[FS1992EG]

I was reading this article about what Gordan Campbell is doing to BC's rivers

http://www.straight.com/print/12380

I don't know why we still vote for liberals to be in power and running our government, there just two faced in my opinion.

http://couragemyfriends.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/gordon_campbell_arrested_dui2.jpg

If you remember this picture, its really classic,the moron is smiling too!:eek:, I don't know why the public didn't make him step down as premier Glen Clark did in the past.

I know the NDP's past of the fast cat ferries which is their Epic Fail but really the NDP are safer, I rather have the Fast cat ferries, lower tuition for secondary schools, more teachers in schools, better waiting times are hospitals, and better medicare that the liberals are cutting by the way and making us pay for services/treatment out of pocket even though we pay 54 dollars a month which is supposed to cover us.

Than privatizing the rivers so we pay more for hydro, building shit bridges, selling BC rail, getting drunk in Hawaii, doing nothing about gangland shooting, slapping wrists on career criminals, NDP hands down are a much better choice to run BC right now.

Seriously Gordan Campbell announced that the 10 lane bridge connecting Surrey and Coquitlum is going to finished 1 year early, WTF... I don't think that anyone from the public has approve that design. First I would add solar panels to form a roof over the bridge to produce solar power to power BC homes, I would also add thermal elements in the payment of the bridge to prevent black ice one cold days and melt snow in the winter months. I would also add 3 bullet train rails connected under the new bridge to connect us with the bullet train route that is proposed to come to Vancouver from Seattle and Portland.

I just saw the thread about China's spending 32 billion on rail system and its just sick. When the Chinese international students come here to study, their just going to laugh at our poorly designed bridge and piss their pants at the cost of building it.

We already seen the New Convention Center in Vancouver and that was a epic fail. Its was over budget, no one seemed to care. Homelessness is still huge, Campbell said that their would be no homeless in Vancouver by 2010, that's not going to happen, failed.We as Canadians are a compassionate people and we need more social assistance for the drug addicted and less fortunate, he failed again. He widened the Sea to Sky Hwy pointless, they should have thrown a barrier in place to stop morons from crossing over the center line and killing innocent people who drive carefully. Patillo bridge is still here, still killing people, still no barrier, just cones in the center to make the bridge at a little more orange.:haha:

Oh, the board on Trans link is doing a really shitty job at the moment, I am all for having more buses which is great, cheap transportation, but the way the go about funding their pet projects is ridiculous, raising property taxes to fund those new bus, trying to add a new car tax to fund public transport. If half of people who drive a car to work shouldn't have to pay a new car tax to fund buses and other things Trans link is cooking up. They have car because its people's personal preference to drive cars, plus the insurance they pay, maintenance and general up keep. Having a car in Vancouver is pretty expensive, charging a tax is not a good way of raising money.

I think that if we don't pay attention on what Gordan Campbell is doing we are all going to be fucked.;)

[Derek_N84]

:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

I would seriously consider moving out of BC if NDP came into power during this time of economic difficulty.

[El Bastardo]

$25.

Am I lowballing? Someone tell me if I'm lowballing

[dai3yuen]

Although, I hate Campbell, I do believe that the Liberals are what's best for BC at the moment. The current NDP does not have what it takes (read: Carol James).

That being said, I will be voting NDP as I do believe that the Liberals will win the election, but I think that a Liberal government with a strong NDP opposition is what BC really needs.

[taylor192]

There are so many things wrong with your post.

If you remember this picture, its really classic,the moron is smiling too!:eek:, I don't know why the public didn't make him step down as premier Glen Clark did in the past.
and the point of posting this way? more sensationalism?

Did you know if we held JFK to the same political standards we do today, he would have never been elected. Politics shouldn't be the popularity contest people like you make it out to be... and you're a fucking lefty who's suposed to be above that petty politics. :rolleyes:

I know the NDP's past of the fast cat ferries which is their Epic Fail but really the NDP are safer, I rather have the Fast cat ferries, lower tuition for secondary schools, more teachers in schools, better waiting times are hospitals, and better medicare that the liberals are cutting by the way and making us pay for services/treatment out of pocket even though we pay 54 dollars a month which is supposed to cover us.
Health care has become a problem and NO PROVINCE HAS SOLVED IT including provinces with left governments.

I disagree with the lower tuition, university has become a haven to grads who obtain worthless degrees, and by your posts you haven't learned much from school, aka worthless.

Than privatizing the rivers so we pay more for hydro, building shit bridges, selling BC rail, getting drunk in Hawaii, doing nothing about gangland shooting, slapping wrists on career criminals, NDP hands down are a much better choice to run BC right now.

There's so much wrong here I need bullets:
- privatizing rivers is false, since the public wasn't doing anything with them in the first place
- the new bridges are awesome, its the streets the bridges cannot solve. You can put wider bridges, 2 bridges, ... yet unless you widen the city streets it will not help.
- why keep BC Rail? Lets here a good argument, since the US works very well with privatized rail, hell it built their country!
- why harp on the DUI again? more sensationalism cause you don't have much else to say
- follow the news, the increased police force made a bunch of arrests, seems to have worked unlike the lefties that wouldn't have done anything
- the lefties slap wrists and constantly block measures for tougher punishments federally, please keep up with Canadian politics
- the NDP are the worst choice right now, for all the above reasons and more

Seriously Gordan Campbell announced that the 10 lane bridge connecting Surrey and Coquitlum is going to finished 1 year early, WTF... I don't think that anyone from the public has approve that design. First I would add solar panels to form a roof over the bridge to produce solar power to power BC homes, I would also add thermal elements in the payment of the bridge to prevent black ice one cold days and melt snow in the winter months. I would also add 3 bullet train rails connected under the new bridge to connect us with the bullet train route that is proposed to come to Vancouver from Seattle and Portland.

I just saw the thread about China's spending 32 billion on rail system and its just sick. When the Chinese international students come here to study, their just going to laugh at our poorly designed bridge and piss their pants at the cost of building it.
Good ideas, do you have $32B to fund this? I don't, and the increase in taxes to cover such elaborate projects would hurt our pocketbooks.

Do you know how the Chinese pay for their infrastructure? Look it up and come back without such ignorant arguments.

Here's an example:
BC can build more public power plants, borrowing money and increasing taxes to pay for it. Or we can let private companies build them and charge us more for electricity to cover their costs. Either way WE ARE PAYING THE BILL via increased costs or increases taxes. Personally I'd rather increases costs, cause I can control how much I use, I cannot control how much the government takes from my paycheque.

We already seen the New Convention Center in Vancouver and that was a epic fail. Its was over budget, no one seemed to care.
It was over budget, yet its done and will be used. Cannot say the same of the fast ferries.

Homelessness is still huge, Campbell said that their would be no homeless in Vancouver by 2010, that's not going to happen, failed.We as Canadians are a compassionate people and we need more social assistance for the drug addicted and less fortunate, he failed again.
If the lefties would allow society to institutionalism the mentally ill, then homelessness might be defeated. Instead the left gave the mentally ill the right to accept government handouts while roaming the streets as prey for drug dealers.

We've tried the lefty solution to end homeless by catering to their needs, and it hasn't worked. We need a true "right" approach, not more homeless hugging left policies.


He widened the Sea to Sky Hwy pointless, they should have thrown a barrier in place to stop morons from crossing over the center line and killing innocent people who drive carefully. Patillo bridge is still here, still killing people, still no barrier, just cones in the center to make the bridge at a little more orange.:haha:
Pointless unless you consider the area served by the SeaToSky pumps a lot of money into the economy, and better serving that area should be a huge plus for the economy.

Perhaps Oak st needs a barrier down the middle too, since any street where cars can do 80+ will be a death trap. Or perhaps drivers should get proper tires and stop taking on their cell phone. I hate you lefties that think the government is responsible for forcing you into how to be safe.

