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: Whistler Mountain Biking $$$


kungpow
05-18-2009, 01:06 PM
I just got a quote from whistler for 3 nights and it's $197 per person with accommodation and 2-day bike park life ticket.

Here are the additional costs because I don't have it:
-$100 for high performance (that's all they have) bike rental
-$40 for full body amour

Rentals: 140 x 2 for 2days = $280

Grand total: 280 + 197 = $477.

So I'm looking at half a grand for mountain biking at whistler. I have a bike with downhill fork suspension from canadian tire (super cycle), do you guys recommend me using that or it is going to snap in half?

I don't know how much high performance mountain bikes are, if I were to get one like what they have in whistler, how much am I looking at?

Where's a good place to get full body amour for mountain biking?

Thanks!!!

the_rickster
05-18-2009, 02:51 PM
fanatyko is awesome. rent a bike, leave yours at home.

Ducdesmo
05-18-2009, 03:53 PM
It depends on what your skill level is and how hard you want to ride. If you are looking for an easy coast down the mtn, just bring your own bike. If you want to experience what a real DH bike is like, go for the full experience. You could prob pick up a pretty decent DH bike off Craigslist for about a grand.

nsmb
05-18-2009, 04:50 PM
rent a bike. the supercycle is a piece of shit

98twofourty
05-18-2009, 04:58 PM
rent one otherwise your SC, WILL snap and u will get hurt. theres a reason they only rent out 3000$ bikes there.

dmc_civic
05-18-2009, 05:56 PM
supercycle haha, yeah that wont last at whistler. I have a 2002 Norco Atomik, with Mar. Super T's, new Big Earl Tires, and grips, recently tuned good condition, with brand new leg pads and gloves if interested?

pawdregry4g
05-18-2009, 06:01 PM
agreed with everyone else
I've gone a few years and have tried the trails with both a front suspension with normal v-brakes to a dual suspension with 7 inches of travel. Bikes you find at walmart or costco will murder on the hills and after your first run your forearms will be spent. You'll also encounter speedbumps on the runs which makes things pretty rough on low-end bikes.

Oh and if you're looking for new equipment, I've found Overtime bikes (infront of famous players by superstore on lougheed highway) to sell bike goods are pretty decent prices. other stores: caps bicycle shop, sharpey's cycles, dizzy cycles

SolidPenguin
05-18-2009, 06:03 PM
I have a bike with downhill fork suspension from canadian tire (super cycle)

Haha no you dont have downhill forks. They might LOOK like downhill forks though.

A high performance mountain bike that you can rent at Whistler if you were to buy one would cost probably....$1500-$3000 depending on model. A downhill race bike with REAL downhill forks would definately be $5000+

PavelGTR
05-18-2009, 06:06 PM
I would never take a supercycle or one of those costco bikes out. I once biked with some costco bike and they get destroyed so quick.

maxxxboost
05-18-2009, 06:08 PM
Super Cycle is not for downhill use. It will probably fall apart.

I've taken a hardtail (front suspension) bike down Whistler and full suspension and both are fun, but if you want a softer ride, rent a bike.

If you do decide to take the SC bike downhilling, get it checked out and make sure it is working properly so you don't hurt yourself.
But once you see all the bikes on the hills, you'll want to get a better bike.:D

kungpow
05-18-2009, 06:11 PM
Should I be looking at mountain bikes at sport check or they are not good enough as well?

I'll probably get a used bike from criaglist.

What brands should I go for? Norco.....

dmc_civic
05-18-2009, 06:14 PM
Yo kungpow I have a bike a brand new Leg pad/armour and a brand new full face helmet and gloves Are you interested?

pawdregry4g
05-18-2009, 06:20 PM
Sports check won't have the ones you'd want either. They supply the high-end iron horse bikes but they would have to order it and it would put you back at least a grand. www.pinkbike.com www.nsmb.com. Check out the buy and sell sections, you're better off buying a used bike.

maxxxboost
05-18-2009, 06:24 PM
Don't look a brands, but what you plan to use it for.

