[Lancerion]

Hi guys, I'm having a problem with an ebay seller recently and would like some input. Basically I bought something off this person back in March and it didn't arrive as described. The auction says the item is in excellent condition but it turned out to be played with, dirty and lots of wear. There were even broken parts that were not mentioned in the listing. He also said All sales final unless he has made some error in the listing. So I contacted the seller saying I was not satisfied with it and he responded by saying that after reviewing the listing and pics, he determined correctly that they were in excellent shelf condition and if I'm still dissatisfied I should contact ebay about it. So I reply back by saying: "You're saying from the pic, it looks excellent to you, it really makes me wonder if you even inspected the toy personally. How could you state that they're in "excellent" condition when there are chips, scuffs, chrome wear, dirt spots and sticker wear? by the way, it wasn't mentioned in the listing that "excellent" was referring to shelf condition." He never reply back so I left him a neg feedback 2 days later. A few days ago, I decided to file a dispute on Paypal. I listed exactly all the problems w/ the item and requested half my money back. He denied my request and insisted that the item was as described on our dispute message board. He also said this is my final chance to withdraw and he will call his lawyer and fight me until the end. Plus he also said I left no time for a reasonable dispute and that he tried his best dealing with an unreasonable buyer. He then escalated the dispute to a Claim. In the end, Paypal declared that I won and I'm eligible for a full refund under the Paypal Buyer Protection after I send the item back and he receives it. Just a while ago, I received an email from him saying that he has contacted his family attorney and he will be representing now until the end. He thinks that further legal activity should be filed according to my false feedback, his good record and the cost to himself. And for slander, personal cost, and deprivation of character plus legal fees and any travel expenses required in this matter. Also said that I picked the wrong person to fight with and if his items arrived even a little bit different than when he had them, he is assured his monetary case will be as good as won. Has anyone deal with anything like this? any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[Beefball]

Honestly, I would say he is just trying to BS with you. Makes you scared and give up asking for a refund. Try contacting eBay / PayPal and tell them the situation, see if they can give you a hand or some advise as well.
Make sure you have all the documents (copy of item description, bill of lading for sending the item back to the seller etc) and photos for proofs, in case IF something is going to happen which I doubt.

[hypediss]

Have you been served with a letter saying that you are being sued? That would be the first thing I'll check to see if he is bsing or not. Depending on the value of the item, if it is a coupld hundred bucks than I see no reason in hiring a lawyer as a few hours with them would already cost more than the toy.

[aznrsx1979]

Just like Beefball said, he's just trying to push you around. Make a copy of everything you have part of this transaction. I usually just pdf everything so it's in one neat file. PDF any e-mail correspondence, any photos, the e-bay page that he had for the listed item

[winson604]

Worked for eBay for over 4+ years in departments such as fraud and I've seen sellers especially powersellers try to scare buyers like this all the time. Most likely he is bsing but hey you never know I guess. Oh don't bother contacting eBay because it's already out of their hands. Buyer/seller dispute at this point.

[InvisibleSoul]

He also said this is my final chance to withdraw and he will call his lawyer and fight me until the end.

...

Just a while ago, I received an email from him saying that he has contacted his family attorney and he will be representing now until the end. He thinks that further legal activity should be filed according to my false feedback, his good record and the cost to himself. And for slander, personal cost, and deprivation of character plus legal fees and any travel expenses required in this matter. Also said that I picked the wrong person to fight with and if his items arrived even a little bit different than when he had them, he is assured his monetary case will be as good as won.

BULLSHIT

Exactly what was the cost of the item involved anyway?

Unless we're talking about at least a few thousand dollars, there is no way he can justify spending money on a lawyer.

[El Bastardo]

^^ +1


I used to work for eBay and I know you can't sue for any of those reasons. Tell his attorney to contact you directly. Call his bluff.