Any personal responsibility seems to be missing from the left.

Oh, the board on Trans link is doing a really shitty job at the moment, I am all for having more buses which is great, cheap transportation, but the way the go about funding their pet projects is ridiculous, raising property taxes to fund those new bus, trying to add a new car tax to fund public transport. If half of people who drive a car to work shouldn't have to pay a new car tax to fund buses and other things Trans link is cooking up. They have car because its people's personal preference to drive cars, plus the insurance they pay, maintenance and general up keep. Having a car in Vancouver is pretty expensive, charging a tax is not a good way of raising money.
Dude, this is where you show your complete and utter stupidity. That's a CONSERVATIVE argument, not NDP.

NDP believes in taxing people to pay for public projects, thus increasing taxes on cars and houses to pay for public transportation. Perhaps you should look up your own NDP policies.

Please don't post anymore political opinions again, you're sadly misinformed ignorant sheep that just goes with what the media spoon feeds you. If this is the education my tax dollars subsidizes, I hope they triple tuition so people like you cannot attend school.

[taylor192]

Although, I hate Campbell, I do believe that the Liberals are what's best for BC at the moment. The current NDP does not have what it takes (read: Carol James).

That being said, I will be voting NDP as I do believe that the Liberals will win the election, but I think that a Liberal government with a strong NDP opposition is what BC really needs.
Please don't, the race is so tight that many Greens are considering voting NDP too, and we could very well have an NDP majority.

[Gridlock]

Taylor-Thank you! Beautiful post man.

I tend to feel that any party left in power is a bad thing as the sense of entitlement takes them beyond their mandate. Paul Martin Liberals are a great example.

Now is not the time to make that change.

Carol James needs to remember right now that everyone remembers the 90's. They created their own recession. We don't need to start them off with one.

[asahai69]

ill vote liberal cuz carole james is a dumb bitch with caterpillar eyebrows. i cant believe the moron wants to raise minimum wage to 10 bucks an hour. give me a break.


i wish there was a provincial conservative party.....................................

[beater240]

i wish there was a provincial conservative party.....................................

done. here you go man: http://conservativesbc.com/


but please still vote liberals, the last thing we need is to give the fucking ndp a chance.

I normally don't care about elections but this year i'll be taking unpaid time off work to go vote. I can't believe people are actually considering the NDP. Do that many people have such short-term memories? WTF! NDP???

[lilaznviper]

the homeless problem will never go away by just throwing more tax payers money at it

and after seeing how much we are going into debt with the NDP... more taxes i have to pay with an NDP government oppose to liberals

[quasi]

:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

I would seriously consider moving out of BC if NDP came into power during this time of economic difficulty.

Maybe we could get a two for one on a moving truck I'd seriously consider going back to where I was born even though I've been here the last 20 years.

[bing]

There are so many things wrong with your post.
Please don't post anymore political opinions again, you're sadly misinformed ignorant sheep that just goes with what the media spoon feeds you. If this is the education my tax dollars subsidizes, I hope they triple tuition so people like you cannot attend school.

FS1992EG, short-sighted. oh and, failsauce.
please tell us how we are going to fund all your great ideas?
I mean if I had an unlimited money hack I would promise all the great things our province needs...
but really, where do we get the money?

[DarkOmenz]

I know the NDP's past of the fast cat ferries which is their Epic Fail but really the NDP are safer, I rather have the Fast cat ferries, lower tuition for secondary schools, more teachers in schools, better waiting times are hospitals, and better medicare that the liberals are cutting by the way and making us pay for services/treatment out of pocket even though we pay 54 dollars a month which is supposed to cover us.

Than privatizing the rivers so we pay more for hydro, building shit bridges, selling BC rail, getting drunk in Hawaii, doing nothing about gangland shooting, slapping wrists on career criminals, NDP hands down are a much better choice to run BC right now.



Wow all the reasons you made are from the NDP commercials, don't have a mind of your own? Did you watch some fox news and support Bush as well?

[asahai69]

done. here you go man: http://conservativesbc.com/



ya. but they suck. lol. they gotta get their shit together before i vote for their asses. none of them even in my area. lol

edit. plus, voting for a party that has no chance of winning is just another vote for the ndp.

[Soundy]

gorDAN... lawl.

[WakeMeUp]

Great post Taylor192

Asahai69: I too wish there was a legit conservative alternative, but i doubt there will be in foreseeable future. Although I detest religion being an issue like in the States. I guess I'm a fiscal conservative.

Think back to the 90's. The whole world was booming. The technology revolution, headed by the internet, and the induction of the former states that were behind the Iron Curtain into the world economy were huge driving forces. Meanwhile, BC was in recession. Forget about the NDP being a poor choice now. They're a poor choice anytime.

[Lomac]

FYI, the BC Liberals are merely that in name. They're more Conservative than anything else.

[wouwou]

i dont like the liberal, but ndp made so many big promises that if elected bc will be taxed to death

[!Yaminashi]

On friday I was watching the news while I was in the kitchen, and there was a poll that said the Liberals still have something along the lines of 47% popularity or something.

I kinda thought to myself... Everyone always complains about the liberals yet they always get voted in.

We get what we deserve

[murd0c]

On friday I was watching the news while I was in the kitchen, and there was a poll that said the Liberals still have something along the lines of 47% popularity or something.

I kinda thought to myself... Everyone always complains about the liberals yet they always get voted in.

We get what we deserve

right now the liberals are the lesser of 2 evils tho.

[wouwou]

On friday I was watching the news while I was in the kitchen, and there was a poll that said the Liberals still have something along the lines of 47% popularity or something.

I kinda thought to myself... Everyone always complains about the liberals yet they always get voted in.

We get what we deserve

that's because NDP is worse in this case

[ctsport]

Only the lazy and stupid vote for NDP. :D

[Sunfighter]

I'v said this for awhile, if the NDP get elected I'll move back to the UK.

Conservative politics are safe.

NDP economics are not sound. It's always easy to sell the public on expanded health care, education, etc., but never do people ask who will be paying for it as these services are not free.

[wouwou]

^+1

it scares the crap out of me every time a NDP election ad comes on the radio, saying how many services will be added, and expenditures increasing.

Money doesnt grow on trees people.

[twitchyzero]

Working for the development office at UBC
i for one would not vote for liberals.

Tuition is rising annually at a very steady rate. The old gov't put a 10 year freeze on and the past 8 years the Liberals doesn't see it from a student's prespective.

[BNR32_Coupe]

^+1

it scares the crap out of me every time a NDP election ad comes on the radio, saying how many services will be added, and expenditures increasing.

Money doesnt grow on trees people.

:eek: what?!

[ctsport]

NDP economics are not sound. It's always easy to sell the public on expanded health care, education, etc., but never do people ask who will be paying for it as these services are not free.

Exactly, that's why I stand by my statement that only the lazy and stupid will ever vote NDP.

All these social programs cost money you dumb mofos! and guess who gets to foot the bill? The most productive citizens.

What these social programs the OP (and all you NDP losers) think are so great are in essence wealth transfers.. you take money (in the form of taxes) from people who are working their asses off and giving it to the least productive people in society (i.e. the misfits, losers, welfare, whatever).

Not only are you taking money from the good and giving to the losers.. in the process, you're making our whole society less competitive. This happens because people start to lose incentive when the taxes on their labour gets so high thats its just not worth it to them to work, so they choose to work less.

And its not just high taxes, but how the tax revenues are spent. When you take hard working people's money and give hand outs to Surrey teenage mothers, or to people who are too lazy to even hold a steady job, its demoralizing.