Check out *bike shops* and not Bigbox stores

Check out Cove bike Shop in North Vancouver, atleast go talk to them so you can get an idea and learn something.

some brands are, Norco, Rocky Mountain, Kona, Trek. These are prob the more common bike brands.

hud 91gt
05-18-2009, 06:32 PM
From your post, it seem's you know very little about riding. Your bike is not going to be fun, and it will probably rattle apart the first run down the hill. Either buy a used bike, or go for the rental. You will have alot of fun if you go for the rental. Here is the first decent bike that came up when I search usedvancouver.com Something you may want to look into. I havn't been following prices for 6-7 years, but this was a good bike in it's day, and will fill your needs 100%.
http://www.usedvancouver.com/classified-ad/467195

bikerx
05-18-2009, 06:42 PM
I just got back from Whistler yesterday WOOT sun galore. Do not take your super cycle

Look into renting bikes in vancouver.
-cove bike shop i believe rents bikes out.

Your body will thank you for having a proper bike.

also if your not familiar with jumps and such i highly recommend riding with a instructor.They will teach you how to jump and ride safely :)

nsmb
05-18-2009, 07:38 PM
Look into renting bikes in vancouver.
-cove bike shop i believe rents bikes out.


that would be the worst... . rent a bike up there, if you fuck something up on the bike, the store will be at the bottom the hill, and they likely wont charge for minor repairs.

SkinnyPupp
05-18-2009, 09:24 PM
If you're an inexperienced rider, you'll want to rent a hardcore DH bike. That way you can just sit on it, and fly down the mountain. If you want more of a challenge, take a hardtail to Whistler. Without the squishy shocks and way-back seating position, you'll need to work hard not to land on your face :)

Meowjin
05-18-2009, 10:34 PM
i'd love to see the supercycle on a-line or fuck even b-line hahahahahha

I use to ride my sasquatch down a-line. I think I was the only one to ride my hardtail.

hud 91gt
05-20-2009, 08:17 AM
i'd love to see the supercycle on a-line or fuck even b-line hahahahahha

I use to ride my sasquatch down a-line. I think I was the only one to ride my hardtail.

What's so bad about A Line? That is one smoothest runs out there, but I guess most of Whistler is fairly groomed. Hardtails for life! I miss riding, I miss my Minuteman!

scheng924
05-20-2009, 10:50 AM
damn.. DH biking sounds fun

Volvo-brickster
05-20-2009, 10:04 PM
Rent a bike and see how much you like it.

If its something you will intend to keep up, go to www.pinkbike.com and look for used bikes.

kungpow
05-24-2009, 11:45 AM
http://www.sportchek.ca/sportchek/do/style?menuId=61&styleId=47511

Is that Iron Horse bike good enough for whistler?

Meowjin
05-24-2009, 11:48 AM
What's so bad about A Line? That is one smoothest runs out there, but I guess most of Whistler is fairly groomed. Hardtails for life! I miss riding, I miss my Minuteman!

I think your mistaken.

There are so many braking divots, and the launches would make his bike fall apart.

Meowjin
05-24-2009, 11:48 AM
http://www.sportchek.ca/sportchek/do/style?menuId=61&styleId=47511

Is that Iron Horse bike good enough for whistler?

Stop being cheap and buy a used bike from bb.nsmb.com

Check their buy and sell.

AAnthony
05-24-2009, 11:54 AM
http://www.sportchek.ca/sportchek/do/style?menuId=61&styleId=47511

Is that Iron Horse bike good enough for whistler?

lol, $400 for a "high end" full-suspension,:haha:
Its been said before, instead of buying a new piece of shit, buy a used quality bike. Go on pinkbike.com or nsmb.com. I recommend full suspension, as opposed to a hardtail(i rode my hardtail 4 days straight at whistler, i was sooo done)

Meowjin
05-24-2009, 11:58 AM
^yeah 2 days on my sasquatch and I nearly died. Especially when I rode schleyer.

pawdregry4g
05-24-2009, 01:08 PM
http://www.sportchek.ca/sportchek/do/style?menuId=61&styleId=47511

Is that Iron Horse bike good enough for whistler?

nah, more along the lines of http://www.ironhorsebikes.com/bikes/6point09/6point4.php

Meowjin
05-24-2009, 01:43 PM
ironhorse went bankrupt. I'd stay away.

kungpow
05-24-2009, 04:14 PM
Stop being cheap and buy a used bike from bb.nsmb.com

Check their buy and sell.

Oh..what the hell. I thought iron horse makes good bikes?

