[Harvey Specter]

Fuck the city of Vancouver.


VANCOUVER — The City of Vancouver plans to slash the number of new off-street parking spaces in the downtown core in a bid to get commuters and residents out of their cars and cycling, walking or taking transit.

But the Urban Development Institute claims the move, which would see “zero growth” in commuter parking spaces and significantly reduce the number of residential spots, will deter both businesses and residents from relocating here.

“It’s a case of the pendulum swinging too far the other way,” said UDI executive director Maureen Enser. “There are those businesses that want to relocate here who are going to want parking so how are we going to accommodate them? We are a little bit concerned about it.”

The proposal, which will go to city council on Thursday, suggests council limit the number of parking spaces in new downtown commercial developments in order to maintain a cap of 34,000 spaces.

Under the current rules, developers are required to provide one space per 2.5 to 3.5 employees.

The new standard would require developers to build a minimum of one space per 4.5 to five employees. The maximum they could build would be one space for every 3.5 to four employees.

The number of parking spaces would vary with the density of the building.

Residential developers, meanwhile, are allowed to provide a maximum of one space per unit and only have to offer a minimum of .42 space per unit.

The aim, according to the report, is to encourage less vehicle use in the downtown core and encourage car co-ops and car sharing.

“We don’t want more cars on the road,” said Carli Edwards, the city’s parking manager engineer. “What we’re seeing now is more mixed-use and transit development. As you add more people to the downtown, fewer people could drive.”

Edwards said the city has a history of incrementally lowering the number of parking spaces. The latest move is driven by a predicted rise in commercial growth until 2031.

But as old surface parking lots or parkades are displaced by new commercial buildings, it’s estimated 5,770 parking spaces will be lost by then. And with fewer new spaces being provided, the report said the standards “are set at levels that are designed to ensure that there remains zero growth in employee [commuter] parking spaces.”

The proposal also includes reducing parking spaces in central Broadway and Mount Pleasant. Disability parking spaces would not be reduced, as the number of disabled drivers has risen 20 per cent since 2001, the report said.

Enser argued the proposal will discourage people from coming to live and work in downtown Vancouver because of a possible shortage of sites.

She said the Urban Development Institute supports changing the minimum number of parking spaces required for developers, but the city shouldn’t restrict the number of spaces because some companies may require extra parking.

It costs developers an average of about $40,000 to build a parking space, she said.

“If your business requires a certain amount of parking and you can’t get it in Vancouver, where are you going to go? Metrotown,” she said. “We should see what the implications of the new standards are going to be.”

Enser said the recession will change the economic climate and force businesses to do things differently.

Until the city figures out what kind of businesses will be popping up, she said, it should remain flexible.

“No one knows what the economy is going to look like,” she said. “What you need is common sense. They’re kind of dictating what businesses will and will not do with the space.”

The commercial sector isn’t the only one that will be hit hard, she said, noting that people may refuse to buy into residential buildings in downtown Vancouver because there isn’t enough parking.

Julian Jones, vice-president of business development for Impark, a Vancouver-based parking lot operator, said the residential regulations may have unintended consequences.

“Because this is a unique downtown phenomenon, if you have two vehicles, you may move to the suburbs and in fact use your car more,” he said. “Restricting spaces downtown may have a negative impact on people’s ability to minimize the use of their vehicle.”

Jones said the proposed regulations would mean fewer spots available, and a higher rate for parking. But the rules may not be good for parking lot operators either. “If you've got a small number of spaces producing more money for each space, it’s not necessarily producing more money than a large number of spaces at a lesser rate,” he said.

Edwards said there will always be a minimum number of parking spaces in the city. She noted fewer people living downtown own cars and said the new Canada Line, a third SeaBus and cycling lanes will help people get around.

If commercial growth continued unchecked under the current parking standards, the report warned, the city would see an increase in overall parking supply. It suggests the city’s current cap on commuter parking spaces has already contributed to fewer vehicle trips and increased use of transit, bike and walking paths.

While overall trips have increased by 23 per cent over the past 10 years, the report said, vehicle trips to the city’s downtown have dropped by seven per cent.