And how about workers subsidizing old people? This is one of the dumbest thing ever. Its one of the prime reasons why people in Canada don't save. They think that when they're old the "government" will support them. When people in society don't save, it not only puts them as individuals in a bad situation, but our entire country as well. This is so because the economy requires huge capital investments in technology, education and general assets. This money has to come from somewhere but if our citizens don't save, they can't invest so there are only two outcomes: 1) our economy weakens because we are no longer competitive, or 2) we have to borrow money at high interest from foreigners to buy the new assets to remain competitive.

Note: I am not against taxes in general, just taxes on labour (i.e. income tax) and how that revenue is wasted on the least productive citizens. I am however a huge supporter of "sin taxes," that is taxes on bad behavior, e.g. the carbon tax. I think they should increase carbon taxes 10 fold but decrease income taxes by the same amount.

[ctsport]

Working for the development office at UBC
i for one would not vote for liberals.

Tuition is rising annually at a very steady rate. The old gov't put a 10 year freeze on and the past 8 years the Liberals doesn't see it from a student's prespective.

I am a student at Simon Fraser and I pay for my own tuition and I think ALL subsidies should be eliminated.

Why the F should the taxpayer have to pay for someone else's school fee's? You don't see the student's helping to pay for the same taxpayer's electricity or grocery bills! This is freaking retarded!

From my position, I can see that half of all students shouldn't even be in college, they're wasting their time and wasting tax-payer money! If tuition for college wasn't subsidized and they'd have to pay the FULL (i.e. REAL) price they (the students) would be compelled to think for once and contemplate if being in college is really worth the opportunity costs.

Having to pay full price for tuition also helps weed out the weak. If students had to work (i.e. get a job!) to pay for the full price of their education, only the students who really want to (and deserve to) be there will choose to stay. And by knowing how much their education really costs, the remaining students would be studying that much harder.

And don't bring up the BS about how this would leave the less well off students hanging because it doesn't. A committed student will find her way. She can always get a job, get a scholarship or get a student loan to pay for her tuition.

Eliminating subsidies to college fee's will also lower the burden of taxes on every working person. Or at least put those tax revenues to better use, like building green infrastructure.

[Chestnut]

^ very well put, and exactly what I wanted to say.

Quick question to all NDP supporters, what happened to the Fast Cat Ferries the NDP government built years back? :stupid:

[FiveDime]

leaglize it!

vote green!

[twitchyzero]

I am a student at Simon Fraser and I pay for my own tuition and I think ALL subsidies should be eliminated.

Why the F should the taxpayer have to pay for someone else's school fee's? You don't see the student's helping to pay for the same taxpayer's electricity or grocery bills! This is freaking retarded!

From my position, I can see that half of all students shouldn't even be in college, they're wasting their time and wasting tax-payer money! If tuition for college wasn't subsidized and they'd have to pay the FULL (i.e. REAL) price they (the students) would be compelled to think for once and contemplate if being in college is really worth the opportunity costs.

Having to pay full price for tuition also helps weed out the weak. If students had to work (i.e. get a job!) to pay for the full price of their education, only the students who really want to (and deserve to) be there will choose to stay. And by knowing how much their education really costs, the remaining students would be studying that much harder.

And don't bring up the BS about how this would leave the less well off students hanging because it doesn't. A committed student will find her way. She can always get a job, get a scholarship or get a student loan to pay for her tuition.

Eliminating subsidies to college fee's will also lower the burden of taxes on every working person. Or at least put those tax revenues to better use, like building green infrastructure.

I hope you know that if there was no subsidy and ALL of a student's educational cost came from the student's pocket, an average student would be paying well over $10k a year for tuition alone.

You're telling me you can make $10k + enough to survive other living expenses in vancouver while working part-time during school + full-time during summer?

If the average student was paying $10k annually, there would be LITTLE to NO loans, bursaries etc.

Tutition subsidy is there for a reason. Post-secondary students are the individuals that will shape our future society (future doctors, lawyers, politicians etc.) It's also there so only the really needy students can get the loans..not everyone gets them (Why should a general arts student get loans for her $5k tuition when a Vet student could barely make ends meet with his $80k+ tuition)

I know at UBC the admission is becoming harder each year with no increase in seats (also due to lack of gov't support) so the competition is fierce. I honestly believe many of the students at my school worked pretty hard to get to where they are now and most deserve their current subsidized tuition (maybe it's diff at SFU)

edit: let's face it. Canadian gov't is pretty much socialist when it comes post-secondary schools. It is pretty much set up so that everyone has an equal chance regardless of their economic background. It should stay that way too.

[!SG]

liberals is the lesser of the main 2 evils.

however i still question gordon campbell as a liberal leader.

[ctsport]

I hope you know that if there was no subsidy and ALL of a student's educational cost came from the student's pocket, an average student would be paying well over $10k a year for tuition alone.

You're telling me you can make $10k + enough to survive other living expenses in vancouver while working part-time during school + full-time during summer?

If the average student was paying $10k annually, there would be LITTLE to NO loans, bursaries etc.

Tutition subsidy is there for a reason. Post-secondary students are the individuals that will shape our future society (future doctors, lawyers, politicians etc.) It's also there so only the really needy students can get the loans..not everyone gets them (Why should a general arts student get loans for her $5k tuition when a Vet student could barely make ends meet with his $80k+ tuition)

I know at UBC the admission is becoming harder each year with no increase in seats (also due to lack of gov't support) so the competition is fierce. I honestly believe many of the students at my school worked pretty hard to get to where they are now and most deserve their current subsidized tuition (maybe it's diff at SFU)

edit: let's face it. Canadian gov't is pretty much socialist when it comes post-secondary schools. It is pretty much set up so that everyone has an equal chance regardless of their economic background. It should stay that way too.

Bullshit.

If a person really wants a post-secondary education, they could work full time for a few years and save up for their education. They could then work part time while enrolled and get scholarships and government loans to make up the rest. If they can't even do that then they don't deserve to be in college.

[m!chael]

I hope you know that if there was no subsidy and ALL of a student's educational cost came from the student's pocket, an average student would be paying well over $10k a year for tuition alone.

You're telling me you can make $10k + enough to survive other living expenses in vancouver while working part-time during school + full-time during summer?

If the average student was paying $10k annually, there would be LITTLE to NO loans, bursaries etc.

Tutition subsidy is there for a reason. Post-secondary students are the individuals that will shape our future society (future doctors, lawyers, politicians etc.) It's also there so only the really needy students can get the loans..not everyone gets them (Why should a general arts student get loans for her $5k tuition when a Vet student could barely make ends meet with his $80k+ tuition)

I know at UBC the admission is becoming harder each year with no increase in seats (also due to lack of gov't support) so the competition is fierce. I honestly believe many of the students at my school worked pretty hard to get to where they are now and most deserve their current subsidized tuition (maybe it's diff at SFU)

edit: let's face it. Canadian gov't is pretty much socialist when it comes post-secondary schools. It is pretty much set up so that everyone has an equal chance regardless of their economic background. It should stay that way too.

Have you even looked at the facts before speaking..? or even checked out the liberal's platform?
Here is the liberal party's platform, go to page 25/55 of the pdf or page 23 in the document itself to look at information pertaining to post secondary education. http://www.bcliberals.com/media/FULLPLATFORM.pdf

I think the liberals have done a very good job. A tuition freeze will only decrease the amount of money universities have to spend on new infrastructure, programs, etc. Tuition was below national levels anyways and is now correcting itself. And this is coming from a guy who is paying over $7000 for his tuition alone not including books which we all know are rapeage in disguise.

[StylinRed]

i hate Gordon Campbell, and Carole James doesn't appeal to me either.. I like the Liberals for the country but not for the province

[ctsport]

I hope you know that if there was no subsidy and ALL of a student's educational cost came from the student's pocket, an average student would be paying well over $10k a year for tuition alone.

You're telling me you can make $10k + enough to survive other living expenses in vancouver while working part-time during school + full-time during summer?