[GLOW]

"He thinks that further legal activity should be filed according to my false feedback, his good record and the cost to himself. And for slander, personal cost, and deprivation of character plus legal fees and any travel expenses required in this matter. Also said that I picked the wrong person to fight with and if his items arrived even a little bit different than when he had them, he is assured his monetary case will be as good as won."

I worked for ebay before too and i just ROFL at the above statement, "slander" & "false feedback" are instant red flags for BS :haha::haha::haha:
he already lost the paypal dispute, game over.

this is as funny as anthony anderson calling Jet Li 'dim sum'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8YsH2xIlTg

[Orion]

BULLSHIT

Exactly what was the cost of the item involved anyway?

Unless we're talking about at least a few thousand dollars, there is no way he can justify spending money on a lawyer.


i agree... plus you won't have to cover any of his cost... even if he won the case...

I don't know about in the states but in Canada most of the law is written to protect buyers more than sellers. Often buyers can sue sellers but most of the cases not vice versa.

I would ignore his bluff and reply professionally to everything related.

[Shun Izaki]

The worst fucking thing is when things don't arrive as per described. I mean... why should I pay shipping on something YOU fucked up on?

+1 for having friends worked at eBay, this is bullshit

[hotjoint]

I had a similar case with an item not being as described when I received it, I filed a paypal claim and won but the seller never threatened any legal action against me. They're just bsing u and trying to scare u. All this over a toy? The toy better be expensive if they're going to all this trouble

[miss_crayon]

i wanna hear how this plays out.
i say you got nothing to be worried about. let him sue you or whatever cause it doesn't sound like he has a good enough case. plus he kinda threatened you by saying how you messed with the wrong person.

[El Bastardo]

i wanna hear how this plays out.




+1. You have an obligation (as all RS members do when they post a "I'm having eBay problems" thread) to let us know what happens.

Look what happened with that bitch who thought she overpaid for that jersey she bought. She sucked it up and left a little negative feedback but at the end of the day, she was still wrong.

[bing]

yeah, seller is trying to bullshit and scare you. Just don't let him push you around. If you paid with paypal just dispute it by opening a new claim.

and always, request the full amount of money back including shipping charges (it will help your chances of winning your claim).

[Rev]

Say you got her on your side and post his replies!! ROFL
http://www.visitallan.biz/neowin/fail-judgeJudy.jpg

[mickz]

How much did you even pay for your item? I have a feeling the seller is just trying to scare you out of your refund and it won't be worth it for him to sue over a small amount.

[Lancerion]

Thanks for the replies everyone. The item cost around $200CAN including the shipping and everything. This guy made no effort to work this out at all after I emailed him saying I'm not satisfied. Told me to contact ebay and I filed a dispute (which I won) and now giving me all this crap. Will update you all later.

[Harvey Specter]

The seller isn't going to sue you, he's trying to scare you. If you won your dispute with Paypal, send the item back and let the seller refund your money. You can also file a chargeback if the seller decides not to refund your money after sending the item back.

[Lancerion]

If I do sent it back, what if the seller refused to accept delivery on the item? Paypal requires delivery confirmation (which the buyer won't get if delivery is refused) before issuing the refund.

[InvisibleSoul]

I don't know the answer for sure, but I'm guessing that if you show proof that you tried to send the item back to the seller at the correct address, but the seller refused to accept it, then I can't see how they won't see that the seller is a douchebag and rule in your favour and give you your refund anyway.

[Preemo]

Either way. His court fees would be more than the item you bought. (Assuming.)

Call his bluff. Tell him to eff off. Collect your money and you are now wiser.

[quasi]

LOL. he can't do anything legally, I'd tell him to suck my left nut.

[Lancerion]

This is the message he sent me after I won the Paypal dispute, what do you guys think?