Charles Gauthier, executive director of the Downtown Vancouver Business Improvement Association, said he doesn’t expect the new parking standards to have a huge impact on business. He noted the cost of building parking is expensive, which often hinders developers from building.

“The studies I’ve seen over the last couple of years show there’s a lot of inventory available,” he said.

Vancouver Mayor Gregor Robertson said the city is constantly monitoring parking spaces to ensure there’s a balance in the city and called for more investment in transit. “City staff are totally conscious of what’s at stake here,” he said.


ksinoski@vancouversun.com

With files from David Karp

© Copyright (c) The Vancouver Sun

[03aspec]

ouch, i guess it sucks to work in van. i blame that hippy gregor robertson.

[orange7]

need more buses

[impactX]

So who voted for Robertson on RS?

[Marco911]

Save Parking for the Rich!

[m4k4v4li]

parking is already a bitch
thanks

[ctsport]

Good news to me, there are too many cars downtown already anyways.

Less cars, more buses, more Skytrain, more bike lanes, and more sidewalks please. :D

[Nightwalker]

Good news to me, there are too many cars downtown already anyways.

Less cars, more buses, more Skytrain, more bike tracks, and more sidewalks please. :D

That's actually what I was thinking when I read the article.

[Marco911]

Actually, the demand for parking spaces is relatively inelastic. Judging from major cities like Boston, London, Chicago, New York one can spend more on parking then a feeble Vancouverite's mind can begin to comprehend. In London, it's pretty typical to see a flat rate of USD$80 to park for an evening. That's in a city with a GREAT transit system. I speculate that ppl would just be driving around vancouver looking for parking.

[thumper]

meh. next thing u know robertson will turn vancouver parking lots into agricultural farmland as well to join his backyard garden at city hall :rolleyes:

[ctsport]

meh. next thing u know robertson will turn vancouver parking lots into agricultural farmland as well to join his backyard garden at city hall :rolleyes:

Since you love your car so much you should move to Langley (or Surrey, or whatever). There, you can spend your whole day commuting in your car, everyday, for the rest of your life. :D

[hotjoint]

good thing I very rarely ever have to go downtown, I try to avoid it as much as possible

[drunkrussian]

doesn't impact me; i already end up paying for parking downtown when i have to drive in, cause it's so packed as shit :-(

[Ronin]

Good news to me, there are too many cars downtown already anyways.

Less cars, more buses, more Skytrain, more bike lanes, and more sidewalks please. :D

The problem is that buses, Skytrain, biking and such in Vancouver ARE NOT CONVENIENT. Ever taken public transportation in any other country? You aren't waiting half an hour if you miss a bus.

Until they improve public transportation in this city, I'll stick to burning fuel and warming the planet.

[wouwou]

Good news to me, there are too many cars downtown already anyways.

Less cars, more buses, more Skytrain, more bike lanes, and more sidewalks please. :D

except it works Less parking spots, higher fees, same bus, same skytrain, more bike lanes, and crappier sidewalks.

Cutting parking spots will not force the people to abandon their cars, instead it will drive the customers away.

People love freedom and choice. Provide better transportation is the ONLY way people will drop their cars.

[PavelGTR]

Fuck bike lanes

[Mugen EvOlutioN]

Fuck bike lanes

werd


gayest fucking people who uses it

[!Yaminashi]

I'm sorry, did they say transit development?
Wouldnt that mean making it better as well? Sorry, but they've been saying that for a while now

[03aspec]

Since you love your car so much you should move to Langley (or Surrey, or whatever). There, you can spend your whole day commuting in your car, everyday, for the rest of your life. :D

thats the plan stan.

[Great68]

Unless you live within walking distance of skytrain, using transit from any of Vancouver's suburbs SUCKS.

Once upon a time I would commute from #3 & Williams Richmond to Downtown by bus. I would leave the house at 6:30am, to get to work before 8:00am, work to 6pm, and be home by 8. I was even lucky because I could catch the B-Lines as they headed up 3 road from the service yard on steveston hwy. On the way home, I'd always have to transfer onto the 403, which meant waiting up to 1/2 an hour at richmond centre.