Meowjin
05-24-2009, 06:19 PM
What don't you get. It's been said so many times. 300 dollars will not get you a good bike. The bike you listed is a seriously light trail bike, used by mom/dad for going biking on a gravel trail.

You are going to be riding extreme downhill, with 6-15 foot drops/launches, divets.

That bike wouldn't even last b-line.

BrendanS
05-24-2009, 06:26 PM
i'd love to see the supercycle on a-line or fuck even b-line hahahahahha

I use to ride my sasquatch down a-line. I think I was the only one to ride my hardtail.
nope, had a manik and my buddies tactik haha.

Get a cove :D
I love whoring this picture out.
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m33/brendansiu/Bike/e9a2af54.jpg
that was after opening weekend. trails were miiiiint:thumbsup:. Word of advice, I wouldn't even consider taking a super-cycle with what you consider a DH fork down b-line. Rent a bike, can't remember what shop had it, but one shop had a session10 for rent. Rent that, they're amazing.

Meowjin
05-24-2009, 06:30 PM
i have no idea about bike lingo anymore. I just rent if I go to whistler. Nice peeler.

BrendanS
05-24-2009, 06:32 PM
i have no idea about bike lingo anymore. I just rent if I go to whistler. Nice peeler.
rent is good, you get top of the line components for the most part and a good bike, plus you have a way more fun experience than using a walmart bike. thanks its a playmate;)

kungpow
05-24-2009, 07:17 PM
What don't you get. It's been said so many times. 300 dollars will not get you a good bike. The bike you listed is a seriously light trail bike, used by mom/dad for going biking on a gravel trail.

You are going to be riding extreme downhill, with 6-15 foot drops/launches, divets.

That bike wouldn't even last b-line.

Got it. I thought it was the brand (craftsmanship) that didn't cut it. I will go look for a bike that can handle whistler.

pawdregry4g
05-24-2009, 09:26 PM
Oh..what the hell. I thought iron horse makes good bikes?

It's not that they don't make good bikes, it's just that their "good" bikes aren't on display at sports chek and you'd have to custom order it through them, setting you back a couple grand.

Volvo-brickster
05-24-2009, 09:40 PM
ive ridden a norco manik hardtail at whistler for a few weekends at a time

unless you have an iron spine and indestructible knees, get a full suspension

EmOne
05-24-2009, 11:21 PM
rode whistler yesterday, the new work they did on dirt merchant is fucking amazing.
Woke up today sore as hell.
If anybody want to ride next weekend give me a shout
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c304/hurrior/banshee-scythe-01.jpg

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c304/hurrior/IMG_3576.jpg

EmOne
05-24-2009, 11:23 PM
nope, had a manik and my buddies tactik haha.

Get a cove :D
I love whoring this picture out.

that was after opening weekend. trails were miiiiint:thumbsup:. Word of advice, I wouldn't even consider taking a super-cycle with what you consider a DH fork down b-line. Rent a bike, can't remember what shop had it, but one shop had a session10 for rent. Rent that, they're amazing.
nice, I need another wheel set for the park.
Want to go riding sometime?:p

SkinnyPupp
05-24-2009, 11:53 PM
Got it. I thought it was the brand (craftsmanship) that didn't cut it. I will go look for a bike that can handle whistler.
What do you have against renting?

orange7
05-25-2009, 12:17 AM
i'd love to see the supercycle on a-line or fuck even b-line hahahahahha

I use to ride my sasquatch down a-line. I think I was the only one to ride my hardtail.


haha... nope.. you're not the only one..

i used my 2005 norco sasquatch for downhill mountain biking...
err.. i did not enjoy the jumps cause there was no rear suspension to absorb the impact so my feet had a hard time sticking to the pedals.

oh well.. i sold my bike, and i'm done with mountain biking..... for now.

orange7
05-25-2009, 12:27 AM
WAITTTT A SECOND!!!!

am I the only one to notice this, but I think kungpow is a newbie!

err.. I would NOT recommend whistler for your first mountain biking experience. Try biking down the trail, Nicole (correct me if i'm wrong, I haven't biked for 3 years), on SFU mountain. If you can't handle that, consider more practice before whistler.

Also, take the full body armor package!

