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05-06-2009, 03:11 PM
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#1 | | y'all better put some respeck on my name
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| Physicists: Star Trek's Warp Drive Is Not Impossible
The warp drive, one of Star Trek's hallmark inventions, could someday become science instead of science fiction.
Some physicists say the faster-than-light travel technology may one day enable humans to jet between stars for weekend getaways. Clearly it won't be an easy task. The science is complex, but not strictly impossible, according to some researchers studying how to make it happen.
The trick seems to be to find some other means of propulsion besides rockets, which would never be able to accelerate a ship to velocities faster than that of light, the fundamental speed limit set by Einstein's General Relativity.
Luckily for us, this speed limit only applies within space-time (the continuum of three dimensions of space plus one of time that we live in). While any given object can't travel faster than light speed within space-time, theory holds, perhaps space-time itself could travel.
"The idea is that you take a chunk of space-time and move it," said Marc Millis, former head of NASA's Breakthrough Propulsion Physics Project. "The vehicle inside that bubble thinks that it's not moving at all. It's the space-time that's moving."
Already happened?
One reason this idea seems credible is that scientists think it may already have happened. Some models suggest that space-time expanded at a rate faster than light speed during a period of rapid inflation shortly after the Big Bang.
"If it could do it for the Big Bang, why not for our space drives?" Millis said.
To make the technique feasible, scientists will have to think of some creative new means of propulsion to move space-time rather than a spaceship.
According to General Relativity, any concentration of mass or energy warps space-time around it (by this reasoning, gravity is simply the curvature of space-time that causes smaller masses to fall inward toward larger masses).
So perhaps some unique geometry of mass or exotic form of energy can manipulate a bubble of space-time so that it moves faster than light-speed, and carries any objects within it along for the ride.
"If we find some way to alter the properties of space-time in an imbalanced fashion, so behind the spacecraft it's doing one thing and in front of it it's doing something else, will then space-time push on the craft and move it?" Millis said. This idea was first proposed in 1994 by physicist Miguel Alcubierre.
In the lab
Already some studies have claimed to find possible signatures of moving space-time. For example, scientists rotated super-cold rings in a lab. They found that still gyroscopes placed above the rings seem to think they themselves are rotating simply because of the presence of the spinning rings beneath. The researchers postulated that the ultra-cold rings were somehow dragging space-time, and the gyroscope was detecting the effect.
Other studies found that the region between two parallel uncharged metal plates seems to have less energy than the surrounding space. Scientists have termed this a kind of "negative energy," which might be just the thing needed to move space-time.
The catch is that massive amounts of this negative energy would probably be required to warp space-time enough to transport a bubble faster than light speed. Huge breakthroughs will be needed not just in propulsion but in energy. Some experts think harnessing the mysterious force called dark energy — thought to power the acceleration of the universe's expansion — could provide the key.
Even though it's a far cry between these preliminary lab results and actual warp drives, some physicists are optimistic.
"We still don't even know if those things are possible or impossible, but at least we've progressed far enough to where there are things that we can actually research to chip away at the unknowns," Millis told SPACE.com. "Even if they turn out to be impossible, by asking these questions, we're likely to discover things that otherwise we might overlook." http://news.yahoo.com/s/space/200905...enotimpossible | 
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05-06-2009, 03:30 PM
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#2 | | Banned By Establishment
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isn't the whole idea of a warp drive is to create a warp field which alters the laws of physics for that "ship" and therefore doesn't let those 3 dimensional problems apply?
The other theory was that it doesn't move the ship, it moves everything else around it.
Quantum physics is fun stuff.
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05-06-2009, 03:35 PM
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#3 | | RS.net, helping ugly ppl have sex since 2001
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my brain hurts.
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05-06-2009, 03:37 PM
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#4 | | HELP ME PLS!!!
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I still think that an Alcubierre warp drive is the likeliest way that this will happen... somehow. :P
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05-06-2009, 03:37 PM
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#5 | | Official Texas Ambassador
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What if I want to use the microwave oven at warp speed? Will it have an effect like if I put a foil wrapped burrito in there? Because thats bad news.