3+ hours of commuting on a pretty direct bus route SUCKS. Even on a heavy traffic day, it was at least an hour and a half faster for the day by car.

The stupid city should only push change if they can accomodate that change...

[GreenBeans]

fuckin bullshit

[maxx]

fascists

[Mr.HappySilp]

Unless you live within walking distance of skytrain, using transit from any of Vancouver's suburbs SUCKS.

Once upon a time I would commute from #3 & Williams Richmond to Downtown by bus. I would leave the house at 6:30am, to get to work before 8:00am, work to 6pm, and be home by 8. I was even lucky because I could catch the B-Lines as they headed up 3 road from the service yard on steveston hwy. On the way home, I'd always have to transfer onto the 403, which meant waiting up to 1/2 an hour at richmond centre.

3+ hours of commuting on a pretty direct bus route SUCKS. Even on a heavy traffic day, it was at least an hour and a half faster for the day by car.

The stupid city should only push change if they can accomodate that change...

The reason why we don't have enough buses is the number of ppl that takes it. Unless it is in the morning or when ppl get off work u won't see a full bus. U most likely will see like 5 to 10ppl or even less on a bus which means operating it would be a loss. Becasue Vancouver well is pretty big compare to other cities(HK).

I think the tranist system here in vanouver is out of date anyways. Why use different zones? Have each bus at a flast rate like HK does and there are no return flares. Use smaller buses for non rush hour time to save up cost and operate at a more fequent rate.

[q0192837465]

The reason why we don't have enough buses is the number of ppl that takes it. Unless it is in the morning or when ppl get off work u won't see a full bus. U most likely will see like 5 to 10ppl or even less on a bus which means operating it would be a loss. Becasue Vancouver well is pretty big compare to other cities(HK).

I think the tranist system here in vanouver is out of date anyways. Why use different zones? Have each bus at a flast rate like HK does and there are no return flares. Use smaller buses for non rush hour time to save up cost and operate at a more fequent rate.

The biggest problem, the way I see it, is that the transit system is run by the government. Without competition, nothing is going to improve. If they screw up, cool, let's ask for more money. In turn, the government squeeze us for more money. It's a vicious cycle. We need better people to run the transit system, not some retired politician who only knows how to sit there & bullshit all day. Sadly, it's not gonna happen.

[pandalove]

canadian politician are fucking retarded
less parking less people shopping then that fucks up ppl's buisness
if you want ppl to bus more make more buses come often and make them fucking nicer so i dun feel like a hobo bussing ....

[Gt-R R34]

We'll be getting HKG style parking fees soon!

20 bucks 2hrs, full day 45!

awesome!

[you]

ohh wtf this is such a brainless fucking move im seriously so sick of retards running this city

[carisear]

Since you love your car so much you should move to Langley (or Surrey, or whatever). There, you can spend your whole day commuting in your car, everyday, for the rest of your life. :D

you may think that's a joke, but that is EXACTLY what people do.

it's because of idiotic motions like these, that cause MORE greenhouse gasses, MORE driver stress, and a LOWER quality of life.

and then because of these same rules and regulations, you skew your stats. like the latest one. 'more people are walking and taking transit downtown as opposed to 10 years ago'. NO SHIT SHERLOCK.

[johny]

who the hell still lives / works in vancouver?.. I avoid it like the plauge. so should everyone else.

soon vancouver will be empty and everything will be in langley / chilliwack

[!LittleDragon]

They didn't take into account that for many people, a car is a status symbol. This is gonna cause a great divide between rich and poor. I was in NYC recently and parking costs an arm and a leg but you know what? There's still traffic jams and parking spots are hard to come by. I know that NYC's a safe city but it sure didn't feel safe when I took the subway. The rich will continue to drive, the poor will continue take transit. Something like this will force the middle class to take transit making them feel poor. Robertson won't be re-elected.

[jeff_alexander]

Brothers, sing along to the song of our forefathers and unite against such tyranny that threatens the very fabric that bounds our society together! United we become strong, with determination and persistence, we will prevail in the face of darkness that has plague and infiltrated our homes!

God save our gracious Queen,
Long live our noble Queen,
God save the Queen:
Send her victorious,
Happy and glorious,
Long to reign over us:
God save the Queen.