BrendanS
05-25-2009, 04:20 PM
not really, he can ride b-line... don't know what else. But the greens should be good, and crank it up is possible if he can some what jump.

Kungpow: word of wisdom, if you're going slow yield to the people ripping buy, don't think you wanna get tanked by some DH rider on a big bike

BrendanS
05-25-2009, 04:25 PM
nice, I need another wheel set for the park.
Want to go riding sometime?:p
get dee-maxs and never look back. Mine have been through hell and are true as a mofo. Let me know when you're up. I don't do much shore, nor any djs but I do, do whistler:thumbsup:. Just gimme a shout! What are you riding btw?

wahyinghung
05-25-2009, 04:40 PM
haha... nope.. you're not the only one..

i used my 2005 norco sasquatch for downhill mountain biking...
err.. i did not enjoy the jumps cause there was no rear suspension to absorb the impact so my feet had a hard time sticking to the pedals.

oh well.. i sold my bike, and i'm done with mountain biking..... for now.

I had also had an Norco sasquatch or was it Big foot don't remember the name which is like 10 years old now and I gave it away to a kid couple years back.......... maybe I should get a new bike :D

Spy228
05-25-2009, 04:45 PM
I have a bike with downhill fork suspension from canadian tire (super cycle)
this made me laugh:p

just rent a bike. The top of the line Canadian tire bike wont even come close to the bottom of the barrel of the real DH bikes. Make sure you get pads too, falling and breaking yourself is very likely.

Volvo-brickster
05-25-2009, 06:46 PM
WAITTTT A SECOND!!!!

am I the only one to notice this, but I think kungpow is a newbie!

err.. I would NOT recommend whistler for your first mountain biking experience. Try biking down the trail, Nicole (correct me if i'm wrong, I haven't biked for 3 years), on SFU mountain. If you can't handle that, consider more practice before whistler.

Also, take the full body armor package!

Nicoles at SFU is like an extended version of Ho Chi Minh

just technical, not really flowy

bikerx
05-25-2009, 08:02 PM
just got back from whistler today :) trails are mint.

he can ride Easy does it/ and b line. my buddies and i were riding the trails without pedaling :) very epicly fun. mind you we are duallies with atleast 6-8" of travel front and back .

SkinnyPupp
05-25-2009, 08:07 PM
WAITTTT A SECOND!!!!

am I the only one to notice this, but I think kungpow is a newbie!

err.. I would NOT recommend whistler for your first mountain biking experience. Try biking down the trail, Nicole (correct me if i'm wrong, I haven't biked for 3 years), on SFU mountain. If you can't handle that, consider more practice before whistler.

Also, take the full body armor package!
Not really, with a good full suspension bike, the bike is doing most of the work. I've been to Whistler with a noob, and all he had to do was sit on the bike and let it take him down. He loved it. Going on a hardtail is another story though. ;)

EmOne
05-25-2009, 09:05 PM
get dee-maxs and never look back. Mine have been through hell and are true as a mofo. Let me know when you're up. I don't do much shore, nor any djs but I do, do whistler:thumbsup:. Just gimme a shout! What are you riding btw?
grey scythe, might head up again this weekend.
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c304/hurrior/banshee-scythe-01.jpg

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c304/hurrior/IMG_3576.jpg

BrendanS
05-25-2009, 09:07 PM
nice I've never seen one of those in person, but they look sick. I won't be up there for a while, I have exams till second week of june

kungpow
05-31-2009, 10:28 AM
What do you have against renting?

Nothing, it's just that I'll be up there for 3 days for mountain biking.

If I rent, it's going to cost me $375 plus taxes ($100+$25insurance on bike/day).

Craiglist sells some nice bikes for around $1200. I'm better off buying a used bike, don't you think?

kungpow
06-03-2009, 07:26 AM
http://buysell.nsmb.com/showproduct....ct/22832/cat/5
04 kona stinky Contact Seller $400

Thinking about getting this bike for whistler. The seller said it can easily do all the runs at whistler and it's the same bike as the whistler ones except it's just older and in better condition.

What do you think? Thanks man.

bcedhk
06-03-2009, 07:31 AM
Nothing, it's just that I'll be up there for 3 days for mountain biking.

If I rent, it's going to cost me $375 plus taxes ($100+$25insurance on bike/day).

Craiglist sells some nice bikes for around $1200. I'm better off buying a used bike, don't you think?