If the average student was paying $10k annually, there would be LITTLE to NO loans, bursaries etc.

Tutition subsidy is there for a reason. Post-secondary students are the individuals that will shape our future society (future doctors, lawyers, politicians etc.) It's also there so only the really needy students can get the loans..not everyone gets them (Why should a general arts student get loans for her $5k tuition when a Vet student could barely make ends meet with his $80k+ tuition)

I know at UBC the admission is becoming harder each year with no increase in seats (also due to lack of gov't support) so the competition is fierce. I honestly believe many of the students at my school worked pretty hard to get to where they are now and most deserve their current subsidized tuition (maybe it's diff at SFU)

edit: let's face it. Canadian gov't is pretty much socialist when it comes post-secondary schools. It is pretty much set up so that everyone has an equal chance regardless of their economic background. It should stay that way too.

And as to your comment regarding Arts students: you've obviously have not kept up with current economic trends. The most sought after people today are not your run of the mill graduates but grads who have substantial creative capacity. Ingenuity is the only skill that cannot be commoditized and outsourced. The most successful companies today recognize this and they're hiring and promoting accordingly. Companies today are opting for students who've majored in diverse subjects that develop this artistic and visionary mindset. A great many of these subjects just happens to fall under the Arts umbrella. (case in point: Ted Turner, founder of CNN, studied greek literature; and Steve Jobs has noted on numerous occasions that the calligraphy courses he took in college made a deep impact on how he though about design)

And as for the UBC vs SFU argument, they are both sub-par establishments at best and seeing that they both have very similar pre-req's for enrollment; your assertion that a Simon Fraser student may have it easier does not hold ground.

[twitchyzero]

Have you even looked at the facts before speaking..? or even checked out the liberal's platform?
Here is the liberal party's platform, go to page 25/55 of the pdf or page 23 in the document itself to look at information pertaining to post secondary education. http://www.bcliberals.com/media/FULLPLATFORM.pdf

I think the liberals have done a very good job. A tuition freeze will only decrease the amount of money universities have to spend on new infrastructure, programs, etc. Tuition was below national levels anyways and is now correcting itself. And this is coming from a guy who is paying over $7000 for his tuition alone not including books which we all know are rapeage in disguise.

I get my facts from journals that publish school endowment stats every fiscal year. You get your facts from a political party website. I wonder which has more room for bias? I've spoken to over thousands of alums from as far back as 1950's up to ones that graded last year, all from different disciplines. I believe I voice somewhat representative from a university student's point of view of multiple disciplines & era. I'm not here to bash on Liberals nor support NDP. Hell, i dont even vote.

I pay a bit more than double of your annual tuition, but that's not the point.

Tuition freeze has it's +'s and -'s. BC's tuition levels were below national avg in the 90's, but recently it's been jumping up 2-5% each year. If you take taht 2% of your $7k a year, it adds up to quite a bit if you did your degree in 5 years.

Isn't VSB going to be under $44 million deficit next year? They've closed down so many elementary schools too. But the K-12 education issue is a whole 'nother can of worms.

[willystyle]

^ One of the reasons that they are closing down so many Elementary Schools is that not enough people are having kids, and many of the new immigrants that do have children are moving out to suburbs instead of living in Vancouver.

[twitchyzero]

Bullshit.

If a person really wants a post-secondary education, they could work full time for a few years and save up for their education. They could then work part time while enrolled and get scholarships and government loans to make up the rest. If they can't even do that then they don't deserve to be in college.

Yeah, we should take a few years off after grade 12 to work at our minimum wage jobs so i can save up for half of my undergrad tuition. I'll be out when I'm 26 with $12k debt then go back to working at a min- oh wait no, $14-hour job now! :rolleyes:

You first msg came off as 'screw subsidizing university student's educational costs', but just now you make it sound like it's so easy to work during school, get all the scholarships, loans etc.

Like i said already, if education wasn't subsidized, everyone would be looking for jobs, everyone would be applying for loans, you would need 90%+ GPA to get scholarships. There's only so much jobs, loans, scholarships to go around for every student. Youre' telling me that you can do all that and if one cannot achieve those goals they dont deserve to be in school? I mean you sound like a smart guy with real good time-management.

And as to your comment regarding Arts students: you've obviously have not kept up with current economic trends. The most sought after people today are not your run of the mill graduates but grads who have substantial creative capacity. Ingenuity is the only skill that cannot be commoditized and outsourced. The most successful companies today recognize this and they're hiring and promoting accordingly. Companies today are opting for students who've majored in diverse subjects that develop this artistic and visionary mindset. A great many of these subjects just happens to fall under the Arts umbrella. (case in point: Ted Turner, founder of CNN, studied greek literature; and Steve Jobs has noted on numerous occasions that the calligraphy courses he took in college made a deep impact on how he though about design)

And as for the UBC vs SFU argument, they are both sub-par establishments at best and seeing that they both have very similar pre-req's for enrollment; your assertion that a Simon Fraser student may have it easier does not hold ground.
I wasn't trying to put Arts student down in any way. I was just making examples of expensive program to something that's more general and cheaper.

But since you brought it up I found sthing quite odd; i've recently spoke with many recent Arts alums @ work, and most tell me they're either working in a field that's totally unrelated to their degree, or they're back in school majoring something else.

Dont get me wrong, I'm not saying social thinking/creativity is not useful.

I never made a UBC vs SFU argument. Dont put words in my mouth please.

[taylor192]

^ One of the reasons that they are closing down so many Elementary Schools is that not enough people are having kids, and many of the new immigrants that do have children are moving out to suburbs instead of living in Vancouver.
Good post, glad someone is informed.

The birthrate of Canadians is approaching 1, while the birthrate of recent immigrants is > 2. Immigrants tend to settle in suburbs with high populations of their own race/religion/culure and despite the hongers here, many immigrants don't have the $$$ to live within Vancouver, they are forced out into the burbs, Toronto is a great example of this.

[taylor192]

Like i said already, if education wasn't subsidized, everyone would be looking for jobs, everyone would be applying for loans, you would need 90%+ GPA to get scholarships. There's only so much jobs, loans, scholarships to go around for every student. Youre' telling me that you can do all that and if one cannot achieve those goals they dont deserve to be in school?

This is how the system works in the US, and it works well. if you need a oan to attend school you can get one, yet it will depend on what program you're taking. Banks don't tend to give loans to philosophy majors, yet will throw cash at potential doctors.

This is the problem with subsidized education. We have a lot of people taking worthless degrees on our dime, especially since admission standards are such that someone with a D HS average can still get admitted to university.

It stopped being about "higher education" a long time ago. My mother gave me this advice:

You will get your degree the first day you go to university, the next 4 years is a necessary evil to wait for the piece of paper

What she meant is that anyone can get a degree as long as they stay in school, you can graduate with Cs and Ds all the way through.

[taylor192]

Great post Taylor192
Thanks.

I've been in this province 7 months, and I know more about BC politics than many of the sheep that will unfortunately cast their vote this election.

Its all about educating yourself, I wish more people took the time to.

[taylor192]

Taylor-Thank you! Beautiful post man.

I tend to feel that any party left in power is a bad thing as the sense of entitlement takes them beyond their mandate. Paul Martin Liberals are a great example.
You're welcome (thank my post too! :D).

All governments need a check-and-balance, yet good governments should not be ousted for the sake of change. The BC liberals have done a lot for this province economically, I worry the NDP would turn BC in the direction Ontario is going under the Ontario liberals.

The Ontario liberals are truly left, unlike the fiscally right BC liberals.
- Ontario income tax is near the tops in the country, I saved $2K income tax by moving to BC!
- Ontario corporate tax among the highest in North America. Why would business want to go there? Its not, business is leaving, quickly!

