next to zero government regulation in what industries could and could not do. Factories would routinely dump their untreated toxic wastes into rivers thereby not only polluting the drinking water, but killing all life and ecosystems downstream. Circumstances were so bad that these rivers would catch on fire on occasion.

Before these "hippies," corporations would knowing incorporate toxic (possibly carcinogenic) chemicals into products just so they could increase their profits. They still do in cases that they can get away with. Case in point, recently the European Union was compelled to ban a wide variety of known carcinogenic substances usually found in plastics and make-up because of a well-informed-and-active-citizenry. North Americans are not nearly as well informed, we have imbeciles like you; so now a lot of products that are made in China that are banned in Europe still make there way to the US and Canada. In essence, we are importing cancer.

What Critical Mass is advocating is clean and sustainable transportation. They are not advocating for the complete banishment of cars. I don't know about you but I like breathing clean air. Have you seen the air people are forced to breathe in LA or Mexico City? And for those of you still skeptical of global climate change, Wow! LOL Did you not finish high school? Which part of global warming do you not understand?

The Earth for the most part is a closed system and it has taken our planet hundreds of millions of years to reach its current equilibrium. Now we (humans) are artificially altering that sacred balance and you think thats not going to affect our natural system? Some meat-heads will invariably counter with the argument that our planet can and has in the past absorbed excessive carbon/green house gases but what they fail to mention is that these gases were the by-products of some other NATURAL process; that is, not man-made.

Take your internal body temperature for example, its always at a constant temperature. If it goes up by the tiniest amount, you get a fever and if it goes beyond by a few degrees your a goner.

Or take the bathtub scenario, if you turn on the tap, you can find a point in which the water going into the tub will equal the amount of water leaving the tub through the drainage without overfilling. This is equilibrium or the balance point. But if you increase the water supply by even the minutest amount, the tub will overfill, and given enough time will flood your whole house.

The huge amounts of green house gasses that we are expelling into the atmosphere is not part of the natural cycle. Therefore, our planet has no natural capacity to absorb and recycle this excess load. What will thus happen (and is currently happening) is that the Earth will be altered in such a way that we cannot 100% accurately predict. What we do know is that global temperatures will change, natural systems will be altered, and life on earth will be changed invariable, possible to a point in which life for millions, possibly billions of people will unnecessarily suffer.

Taken this into context, do you still find it unreasonable for a group of concerned citizens (Critical Mass) trying to bring abouts some awareness and debate on this very vital issue is a waste of time? Do you still think that polluting unnecessarily is not a big deal? Do you think getting poisoned sick due to the lack of government regulation and initiative is acceptable? For your sake and mine I hope not LOL.

[Inaii]

blah blah blah

They're getting in the way of the cars and causing more environmental damage than they're trying to save. They need to gtfo and find a different way to protest. One day someone is going to have a road rage incident and just drive through that entire crowd.

[EuroTRASH]

http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-sf2p/v108/238/37/508536397/n508536397_97974_2582.jpg

[wstce92]

The Earth for the most part is a closed system and it has taken our planet hundreds of millions of years to reach its current equilibrium. Now we (humans) are artificially altering that sacred balance and you think thats not going to affect our natural system? Some meat-heads will invariably counter with the argument that our planet can and has in the past absorbed excessive carbon/green house gases but what they fail to mention is that these gases were the by-products of some other NATURAL process; that is, not man-made.


Do you know exactly what percentage of these man-made gases that we pump out is actually from cars? If you want to do something go protest against factories and farms that create unnatural populations of cows. Go protest city hall for better public transportation at city hall. THERE IS NO NEED to go block off traffic during rush hour, creating MORE pollution from everyone having to come to a halt/slow crawl.

[HollyZ32]

Taken this into context, do you still find it unreasonable for a group of concerned citizens (Critical Mass) trying to bring abouts some awareness and debate on this very vital issue is a waste of time? Do you still think that polluting unnecessarily is not a big deal? Do you think getting poisoned sick due to the lack of government regulation and initiative is acceptable? For your sake and mine I hope not LOL.