Hello, this message is simply to inform you of the actions I will be taking against you. First off I have contacted our family's attorney, James Spiegler, and he will be representing in this matter until its conclusion. According to your false feedback, my good record (much better than your own), and cost to myself, it has become apparent that further legal civil charges should be filed. Further investigation into Canadian law will allow me to elaborate but for slander, personal cost, and deprivation of character we are looking for $532.47 plus legal fees and any travel expenses required in this matter (including the purchaSe of visa if necessary). On a personal note, that I'm assured won't hurt our case, you picked a fight with the wrong person. Also, if my items arrive even a tiny spec different than when I had them, I'm assured my monetary case will be as good as won. No matter what you will pay more. Good Day

As for the good record he was mentioning, I have 53 feedbacks and is 100% Positive while he has 473 but 99.3% Positive. Just because he has more feedback that doesn't mean it is much better than mine.

[quasi]

Either way. His court fees would be more than the item you bought. (Assuming.)


Sometimes people don't care about the money not that it's relevant in this case. To the point of legal fees being more then the actual amount we have something like that going on right now at work. Long story short this guy rips us off for 14 grand on a restaurant contract. He tries to offer us 7K to settle we tell him we won't take anything less then 12K. His lawyer tells us that the 7 is final and if we go to court we'll be lucky to get 6K.

At the end of the day it's going to cost his client a hell of a lot more then the original $14,000 after he pays his lawyer, costs plus whatever we win (We will win). At the end of the day the only people to come out ahead will be the lawyers but it's all good as revenge is sweet and we've already wrote the money off. The goal changed from recouping money to costing this guy as much money as possible.

[CorneringArtist]

Who the fuck hires a lawyer for "defamation of character" over the freaking Internet. Dude makes serious business, and would go out of his way just to keep a couple hundred bucks?

That letter looks fabricated, so call the bluff since he's probably scared other people shitless as well.

Like everyone else here, I'm rootin' for ya.

[El Bastardo]

This is the message he sent me after I won the Paypal dispute, what do you guys think?


As for the good record he was mentioning, I have 53 feedbacks and is 100% Positive while he has 473 but 99.3% Positive. Just because he has more feedback that doesn't mean it is much better than mine.



No. Hes got a lower ratio of positive which is good for you. I'd tell him to bring it. In the mean time you'll find a real seller who won't rip you off.

[Harvey Specter]

This is the message he sent me after I won the Paypal dispute, what do you guys think?


As for the good record he was mentioning, I have 53 feedbacks and is 100% Positive while he has 473 but 99.3% Positive. Just because he has more feedback that doesn't mean it is much better than mine.

What's his username?

[Lancerion]

I just called Paypal and they told me as long as I have a tracking number provided, I will be guaranteed my refund whether he accepts the package or not when it arrives at his place since I did my part of returning the item. But the cost for shipping the item back will be out of my pocket :(

[murd0c]

I just called Paypal and they told me as long as I have a tracking number provided, I will be guaranteed my refund whether he accepts the package or not when it arrives at his place since I did my part of returning the item. But the cost for shipping the item back will be out of my pocket :(

oh well thats still better then loseing out completly. and if it's in the states dont worry about it their pubilc court system cant effect us up here.

[46_valentinor]

exact same situation happened to me a while back. i bought a front r6 rim and the seller said it was in excellent condition, when it arrived it was shit. burnaby kawasaki even refused to mount a tire on it, saying that it is EXTREMELY dangerous. So i filed a dispute with paypal and won, i just had to shipped the item back and provide a tracking number to paypal. A week later i get an email from paypal saying that i lost the dispute because the item was never recieved...so i rechecked the tracking number i gave paypal and also checked the status on the carriers site and guess what i see, the item was delivered and signed a few days before paypal sent me the email. At that point i didn't know what to do because paypal said the case is officially closed and i lost 300bux canadian...so i just kinda sucked it up...=/

[Harvey Specter]

^
You're stressing out too much. Just send the package back but use UPS or FedEx, I had issues with Canadapost in the past (no signature, no delivery name) and be done with this clown. I've been buying and selling on eBay since 2000 and I can fill this entire page with problems I've had.