Does this sound familiar? Like the last BC recession where the NDP was in charge and business and employees left BC? I hope so, and hope its a lesson learned.

[Nocardia]

I just want to say 1 thing here:

I have been going to school since just after the freeze. I can honestly say that SFU and UBC are both 400-500% better now than at the end of the freeze. With increased tuition comes increased $$ to infrastructure, increased attraction of better professors, more research money, more facilities and everything else. I pay roughly $8000/year over the past 4 years at UBC for tuition alone and I can say that I don't mind paying that much considering how good the school is becoming.

One thing I do not agree with is the price of student housing..but thats a completely different topic all together.

[Lomac]

Thanks.

I've been in this province 7 months, and I know more about BC politics than many of the sheep that will unfortunately cast their vote this election.

Its all about educating yourself, I wish more people took the time to.

Good luck with that. :lol

Good post, glad someone is informed.

The birthrate of Canadians is approaching 1, while the birthrate of recent immigrants is > 2. Immigrants tend to settle in suburbs with high populations of their own race/religion/culure and despite the hongers here, many immigrants don't have the $$$ to live within Vancouver, they are forced out into the burbs, Toronto is a great example of this.

Even with people moving out to the 'burbs, there's not enough students available to justify keeping many of the schools open. Two local elementary schools have closed over the past couple years, and a high school recently had to change from an 8-12 to simply a middle school in order to properly disperse students in order to keep the remaining local high schools at a relatively decent capacity.

The other problem with existing and established neighbourhoods such as my own is this: Many families are living in their homes for many, many years and not moving out in order to bring in new, young families. My parent's street has maybe thirty houses from one end to another. When I was growing up, I could count on one hand the number of houses that didn't have children. Now that I've grown up, as has the rest of my old neighbourhood friends, we've all moved away, but the parents are still living in the same houses. Now I could count on one hand the amount of houses on my street that has children attending local schools, instead of the other way around. There aren't enough families moving in to take over my generation's schooling needs, meaning schools are being shut down, programs are being cut, and everything else that goes along with it.

People can't simply buy into the NDP's and teacher's association's blind propaganda.

[twitchyzero]

The other problem with existing and established neighbourhoods such as my own is this: Many families are living in their homes for many, many years and not moving out in order to bring in new, young families. My parent's street has maybe thirty houses from one end to another. When I was growing up, I could count on one hand the number of houses that didn't have children. Now that I've grown up, as has the rest of my old neighbourhood friends, we've all moved away, but the parents are still living in the same houses. Now I could count on one hand the amount of houses on my street that has children attending local schools, instead of the other way around. There aren't enough families moving in to take over my generation's schooling needs, meaning schools are being shut down, programs are being cut, and everything else that goes along with it.


That's the case for my old elementary school too when i went back to speak some of my old teachers.

Still, budget cut is still there.

[taylor192]

Many families are living in their homes for many, many years and not moving out in order to bring in new, young families. My parent's street has maybe thirty houses from one end to another. When I was growing up, I could count on one hand the number of houses that didn't have children. Now that I've grown up, as has the rest of my old neighbourhood friends, we've all moved away, but the parents are still living in the same houses. Now I could count on one hand the amount of houses on my street that has children attending local schools, instead of the other way around. There aren't enough families moving in to take over my generation's schooling needs, meaning schools are being shut down, programs are being cut, and everything else that goes along with it.
Its hard to blame them though, cause of how overpriced housing is here.

There's a lot of elderly living in homes they will never sell, instead gifting them to the next generation when they finally pass. Its cause their family will never afford to buy in that neighbourhood, and the alternative to selling is taking some profit and moving into a closet of a condo with a sky-high condo fee.

Also the high cost of housing here means more people invest in their own homes, and don't have a lot left over to invest elsewhere. Why would you sell and turn over your investment, incurring high commission fees? Its not the same in other provinces, where housing is cheaper, so its easier to make the decision to move multiple times.

[Lomac]

Its hard to blame them though, cause of how overpriced housing is here.

There's a lot of elderly living in homes they will never sell, instead gifting them to the next generation when they finally pass. Its cause their family will never afford to buy in that neighbourhood, and the alternative to selling is taking some profit and moving into a closet of a condo with a sky-high condo fee.

Also the high cost of housing here means more people invest in their own homes, and don't have a lot left over to invest elsewhere. Why would you sell and turn over your investment, incurring high commission fees? Its not the same in other provinces, where housing is cheaper, so its easier to make the decision to move multiple times.

Oh, I'm in no way blaming people for doing this at all. I know my parents reasons, I know my neighbours reasons, and I fully understand it. All I was trying to say is that instead of people blindly listening to the NDP talk about how the Liberals are closing countless numbers of schools (supposedly for no reason), they should try to educate themselves (hah!) about why said schools are being closed.

[quasi]

I think the schooling thing is just evolution of the neighbourhood. They roll in cycles, I live in a new subdivision where there are new homes anywhere from just finished to 3 years old on the top end. I don't know exactly how many homes but theres a ton. On my block I'd say at least every other house has a kid under the age of 5 most around 1-3 years old. Being a new neighbourhood it's the opposite problem, not even close to enough schools for all the kids especially in another couple years.

I actually had this exact converstation with the dad of one of my old elementry school friends who I ran into. He was telling me the samething, when his kids were young everybody in his area had kids. They all cycled out around the same time and now the area is full of a bunch of 45-60 year old adults with no children living at home. It's the natural progression of areas.

[Black SC2]

i dont even vote.



You have just forfeited all right to argue in political discussions as far as I'm concerned. You can't bitch about something in which you don't participate.

Voter apathy is the single greatest political problem in this country, at both the provincial and national levels. Greater than scandal. Greater than governmental waste. It's easy to blame politicians for doing a lousy job, but we give them little incentive to clean up their acts. Vote them in. Vote them out. Send them a message. Write your MLA. Get involved. Do these things or shut the fuck up.

[ctsport]

Yeah, we should take a few years off after grade 12 to work at our minimum wage jobs so i can save up for half of my undergrad tuition. I'll be out when I'm 26 with $12k debt then go back to working at a min- oh wait no, $14-hour job now! :rolleyes:

You first msg came off as 'screw subsidizing university student's educational costs', but just now you make it sound like it's so easy to work during school, get all the scholarships, loans etc.

Like i said already, if education wasn't subsidized, everyone would be looking for jobs, everyone would be applying for loans, you would need 90%+ GPA to get scholarships. There's only so much jobs, loans, scholarships to go around for every student. Youre' telling me that you can do all that and if one cannot achieve those goals they dont deserve to be in school? I mean you sound like a smart guy with real good time-management.


I wasn't trying to put Arts student down in any way. I was just making examples of expensive program to something that's more general and cheaper.

But since you brought it up I found sthing quite odd; i've recently spoke with many recent Arts alums @ work, and most tell me they're either working in a field that's totally unrelated to their degree, or they're back in school majoring something else.


You're the exact kind of person who I think don't deserve a post-secondary education. You're too stupid (no offense intended). Any 18 year old can make $15+ an hour working at entry level jobs (restaurants, wholesalers, etc.) I was making 15+ an hour at age 16 working as a server lol! People waste tens of thousands of dollars every year on useless things like cars and TV's, and you're saying they can't afford an education? We're not living in Africa, people here are not starving. Any person in Canada who wants an education can easily get it. It just takes some effort.. as it should.

If people had to EARN the money.. and PAY for the FULL COST of tuition, you can bet your ass that they'll work hard at school and be much better students.

And your argument that eliminating tuition subsidies would increase GPA requirements is completely unsound LOL- as anyone who has taken economics 101 can attest. Its simple matter of supply and demand. If students had to pay the full cost of their tuition.. which would be higher than it is now.. there would be LESS students because many students would rather do something else with their time and money. The result would be LESS enrollment thus LOWERING demand thereby forcing colleges to LOWER their enrollment requirements.