Yes actaully i do still think its very unreasonable
i still think they dont have the right to just block of the streets just to protest because people use and rely on their cars to much its stupid
what about people that cant ride bikes and or cant take public transit
who are these people to think they have the right to block off the streets and piss people off because they think they are some high rollers that can be shit disterbers because they are trying to "save" the enviroment
its a person choice to drive a car if they wanna "save" the enviroment they good for them they can do their own part insted of being annoying as hell
if they wanted to save and make the world a better place ...insted of waisting time riding a stupid bike through traffic they could be out doing something more productive like picking up garbage on the side of the road or anything els.

[rslater]

I hate everything critical mass stands for. In fact most bike riders who bike everday to work despise critical mass.

I just can't wait for the day that a son gets a call saying his father has had a stroke and can't get to see him before he dies because a group of 2000 people thought they had the legal right to break the law and prevent a son from seeing his dying father.

[ctsport]

Blah why do I bother, this is Revscene LOL. :cry: :D

:D

[Graeme S]

One thing that's kind of interesting to me is how the media tends not to cover it at all.


Also, I wonder if it would be possible to modify critical mass into a Critical Manners or Courteous Mass...wouldn't that be nice.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_Mass#Critical_Manners

[Jason00S2000]

Can anyone tell me what Critical Mass wants the politicians to do?



Do they have an organized website?



I might even support them if their suggestions make sense.

[Graeme S]

They are unorganized; that's the nature of the gathering.

That's why they don't have to advertise their route. That's why they don't get arrested. That's why they don't get banned.

Because ORGANIZATIONS are not allowed to protest in this manner. Large enough groups of individuals are generally free from the law. Especially when they are riding a form of transport which prevents cop cars from being able to catch them.

[muteki]

Hippies...

[+Kardboard+]

RS Rolling Falcon Punch Crew, gattai!

[MarkyMark]

If they want people to listen that's the wrong way to go about it. I doubt anyone who is in a car at that point is going to think "hell yeah this is awesome I want to be a part of these pricks who are making me 2 hours late from being home with my family."

Maybe for their next trick they can blow up a bunch of cows and tell us how they saved us all from the methane gas that was coming out of their ass.

[TRDood]

so how do they organize those meets? without any type of preparation or communication..

let's have a biggest RS meet riding 3km/hr in front of these 500 bikers!!

[MWR34]

what about the methane gas from the crack of those hippies asses. not to mention the stank bike sweat that emits x 500. thats more a HAZMAT situation over global warming.

[CanadaGoose]

One day someone is going to have a road rage incident and just drive through that entire crowd.

That's why you'll never hear about anything like this in Alberta.

NO ONE would even flinch for a bunch of homeless hippies on bicycles trying to block an intersection. Guaranteed you'll read about some jacked up F-350 mowing them down LOL

[Soundy]

i later then asked my father what it was annd he said it waas called critical mass and it just a bunch of portestors doing that trying to get more people to stop driving cars and to start riding more bikes...

This, I don't believe. It may have started with that in mind, but somehow I think anymore, it's just a bunch of assholes looking to stir the shit, with no particular goal in mind other than to wreak havoc.

Wouldn't be surprised, actually, if they have a direct connection to the Anti Poverty Committee and other such petty-terrorist groups who are more about making a lot of noise than actually accomplishing anything.

[taylor192]

They're getting in the way of the cars and causing more environmental damage than they're trying to save. They need to gtfo and find a different way to protest. One day someone is going to have a road rage incident and just drive through that entire crowd.
And that one day will spell the end of a lot more driving privileges as politicians will rush to enact laws further protecting cyclists.

They have a right to the road as do cars. If you don't like it, stay home, driving is a PRIVILEGE not a right.

[taylor192]

I just can't wait for the day that a son gets a call saying his father has had a stroke and can't get to see him before he dies because a group of 2000 people thought they had the legal right to break the law and prevent a son from seeing his dying father.Stop being a DQ.

Think of the number of cars stopped in gridlock cause of a rush hour accident on a bridge. Then think of your same scenario. Then then of how many times there's gridlock and how many times critical mass happens.

There's lots of people who miss things cause of rush hour gridlock.

[taylor192]

what about people that cant ride bikes and or cant take public transit
Again more DQ BS.

Those people are so few that if those who could ride their bike, walk or take public transit actually did, the roads would be fine.

