[!Yaminashi]

So on the weekend I was at Richmond Honda looking at Civic Si's.
I finally get a sales rep to help me and I ask about how much the 08 Sedans are going for

He tells me they're $24,xxx (after some $3500 odd dollar rebate?) and I'm like SERIOUS?!
He's like YES!

Anyway, we sit down and he tells me that the interest rate on the 08 is 7.9%, while the 09's only have 0.9%

Why is it that the older models have the higher rate? The 08 was brand new, wouldnt they be trying to get it off the lot faster?

Someone explain to me please, this really confuses me

[Iceman-19]

Honda Canada incentives, they want you to buy the 09's.

[!Yaminashi]

But shouldnt it be the other way around? The 08's are sitting there losing value but they charge more for them?
Anyway since its an older model that leaves more room for negotiation, right?

[albert116]

Does that rebate apply only if you pay by cash?

[!Yaminashi]

Does that rebate apply only if you pay by cash?

Not that I know of, however I swear he mentioned something about cash rebate. He had a pretty heavy chinese accent so I cant be sure :(

[Mashimaro]

Do you have enough cash to buy flat out? if so, you can negotiate a bit more than $3500.

last year, the left over TL's were being offered up to $8000 discount if you bought it flat out, no financing, no leasing (up to $10,000 on an MDX as well). i'm sure you can get more than 3500bux for that leftover civic...check other dealers as well to see if they have any left elsewhere.

[!Yaminashi]

Do you have enough cash to buy flat out? if so, you can negotiate a bit more than $3500.

last year, the left over TL's were being offered up to $8000 discount if you bought it flat out, no financing, no leasing (up to $10,000 on an MDX as well). i'm sure you can get more than 3500bux for that leftover civic...check other dealers as well to see if they have any left elsewhere.

I dont have nearly enough to buy it flat out, I'm gonna check other dealers and negotiate like crazy to see what I can get
I'm not too concerned about trying to get more than $3500 off, but I was wondering why the interest rate is SO damn high on an 08

[CRS]

Funny thing is the 09s are cheaper than the 08s.

Or atleast that what I got from a family friend who works as a the regional director of budget.

[!Yaminashi]

Funny thing is the 09s are cheaper than the 08s.

Or atleast that what I got from a family friend who works as a the regional director of budget.

Yeah, it just doesnt make sense right? Am I the only one that goes "wtf"?

[q0192837465]

I think it sort of makes sense if u look at it retrospectively. The price of a 08 may have dropped to so low that the dealer is indifferent whether it sells or not. The 09 on the other hand command a higher price thus higher margin.

But yea, intuitively, it doesnt makes sense

[!Yaminashi]

I think it sort of makes sense if u look at it retrospectively. The price of a 08 may have dropped to so low that the dealer is indifferent whether it sells or not. The 09 on the other hand command a higher price thus higher margin.

But yea, intuitively, it doesnt makes sense

But its probably easier to negotiate the price/interest of the 08 being that its an older model?

[CRS]

Yeah, it just doesnt make sense right? Am I the only one that goes "wtf"?

I think it has to do with the economy and Honda trying to lower prices to keep a competitive income and to well, attract buyers in a dim market.

If you look at it like that, it makes much more sense. The 09s being cheaper because of the global recession where the 08s were base priced higher during when there wasn't a global recession.

Go with 09s. Cheaper and newer!

[Shun Izaki]

Honda is just trying to push their new line.

That is weird at first glance though, and those new happy face grills that every car has are growing on me.

[Rich Sandor]

It's the same at Ford and many other manufacturers.

2008's and some 2009 models have $1000-$9000 off msrp, but bank rate interest (7-9%)

New 2009 and 2010 models have very little cash back, but very LOW interest.

If you are doing a monthly payment, it will wind up being almost the same on either choice.

My understanding of WHY manufacturers do this, is because the banks do not want outstanding loans on older model year vehicles. The banks want to keep the cars that have leins on them, as new/current as possible. They do not want to start a finance contract on a car that is already 1 year old.

Additionally, the manufacturer only has a set amount of money to throw at a model line as incentives. Bank rate on a $30,000 car loan is about $7500. If you get 0% interest instead, that's the same as getting $7500 off the price. What a manufacturer might do is offer $8000 off MSRP instead of a subvented rate. When you lower the price of a vehicle, you have less and less finance buyers and more andmore cash buyers, AND it's easier to approve the ones that do choose to finance because the amount borrowed is less. (although the interest is more.)