O Lord, our God, arise,
Scatter her enemies,
And make them fall.
Confound their politics,
Frustrate their knavish tricks,
On Thee our hopes we fix,
God save us all.

Thy choicest gifts in store,
On her be pleased to pour;
Long may she reign:
May she defend our laws,
And ever give us cause
To sing with heart and voice
God save the Queen.

[heleu]

We just don't have the density to support a better transit system. It's never going to be the same as HK.

[Marco911]

If they want to reduce the amt of cars in the downtown core, they should implement a congestion charge like in London and Singapore. That way even people who live downtown who use their car will have to pay. $8-$15/day is a reasonable charge. That way driving downtown can be saved for the rich!

[wouwou]

If they want to reduce the amt of cars in the downtown core, they should implement a congestion charge like in London and Singapore. That way even people who live downtown who use their car will have to pay. $8-$15/day is a reasonable charge. That way driving downtown can be saved for the rich!

dude you are just trying to price out the "personal companions" at Yaletown :haha:

[madddskillz]

People will just end up driving around more looking for parking spots.

[slammer111]

People will just end up driving around more looking for parking spots.QFT.

I live near a major bus line that can get me to DT in probably 20 minutes. Yet I still drive in the evenings? Why? Because personally I like driving over taking the bus. It's a personal choice. I also don't mind looking for parking for 20 minutes before hitting up the restaurant, and possibly paying some parking meter. Sure it's inconvenient, but has the threat of this ever caused me to take the bus? Nope.

But I bet this makes the hippies that run our city feel good. :rolleyes: It's like criminalizing speeders. Is it going to make me drive slower on the highways? Nope. It just means I'm watching for cops and using my radar detector instead of focusing 100% on traffic. The law of unintended consequences..

This reminds me of (hippie) ppl in highschool (10+ years ago) who hated on me because my daddy bought me a beater so I could drive to class. Last time I checked, I'm still driving and they're still taking the bus. Good for them. :thumbsup:

I agree with Marco that having a Congestion zone London-style would probably be a much more effective deterrent. A lack of parking won't get me out of a car, but I admit that a $10 surcharge sure will.

[slammer111]

^ 10char

[Mr.HappySilp]

QFT.

I live near a major bus line that can get me to DT in probably 20 minutes. Yet I still drive in the evenings? Why? Because personally I like driving over taking the bus. It's a personal choice. I also don't mind looking for parking for 20 minutes before hitting up the restaurant, and possibly paying some parking meter. Sure it's inconvenient, but has the threat of this ever caused me to take the bus? Nope.

But I bet this makes the hippies that run our city feel good. :rolleyes: It's like criminalizing speeders. Is it going to make me drive slower on the highways? Nope. It just means I'm watching for cops and using my radar detector instead of focusing 100% on traffic. The law of untended consequences..

This reminds me of (hippie) ppl in highschool (10+ years ago) who hated on me because my daddy bought me a beater so I could drive to class. Last time I checked, I'm still driving and they're still taking the bus. Good for them. :thumbsup:

I agree with Marco that having a Congestion zone London-style would probably be a much more effective deterrent. A lack of parking won't get me out of a car, but I admit that a $10 surcharge sure will.

Is also more conivent to get around. Say u decide to go to a moive or somewhere else after dinner that the bus does not take you. Not to mention if u are on a date or goingout with ur gf/family do u want to make them take the bus too or let ur date know u are bussing? I mean if you drive ur date/gf around u might get some extra action VS taking the bus won't get u any :haha:.

Not to mention stading in the bus stop wating for the bus isn't all the cool.

[1exotic]

Are you kidding me? what a bunch of shit.

Great... now there will be more global warming hippies riding their bikes in the middle of the roads, and i will run them over.

[BNR32_Coupe]

wtf driving cars doesnt warm up the planet, holy shit. be more concerned with the depletion of our fossil fuels rather than some BS hippies made up

[dark0821]

wow.. and i am hesitant to drive to downtown as it is..