[taylor192]

I couldn't finish reading your post, it made me dizzy LOL.
Me too. Ever noticed that those who have a problem with protesters often cannot put together an intelligent argument other than Drama Queen exceptions that inconvenience their busy day.

[Supafly]

I think one good car going 20km/h will do some damage to those cyclists....just take an asian wowen and make her drive DT....i'll bet there will be a change in traffic patterns.

[time_traveller]

I enjoy driving my car, but I also ride my bike to work sometimes. I can't stand these people. I doubt any of them own a car or live downtown. A majority of them don't even care about the "cause" because they are just flash mob nerds. You know the same jackasses that eagerly attend events such as "national pillow fight day".

[Soundy]

Me too. Ever noticed that those who have a problem with protesters often cannot put together an intelligent argument other than Drama Queen exceptions that inconvenience their busy day.

Damn, where's Tic Tac when you need him?

[Graeme S]

Sadly, one of my TESOL classmates and one of my former coworkers were both involved in Critical Mass. Neither of them could properly comprehend the argument from the other side--that Critical Mass is ridiculously disruptive, that bicycling is incredibly impractical for the greater majority of lower mainlanders, that it's only a useful mode of transportation a maximum of 6 months out of the year (discounting the fact that it rains a ridiculous amount). How many lawyers who live in kits would want to bike to work even if they had a bike lane? How many UBC students would bike daily? It takes longer than bussing, you end up sweaty and dirty.

Yes, it's cleaner. Yes, it's good exercise. But you know what? I live in North Burnaby, and I work downtown. 15km either way. My bus commute is 20 minutes; it would take at least twice that to bike, and it's uphill halfway regardless of the direction I travel in.

I appreciate that people in Vancouver want to be environmentally conscious. But fuck you for disrupting everyone's lives to flaunt your so-called superiority. You want to show how much better you are? OBEY THE FUCKING LAW.

[Meowjin]

Sadly, one of my TESOL classmates and one of my former coworkers were both involved in Critical Mass. Neither of them could properly comprehend the argument from the other side--that Critical Mass is ridiculously disruptive, that bicycling is incredibly impractical for the greater majority of lower mainlanders, that it's only a useful mode of transportation a maximum of 6 months out of the year (discounting the fact that it rains a ridiculous amount). How many lawyers who live in kits would want to bike to work even if they had a bike lane? How many UBC students would bike daily? It takes longer than bussing, you end up sweaty and dirty.

Yes, it's cleaner. Yes, it's good exercise. But you know what? I live in North Burnaby, and I work downtown. 15km either way. My bus commute is 20 minutes; it would take at least twice that to bike, and it's uphill halfway regardless of the direction I travel in.

I appreciate that people in Vancouver want to be environmentally conscious. But fuck you for disrupting everyone's lives to flaunt your so-called superiority. You want to show how much better you are? OBEY THE FUCKING LAW.

This is the reasons vancouverites are the biggest pussies. Granted I think critical mass is fucking dumb, because they are doing it to be stupid. If they were all going to work or something then I wouldnt mind.

I've been doing it for 8 years now. I've even ridden in the snow, when I had to get to work. You just got to layer up.

[ajax]

i like the super soaker idea. water balloons anyone?

[StaxBundlez]

http://autoworld.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/car-bike-crash-mexico-cnn-img_1.jpg

HOLY FUCK
LOL
THAT SUCKS

[Jason00S2000]

Wouldn't be surprised, actually, if they have a direct connection to the Anti Poverty Committee and other such petty-terrorist groups who are more about making a lot of noise than actually accomplishing anything.



Those groups are left extremist groups. Where as Nazis had brownshirts that used to go around beating up members of the other political parties and bullying people for votes, the leftists go outside of the law in similar ways to use mob rule and scare tactics to push their agenda. Birds of a feather!


Then again, sometimes armed rebellion is neccessary.

[rslater]

Stop being a DQ.

Think of the number of cars stopped in gridlock cause of a rush hour accident on a bridge. Then think of your same scenario. Then then of how many times there's gridlock and how many times critical mass happens.

There's lots of people who miss things cause of rush hour gridlock.