I dont get your thinking.. after all tax and rent, is costing you 500 bucks... but u say you can get a "nice" bike for 1200$.. so your spending an extra $700 on a bike.. You already HAVE a bike (from what i saw in your 3 threads you did)... so what is the point of having 2 bikes?

-_- i can think of a lot of things to buy with the $700 bucks.. Unless you plan on doing this downhill thing as a annual/fequent thing, i see no point buying a downhill bike, even if it is used. But,, is your money, do whatever you want with it

Ducdesmo
06-03-2009, 01:36 PM
^ I am in sync with his train of thought.

You buy a used $1200 bike..use it for a year or two and still probably be able to sell it for $1000 if he keeps it in good condition. Whereas if you rent, you'd blow $375 in 3 days..

Which one would you choose?

TRDood
06-03-2009, 05:14 PM
if you go downhill @ whistler, you are looking at at least $1000 bikes.

i went to whistler in the long weekend for skiing and saw all those DH ppl having a lot of fun with their "diaherria" butt and backs.

came home and did a little research, it's a expensive and dangerous sport. it's even more expensive than skiing/golfing!

if you can't afford it, then just find another hobby. your sillycycle wouldn't handle the first jump and you will get weird stares up there. LOL

i rented a specialized hardrock (base) there for the light scenic trails. loved that bike and still want to find a decent used hardrock.. i saw a 05 comp disc for $300, but not really digging the red flames..

anyone selling hardrocks? =D

cdizzle_996
06-03-2009, 06:48 PM
I wouldn't say its more expensive than golf. I mean the innitial fee for the bike and gear can be 1000-10000, but you can still ride trails for free opposed to going to Whistler, or Sunpeaks...Golf clubs can be just as expensive, and a decent round of golf is $100+ each time. I've owned 3 Norco's 2 team DH's and a Shore. They all held there value, even after riding them a year each. I never bought brand new, but I never lost money when it came time to re-sell. Your WAY better off finding yourself a bike and selling it at the end of the year. IMO of course

kungpow
06-03-2009, 07:09 PM
I wouldn't say its more expensive than golf. I mean the innitial fee for the bike and gear can be 1000-10000, but you can still ride trails for free opposed to going to Whistler, or Sunpeaks...Golf clubs can be just as expensive, and a decent round of golf is $100+ each time. I've owned 3 Norco's 2 team DH's and a Shore. They all held there value, even after riding them a year each. I never bought brand new, but I never lost money when it came time to re-sell. Your WAY better off finding yourself a bike and selling it at the end of the year. IMO of course

cdizzle, can you give me a heads up on this bike? Can this one do the bike park at whistler easily? I'm planning to buy it. Thanks.

Thisis the bike:
http://buysell.nsmb.com/showproduct....ct/22832/cat/5
04 kona stinky $400

cdizzle_996
06-03-2009, 07:19 PM
Link doesn't work dude. Kona's have there ups and downs. If its in decent condition and hasnt been beat it'll do the job. Whistler used to rent Konda stinky's out. Find a Norco :D

BrendanS
06-03-2009, 07:30 PM
Post a picture, for a beginner a kona stinky is plenty. It's unfair to see Kona's have their ups and downs as i think i every bike does. Just some more ups than others. But I think in general a kona stinky for $400 is a good deal, it probably won't be the nicest bike but it is definitely better than a supercycle

kungpow
06-03-2009, 07:40 PM
Link doesn't work dude. Kona's have there ups and downs. If its in decent condition and hasnt been beat it'll do the job. Whistler used to rent Konda stinky's out. Find a Norco :D

Sorry about the link.

Here it is again:
http://buysell.nsmb.com/showproduct.php/product/22832/cat/5
http://buysell.nsmb.com/data/5/large/Picture_053.jpg
http://buysell.nsmb.com/data/5/large/Picture_052.jpg
http://buysell.nsmb.com/data/5/large/3nf3k23o6ZZZZZZZZZ955fb6443b265c91a11.jpg

The guy said I can get sherman flicks with it for $500. What are sherman flicks?