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05-06-2009, 03:58 PM
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#6 | | Banned By Establishment
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| Quote:
Originally Posted by El Bastardo  What if I want to use the microwave oven at warp speed? Will it have an effect like if I put a foil wrapped burrito in there? Because thats bad news. |
Replicators my dear friend... replicators.
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05-06-2009, 04:01 PM
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#7 | | Official Texas Ambassador
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Can Star Trek-style replicators replicate a Fleshlight for those of us.. er.. those of you who have long lonely nights?
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05-06-2009, 04:03 PM
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#8 | | racing & tech mod.
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When I pickup my coffee cup here, am I moving the coffee cup, or maybe, am I moving the entire universe around it? LOL.
I think the idea is kinda like swimming. When you swim, you are kinda pushing water around you so that you move forward. I guess if you figure out a way to push/move time & space (treating it like water) you can move yourself in ways that would otherwise be impossible.
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05-06-2009, 04:26 PM
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#9 | | In RS I Trust
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Originally Posted by sf666@BNR32 Replicators my dear friend... replicators. | the replicators are evil and tried to take over the universe tho  | |
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05-06-2009, 04:34 PM
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#10 | | I contribute to threads in the offtopic forum
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Originally Posted by murd0c the replicators are evil and tried to take over the universe tho | replicators = stargate
borg = star trek
magog = andromeda
peacekeepers = farscape
cylon = bsg
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05-06-2009, 04:56 PM
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#11 | | I Will not Admit my Addiction to RS
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We are all Cylons.
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05-06-2009, 05:11 PM
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#12 | | I contribute to threads in the offtopic forum
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Originally Posted by Rich Sandor When I pickup my coffee cup here, am I moving the coffee cup, or maybe, am I moving the entire universe around it? LOL.
I think the idea is kinda like swimming. When you swim, you are kinda pushing water around you so that you move forward. I guess if you figure out a way to push/move time & space (treating it like water) you can move yourself in ways that would otherwise be impossible. | thats just normal propulsion...push and you move forward. What we need is to pop in at one place in the swimming pool and pop out at another place without swimming. Basically bend the pool.
obviously the missing link is antimatter and dilithium crystals!
__________________ LClock 1.62b pinkbaby(aka pinkbuggy): (_\._) :p
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05-06-2009, 06:03 PM
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#13 | | I know more than a tricorder
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I have read a few articles and the like about this type of theory in propulsion over the years, and I have come to only one somewhat firm conclusion:
The only way humanity will be able to make the type of incredibly explosive, yet completely controlled energy required for any of the proposed light-speed vessels in any semblance of the "near-future" is artificially created anti-matter. However, production of enough anti-matter to use for any real application would cost virtually infinite amounts of money.
Some researchers claim that with current technology, it is possible to obtain antimatter for US$25 million per gram. That's at least $15,500,000,000,000 (15.5 Quadrillion) to produce the kilogram needed to equal the energy of the largest hydrogen bomb ever, the Tsar Bomba (~50 megatons).
There is another problem that rarely comes up in interstellar/light speed conversations, and that is the issue of space dust.
Although there have been developments in magnet based "shield" technology, there has been nothing even close to powerful enough to filter out the infinite levels of space dust and tiny rock and ice fragments that are out there - and that could potentially destroy any craft or vessel that hits them at high speeds.
(In Star Trek this system is the deflector shield)
I believe that by the time a power source and a propulsion system is figured out - if it ever is - the problem of space debris won't exist, but its an interesting little bump in the road to insterstellar travel.
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Last edited by Oversight; 05-06-2009 at 06:32 PM.
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05-06-2009, 06:42 PM
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#14 | | I WANT MY 10 YEARS BACK FROM RS.net!
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^I've also seen a lot of discussion on the viability of the matter/energy transporter system... and pretty much any working system would also require hideous amounts of energy.
What it comes down to, just about all of the technology in Star Trek is theoretically possible... and almost all of it would require extreme input of energy to operate. Once that energy source is figured out - generating, and more importantly CONTROLLING the energy required - the rest should come easy.
(Stargate figured out the same thing - massive energies required for creating wormholes and running hyperdrive... their answer was the ZPM).