I'm unsure if you understand the argument you just made. An accident during rush hour isn't remotely close the critical mass as the cause of both are completely different. My argument is that critical mass PURPOSLEY creates this gridlock, while an accident isn't meant to purposely create this havoc. I'm simply saying that critical mass people do not actually realize their actions. What about parents going to pick their kids up from daycare? From school? What about having to get home to take meds? An accident will delay them in the same way as critical mass, but this group of bike riders is PURPOSELY creating the delay. What would you say if an ambulance is delayed getting over the lions gate bridge to get to a friend of yours? You'd be pissed if it was an accident, but how mad would you be if it was caused by 2000 people illegally causing this delay? Now your going to say people will move over for an amublance, but try moving 2000 people followed by 100's of cars blocking both lanes.

[Death2Theft]

Maj buddy have u gotten to fat and lazy in your plush car to go freeriding nowadays?
This is the reasons vancouverites are the biggest pussies. Granted I think critical mass is fucking dumb, because they are doing it to be stupid. If they were all going to work or something then I wouldnt mind.

I've been doing it for 8 years now. I've even ridden in the snow, when I had to get to work. You just got to layer up.

[jeffh]

i dont like smelly homeless people, so my protest is going to be to go downtown in Van with a firehose full of bleach and Amonia and hose all the greasy fuckers down, at the end of the day, getting Gassed is in their best interest, so that should be cool right?


people that take advantage of the lenience of other people piss me off, they wouldnt pull this shit in Compton, they are just counting on everyone else obeying the very rules that they are flaunting

[EuroTRASH]

anyone wanna chip in for a long piece of steel cable? we can just each take an end and start threading it through bike wheels before the start off....steel cable because they couldn't just whip out a knife and cut it

[Meowjin]

Maj buddy have u gotten to fat and lazy in your plush car to go freeriding nowadays?

yes. That's why I'm buying a road bike or another sasquatch to ride to work.

I'm buying my 125cc or my 250r next week though :O

[ctsport]

what about the methane gas from the crack of those hippies asses. not to mention the stank bike sweat that emits x 500. thats more a HAZMAT situation over global warming.

Revscene at it's finest! :D

[taylor192]

I'm unsure if you understand the argument you just made. An accident during rush hour isn't remotely close the critical mass as the cause of both are completely different. My argument is that critical mass PURPOSLEY creates this gridlock, while an accident isn't meant to purposely create this havoc. I'm simply saying that critical mass people do not actually realize their actions. What about parents going to pick their kids up from daycare? From school? What about having to get home to take meds? An accident will delay them in the same way as critical mass, but this group of bike riders is PURPOSELY creating the delay. What would you say if an ambulance is delayed getting over the lions gate bridge to get to a friend of yours? You'd be pissed if it was an accident, but how mad would you be if it was caused by 2000 people illegally causing this delay? Now your going to say people will move over for an amublance, but try moving 2000 people followed by 100's of cars blocking both lanes.
First let me say I don't agree with critical mass either, I think its mostly bandwagoners not actually interested in the movement, yet I do agree with the cause.

---

I've heard the "purposely" argument before, and its not valid.

Accidents are a fact of life with cars, they are going to happen and clog rush hour traffic. They happen cause we drive. This may not be "purposely" yet its "causality", so to prevent possible gridlock obstructing ambulances, we should all not drive, since driving causes accidents, that cause gridlock.

- Bikes can move out of the way easy than clearing an accident.
- If cars left the room infront of them they are supposed to (rather than stop right up on the bumper of the car infront), an ambulance getting through would be easy cause all cars would have room to move to the side.
- If this city didn't rely on cars so much, the gridlock wouldn't be so bad when there is an accident, or side streets would be available to ambulances rather than clogged with parked cars.

Lets stop focusing on critical mass being illegal, we're all not saints with our driving behaviour.

How many lawyers who live in kits would want to bike to work even if they had a bike lane? How many UBC students would bike daily? It takes longer than bussing, you end up sweaty and dirty.

Yes, it's cleaner. Yes, it's good exercise. But you know what? I live in North Burnaby, and I work downtown. 15km either way. My bus commute is 20 minutes; it would take at least twice that to bike, and it's uphill halfway regardless of the direction I travel in.
Critical mass isn't about biking, its anti-car. So good for you to take the bus. :thumbsup:

I used to meet with the military for my job, requiring dress clothes. I left a change of clothes at work and used the showers to get ready if I rode in.

