[StylinRed]

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45552000/gif/_45552694_south_china-sea_466.gif

A UN commission hoping to agree new maritime boundaries looks set to pit China against some of its neighbours.

China claims that a series of island chains in the South China Sea are part of its sovereign territory - but so do several other countries.

Most coastal states have to submit declarations on where they see their boundaries by 13 May.

A total of 48 nations have made full claims, and dozens more have made preliminary submissions.

"This is the sweep after which the maritime limits should be fixed... the final big adaptation of the world map," Harald Brekke, vice-chairman of the UN Commission on the Limits of the Continental Shelf, told Reuters news agency.

Under existing laws, a nation is allowed to exploit the resources on the seabed up to 200 nautical miles from its shoreline.

But some nations are able to extend their claims as a result of their landmasses - or continental shelf - extending into the sea.

But the exact limits of who can use what have not been put on an internationally agreed map - until now.

"We are seeing many overlapping submissions," Mr Brekke said...

But perhaps one of the most complicated areas to resolve is who owns what in the South China Sea, with China, the Philippines, Vietnam, Taiwan, Indonesia and Malaysia all having competing claims.

Chinese foreign ministry spokesman Ma Zhaoxu says the country has indisputable sovereignty over disputed South China Sea islands.

He says this jurisdiction also extends to what is below the seabed - which is important because the South China Sea has valuable oil and gas reserves.

China has recently become more assertive in pushing its territorial claims in the area, according to the BBC's Michael Bristow in Beijing.

It has formally told the UN not to consider a similar claim from Vietnam.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8047206.stm

[hk20000]

wow that's pr-e-tty far from the shoreline there, China....

[Blinky]

wow that's pr-e-tty far from the shoreline there, China....

It makes more sense if the disputed islands are ceded to the Chinese.

[BNR32_Coupe]

It makes more sense if the disputed islands are ceded to the Chinese.

why? they're clearly closer to the other countries.

[RacePace]

Wow, so pretty much Malaysia can't even send out a boat from most of their shore line. Bunch of assholes

[silk]

why not ? US has Military Bases around the world anyways....

They think they are the shit, ruler of the world

[DDauge]

wow that's pr-e-tty far from the shoreline there, China....

The reason that China has claim over that sea area further off its homeland is because there are these islands in the South China Sea that are historically Chinese islands. There has been Chinese jurisdiction over these islands for thousands of years. Similiar to the US which has claim on the sea area near Hawaii..which is much further off US homeland

the US has military base in Korea, Guam island, Hawaii and in Okinawa...
even in Germany and Saudi Arabia.

Thats way more further than the US homeland.

[BoneThug]

are there military bases on those islands?

[Blinky]

Do I sense another Chinese thread :D

why not ? US has Military Bases around the world anyways....


The reason that China has claim over that sea area further off its homeland is because there are these islands in the South China Sea that are historically Chinese islands. There has been Chinese jurisdiction over these islands for thousands of years. Similiar to the US which has claim on the sea area near Hawaii..which is much further off US homeland

the US has military base in Korea, Guam island, Hawaii and in Okinawa...
even in Germany and Saudi Arabia.

Thats way more further than the US homeland.

ROFLcakes @ the ignorance.

Hawaii = undisputably part of US territory.
Guam = US possession

Military base =/= territorial possession with accompanying territorial rights. Bases are there via agreement.

These islands = disputed claim (I have no idea of the details around the claims).

why? they're clearly closer to the other countries.

I agree. However, I can see why the claim would be made and why it could be advanced further through the Chinese claim to the islands.

[DDauge]

Do I sense another Chinese thread :D





ROFLcakes @ the ignorance.

Hawaii = undisputably part of US territory.
Guam = US possession

Military base =/= territorial possession with accompanying territorial rights. Bases are there via agreement.

These islands = disputed claim (I have no idea of the details around the claims).



I agree. However, I can see why the claim would be made and why it could be advanced further through the Chinese claim to the islands.


China has claims over these islands because there has always been military and naval bases on those islands by the Chinese trending back thousands of years. However the largest island of them all, the Tai-Ping island is currently controlled by the Republic of China (Taiwan) military and is under Taiwan's jurisdiction, and PRC China and ROC China (Taiwan) are still trying to resolve their soverenty problems, and that gave the south east asian countries a chance to grab the islands while China and Taiwan are still in dispute.