And as for your last point, I have to ask, how old are you and how long have you been working? Anyone who hasn't been hiding in a cave for the last decade could tell you that having a degree, let alone your area of focus, is a piss-poor-indicator of future success. All the millionaires I personally know didn't even go to college, whereas the people I know who have the most formal education have only decent earning potential (under six figures). Do you really think that some 20 year old kid will be able to see where he'll be at in 20-30 years? LOL. Whatever a student major's in is next to irrelevant as to what job she gets. Any young person today entering the workforce should expect to change jobs.. if not entire industries every few years for the duration of her working life.. this is just the nature of our modern economy. What matters is not the title of your degree, but what one gets from the experience of going through the university process.

[Lomac]

You have just forfeited all right to argue in political discussions as far as I'm concerned. You can't bitch about something in which you don't participate.

Voter apathy is the single greatest political problem in this country, at both the provincial and national levels. Greater than scandal. Greater than governmental waste. It's easy to blame politicians for doing a lousy job, but we give them little incentive to clean up their acts. Vote them in. Vote them out. Send them a message. Write your MLA. Get involved. Do these things or shut the fuck up.

Hah. I wouldn't go quite that far... I know a few people who haven't voted in various elections (be it provincial or federal) and their reasoning tends to be fairly universal: There are no parties that they feel comfortable electing. Sure, they may like one party because of their social ideology, but may absolutely hate their ideas on how the government should be run financially... or, they may like another party's environmental platform, but hate everything else. It's kinda hard to vote for a party when you don't agree with everything they stand for. They don't want to be partially responsible for something going through in government that they're against. It's all well and good to vote for the lesser of two (or three) evils, but sometimes you can't even do that through one's good conscious.

[twitchyzero]

You have just forfeited all right to argue in political discussions as far as I'm concerned. You can't bitch about something in which you don't participate.



I reached the voting age not long ago. I'm still learning different parties and what they have to offer in depth.

[carisear]

i don't know if anyone has mentioned my next points out yet, but ...

on the topic of subsidized education:
Without a proper system in place, that will just lead to a huge money sinkhole. What's to stop people from getting a full education here, then moving to another country to work? I grew up in vancouver. i can honestly say that OVER 50% of the people i went to school with are no longer in this country. You still think taxpayers should be giving money to that?

regarding voter apathy:
- i would personally love if 100% of the population voted, however people voting just because they have to is NOT worthwhile. Just as it is a privilege TO vote, it's your right NOT to vote as well. if only 5% of the people vote, that should tell the politicians something -- perhaps they need to change their priorities?

[goo3]

Working for the development office at UBC
i for one would not vote for liberals.

Tuition is rising annually at a very steady rate. The old gov't put a 10 year freeze on and the past 8 years the Liberals doesn't see it from a student's prespective.

Artificially capping tuition comes with a cost. Would you be willing to live with a shortage of seats and sky-high admission standards? That's what happened last time if you don't remember. Of course, if you're already in, you don't care. But what about everyone else?

A person in Alberta would be able to get a seat in University and come out with a degree while that person in BC (with the exact same marks) wouldn't have that opportunity. If you're the NDP, you can feel good about yourself. But you're not doing the students as a whole any favors. In fact, you're probably putting them at a disadvantage by denying them that piece of paper.

Yes, tuition's expensive, but a 10-yr cap is not a good solution. There's better ways of dealing with it.

[taylor192]

I reached the voting age not long ago. I'm still learning different parties and what they have to offer in depth.

and this is why HE SHOULD NOT VOTE. I'd rather have 10% vote where each person that votes is educated on the issues, than 100% vote and 90% voting on what the media spoon fed them - cause then the media is controlling the vote, not the citizens.

[Soundy]

and this is why HE SHOULD NOT VOTE. I'd rather have 10% vote where each person that votes is educated on the issues, than 100% vote and 90% voting on what the media spoon fed them - cause then the media is controlling the vote, not the citizens.

I had a social-studies teacher in junior high, had an interesting idea: rather than every citizen automatically getting the right to vote at age 18, there should instead be a test of some sort, similar to a driver's test. If you can demonstrate a reasonable working knowledge of the relevant political system (be it federal, provincial, etc.), you get a "voter's license". You also lower the age limit... 16, 14, even less - even an intelligent, politically astute 12-year-old would be able to earn the right (anyone here old enough to get the reference if I mention Alex P. Keaton? :D), while an ignorant, retarded, and/or easily-swayed person of any age would be prevented from simply making random or guided choices.

Such a concept might also help with voter apathy, as once you've put in the time and effort to actually EARN the right the vote, you might be more inspired to EXERCISE it now and then.

[Black SC2]

I had a social-studies teacher in junior high, had an interesting idea: rather than every citizen automatically getting the right to vote at age 18, there should instead be a test of some sort, similar to a driver's test. If you can demonstrate a reasonable working knowledge of the relevant political system (be it federal, provincial, etc.), you get a "voter's license". You also lower the age limit... 16, 14, even less - even an intelligent, politically astute 12-year-old would be able to earn the right (anyone here old enough to get the reference if I mention Alex P. Keaton? :D), while an ignorant, retarded, and/or easily-swayed person of any age would be prevented from simply making random or guided choices.

Such a concept might also help with voter apathy, as once you've put in the time and effort to actually EARN the right the vote, you might be more inspired to EXERCISE it now and then.

I'd vote for that!

[MegaMx]

There's plain and simple only one reason I'm not voting NDP. Dumba$$e$ want to raise the minimum wage and increase cost to small business in this economy!!

[twitchyzero]

And your argument that eliminating tuition subsidies would increase GPA requirements is completely unsound LOL- as anyone who has taken economics 101 can attest. Its simple matter of supply and demand. If students had to pay the full cost of their tuition.. which would be higher than it is now.. there would be LESS students because many students would rather do something else with their time and money. The result would be LESS enrollment thus LOWERING demand thereby forcing colleges to LOWER their enrollment requirements.

Anyone who hasn't been hiding in a cave for the last decade could tell you that having a degree, let alone your area of focus, is a piss-poor-indicator of future success. All the millionaires I personally know didn't even go to college, whereas the people I know who have the most formal education have only decent earning potential (under six figures). Whatever a student major's in is next to irrelevant as to what job she gets. Any young person today entering the workforce should expect to change jobs.. if not entire industries every few years for the duration of her working life.. this is just the nature of our modern economy. What matters is not the title of your degree, but what one gets from the experience of going through the university process.
I don't see it as a simply supply and demand equation.
With the competitive nature of our modern society, many will still pursue higher education w/o subsidization. Sure there probably will be less than the current enrollment, but I can still foresee shortage in loans & scholarships.

The second part of your post is pretty much dependent on whether you take a general studies or opt to go for a professional program afterwards.

If one's satisfied with their career path there shouldn't be much changes to their plans. I understand people changing up careers or even industries, but those that are always switching it up every few years seems to be a sign of instability.

i
Without a proper system in place, that will just lead to a huge money sinkhole. What's to stop people from getting a full education here, then moving to another country to work? I grew up in vancouver. i can honestly say that OVER 50% of the people i went to school with are no longer in this country. You still think taxpayers should be giving money to that?

Although i'm for subsidization of educational costs, that's an excellent point.

and this is why HE SHOULD NOT VOTE. I'd rather have 10% vote where each person that votes is educated on the issues, than 100% vote and 90% voting on what the media spoon fed them - cause then the media is controlling the vote, not the citizens.
Meh, I'm not so prone to media bias as I'm originally from a place where media pollution severely impairs the vote results.

And what's the actual % of BC residents actually voting every year? Is it ~25%?