[Lancerion]

No. Hes got a lower ratio of positive which is good for you. I'd tell him to bring it. In the mean time you'll find a real seller who won't rip you off.

I only received one or two not as described items in the past and all of those sellers was willing to work out the situation with me. But dealing with a guy like this is definitely a first.

oh well thats still better then loseing out completly. and if it's in the states dont worry about it their pubilc court system cant effect us up here.

That's good to hear. Ya he's in the States.

[CorneringArtist]

That's good to hear. Ya he's in the States.

Out of jurisdiction case FTW.

[Lancerion]

exact same situation happened to me a while back. i bought a front r6 rim and the seller said it was in excellent condition, when it arrived it was shit. burnaby kawasaki even refused to mount a tire on it, saying that it is EXTREMELY dangerous. So i filed a dispute with paypal and won, i just had to shipped the item back and provide a tracking number to paypal. A week later i get an email from paypal saying that i lost the dispute because the item was never recieved...so i rechecked the tracking number i gave paypal and also checked the status on the carriers site and guess what i see, the item was delivered and signed a few days before paypal sent me the email. At that point i didn't know what to do because paypal said the case is officially closed and i lost 300bux canadian...so i just kinda sucked it up...=/

That's weird, cuz after reading your post I called Paypal again and they say it doesn't matter how long it takes to get there (as long as it's something reasonable like 1-2 weeks). Why did they close your case if it was only a week later?

[rslater]

Did you take pictures of the item before you sent it back?

[46_valentinor]

i don't know why they closed the case, they said the item was never delivered even though i provided them with the correct tracking number and the item was already received when they sent me the email...

[InvisibleSoul]

exact same situation happened to me a while back. i bought a front r6 rim and the seller said it was in excellent condition, when it arrived it was shit. burnaby kawasaki even refused to mount a tire on it, saying that it is EXTREMELY dangerous. So i filed a dispute with paypal and won, i just had to shipped the item back and provide a tracking number to paypal. A week later i get an email from paypal saying that i lost the dispute because the item was never recieved...so i rechecked the tracking number i gave paypal and also checked the status on the carriers site and guess what i see, the item was delivered and signed a few days before paypal sent me the email. At that point i didn't know what to do because paypal said the case is officially closed and i lost 300bux canadian...so i just kinda sucked it up...=/

Wow, that seriously sucks...

PayPal sucks too.

[terkan]

Yea, I remember buying multiple items off ebay and one of the items were supposed to be in "mint condition". Ended up with scratches and crap all over the place, and I filed a dispute but ultimately canceled the dispute because tracked shipping back would be more than the cost of the item itself.

He went through with the same bs that your seller gave me except he didn't threaten to sue me. What he did instead was do the old "i'm gonna get ebay to remove your acccount for providing false feedback waah waaah waaaaah". I just ignored him and decided to screw him over in negative feedbacks by staggering my feedbacks left one month at a time so he'd get at least one negative feedback per page. 5 negative feedbacks ftw.

[Uncle Benz]

I am a lawyer and I can tell you if I were you I would not worry about anything. You should already know by now that the seller is trying to scare you. As others have already advised don't fall for his bluff. He's just making up generic phrases to try to scare you. If he's getting the info from his lawyer, then his lawyer doesn't know anything.

I can give you a quick inside on the law here and how it would likely play out just because I find the seller's conduct funny.

Despite the fact he's in the US he can still file a claim here in Canada, but it's not worth it over $200 because it would end up costing him a grand or two to bring a action in small claims court, that includes, drafting a statement of claim, process servers, court fees etc.... Even if he is stubborn enough to file a claim his chance of success would be next to none, keep in mind just because you file a claim doesn't mean you win. When he looses he would get zero for his cost and you would likely receive 80%-100% cost on substantial indemnity scale just because the guy would be seen as quite unreasonable. If not then you would likely receive 40%-60% of your cost on a partial indemnity scale.