All your arguments are about convenience, the very thing you're mad at that critical mass takes away from you. The irony eh? :p

[Soundy]

First let me say I don't agree with critical mass either, I think its mostly bandwagoners not actually interested in the movement, yet I do agree with the cause.

I don't think anyone here is arguing against the cause... only against the wackos who take things too far, to the point it's not even about the cause anymore, but simply about making a scene. ie. Critical Mass.

I've heard the "purposely" argument before, and its not valid.

Accidents are a fact of life with cars, they are going to happen and clog rush hour traffic. They happen cause we drive. This may not be "purposely" yet its "causality", so to prevent possible gridlock obstructing ambulances, we should all not drive, since driving causes accidents, that cause gridlock.

- Bikes can move out of the way easy than clearing an accident.
- If cars left the room infront of them they are supposed to (rather than stop right up on the bumper of the car infront), an ambulance getting through would be easy cause all cars would have room to move to the side.
- If this city didn't rely on cars so much, the gridlock wouldn't be so bad when there is an accident, or side streets would be available to ambulances rather than clogged with parked cars.

Lets stop focusing on critical mass being illegal, we're all not saints with our driving behaviour.

But that's the point: if everyone followed the rules, there wouldn't be a problem. Critical Mass are intentionally and openly flaunting the rules for the express purpose of CREATING a problem.


At best, that's mischief. At worst, it's reckless endangerment.

[taylor192]

But that's the point: if everyone followed the rules, there wouldn't be a problem. Critical Mass are intentionally and openly flaunting the rules for the express purpose of CREATING a problem.

At best, that's mischief. At worst, it's reckless endangerment.
Having moved here from Ottawa my skin is a little thicker. Its not mischief or reckless endangerment, its just a protest.

Downtown Ottawa becomes a mess during protests, yet its their right to protest, and as long as they are mostly within the law (despite the complaints here, critical mass is mostly legal) it'll be hard to charge the few protesters acting outside the law.

[Soundy]

Having moved here from Ottawa my skin is a little thicker. Its not mischief or reckless endangerment, its just a protest.

If someone dies due to someone else's willful "civil disobedience", just watch how quickly it becomes reckless endangerment.

Vancouver has its fair share of protests too - legitimate ones don't go out of their way to inconvenience the lives of hundreds or thousands of other citizens.

Downtown Ottawa becomes a mess during protests, yet its their right to protest, and as long as they are mostly within the law (despite the complaints here, critical mass is mostly legal) it'll be hard to charge the few protesters acting outside the law.

I dunno how things are in the armpit of the nation, but here in Lotusland, obstructing traffic IS against the law. Cyclists are required to follow the same rules of the road as everyone else.

[taylor192]

If someone dies due to someone else's willful "civil disobedience", just watch how quickly it becomes reckless endangerment.
Critical mass has been going on for how long?
This is LotusLand cause you're dreaming if you think this will ever happen.
Vancouver has its fair share of protests too - legitimate ones don't go out of their way to inconvenience the lives of hundreds or thousands of other citizens.
That's why Vancouver isn't the political capitol of Canada, too many lazy lefties still dreaming.
I dunno how things are in the armpit of the nation, but here in Lotusland, obstructing traffic IS against the law. Cyclists are required to follow the same rules of the road as everyone else.
You might want to stop dreaming and read your own laws.

Slow driving

145 (1) A person must not drive a motor vehicle at so slow a speed as to impede or block the normal and reasonable movement of traffic, except when reduced speed is necessary for safe operation or in compliance with law.

(2) If the driver of a motor vehicle is driving at so slow a speed as to impede or block the normal and reasonable movement of traffic, a peace officer may require the driver to increase his or her speed, or to remove the motor vehicle from the roadway to the nearest suitable place and to refrain from causing or allowing the motor vehicle to move from that place until directed to do so by a peace officer.

Considering this has been happening for years and the police have not stopped it, there's your answer to what the peace officer may require.

So you can continue with the DQ arguments about "wait till someone dies" and I'll post the stats of how many deaths cars cause vs bicycles.

[LethalLaw]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUkiyBVytRQ

[Presto]

A bicycle is not a motor vehicle, though.