It might sound counter-intutitive but it's long term thinking that will help keep the manufacturers profitable.

[jlenko]

Depends on who is financing the car loan. For GM.. if it's an 09, you get GMAC financing at 0.9% or whatever the rate is now. If you buy an older model that's still sitting on the lot (even though it's brand new!) it no longer qualifies for GMAC... so you have to get a local bank loan. Most dealers do this stuff for you... punch your info in the computer, get your approval, etc.

We bought a brand new 2007 Equinox still sitting on the lot, in March 2009. Sticker was $32k, we paid $18k. But we went and got our own financing at the bank... better rate that way :)

[Black SC2]

It's always been that way, across pretty much all brands.

[4444]

So on the weekend I was at Richmond Honda looking at Civic Si's.
I finally get a sales rep to help me and I ask about how much the 08 Sedans are going for

He tells me they're $24,xxx (after some $3500 odd dollar rebate?) and I'm like SERIOUS?!
He's like YES!

Anyway, we sit down and he tells me that the interest rate on the 08 is 7.9%, while the 09's only have 0.9%

Why is it that the older models have the higher rate? The 08 was brand new, wouldnt they be trying to get it off the lot faster?

Someone explain to me please, this really confuses me

there are better cars for the money, FYI - i own one and will happily say that (POS made in Canada garbage)

[!Yaminashi]

there are better cars for the money, FYI - i own one and will happily say that (POS made in Canada garbage)

If you dont mind me asking, why is it a POS?
Also which car(s) can be had for <$30k?

[6insomnia9]

Recession.

[racerman88]

Do you have enough cash to buy flat out? if so, you can negotiate a bit more than $3500.

last year, the left over TL's were being offered up to $8000 discount if you bought it flat out, no financing, no leasing (up to $10,000 on an MDX as well). i'm sure you can get more than 3500bux for that leftover civic...check other dealers as well to see if they have any left elsewhere.

try your line of credit to buy the car.

[CivicTypeRice]

If you dont mind me asking, why is it a POS?
Also which car(s) can be had for <$30k?
First of all the new Civic is not a POS. I own an 07 Civic Si and love it to death,
I have two tiny complaints about the car, first is that the interior dash and door panels are made from cheap quality plastic and scratches very easily, second is that civics lacks on torque, Ohh and the 3rd gear problem, But it`s not an issue for 08-09 models.
Overall the new Si is a great performance bargain. There`s simply no other car out there for under 30k BRANDNEW which offers a combination of furious performance and superior practicality, Not to mention it`s 8200rpm redline;). Anyways what drew your attention to the Si ?

FYI used 06-08 Si`s are going for 18k-23k.

[4444]

If you dont mind me asking, why is it a POS?
Also which car(s) can be had for <$30k?

rattles that just shouldn't be on a honda - complained, 'couldn't recreate it' - will complain again soon (3rd time)

interior is ok - not as nice as european - WHY NOT?! are we that simple (i'm european, maybe thats why i complain, i'm not so simple)

engine - mostly is great, but its an 'older' engine now - not brand new technology - i wouldn't want a car that basically has a 6 yr old engine (if not older? k20 in all forms has been around for a while, and although its solid and a great performer, where's the next gen?) - i've owned my car since htey first came out, so i figured i was ok with it, but i wouldn't buy it again

transmission - SHIT, all honda trans seem to be shit though (98 accord, tranny replaced, 04 TL has problems, 07 TLS has had parts of the tranny replaced) - 3rd gear is fucked, 2nd gear grind, i've had to have the shift linkage replaced as i broke it (do i drive that hard? i don't think so) - weak design (cables? give me a fucking break)

engine, bogs at times on hard acceleration/gear change - dealership says its normal - no joke - will complain again, and again

small honda engines jerk when cold - ABSOLUTE BS! why they can't engineer this problem away is beyond me - should be smoother

and finally, clock on the cd player runs fast, i've had 1 replacement... and it does it too!!! WTF!

now, as i say, in 06 when they first came out - cool car, was hte new in thing, cool engine, all that... now, with the new upgrades to the looks (i think they're not upgrades but steps back), i wouldn't consider getting another one

what would i get instead - unfortunately i can't really help you on that one, as i'd want to spend well over $30k, but golf GTI has something about it... v6 accord with rebates/if you can drive a hard bargain could be had for nearer 30 than you think... but personally, i'd be going for a 1 series - having said that, you're talking twice hte money

overall, my complaints are only big to me as i expected a LOT more from a honda - if it were japanese made, i think it'd been a lot better, but i could tell RIGHT AWAY this was a north american built car, sloppier, not as much care and attention... not nearly as good - fuck american, buy japanese!