[twitchyzero]

The reason that China has claim over that sea area further off its homeland is because there are these islands in the South China Sea that are historically Chinese islands. There has been Chinese jurisdiction over these islands for thousands of years. Similiar to the US which has claim on the sea area near Hawaii..which is much further off US homeland

the US has military base in Korea, Guam island, Hawaii and in Okinawa...
even in Germany and Saudi Arabia.

Thats way more further than the US homeland.
Sorry, flawed argument.

History is history. You're talking about something that occured thousands of years ago by a totally different gov't.

If you truly believe in their claim, then I guess UK can still claim 40% of Africa the other 40% for France..and most of South America is still under Spain.

[Gt-R R34]

Sorry, flawed argument.

History is history. You're talking about something that occured thousands of years ago by a totally different gov't.

If you truly believe in their claim, then I guess UK can still claim 40% of Africa the other 40% for France..and most of South America is still under Spain.

pwned.

[DDauge]

Sorry, flawed argument.

History is history. You're talking about something that occured thousands of years ago by a totally different gov't.

If you truly believe in their claim, then I guess UK can still claim 40% of Africa the other 40% for France..and most of South America is still under Spain.


The difference is, China still control over half of those islands. And no point telling me this, I am just telling you why China is claiming these islands.

[dna82]

The reason that China has claim over that sea area further off its homeland is because there are these islands in the South China Sea that are historically Chinese islands. There has been Chinese jurisdiction over these islands for thousands of years. Similiar to the US which has claim on the sea area near Hawaii..which is much further off US homeland

the US has military base in Korea, Guam island, Hawaii and in Okinawa...
even in Germany and Saudi Arabia.

Thats way more further than the US homeland.

and you know what the wierd thing is? South Korea, Guam, Hawaii, and Okinawa; are great fuckin places to live.

likewise, Tibet and North Korea are shit places.

Get the drift?

[StylinRed]

i was wondering what argument the chinalovers would make, i see most of them kept out of the thread but the ones that ventured in.. wow.. once ancient historical claim and comparing us military bases to ownership? lol

[SpuGen]

You know, we could always fight over it.
Billions of people vs coalition of billions of people. Lets see who wins.

One on One? Fuck that 3 on one. No Duels.

[fetched]

People don't bother reading before they reply.
Every other island on that map is also trying to get a much bigger boundary than the 200 mile line, only China is marked for what they want.
If you read the fine lines in the article, every country has their right to 200 miles of exclusive marine boundary. Look at where all the disputed islands are, if they are disputed, it could be every countries right to mark that country theirs and create a marine boundary around the disputed islands, that's exactly what China did
It also mentioned in the article that the bigger nations are able to extend their boundary because of their land mass.

By the way DNA, you should really be quiet. This isn't a place you belong. Reading your comments equals failure of any Asian related knowledge.

[dna82]

People don't bother reading before they reply.
Every other island on that map is also trying to get a much bigger boundary than the 200 mile line, only China is marked for what they want.
If you read the fine lines in the article, every country has their right to 200 miles of exclusive marine boundary. Look at where all the disputed islands are, if they are disputed, it could be every countries right to mark that country theirs and create a marine boundary around the disputed islands, that's exactly what China did
It also mentioned in the article that the bigger nations are able to extend their boundary because of their land mass.

By the way DNA, you should really be quiet. This isn't a place you belong. Reading your comments equals failure of any Asian related knowledge.

oh, my reply wasn't to the article, it was about ddauge's comment, you should practice what you preach and read my replies carefully.

sorry fetched, we're not in communist china, i'm allowed to say what I want on the INNERNETS!!!11!

[fetched]

Of course i was reading what you said. I said that you have no Asian related knowledge because you referred Tibet as a shit place. Maybe, just maybe you should listen to someone that's actually been there and tell you it's not. Like me. It doesn't have nice hotels, it isn't developed, but the untouched habitat is a different kind of enjoyment than Hawaii per say

And yes, your free to make a fool out of yourself anytime you feel like.