[penner2k]

I grew up in vancouver. i can honestly say that OVER 50% of the people i went to school with are no longer in this country. You still think taxpayers should be giving money to that?


I dont know how they could stop that from happening though.

The only thing I can think of is have 2 rates. You can pay a reduced rate for post sec. but have to sign a contract that you will work in the country for lets say 5 years or you pay on par with schools that dont get funding and can leave the country right after. If you do stay and work for 5 years than apply to have the difference paid back to you.

[taylor192]

I don't see it as a simply supply and demand equation.
No its about false credentials. There is no demand for university grads with low grades or in certain programs, yet lots of jobs demand "a degree" regardless of what degree it is.

I read this fantastic article about ditching university completely and replacing it with standardized tests like Accountants have to pass. That way you can chose how you want to study to pass the test (self-study, college, university, private school, tutor, ...) eliminating the requirement to waste 3-5 years in university if you could get it done faster.

The standardized test would also ensure each person in that industry has certain credentials, something you have to request the transcript of university grad to determine. I used to take part in hiring at my former company, and there were tons of times we requested a transcript only to find Cs/Ds in the area our company specialized in, the degree itself meant nothing at that point.

Anyone who hasn't been hiding in a cave for the last decade could tell you that having a degree, let alone your area of focus, is a piss-poor-indicator of future success. All the millionaires I personally know didn't even go to college, whereas the people I know who have the most formal education have only decent earning potential (under six figures).
The second part of your post is pretty much dependent on whether you take a general studies or opt to go for a professional program afterwards.
His argument is flawed anyways, statistically people with degrees make a LOT more than those without. The millionaires he quotes are the exception, not the rule. Imagine how little others without degrees make if averaged out with the millionaires he quotes... I wouldn't want to be them.

[aperfectcircle]

Anyone who hasn't been hiding in a cave for the last decade could tell you that having a degree, let alone your area of focus, is a piss-poor-indicator of future success. All the millionaires I personally know didn't even go to college, whereas the people I know who have the most formal education have only decent earning potential (under six figures).

A degree from a credible institution is hardly a "worthless" piece of paper. Anyone who says that either didn't do it, couldn't do it, obtained one but didn't capitalize on the benefits of having one (of which there are many, even for random BA's in Philosophy), or just didn't make the cut in some way academically. The number of millionaires who did not inherit the money with some form of higher education will very likely outnumber those without. A postgraduate degree is a much better dividing line between the chaff and the hard workers; any idiot can ace high school and barely pass through University, while it usually takes a real aptitude and work ethic to make the cut into a decent Master's program.

That said I am 100% *opposed* to tuition freezes. There is by far an overabundance of people going to university for the hell of it. I fully support scholarships; people who make Dean's list deserve to have their tuition funded and encourages everyone to work that much harder. Bursaries and student loans are pretty badly abused so I think a new system should be in place to deal with that.

[roastpuff]

Meh, I'm not so prone to media bias as I'm originally from a place where media pollution severely impairs the vote results.

And what's the actual % of BC residents actually voting every year? Is it ~25%?

Isn't that still media bias? Pollution (interesting choice of words there) causing effects in the voting preferences of the general population is in other words... bias.

Also, a quick Google would've made yourself look less lazy and ignorant. 55% in 2001, 58% in 2005. Going to be higher this year, considering how much positive response I've gotten when volunteering on the phone lists.

[taylor192]

A postgraduate degree is a much better dividing line between the chaff and the hard workers; any idiot can ace high school and barely pass through University, while it usually takes a real aptitude and work ethic to make the cut into a decent Master's program.
Its sad that "higher education" has gotten to the point where 6-7 years is needed to separate real aptitude.

Worse, in my degree it doesn't even do that. I'm in engineering, and graduated when the high-tech bubble burst. Those of us with great grades and/or experience still were able to land jobs, while many of my peers went back to do their Masters and schools were happy to accept them (Masters tuition is more than double undergrad). So think about it, the best and brightest went out to industry, while those who couldn't get jobs spent another 2 years trying to separate themselves form the pack.

That period of time has made even a Masters in Eng worthless, as many Masters grads are not the best and brightest, just the rejects that couldn't get jobs and rode out the downturn. I know, our hiring reflected at how many useless Masters grads there were applying.

Guess what? Its happening all over again this recession.

[taylor192]

Isn't that still media bias? Pollution (interesting choice of words there) causing effects in the voting preferences of the general population is in other words... bias.
There's a few studies that show voter preference towards the local media preference. Society tends to trust the news, thus if the news is even slightly biased, the vote will reflect this bias.

Lucky for me the bias is for the BC Liberals here, while it was against the Ontario PCs in Ottawa.

[twitchyzero]

Isn't that still media bias? Pollution (interesting choice of words there) causing effects in the voting preferences of the general population is in other words... bias.

Also, a quick Google would've made yourself look less lazy and ignorant. 55% in 2001, 58% in 2005. Going to be higher this year, considering how much positive response I've gotten when volunteering on the phone lists.

Yeah, i meant there's lots of media bias there, thus i'm can better filter out the bias that goes on here.

Gotta love the 'got Google?' response. Why do I need to open up Google while we're already on a very similar topic? 58% was actually more than I expected.

[asahai69]

There's plain and simple only one reason I'm not voting NDP. Dumba$$e$ want to raise the minimum wage and increase cost to small business in this economy!!

A fucken MEN to that.

[iEatClams]

There are so many things wrong with your post.


and the point of posting this way? more sensationalism?

Did you know if we held JFK to the same political standards we do today, he would have never been elected. Politics shouldn't be the popularity contest people like you make it out to be... and you're a fucking lefty who's suposed to be above that petty politics. :rolleyes:


Health care has become a problem and NO PROVINCE HAS SOLVED IT including provinces with left governments.

I disagree with the lower tuition, university has become a haven to grads who obtain worthless degrees, and by your posts you haven't learned much from school, aka worthless.


There's so much wrong here I need bullets:
- privatizing rivers is false, since the public wasn't doing anything with them in the first place
- the new bridges are awesome, its the streets the bridges cannot solve. You can put wider bridges, 2 bridges, ... yet unless you widen the city streets it will not help.
- why keep BC Rail? Lets here a good argument, since the US works very well with privatized rail, hell it built their country!
- why harp on the DUI again? more sensationalism cause you don't have much else to say
- follow the news, the increased police force made a bunch of arrests, seems to have worked unlike the lefties that wouldn't have done anything
- the lefties slap wrists and constantly block measures for tougher punishments federally, please keep up with Canadian politics
- the NDP are the worst choice right now, for all the above reasons and more


Good ideas, do you have $32B to fund this? I don't, and the increase in taxes to cover such elaborate projects would hurt our pocketbooks.

Do you know how the Chinese pay for their infrastructure? Look it up and come back without such ignorant arguments.

Here's an example:
BC can build more public power plants, borrowing money and increasing taxes to pay for it. Or we can let private companies build them and charge us more for electricity to cover their costs. Either way WE ARE PAYING THE BILL via increased costs or increases taxes. Personally I'd rather increases costs, cause I can control how much I use, I cannot control how much the government takes from my paycheque.


It was over budget, yet its done and will be used. Cannot say the same of the fast ferries.


If the lefties would allow society to institutionalism the mentally ill, then homelessness might be defeated. Instead the left gave the mentally ill the right to accept government handouts while roaming the streets as prey for drug dealers.

We've tried the lefty solution to end homeless by catering to their needs, and it hasn't worked. We need a true "right" approach, not more homeless hugging left policies.



Pointless unless you consider the area served by the SeaToSky pumps a lot of money into the economy, and better serving that area should be a huge plus for the economy.

Perhaps Oak st needs a barrier down the middle too, since any street where cars can do 80+ will be a death trap. Or perhaps drivers should get proper tires and stop taking on their cell phone. I hate you lefties that think the government is responsible for forcing you into how to be safe.