[!Yaminashi]

rattles that just shouldn't be on a honda - complained, 'couldn't recreate it' - will complain again soon (3rd time)

interior is ok - not as nice as european - WHY NOT?! are we that simple (i'm european, maybe thats why i complain, i'm not so simple)

engine - mostly is great, but its an 'older' engine now - not brand new technology - i wouldn't want a car that basically has a 6 yr old engine (if not older? k20 in all forms has been around for a while, and although its solid and a great performer, where's the next gen?) - i've owned my car since htey first came out, so i figured i was ok with it, but i wouldn't buy it again

transmission - SHIT, all honda trans seem to be shit though (98 accord, tranny replaced, 04 TL has problems, 07 TLS has had parts of the tranny replaced) - 3rd gear is fucked, 2nd gear grind, i've had to have the shift linkage replaced as i broke it (do i drive that hard? i don't think so) - weak design (cables? give me a fucking break)

engine, bogs at times on hard acceleration/gear change - dealership says its normal - no joke - will complain again, and again

small honda engines jerk when cold - ABSOLUTE BS! why they can't engineer this problem away is beyond me - should be smoother

and finally, clock on the cd player runs fast, i've had 1 replacement... and it does it too!!! WTF!

now, as i say, in 06 when they first came out - cool car, was hte new in thing, cool engine, all that... now, with the new upgrades to the looks (i think they're not upgrades but steps back), i wouldn't consider getting another one

what would i get instead - unfortunately i can't really help you on that one, as i'd want to spend well over $30k, but golf GTI has something about it... v6 accord with rebates/if you can drive a hard bargain could be had for nearer 30 than you think... but personally, i'd be going for a 1 series - having said that, you're talking twice hte money

overall, my complaints are only big to me as i expected a LOT more from a honda - if it were japanese made, i think it'd been a lot better, but i could tell RIGHT AWAY this was a north american built car, sloppier, not as much care and attention... not nearly as good - fuck american, buy japanese!

Hm, alot of those problems seem like they could just be isolated incidents. I know with my SE-R, I havent had a single problem with it other than rattles, which you'll probably get even with the GTI. I think in today's market anything around $30k is considered "cheap." However I've read of other problems with Sentras that nobody else has

But thanks for your input

[marc0lishuz]

Dealers can also sell you previous MY cars as "used", hence they give you a higher financing rate. Burrard Acura tried to pull this on me when I was looking to trade in my Si for a CSX Type-S's a few years back.

As for the points made above:
Rattling - agreed... definitely some rattles can be deleted with better insulation
Interior - It's not supposed to look European. It's a Japanese company! I like it. Very interesting and functional design.
Engine - Great
Transmission - Great (I doubt you'd find a smoother and more fun M/T at this price range)
Engine bog - Fixed with reflash, and if you're too lazy to warm it up a bit, then that's your fault.

GTI vs Si has been raging on forever. Each have their pro's and con's... the biggest being the VW's price which is $2000+ more expensive than an equally-equipped Civic Si.

[!Yaminashi]

Dealers can also sell you previous MY cars as "used", hence they give you a higher financing rate. Burrard Acura tried to pull this on me when I was looking to trade in my Si for a CSX Type-S's a few years back.

As for the points made above:
Rattling - agreed... definitely some rattles can be deleted with better insulation
Interior - It's not supposed to look European. It's a Japanese company! I like it. Very interesting and functional design.
Engine - Great
Transmission - Great (I doubt you'd find a smoother and more fun M/T at this price range)
Engine bog - Fixed with reflash, and if you're too lazy to warm it up a bit, then that's your fault.

GTI vs Si has been raging on forever. Each have their pro's and con's... the biggest being the VW's price which is $2000+ more expensive than an equally-equipped Civic Si.

Not to mention the GTI is also turbocharged!
I did some research on the GTIs as well as the civic, and the GTI seems to have LOTS of electrical/little problems

Marcolishuz, can you go into a little more detail about dealers trying to sell cars as "used"?
Perhaps expand on your story? :D

[marc0lishuz]

I wanted to buy a 2007 CSX Type-S (this was Feb 2008, it was the previous model year). We got all the numbers settled - pretty much $6k off MSRP, no PDI, and all taxes/fees in, and a bonus 160,000km extended warranty included. I said - wow, smokin deal! Then they dropped the bomb - 7.9% financing because they were going to declare on the paperwork that it is a "used" car even though it had 20kms on the odometer. That's how they can get me so much money off the MSRP and give me 160000km extended warranty, but they had to use the Used Car financing rate. The 08s had 0.9% for 60 months. So basically, I walked!