[tool001]

what Blinky said " Do I sense another Chinese thread "

[dna82]

Of course i was reading what you said. I said that you have no Asian related knowledge because you referred Tibet as a shit place. Maybe, just maybe you should listen to someone that's actually been there and tell you it's not. Like me. It doesn't have nice hotels, it isn't developed, but the untouched habitat is a different kind of enjoyment than Hawaii per say

And yes, your free to make a fool out of yourself anytime you feel like.

anyplace which doesn't guarantee your basic rights is a shit place, therefor, Tibet falls into the 'shit' category. Is it that difficult for you to see?

or does having nice scenery and a good hotel make for a wonderful country?

oh oh oh! here comes the 'work in progress' arguement!!!

comeback and talk to me when you've grown out of your ethnic pride phase.

[fetched]

The whole philosophy behind human rights. It is much bigger than you and I.

[dna82]

The whole philosophy behind human rights. It is much bigger than you and I.

please give a more vague answer, it makes you look smarter!

[hk20000]

People don't bother reading before they reply.
Every other island on that map is also trying to get a much bigger boundary than the 200 mile line, only China is marked for what they want.
If you read the fine lines in the article, every country has their right to 200 miles of exclusive marine boundary. Look at where all the disputed islands are, if they are disputed, it could be every countries right to mark that country theirs and create a marine boundary around the disputed islands, that's exactly what China did
It also mentioned in the article that the bigger nations are able to extend their boundary because of their land mass.

By the way DNA, you should really be quiet. This isn't a place you belong. Reading your comments equals failure of any Asian related knowledge.

yes but the China's current declaration is a lot more than the 200mile line which is the standard.... Those dotted islands look like they belong to Phillipines or Malaysia more than anything....

[dna82]

yes but the China's current declaration is a lot more than the 200mile line which is the standard.... Those dotted islands look like they belong to Phillipines or Malaysia more than anything....

nah, see those tiny tiny uninhabital islands in the center? they're saying their 200 nautical mile line is starting from them, not from the actual mainland.

[impactX]

nah, see those tiny tiny uninhabital islands in the center? they're saying their 200 nautical mile line is starting from them, not from the actual mainland.

SOMEONE FINALLY POINTED THIS OUT!

[Synaptik]

this is all just political bullshit. every country in that region lays claim to those waters because it puts them in a weak position if they dont do so. its like copyright and trademark protection...if you dont use it, you lose it. i doubt china realistically expects control over those islands.

[hk20000]

oh I see what you mean now..... then yeah bleh it makes sense. Go China!

[DDauge]

anyplace which doesn't guarantee your basic rights is a shit place, therefor, Tibet falls into the 'shit' category. Is it that difficult for you to see?

or does having nice scenery and a good hotel make for a wonderful country?

oh oh oh! here comes the 'work in progress' arguement!!!

comeback and talk to me when you've grown out of your ethnic pride phase.


fetched has a point there dna. I am not even from China and I am not defending it, but your Asian knowledge is really lacking for you to be posting here. If you look at Tibet history it was a far wrose place when it was under its British colony status, slavery abound, absurd living standard. Now Tibet is much different.

And for those who talk about freedom of speech..this is off topic but I have lived in China for an extended period of time I can say they get as much freedom of speech as we do here, even more..here you are not allowed to public anything racist but in China you can do that freely. In China you are not allowed to publish or organise a social disorder, but here you can. I think its not that they don't have freedom of speech, it is the definition of "freedom" that is different, and don't force your values onto others, thats just like the Americans.

[tool001]

freaking stupid, another 10-20 years, and they all will be under water.
wish china was putting as much effort into fighting pollution...

[StylinRed]

fetched has a point there dna. I am not even from China and I am not defending it, but your Asian knowledge is really lacking for you to be posting here. If you look at Tibet history it was a far wrose place when it was under its British colony status, slavery abound, absurd living standard. Now Tibet is much different.

And for those who talk about freedom of speech..this is off topic but I have lived in China for an extended period of time I can say they get as much freedom of speech as we do here, even more..here you are not allowed to public anything racist but in China you can do that freely. In China you are not allowed to publish or organise a social disorder, but here you can. I think its not that they don't have freedom of speech, it is the definition of "freedom" that is different, and don't force your values onto others, thats just like the Americans.