[Soundy]

Considering this has been happening for years and the police have not stopped it, there's your answer to what the peace officer may require.

They don't arrest the hundreds of people who gather to smoke up in front of the Art Gallery every April 20th either... doesn't mean it's not still illegal.

THAT, by contrast, is a peaceful protest that doesn't intentionally interfere with other people's daily lives.

[+Kardboard+]

420 doesn't intentially interfere, but it unintentionally does, if I recall last Monday properly. -_-

[Soundy]

^Well put it this way: they don't go out there with the intention of disrupting the lives of everyone they disagree with.

[jeffh]

we need more people like that nypd cop. stop imposing your retarded beliefs on regular people living their lives, you dont like progress? move the fuck out of the city, i hear Barrier BC is looking for new fuckheads

[quasi]

Wheres one of those suicide bombers when you need em?

[carisear]

so i don't know what context that video is in, but it's OBVIOUS that that cyclist was singled out, and the cops were looking for him. most likely he deserved it (and not just being for a useless critical mass participant.)

[B-DiZzLe]

paintball practice anyone?

[taylor192]

^Well put it this way: they don't go out there with the intention of disrupting the lives of everyone they disagree with.
The same used to be said of gays, women and black people. If only they didn't marry, vote and still picked cotton, damn it for bothering us with their problems. :confused:

so i don't know what context that video is in, but it's OBVIOUS that that cyclist was singled out, and the cops were looking for him. most likely he deserved it (and not just being for a useless critical mass participant.)
In case any of the ignorant people in this thread want to try sometime similar, here's the result:

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/12/15/officer-to-be-indicted-in-toppling-of-cyclist/

I wouldn't want to be that officer.

[wahyinghung]

I think it's once a month on a random Friday???

*Note to self*: avoid Downtown on rush hours during Friday's @ all cost .........

[3seriesBeeM]

I hate those god damn tree hugging hippies. All they do is block traffic and piss people off i would buy a hummer and drive around every where just to spite the people from critical mass. They are not gonna change anything by pissing people off. If they want to make a difference do some useful protesting that people will listen to and get media coverage. look at how al gore works and people listen they are both promoting the same message except people actually listen to al gore

[Soundy]

The same used to be said of gays, women and black people. If only they didn't marry, vote and still picked cotton, damn it for bothering us with their problems. :confused:

There's a bit of a difference between civil rights, and the absurd notion that you can shove your bike down everyone else's throats...

[taylor192]

There's a bit of a difference between civil rights, and the absurd notion that you can shove your bike down everyone else's throats...
100 years ago there wasn't much of a difference. Those damn black people taking up room on my bus. Why don't they get their own bus? Drive on their own streets? Why are they taking up my valuable space and causing me to have to miss a crowded bus? Don't you know my time is important.

Yes, now I'm being the DQ. Funny how you don't think its a valid argument either.

Its called progress, and a lot of it happened due to protest.

[Soundy]

100 years ago there wasn't much of a difference. Those damn black people taking up room on my bus. Why don't they get their own bus? Drive on their own streets? Why are they taking up my valuable space and causing me to have to miss a crowded bus? Don't you know my time is important.

Yes, now I'm being the DQ. Funny how you don't think its a valid argument either.

Its called progress, and a lot of it happened due to protest.

Except Critical Mass aren't calling for any changes to the laws, that I've heard of... they're just out in the streets fucking up traffic for the sake of fucking up traffic.

[quasi]

LOL at comparing critical mass to the civil rights movement they couldn't be more different.

[Noir]

100 years ago there wasn't much of a difference. Those damn black people taking up room on my bus. Why don't they get their own bus? Drive on their own streets? Why are they taking up my valuable space and causing me to have to miss a crowded bus? Don't you know my time is important.

Tell that to the Black People that the denial of their civil rights ranks on the same significance as the bicycle>automobile movement.

[taylor192]

LOL at comparing critical mass to the civil rights movement they couldn't be more different.
Duh, I need a sarcasm smilie.

LOL at worrying that critical mass is going to prevent an child from seeing their dieing parent.

LOL at worrying that critical mass is going to gridlock an ambulance and kill someone.