[!Yaminashi]

I wanted to buy a 2007 CSX Type-S (this was Feb 2008, it was the previous model year). We got all the numbers settled - pretty much $6k off MSRP, no PDI, and all taxes/fees in, and a bonus 160,000km extended warranty included. I said - wow, smokin deal! Then they dropped the bomb - 7.9% financing because they were going to declare on the paperwork that it is a "used" car even though it had 20kms on the odometer. That's how they can get me so much money off the MSRP and give me 160000km extended warranty, but they had to use the Used Car financing rate. The 08s had 0.9% for 60 months. So basically, I walked!

Hm, interesting.. I wonder if thats what Richmond Honda was doing with the 08 Si's

[marc0lishuz]

Possible. But as mentioned above, dealers get tons of $$$ from manufacturers for clearing old stock too. You should really haggle for a good deal... dealerships are dying these days, thanks to the economy.

[!Yaminashi]

Possible. But as mentioned above, dealers get tons of $$$ from manufacturers for clearing old stock too. You should really haggle for a good deal... dealerships are dying these days, thanks to the economy.

Yeah, I'll definitely be a pain in the ass and bargain for a good price

[CivicTypeRice]

Are you going to check out the one at Westwood Honda!

[Eff-1]

The simple answer is the reason the 08 is at a higher rate is because Honda Canada is offering a special promotional rate, which is applicable to 09s only, if you choose to finance with Honda. It has nothing to do with the dealer. The dealer can only give you whatever financing it can get from its bank.

Sure, the dealer would rather have you buy the leftover 08s so it can get them off its lot, but when Honda comes along and puts a special finance rate or other promotion on the 09s, there's nothing the dealer can do about it.

[CanadaGoose]

Don't listen to what anyone says, go test drive one for yourself and build your own opinion.

These cars will RIP if you know how to drive... and aren't afraid to squeeze your engine and play near redline. Cornering & braking capability is unreal for this platform. Acceleration is ferocious for such a 'tiny' motor. It doesn't even feel like the same 2 liter motor once you pass 5800rpm...and the sound it makes...

[1990TSI]

my room mate just found this out, and still ended up getting the 08 for cheaper.

super low interest on the 09, but he got a waaaay cheaper price on the car and after all was said and done, the 08 was a better deal.

only downside is driving a brand new car that's 2 MYs old

[!Yaminashi]

my room mate just found this out, and still ended up getting the 08 for cheaper.

super low interest on the 09, but he got a waaaay cheaper price on the car and after all was said and done, the 08 was a better deal.

only downside is driving a brand new car that's 2 MYs old


Care to share the details?

[4444]

Care to share the details?

bargain hard & have your own cash in hand - people who get excited about 0.9% financing are getting hooped, as they're usually paying a higher principal (i.e. less bargain room) - so its not always as good as it sounds - what are you financing options? whats your cost to borrow outside of the dealer? if you have other options look into them

i don't want to scare you off buying the Si with my prior post - i do love driving the car hard, going from american muscle to this was a pleasant surprise - however, i just wasn't expecting many of the nuances that i have - ESPECIALLY teh gearbox - which, to this day, i still think is a POS (shift linkage that will bend when put under heavy shifting pressure, not engaging 2nd gear, causing grinding isn't a driver problem, its an engineering problem)

just go to many dealerships, take your steel balls with you, bargain hard - worst taht happens, you walk away and go to another dealership that much more knowledgeable about what you can, and more importantly, cannot get

[albert116]

^

i have a 08 Si and i am not experiencing the gearbox issues that you mentioned of...No third gear issues either. I did grind 2nd gear a few times but i think it was an error on my part. This car is really a blast to drive when revved up.

[marc0lishuz]

only downside is driving a brand new car that's 2 MYs old
And also there's a facelift done on the 09 MY across all Civics.

[DC5-S]

fuck the civic man, get a cobalt turbo.. im jealous of those cars

[!Yaminashi]

fuck the civic man, get a cobalt turbo.. im jealous of those cars

I thought about those as well, but I dont want an overly cheap plastic interior..
I guess I'll have to check one out on the weekend, they did get good reviews

Another thing that concerns me is reliability, which I know honda is notorious for
Who knows where the cobalt will be 5 years down the road

[orange7]

didn't you just buy a new car last year?