DDauge you should replace your Taiwan flag for a China flag.... i think half if not more of Revscene have lived in China (or so it seems) and they would support China only if they feel they have something to gain or.. have been on heroin so the views are so delusional, but having said that there are people who are blind to their surroundings everywhere and it's no surprise that you are one of them (if you are being genuine in your views)




you see we can all make accusations without giving any substance to it... so please quit speaking down to dna because he doesn't think China is shangri-la

[DDauge]

DDauge you should replace your Taiwan flag for a China flag.... i think half if not more of Revscene have lived in China (or so it seems) and they would support China only if they feel they have something to gain or.. have been on heroin so the views are so delusional, but having said that there are people who are blind to their surroundings everywhere and it's no surprise that you are one of them (if you are being genuine in your views)




you see we can all make accusations without giving any substance to it... so please quit speaking down to dna because he doesn't think China is shangri-la


I think you are the one being delusional and fooled by the media..The fact that I am stating my views about China doesn't mean that I think China is shangri-la, China definitely has its short comings, I am not glorifying it or anything, it's just the fact that when people have absolutely no idea what they are talking about and its apparent that they know nothing about China try to pretend they know it all that makes me feel compelled to write some facts... to believe it or not is your decision.

[dna82]

fetched has a point there dna. I am not even from China and I am not defending it, but your Asian knowledge is really lacking for you to be posting here. If you look at Tibet history it was a far wrose place when it was under its British colony status, slavery abound, absurd living standard. Now Tibet is much different.

And for those who talk about freedom of speech..this is off topic but I have lived in China for an extended period of time I can say they get as much freedom of speech as we do here, even more..here you are not allowed to public anything racist but in China you can do that freely. In China you are not allowed to publish or organise a social disorder, but here you can. I think its not that they don't have freedom of speech, it is the definition of "freedom" that is different, and don't force your values onto others, thats just like the Americans.


oh here we go again. I never said tibet was a happy utopian, perfect, or even near perfect society before the chinese annexed them. I'm saying, and read carefully here.

If the Tibetans wanted to be part of China they should have a VOICE IN THEIR OWN FUCKIN DESTINY. They should be allowed to decide for themselves if they want to be part of China or become some backwater shithole country.

The justification for annexing Tibet to 'free' them from serfdom is ludicrous because you've replaced one shitty government with another shitty one. The real sad thing is that the Chinese government has convinced their own people that for the sake of a little money, sacrificing all your basic human rights is worth it.

p.s i'm not even going to list my 'credentials' for having an opinion about China, i'm a human being and I don't have to tell you how 'chinese' I am to form an opinion about China.

[Synaptik]

oh here we go again. I never said tibet was a happy utopian, perfect, or even near perfect society before the chinese annexed them. I'm saying, and read carefully here.

If the Tibetans wanted to be part of China they should have a VOICE IN THEIR OWN FUCKIN DESTINY. They should be allowed to decide for themselves if they want to be part of China or become some backwater shithole country.

The justification for annexing Tibet to 'free' them from serfdom is ludicrous because you've replaced one shitty government with another shitty one. The real sad thing is that the Chinese government has convinced their own people that for the sake of a little money, sacrificing all your basic human rights is worth it.

p.s i'm not even going to list my 'credentials' for having an opinion about China, i'm a human being and I don't have to tell you how 'chinese' I am to form an opinion about China.

do you know what real tibetans want? or do you just know what the leading monks tell the media, gobbled up and sensationalized by western journalists eager to point the finger at the big bad communists?

have you ever talked to any commoner from tibet?

i think its pretty ironic that you're talking about letting them choose their own destiny when the reality is that the monks will decide everything. theres only two options here: a shitty government, or an even worse one.

also, china will never let tibet gain independence. its not about human rights or even pride, but national security. so lets stop beating this dead horse in every china thread.

[cow20xx]

honestly those of you that use tibet as an arguing point against china, do you really give a fuck about tibet? or it's just a easy way to jab china?

no one really gives a fuck about tibet for the sake of tibet, so stop using that in an argument please.

[scheng924]

ok... people who say china should give tibet independence doesn't understand the issue...

on top of that.. that issue is so debatable that it'll never ever EVER be settled in the next 70 years...

i would give my point of view but you guys would just start flaming and telling me i'm a sensationalist or whatever you guys wanna call me... i'm not from China... i've been keeping up with what's going on there and also the history behind it.. i don't know all the facts.. and i have talked to people from tibet.. i've never been to the place...

and ihave an opinion.. so what.. the original post here isn't even about tibet.. it's about these islands...

if you want to criticize the gov't.. go ahead... but don't drag tibet or anything that's not part of the issue into this...

it's almost like we need a TIBET VS CHINA thread in fight club or something

[DDauge]

oh here we go again. I never said tibet was a happy utopian, perfect, or even near perfect society before the chinese annexed them. I'm saying, and read carefully here.