BrendanS
06-03-2009, 07:43 PM
Sherman flicks is the fork in the last picture I believe. The reason it's $400 is because it doesn't come with a fork. I'd just pay the extra $100 and get it like that. It looks like a decent bike

orange7
06-03-2009, 08:42 PM
cdizzle, can you give me a heads up on this bike? Can this one do the bike park at whistler easily? I'm planning to buy it. Thanks.

Thisis the bike:
http://buysell.nsmb.com/showproduct....ct/22832/cat/5
04 kona stinky $400

ahh.. 04 kona stinky! that's one of my favorite bikes even though i've never owned one

TRDood
06-03-2009, 10:38 PM
that bike looks like it has only 24"

Meowjin
06-03-2009, 10:53 PM
http://bb.nsmb.com

register and ask users there. They know more about bikes than anything.

SkinnyPupp
06-03-2009, 10:54 PM
Nothing, it's just that I'll be up there for 3 days for mountain biking.

If I rent, it's going to cost me $375 plus taxes ($100+$25insurance on bike/day).

Craiglist sells some nice bikes for around $1200. I'm better off buying a used bike, don't you think?
Actually that makes no sense at all, unless you're planning on doing a lot more DH riding. DH bikes are useless otherwise.

AAnthony
06-04-2009, 08:04 PM
^thats why you ride your dh bike around the block once in a while, you will get stronger legs and wont bitch about the weight after about the first month

BrendanS
06-04-2009, 08:06 PM
Actually that makes no sense at all, unless you're planning on doing a lot more DH riding. DH bikes are useless otherwise.
Not really, obviously you've never heard of pro-pedal in fox shocks
^thats why you ride your dh bike around the block once in a while, you will get stronger legs and wont bitch about the weight after about the first month
or like I said buy a Fox DHX3.0/4.0/5.0 or an air shock and you'll have pro-pedal...lazy way out haha
that bike looks like it has only 24"
the rear might be a 24 but it looks like a 26 in the front

cdizzle_996
06-04-2009, 08:13 PM
I rocked 24" rear and 26" front.

Volvo-brickster
06-04-2009, 09:45 PM
Actually that makes no sense at all, unless you're planning on doing a lot more DH riding. DH bikes are useless otherwise.

+1

a 9 speed 45+ pound bike makes for a lousy cross country / all mountain bike

im so lazy i only ride where there is a motorized shuttle system:haha:

AAnthony
06-04-2009, 09:49 PM
or like I said buy a Fox DHX3.0/4.0/5.0 or an air shock and you'll have pro-pedal...lazy way out haha

Chiiillll bro ive got the DHX 5.0, not to mention 888 rc's this thing can be tuned from suuper squishy to no squish at all......NorcoShore 1

BrendanS
06-04-2009, 09:56 PM
Chiiillll bro ive got the DHX 5.0, not to mention 888 rc's this thing can be tuned from suuper squishy to no squish at all......NorcoShore 1
:thumbsup:I'm chill haha

AAnthony
06-15-2009, 02:20 PM
sooooo kungpoo, you buy a bike yet???

325ist
06-15-2009, 02:41 PM
http://www.sportchek.ca/sportchek/do/style?menuId=61&styleId=47511

Is that Iron Horse bike good enough for whistler?

That is a cross country bike. You need a free ride or down hill bike. for a full suspension it probably should have costed between $1500 and $2500 brand new for you to even have a chance surviving. Right now you can buy 01-04Kona Sinkys for $350-750. Most of them would be ok for what you are wanting to do but if this is your first time it would be smart to rent a fully serviced down hill bike from a shop because then you will have the forgivness of more suspension travel in case you ddont land somthing right

Volvo-brickster
06-15-2009, 06:28 PM
im skeptical on kona's

ive seen many riders do the walk of shame down the mountain with a snapped headtube

johny
06-15-2009, 08:43 PM
I rode this weekend for the first time up there (on a rental). I still can't walk my legs are so sore.. hadn't riden in a years. and when I did I didn't stand so much.

I need to get my legs stronger and go again, it was fun.

TRDood
06-15-2009, 09:27 PM
is my bike good enough for DH?
i don't expect to make it through big air jumps and such... just maybe just easy trails.

05 Specialized Hardrock Comp Disc.

http://i624.photobucket.com/albums/tt328/shortkid_555/DSC04639.jpg

pawdregry4g
06-16-2009, 11:21 AM
^will you make it down the hill? yes
will you enjoy it?no