[GordonTse]

bargain hard & have your own cash in hand - people who get excited about 0.9% financing are getting hooped, as they're usually paying a higher principal (i.e. less bargain room) - so its not always as good as it sounds - what are you financing options? whats your cost to borrow outside of the dealer? if you have other options look into them

i don't want to scare you off buying the Si with my prior post - i do love driving the car hard, going from american muscle to this was a pleasant surprise - however, i just wasn't expecting many of the nuances that i have - ESPECIALLY teh gearbox - which, to this day, i still think is a POS (shift linkage that will bend when put under heavy shifting pressure, not engaging 2nd gear, causing grinding isn't a driver problem, its an engineering problem)

just go to many dealerships, take your steel balls with you, bargain hard - worst taht happens, you walk away and go to another dealership that much more knowledgeable about what you can, and more importantly, cannot get

i don't know what you have been reading because there has been a bulletin out for the 06-07MY Si's for the 3rd gear problem for the longest time now. my '08 didn't fall into the VIN ranges but my tranny is fine.

co-worker just finished rebuilding his whole tranny under warranty and got paid to do it himself because he was doing it under warranty.

and fyi, not ALL k20's are the same.

[4444]

i don't know what you have been reading because there has been a bulletin out for the 06-07MY Si's for the 3rd gear problem for the longest time now. my '08 didn't fall into the VIN ranges but my tranny is fine.

co-worker just finished rebuilding his whole tranny under warranty and got paid to do it himself because he was doing it under warranty.

and fyi, not ALL k20's are the same.

retard, stop talking

all K20's are not the same, they have variants, i know this, but the core engine is still the same - the b16, for example, can only go so far... then they replaced it

i know about hte 3rd gear recall, my car was not in the VIN range either, but its not perfect, but then again,t he 2nd gear issue is a bigger issue to me

stop trying to show off your limited knowledge of things civic just because you go around washing cars in your job - go drink and drive some more and post how awesome you are on 8th gen

FYI - this kid drinks & drives drunk, with his N, in the car his parents paid for or pay for and then goes and tells all on 8thgencivic... so my rant isn't without prior reason

[!Yaminashi]

Take the beef elsewhere please, I dont want this thread turned to shit

[CivicTypeRice]

stop trying to show off your limited knowledge of things civic just because you go around washing cars in your job - go drink and drive some more and post how awesome you are on 8th gen

FYI - this kid drinks & drives drunk, with his N, in the car his parents paid for or pay for and then goes and tells all on 8thgencivic... so my rant isn't without prior reason

lol PWND

[tofu1413]

^

i have a 08 Si and i am not experiencing the gearbox issues that you mentioned of...No third gear issues either. I did grind 2nd gear a few times but i think it was an error on my part. This car is really a blast to drive when revved up.

the third gear thing was for the first year or so Si's... bad syncro for third gear.. or was it snap ring? seen a couple come in at work to get those done, as they do pop out.

09's dont have the problems. late model 08's dont either.


and that peaky motor... my god. its good fun though. =)

[GordonTse]

retard, stop talking

all K20's are not the same, they have variants, i know this, but the core engine is still the same - the b16, for example, can only go so far... then they replaced it

i know about hte 3rd gear recall, my car was not in the VIN range either, but its not perfect, but then again,t he 2nd gear issue is a bigger issue to me

stop trying to show off your limited knowledge of things civic just because you go around washing cars in your job - go drink and drive some more and post how awesome you are on 8th gen

FYI - this kid drinks & drives drunk, with his N, in the car his parents paid for or pay for and then goes and tells all on 8thgencivic... so my rant isn't without prior reason

please read my post. i said NOT ALL k20's are the same. and no i don't wash cars. go cry about it, please.

and fyi, who ever said i drank and drove in the civic? if you're going to try and flame me, try to post the right information. just go cry about it.

people don't want your garbage in this thread that is actually asking a real question.

[ecsw]

Also which car(s) can be had for <$30k?

I think si is a great car. I got my brand new 2008 RX-8 fully loaded (GT with moon roof) under $30k + taxes. :)

I believe Honda's low interest rate is for cash price. if you finance it, u pay msrp. That's why it's called "cash rebate".

At lease that's what the sales in Acura/Honda told me last time I checked. but they may have changed after the recession gets worse i guess. :p