If the Tibetans wanted to be part of China they should have a VOICE IN THEIR OWN FUCKIN DESTINY. They should be allowed to decide for themselves if they want to be part of China or become some backwater shithole country.

The justification for annexing Tibet to 'free' them from serfdom is ludicrous because you've replaced one shitty government with another shitty one. The real sad thing is that the Chinese government has convinced their own people that for the sake of a little money, sacrificing all your basic human rights is worth it.

p.s i'm not even going to list my 'credentials' for having an opinion about China, i'm a human being and I don't have to tell you how 'chinese' I am to form an opinion about China.


Tibet will gain its independence the day Quebec is seperated from Canada.
Quebec wants to be seperated from Canada for pretty much the same reason Tibet wants to seperate from China (different culture). human right and all that bs is just an excuse to gain western media's attention.

Tibet will be a far more shittier place if it wasn't for the Chinese government..I doubt you have any idea what you are talking about.

Almost all the infrastructures in Tibet now, including power plant, cellphone towers, sewage, rail roads and highways, schools and library are built by the Chinese government..without China Tibet is simply a wasteland.

[dna82]

Tibet will gain its independence the day Quebec is seperated from Canada.
Quebec wants to be seperated from Canada for pretty much the same reason Tibet wants to seperate from China (different culture). human right and all that bs is just an excuse to gain western media's attention.

Tibet will be a far more shittier place if it wasn't for the Chinese government..I doubt you have any idea what you are talking about.

Almost all the infrastructures in Tibet now, including power plant, cellphone towers, sewage, rail roads and highways, schools and library are built by the Chinese government..without China Tibet is simply a wasteland.


same tired arguement.The real sad thing is that the Chinese government has convinced their own people that for the sake of a little money, sacrificing all your basic human rights is worth it.
WTF are you talking about? holy shit, Quebec got the referendum, we gave them a choice, they choose to stay. How can you even compare the situation?
by the way, you never answered my question. you like to avoid the difficult points don't you? here's a simpler format.

if you were dating this chick
and you guys broke up for a while. she's thinking 'things aren't working out for me, I need some time alone to think about where this relationship is going'. and your like 'WTF! I bought you all these pricey bags and rings and shit, now you just gonna leave me?'

so now your all pissed off at your girlfriend, would it be okay to threaten her with violence if she really broke up with you?

just answer the question.

[twitchyzero]

Tibet will gain its independence the day Quebec is seperated from Canada.

LOL!11

If Tibet will gain independence...we probably won't see it until China changes its complete gov't structure...and that probably wont be until we're in our 50's

[terkan]

And for those who talk about freedom of speech..this is off topic but I have lived in China for an extended period of time I can say they get as much freedom of speech as we do here, even more..here you are not allowed to public anything racist but in China you can do that freely..

Wait.. something's wrong with this statement, I wonder if you can spot it.

[dna82]

ok... people who say china should give tibet independence doesn't understand the issue...

on top of that.. that issue is so debatable that it'll never ever EVER be settled in the next 70 years...

i would give my point of view but you guys would just start flaming and telling me i'm a sensationalist or whatever you guys wanna call me... i'm not from China... i've been keeping up with what's going on there and also the history behind it.. i don't know all the facts.. and i have talked to people from tibet.. i've never been to the place...

and ihave an opinion.. so what.. the original post here isn't even about tibet.. it's about these islands...

if you want to criticize the gov't.. go ahead... but don't drag tibet or anything that's not part of the issue into this...

it's almost like we need a TIBET VS CHINA thread in fight club or something

oh i didn't drag this off topic, someone else did, i'm just defending my points, like *all* valid discussions should do. I don't like to rely on vague dismissive statements to prove points.

yes i'm sure you talked to *all* the people in Tibet. I'm sure just because you know a couple of dudes from Tibet makes YOU the leading authority on what Tibetans want. Same way I know a couple of guys from Australia which leads me to believe all Australians are perverted bastards. -just think about why this statement is wrong-

do you know what real tibetans want? or do you just know what the leading monks tell the media, gobbled up and sensationalized by western journalists eager to point the finger at the big bad communists?