Now on to Slander

Slander applies to oral statements, and they must actually cause harm to a person's reputation, and the person must prove that the harm caused to their reputation resulted in a financial loss. The only defence available in a actual Slander case is the truth. So making a actual true statement about someone doesn't equal Slander.

Lible applies to written statements attacking a person's reputation. You are always liable for publishing defamatory comments (IF they are defamatory), that relates more to newspapers and magazines. However, most likely whatever you wrote down in the negative feedback on ebay will not count as a defamatory comment, and he has to prove it was defmatory and caused a harm to this reputation. Financial loss is assumed and the Judge decides the financial compensation. So as long as you posted a true statement based on your experience with this seller, it's not defamatory, and is not Lible.

[hotjoint]

you'll be fine man, dont sweat it, paypal holds the funds from the sellers paypal account, the minute they have proof that u sent the item back and whether or not the seller accept it, you'll get ur money back.

[Shun Izaki]

I am a lawyer and I can tell you if I were you I would not worry about anything. You should already know by now that the seller is trying to scare you. As others have already advised don't fall for his bluff. He's just making up generic phrases to try to scare you. If he's getting the info from his lawyer, then his lawyer doesn't know anything.

I can give you a quick inside on the law here and how it would likely play out just because I find the seller's conduct funny.

Despite the fact he's in the US he can still file a claim here in Canada, but it's not worth it over $200 because it would end up costing him a grand or two to bring a action in small claims court, that includes, drafting a statement of claim, process servers, court fees etc.... Even if he is stubborn enough to file a claim his chance of success would be next to none, keep in mind just because you file a claim doesn't mean you win. When he looses he would get zero for his cost and you would likely receive 80%-100% cost on substantial indemnity scale just because the guy would be seen as quite unreasonable. If not then you would likely receive 40%-60% of your cost on a partial indemnity scale.

Now on to Slander

Slander applies to oral statements, and they must actually cause harm to a person's reputation, and the person must prove that the harm caused to their reputation resulted in a financial loss. The only defence available in a actual Slander case is the truth. So making a actual true statement about someone doesn't equal Slander.

Lible applies to written statements attacking a person's reputation. You are always liable for publishing defamatory comments (IF they are defamatory), that relates more to newspapers and magazines. However, most likely whatever you wrote down in the negative feedback on ebay will not count as a defamatory comment, and he has to prove it was defmatory and caused a harm to this reputation. Financial loss is assumed and the Judge decides the financial compensation. So as long as you posted a true statement based on your experience with this seller, it's not defamatory, and is not Lible.

RS beach justice. We should just sue this guy's ass for being a jerk.

[zulutango]

"deprivation of character".....did you deprive him of his character? If this is the best he can do after talking to his family lawyer (sure to be an expert in international trade & commerce & internet fraud???), then I wouldn't lose sleep over it. His lawyer can't even tell him of the correct terms to use...like "defamation of character"? What sort of travel expenses and visa cost is he thinking of? A trip to Disneyland?

[InvisibleSoul]

He went through with the same bs that your seller gave me except he didn't threaten to sue me. What he did instead was do the old "i'm gonna get ebay to remove your acccount for providing false feedback waah waaah waaaaah". I just ignored him and decided to screw him over in negative feedbacks by staggering my feedbacks left one month at a time so he'd get at least one negative feedback per page. 5 negative feedbacks ftw.

How did you do that? You only have 60 days after the end of the auction to leave feedback. And even if you left five negative feedbacks, it only counts towards his rating once...

[nipples]

VISA?? to come to canada?

is this one of those like...nigerian scams?

oh wow, i'd love to meet this seller hahahahah. i'd have a field day

[mickz]

How did you do that? You only have 60 days after the end of the auction to leave feedback. And even if you left five negative feedbacks, it only counts towards his rating once...

I believe eBay changed it now. You can leave multiple feedback for the same member that can affect his rating more than once as long as it's not in the same week.