Tell that to the Black People that the denial of their civil rights ranks on the same significance as the bicycle>automobile movement.
Hmmm I openly admit I'm being a drama queen, yet 3 people still respond.

Yep, reading comprehension isn't taught in school anymore.

[quasi]

Duh, I need a sarcasm smilie.

LOL at worrying that critical mass is going to prevent an child from seeing their dieing parent.

LOL at worrying that critical mass is going to gridlock an ambulance and kill someone.

I never said either of those things. The cyclists are just an annoyance, one that doesn't effect me I'd never be downtown at that time on a Friday.

You're the one comparing it to the civil rights movement. I really don't see how pissing off motorists is going to get them out of their cars and onto bikes. Someone will get hurt from this it's only a matter of time before someone clubs someone with a tire iron or worse.

When they figure out a way to get building materials onto a bicycle and a bike that can get me from Langley - Surrey - Richmond - Burnaby - Vancouver - Coquitlam - Surrey - Langley in a reasonable amount of time and carry all the materials and tools I need I'll get out of my truck. Until then I'll keep burning 120 liters of fuel every couple days. Oh, i also need a car seat in that bike as I pickup and drop my son off at daycare everyday. :)

[E-40six]

anyone up for this??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LHWaUILKms&feature=fvst

[Soundy]

Blacks, gays and women, as cited above, were/are fighting for rights they were denied.

Critical Mass cyclists have been denied no rights... in fact, most cities have gone to lengths to accommodate cyclists. No motorists that I know of have any issues with or prejudices against cyclists *as such*... only the arrogant ones who flaunt the rules of the roads and create hazards for others.

[ctsport]

Wheres one of those suicide bombers when you need em?

Here come the hicks! :D

[quasi]

Here come the hicks! :D

I prefer redneck, hick is derogatory. :p

[Noir]

Hmmm I openly admit I'm being a drama queen, yet 3 people still respond.

Yep, reading comprehension isn't taught in school anymore.

My reading comprehension is fine. It's just that your little disclaimer won't protect your skewered POV.

[rsx]

The thing that pisses me off about most cyclists is their total disregard for the rules of the road. They will abide whichever law that benefits their ride.

Eg: Lane splitting; When you're making a right turn and they pop out of nowhere using a non-designated lane. Fucking idiots, I've been in shouting matches with more than a few.
Eg: 4 way stops don't mean squat to these fools either.

[Noir]

The thing that pisses me off about most cyclists is their total disregard for the rules of the road. They will abide whichever law that benefits their ride.

Werd. Cyclists do take advantage of the fact that the onus of responsibility for road safety rests within the motorist > cyclist. It's what makes the Critical Mass movement so audacious.

It's almost parallel to a papparazzi antagonizing a celebrity knowing that any actions taken by the celeb would result in lawsuit against that celeb.

[Graeme S]

I understand and acknowledge that Cyclists' lives are not the best, and that life kind of sucks for them. Bicycle routes are being provided more and more frequently nowadays, especially along main commuting corridors. The Burrard Bridge cyclists lane is something that I personally feel is pointless and useless, but bicyclists seem to keep pushing for, and it seems like it'll finally get its day.

The continuing argument that I see in this thread is the right to protest: The right to protest against something you believe is unjust or for something you believe will properly represent equality.

And it is true, you have that right. But to make a protest you must be accountable. You must inform people. You must give notice.

Political rallies or other groups which know they will or otherwise intend to disrupt traffic must file permissions, including demonstration routes, and contact information for those who are organizing or who will be held responsible.

Because critical mass is the regularly-occuring version of a flash-mob, it ends up resulting exempt. And this is the essential problem.

Yes, it is true that a bicycle can get out of the way faster than a car if it is necessary for them to. However, 100+ bicycles spread out over 2-3 blocks cannot. Disrupting traffic for 4 light cycles while biking down Robson (when I observed it last summer) does not seem to be following the rules of the road.

[EuroTRASH]

anyone up for this??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LHWaUILKms&feature=fvst

That's stupid...that just fools them, doesn't hurt them at all!

I'm up for it, using a real rope.

actually what we need to do is lure them onto a bridge then blow the bridge up.