have you ever talked to any commoner from tibet?


also, china will never let tibet gain independence. its not about human rights or even pride, but national security. so lets stop beating this dead horse in every china thread.

another typical response. lets tear into this...
first off, deflecting the blame to western media because it portrays China for what it really is, doesn't really help your cause because, well, you haven't answered the actual allegations. You are like a child getting scolded by his parents and replying in either 'Why do you always pick on me?' or 'Well he started it!'. Blaming the 'Big Bad Media' only takes you so far until you realize, everybody deals with it, China is no exception. For every bad story about China I can find 3 bad stories on the US, and atleast they aren't as whiny as the Chinese.

No, I haven't talked to a Tibetan, nor do i care to. Because it's irrelevant. What is relevant, is the fact that all people deserve the ability to choose who rules over them. the prime word is choice.

Issue of national security, LOL LOL LOL. Yeah, i'm sure those terrorist tibetans needed to be invaded by China in the 1950's because they were launching seperatist attacks on China from there! Scores dead! hundreds kidnapped! Oh the humanity!

i think its pretty ironic that you're talking about letting them choose their own destiny when the reality is that the monks will decide everything. theres only two options here: a shitty government, or an even worse one.

There is a third option, Tibetans can vote for a *gasp" parliamentary democracy like most of the civilized world. But hey, the choice is theirs, not yours to make. If they want to go back to a style of Serfdom, so be it. as long as it's their choice not yours.

And for those who talk about freedom of speech..this is off topic but I have lived in China for an extended period of time I can say they get as much freedom of speech as we do here, even more..here you are not allowed to public anything racist but in China you can do that freely..

Why do I even talk to you about human rights when it becomes more obvious that you know nothing about your own rights in Canada. Here's a free lesson. You are allowed to be publically racist in Canada, as long as you do not incite violence against them. Free speech, obviously, wasted on you.

[scheng924]

oh i didn't drag this off topic, someone else did, i'm just defending my points, like *all* valid discussions should do. I don't like to rely on vague dismissive statements to prove points.

yes i'm sure you talked to *all* the people in Tibet. I'm sure just because you know a couple of dudes from Tibet makes YOU the leading authority on what Tibetans want. Same way I know a couple of guys from Australia which leads me to believe all Australians are perverted bastards. -just think about why this statement is wrong-

But notice how I didn't input my opinion and also didn't try to show i'm the "leading authority" on what Tibetans want (I don't really get where you got that from my post but maybe it's my bad). And I also clearly didn't justify what I thought of the issue. I always hated getting into this Tibet argument and my post wasn't actually directed to anyone specific or you for that matter, I guess I was just trying to say stay on topic. It's more about the islands than Tibet haha. However, Tibet is definitely not a shit place. I don't think any of us on RS here are qualified to give inputs and judgments on Tibet that's all.

[El Bastardo]

What is relevant, is the fact that all people deserve the ability to choose who rules over them. the prime word is choice.



The best form of general rule is the ability for the mass to choose it's own destiny. The people of a nation should be able to freely elect their leadership and shape it's future.

Its the natural result of the highest form of political evolution.

[DDauge]

The best form of general rule is the ability for the mass to choose it's own destiny. The people of a nation should be able to freely elect their leadership and shape it's future.

Its the natural result of the highest form of political evolution.


I think there is a fundamental difference between Eastern and Western philosophy of freedom and human rights.

In the West, people believe that man are born with human rights and freedom of choice, regardless whether this man is a low life scum or a saint.

In the East (or Sinic philosophy so to speak), human right is not a right..its a privilege. You have to prove your worth before you are given the freedom and the privileges.Namely, if you behave like an animal/low life, you are treated like an animal..thus you deserve no human "rights". On the other hand, if you behave like a saint, then you are really treated like a saint and honoured.

I can see the merits and short comings of both philosophies, but while China does not force its values on us, let's not judge China with our values, we are better of just minding our own business.

[Blinky]

Eastern philosophy?

W.

T.

F.

Japan doesn't hold this train of thought about human rights. Nor does India, or the Phillipines, or South Korea.

So, at what point of sainthood is one allowed to criticize the government or form a political party?