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05-06-2009, 06:59 PM
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#15 | | Banned By Establishment
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05-06-2009, 06:59 PM
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#16 | | My dinner reheated before my turbo spooled
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yah i heard of this before
haha my physics teacher told me about it back in high school
they apparently have a lot of good science and physics advisers for that show...
but shit..
have u guys seen event horizon??
that shits scary son
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Last edited by StaxBundlez; 05-06-2009 at 07:08 PM.
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05-06-2009, 07:18 PM
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#17 | | I WANT MY 10 YEARS BACK FROM RS.net!
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__________________ Quote:
Originally Posted by Godzira Does anyone know how many to a signature? | ..
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Originally Posted by Brianrietta Not a sebberry post goes by where I don't frown and think to myself "so..?" | | |
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05-06-2009, 07:54 PM
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#18 | | RS has made me the bitter person i am today!
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so if we weld two pieces of uncharged metal plates to a plane we can go super fast? better try it on my civic !
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05-06-2009, 08:06 PM
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#19 | | Hacked RS to become a mod
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Check out the book "Science of Star Trek" it's pretty fascinating
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05-06-2009, 08:15 PM
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#20 | | I WANT MY 10 YEARS BACK FROM RS.net!
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__________________ Quote:
Originally Posted by Godzira Does anyone know how many to a signature? | ..
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Originally Posted by Brianrietta Not a sebberry post goes by where I don't frown and think to myself "so..?" | | |
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05-06-2009, 08:47 PM
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#21 | | Official Texas Ambassador
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Originally Posted by scheng924 replicators = stargate
borg = star trek
magog = andromeda
peacekeepers = farscape
cylon = bsg |
Replicants = Blade Runner
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05-07-2009, 12:32 AM
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#22 | | Banned By Establishment
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They told Zefram the same thing I'm sure, until that fateful day in Bozeman....
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05-07-2009, 01:19 AM
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#23 | | The "You'd Know" Moderator
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Originally Posted by El Bastardo Can Star Trek-style replicators replicate a Fleshlight for those of us.. er.. those of you who have long lonely nights? | No, you will have your own holodeck.
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Ezekiel 25:17. The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness. For he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know I am the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you. | |
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05-07-2009, 05:50 AM
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#24 | | My homepage has been set to RS
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some problems that arises:
- moving at the speed of light or faster poses a problem with space debris. imagine hitting a stray rock at the speed of light. thats instant fail.
- creating anti-matter will definitely give you unlimited energy but also run the risk of creating a black hole, which if achieved, will suck all of earth to nothing.
- human flesh is not structured to handle so much G-force so moving at the speed of light will make ground pork out of you.
- given the fact that space is uncharted area, travelling through it will leave u wondering where the heck you are. doesnt make sense to go somewhere you dont know let alone getting back. Compass dont work in space to those who are science-handicapped.
- For those who are unaware, we have stars 300 times bigger than the sun so going to space at hyperspeeds blindly and without knowledge of what lies ahead might send you wishing upon a star.
-and lastly, imagine travelling at light speed to a destination point and suddenly ur ship breaks down (low coolant, empty brake fluid, needs new timing belt, etc) how the heck are u gonna go back? unless there's lightspeed hitchhiking your space waste.
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05-07-2009, 05:51 AM
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#25 | | Hacked RS to become a mod
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| Quote:
Originally Posted by haymura some problems that arises:
- moving at the speed of light or faster poses a problem with space debris. imagine hitting a stray rock at the speed of light. thats instant fail.
- creating anti-matter will definitely give you unlimited energy but also run the risk of creating a black hole, which if achieved, will suck all of earth to nothing.
- human flesh is not structured to handle so much G-force so moving at the speed of light will make ground pork out of you.
- given the fact that space is uncharted area, travelling through it will leave u wondering where the heck you are. doesnt make sense to go somewhere you dont know let alone getting back. Compass dont work in space to those who are science-handicapped.
- For those who are unaware, we have stars 300 times bigger than the sun so going to space at hyperspeeds blindly and without knowledge of what lies ahead might send you wishing upon a star.
-and lastly, imagine travelling at light speed to a destination point and suddenly ur ship breaks down (low coolant, empty brake fluid, needs new timing belt, etc) how the heck are u gonna go back? unless there's lightspeed hitchhiking your space waste. | You didn't read anything about warp theory, did you?
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