[MWR34]

http://www.globaltv.com/globaltv/bc/Vancouver+cyclists+face+ticketing+blitz/1644703/story.html

HAHAHAHA

Vancouver cyclists face ticketing blitz
Denise Ryan, Vancouver sun
Published: Friday, May 29, 2009
Cycling
Cycling
Ian Lindsay
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VANCOUVER -- There is good news and bad news for Vancouver cyclists.

The bad news is that during June, Bike Month in the city, traffic cops will be ticketing cyclists who violate the rules of the road.

The good news is that they’ll mostly be handing out “information tickets” aimed at educating bikers.

The fake tickets list all the possible violations bikers can commit — and just how much they’d be on the hook for if they get caught when the police are more focussed on enforcement than education.

Cyclists can be dinged for $109 for riding without a bell, another $109 for not having a red reflector on the rear of the bike or a light on the front. Talking on a cellphone while wheeling down the road is also worth $109.

Forget doubling your kid on the back; that’s another $109. And no, you can’t grab on to the back of a car for a free tow. Nor can you stand up on your pedals to get up that hill — if you don’t have your butt in the seat, that’s another $109.

If you bump into a pedestrian and cycle away without turning over your particulars, that’s considered a hit-and-run — and it’s a criminal offence.

“A lot of cyclists, and usually it’s the casual cyclist, may not realize they are subject to specific requirements under the Motor Vehicles Act legislation,” said Lindsey Houghton of the Vancouver Police Department.

Houghton added, “By conducting this information campaign we want to educate cyclists rather than punish them. We want to see people on bikes obeying the rules of the road.”

Houghton said that 3,730 violation tickets at $29 a pop were issued to cyclists without helmets between Jan. 1, 2008, and May 1, 2008, .

Arno Schortinghuis, president of the Vancouver Area Cycling Coalition, said many cyclists are infuriated by the campaign.

“It’s discriminatory. You would never see a police officer pulling over a car to hand out the rules of the road to a driver.”

Schortinghuis said he believes the campaign is misguided, and would prefer a campaign that addresses both drivers of vehicles and cyclists.

“Yes, cyclists are breaking the law if they don’t follow the rules of the road, but it’s not the cyclists that are going to kill or injure the driver of the car,” he said. “We want cyclists, drivers and pedestrians to be very well-educated and get where they are going as safely as possible.”

He said the money might have been better spent by policing bike routes for drivers who speed or cut around diverters meant to keep the routes car-free.

Schortinghuis complies with all VPD and city cycling bylaws, he said, including a few he considers ridiculous.

“The bell rule is totally absurd,” he said. “A bell is going to do nothing to alert a car that you’re coming. The biggest focus should be on changing behaviour of drivers.”

He said Vancouver could use improvements, such as vulnerable road user legislation, to protect cyclists, but “it’s probably safer than a lot of people think.”

He recommends bikers educate themselves through safety courses such as the one the cycling coalition offers called Streetwise.

Houghton said that during Bike Month while the information campaign is under way, real violation tickets will be issued “with a very high degree of discretion.”

While he agrees that drivers also need to be educated, he said the focus of the campaign is on bikers. “If we save one life, it’s worth it.”

dryan@vancouversun.com

Some cycling offences

Offence Ticket amount

Cycle without helmet $29

Ride cycle on sidewalk $109

Ride two abreast on roadway $109

Ride while not astride seat $109

Carry passengers on cycle $109

Ride while attached to vehicle $109

Ride without hands on handlebar $109

Cycle without due care $109

and attention

Cycle without reasonable $109

consideration

Source: Vancouver Police Department Information Ticket

[Graeme S]

Wasn't critical mass today? Anyone get caught in it?

[tiger_handheld]

^ yes. it seemed like environmentalists with bicycles.... that had a big chant... few good looking girls too - sad they belong to such cult..

[124Y]

The thing that pisses me off about most cyclists is their total disregard for the rules of the road. They will abide whichever law that benefits their ride.


Totally agree!!!!!!!!!!!! :thumbsup:

[Soundy]

The bad news is that during June, Bike Month in the city, traffic cops will be ticketing cyclists who violate the rules of the road.

Actually, that IS the good news... at least for the good, law-abiding cyclists, who have to suffer the idiot couriers and Critical Mass assholes giving them all a bad name.