Any personal responsibility seems to be missing from the left.


Dude, this is where you show your complete and utter stupidity. That's a CONSERVATIVE argument, not NDP.

NDP believes in taxing people to pay for public projects, thus increasing taxes on cars and houses to pay for public transportation. Perhaps you should look up your own NDP policies.

Please don't post anymore political opinions again, you're sadly misinformed ignorant sheep that just goes with what the media spoon feeds you. If this is the education my tax dollars subsidizes, I hope they triple tuition so people like you cannot attend school.

fucking epic post!

-- except for the last sentence I don't agree with.

government needs to subsidize students still. just wish we can subsidize more for medical programs or trades (where what you learn will actually be useful).

[scheng924]

i didn't read the whole page here but here's my thing on privatizing rivers...

what's james gonna do? stop it?.. then what.. go back to coal burning...
if the gov't instead of privatizing them and handle the projects on their own... where is the money going to come from... our taxes... that being said.. privatizing is not increasing our taxes...

[m!chael]

I get my facts from journals that publish school endowment stats every fiscal year. You get your facts from a political party website. I wonder which has more room for bias? I've spoken to over thousands of alums from as far back as 1950's up to ones that graded last year, all from different disciplines. I believe I voice somewhat representative from a university student's point of view of multiple disciplines & era. I'm not here to bash on Liberals nor support NDP. Hell, i dont even vote.

I pay a bit more than double of your annual tuition, but that's not the point.

Tuition freeze has it's +'s and -'s. BC's tuition levels were below national avg in the 90's, but recently it's been jumping up 2-5% each year. If you take taht 2% of your $7k a year, it adds up to quite a bit if you did your degree in 5 years.

Isn't VSB going to be under $44 million deficit next year? They've closed down so many elementary schools too. But the K-12 education issue is a whole 'nother can of worms.

Where are these journals at? give me a good link or two, I'm not being sarcastic I would actually appreciate more info on the matter.

[SlySi]

Bullshit.

If a person really wants a post-secondary education, they could work full time for a few years and save up for their education. They could then work part time while enrolled and get scholarships and government loans to make up the rest. If they can't even do that then they don't deserve to be in college.

You're ignorent.... simple as that.

[taylor192]

You're ignorent.... simple as that.
It's ignorant

It's hard to criticize someone's opinion on education when you cannot put together a coherent, grammatically correct, spell-checked argument.

[taylor192]

i didn't read the whole page here but here's my thing on privatizing rivers...

what's james gonna do? stop it?.. then what.. go back to coal burning...
if the gov't instead of privatizing them and handle the projects on their own... where is the money going to come from... our taxes... that being said.. privatizing is not increasing our taxes...
The NDP are worried about private companies record on the environment. They only need to look to Alberta to see how money trumps the environment (tar sands tailing ponds)

To build the smaller hydro projects proposed, roads/electrical lines would have to to get to the river (clear cutting forest) and some water diverted (changing environments, yet on a smaller scale than the hydro-electric dams).

The government won't invest in these projects cause of their small scale (and lack of funds) yet there's enough "green" private money running around now that there's interest in the private sector.

Personally I think hydro is by far the better alternative to solar/wind/nuclear, and the damage to the river environment is outweighed by the damage other solutions cause.

[unit]

Its ignorant

Its hard to criticize someone's opinion on education when you cannot put together a coherent, grammatically correct, spell-checked argument.

- why keep BC Rail? Lets here a good argument,

I agree...

[taylor192]

I agree...
LOL there's more errors than that in my post, I wrote too much to worry about correcting them. The difference is I wasn't criticizing university education.

[Soundy]

Its ignorant

Its hard to criticize someone's opinion on education when you cannot put together a coherent, grammatically correct, spell-checked argument.

This post is full of win for so many different reasons, not the least of which is the fact that it's coherent DESPITE lacking punctuation:

It's ignorant.

It's hard to criticize someone's opinion on education when you cannot put together a coherent, grammatically correct, spell-checked argument.

:haha:

[twitchyzero]

Where are these journals at? give me a good link or two, I'm not being sarcastic I would actually appreciate more info on the matter.

I got it from my supervisor at work. I'll see if I can get the publication name for you next time.

[taylor192]

:haha:
Damn its and it's. Firefox needs a grammar checker! :haha:

[adambomb]

Gordan Campbell and the Liberals are like Micheal Jordan and the Chicago Bulls back in the day...

Three-peat!! Swish.

[achiam]

I don't know why we still vote for liberals to be in power and running our government, there just two faced in my opinion.


To be blunt, the Liberals haven't done a stellar job; but to vote for the NDP would be far worse.
The NDP's dogma appeals to those voters who feel a sense of entitlement - believing fervently that everyone deserves a higher wage with no regard to how a free market dictates compensation.
By simply boosting infrastructure spending and increasing the standard of living on a short-term scale, they have continuously stuck the tab onto the rich, which they paint as a corporate beast.

This "thumb in the dam" fix is very troubling on two grounds:

Firstly, the rich and educated are in demand, and very mobile - unlike the average laborer stuck in Vancouver, they are free to liquidate and move anywhere else in the world that will pay more, or to any other jurisdiction that holds a more business friendly tax structure.

Secondly, entrepreneurial drive is dampened. Potential start-ups face increasingly business hostile conditions which serves to dull B.C's talent repertoire.

To support a higher standard of lifestyle is noble, but to do it with wanton disregard to the bill borders on ignorance.

PS: I'd vote for the Marijuana Party. Legally growing weed would not only employ thousands, but chop the finance tree of the BC underworld. And no, crime would not rocket out of control. My friend from Amsterdam tells me they hate how Westerners think their countrymen are potheads when in reality the locals don't abuse it.

[Soundy]

Gordan Campbell

Sounds like an evil Godzilla enemy or something. GODZILLA VS. GOR-DAN!

[taylor192]

Firstly, the rich and educated are in demand, and very mobile - unlike the average laborer stuck in Vancouver, they are free to liquidate and move anywhere else in the world that will pay more, or to any other jurisdiction that holds a more business friendly tax structure.
This is what built the US, people fleeing Europe's taxation for new opportunities in a developing market. In our global economy this is even easier now, and there's lots of other countries with faster growing GDPs to invest in.

The average labourer used to be mobile, if you lost your job you moved to another city with jobs. The past 50 years has changed this. We're more rooted to our over-priced homes, and with 2 (or more) family members working its increasing difficult to relocate and find employment for all. For young single people (who should be mobile) the last decade has removed a lot of mobility as we bought into the myth that everyone needs to own a house, and rooted ourselves.

[twitchyzero]

I just got a few flyers in the mailbox that was bluntly attacking NDP.

I usually see the ads in the newspaper attacking the Liberals (but they generally state more numbers than opinions..but the ones i got were pretty aggressive.

Anyone else got them too? It was also translated to Chinese. It was talking about NDP is incompetent at crime, expensive booze, death tax, more brainwashing blah blah blah

It's pretty shocking to see this in Vancouver..I usually don't see it to this degree of agressiveness.

[Meowjin]

what's thedeal with the expensive booze?

[taylor192]

what's thedeal with the expensive booze?
1. I don't know why its so expensive to begin with.

2. The BC Liberals use the carbon tax to balance the budget.

3. The NDP want to remove the carbon tax, so they need something else to balance the budget - booze tax.

[sonick]

Cool discussion. I wasn't planning on voting, but this thread convinced me to do so.

[taylor192]

Cool discussion. I wasn't planning on voting, but this thread convinced me to do so.

:thumbsup:

Can someone post a poll, my account settings do not allow me to.I'd like to see how many people voted, didn't vote cause they suck, or decided not to vote since none of the parties represent their values.