[dna82]

I think there is a fundamental difference between Eastern and Western philosophy of freedom and human rights.

In the West, people believe that man are born with human rights and freedom of choice, regardless whether this man is a low life scum or a saint.

In the East (or Sinic philosophy so to speak), human right is not a right..its a privilege. You have to prove your worth before you are given the freedom and the privileges.Namely, if you behave like an animal/low life, you are treated like an animal..thus you deserve no human "rights". On the other hand, if you behave like a saint, then you are really treated like a saint and honoured.

I can see the merits and short comings of both philosophies, but while China does not force its values on us, let's not judge China with our values, we are better of just minding our own business.

your just gonna keep on ignoring and deflecting my arguements aren't you?
oddly reminiscent of certain shit countries.

[Meowjin]

i'm more concerned why the tool has a taiwan flag for an avatar

DNA don't bother, it's already been discussed in another thread

to quote my self, in reference to ddguage.

"you're a fucking moron"

[m4k4v4li]

another typical response. lets tear into this...
first off, deflecting the blame to western media because it portrays China for what it really is

:haha:


everybody deals with it, China is no exception. For every bad story about China I can find 3 bad stories on the US, and atleast they aren't as whiny as the Chinese.

I bet they would be if they were told how they should govern their own country day in day out by China

Issue of national security, LOL LOL LOL. Yeah, i'm sure those terrorist tibetans needed to be invaded by China in the 1950's because they were launching seperatist attacks on China from there! Scores dead! hundreds kidnapped! Oh the humanity!

No.... national security in the sense of having the US all up in your grill if China were to give up Tibet to a ruling class of monks


There is a third option, Tibetans can vote for a *gasp" parliamentary democracy like most of the civilized world. But hey, the choice is theirs, not yours to make. If they want to go back to a style of Serfdom, so be it. as long as it's their choice not yours.

chances are tibet will just revert back to a style of serfdom under the cloak of a fixed democracy while the western world is celebrating in joy of how tibet has finally been democratized and liberated from the great evils of china

[m4k4v4li]

If democratic styles of governments can run efficiently in NA... they obviously should be able to in every other part of the world right? countries not under democratic rule are obviously trying to strip their citizens of all their rights and freedoms. as the leaders of tomorrow, it is our responsibility to ensure evil communist regimes such as china that run under a 3rd world maoist type of mentality comparable to nazi germany seize to exist

[twitchyzero]

i'm more concerned why the tool has a taiwan flag for an avatar



that's essential what happens when the ROC gov't allows Chinese businessmen to slowly take over Taiwan + buying taiwan stocks :lol

[dna82]

:haha:


1)I bet they would be if they were told how they should govern their own country day in day out by China


2)No.... national security in the sense of having the US all up in your grill if China were to give up Tibet to a ruling class of monks


3)chances are tibet will just revert back to a style of serfdom under the cloak of a fixed democracy while the western world is celebrating in joy of how tibet has finally been democratized and liberated from the great evils of china
1) well, it hasn't happened because China has nothing to say. I mean you can't criticize the Americans on human rights because, well, they're much better at it then the Chinese. They can't criticize them on much, because well, their just better at most things. Above all, there is transparency in the American system, atleast they acknowledge fucking up. They can handle criticism because that's the american way.

2) so, what kind of chronic were you smoking when you made up this conspiracy theory?

3) *yawn* another -what if- scenario presented. groundless, baseless, and overall ridiculous.

again and again, nobody has dared answer any of my questions, only tossing more deflective arguements. maybe when you grow up someday, you can answer straight questions with a straight answer.

[DDauge]

i'm more concerned why the tool has a taiwan flag for an avatar

DNA don't bother, it's already been discussed in another thread

to quote my self, in reference to ddguage.

"you're a fucking moron"


you are a complete idiot. I am from Taiwan and thats why I use this flag. Mind you, the official name of Taiwan is still the Republic of China. And what does it have to do with this dicussion? So just because I don't agree with you I am a moron? You are a true example why freedom of speech is a failure because tools like you cant even post anything semi-constructive.

[StylinRed]

no sorry ddauge majin has it right

[m4k4v4li]

haha its not a conspiracy theory

its no secret that the dalai lama and the whole free tibet movement is heavily funded by the CIA

same goes for any other political movement that threatens chinese sovereignty ie falun dafa