[Tapioca]

Complaint #1: We should privatize the system because we'll get better service, more efficiencies, etc.
Fact: If the system were privatized, there would be no incentive to run routes that don't turn a profit, meaning only the most-used routes would be serviced. This means no service to the burbs, to more remote areas, etc. Think service is bad now with a bus every half-hour? Try no service.

Complaint #2: I would use transit if the buses were cleaner, safer, etc.
Fact: We have transit police that are armed. We have less users which in theory should reduce the chances of anything happening. But the reality is that we, collectively, don't respect public institutions here. Why do people leave their trash on the trains when there are recyling bins and garbage cans everywhere? Why do people vandalize the system? I will use HK's system as a reference because everyone gets a hard-on from their system. My uncle put it this way - it's kept clean because someone will call someone out if they litter on the MTR.

Complaint #3: I would use transit if service was better, more frequent, etc.
Fact:
- Density - we don't have it. City councils have tried to push people to live in higher-density homes (I'm a convert), but the North American dream of owning a single-family home with a 5000 sq ft back yard still exists for a large majority of us.
- Taxes - our taxes are too low to support a system that runs buses every 5 minutes and stops in each subdivision in the Lower Mainland.
- Chicken and egg effect - We need ridership to increase revenues and to create demand. But, as long as people want it all and want to pay nothing for it, transit will not improve.

[you]

^^

complaint: van parking sucks ass
fact: ur an idiot. there will be a lot more cons compared to pros if this shit were to take effect

[TheKingdom2000]

So who voted for Robertson on RS?

FML. I did, because I thought he would make Vancouver into something special...

I kind of regret it now...

[TheKingdom2000]

wtf driving cars doesnt warm up the planet, holy shit. be more concerned with the depletion of our fossil fuels rather than some BS hippies made up

lol what?
driving leads to co2 accumulation in the atmosphere. which increases the mean temperature of the earth. however, one can argue the negative feedback loop with cloud cover, since an increase in mean earth temp increases cloud cover which deflects the energy from the sun from hitting our planet.

CO2 is the significant factor to why the earth was 10-20 degrees cooler during the mesozoic. and because of alot of mechanism, cloud cover was not enough to cool the planet

and what are we supposed to do to help stop the depletion of fossil fuels? we have to stop using them.. lol.. ie. stop driving?

i agree i do not like robertson, but you need to get your facts strait.

[goo3]

They've been cutting back parking for years. This is nothing new.

[death_blossom]

I would gladly take the skytrain to downtown, IF IT RAN 24 HRS. what the hell is up w/ removing spots. ridiculous.

[SlowRider]

vancouver's governement is so dumb..

IF IT DIDNT RAIN i wouldnt be driving as much ....hence..no need to drive and park,,,

[Hot Karl]

vancouver's governement is so dumb..

IF IT DIDNT RAIN i wouldnt be driving as much ....hence..no need to drive and park,,,

since vancouver's government is so dumb...

what type of retarded do you have to be to blame the government for the weather?

[Sid Vicious]

I would gladly take the skytrain to downtown, IF IT RAN 24 HRS. what the hell is up w/ removing spots. ridiculous.

if the skytrain ran 24 hours, bums would just sleep on the skytrain turning it into a shithole

[Tapioca]

I would gladly take the skytrain to downtown, IF IT RAN 24 HRS. what the hell is up w/ removing spots. ridiculous.

The mighty Hong Kong MTR does not run 24 hours, nor do the systems in London or Paris. Skytrain already runs until 1 AM most nights. If you're downtown beyond that time, take a cab home after a night at the bar.

[skholla]

the new york metro system in the only one in the world to run 24/7.

vancouver needs a proper transit system or a proper highway system with an abundance of parking. the latter being the ugliest and most polluting option.

i live downtown and love the ability to walk everywhere and not have the need to drive unless i am going out of the city or buying a large amount of groceries. i also work in vancouver and could take the public transit to work but i choose not too. right now unless you live or work near a major bus route or skytrain route, taking transit in a pain in the ass. there are too many bus transfers, the buses do not come frequent enough, there needs to be 4 times as many skytrain stations and the cost keeps going up.

its unfair to compare vancouver to a city like new york because of population/funding and other reason but even with their new price hike it is still cheaper than vancouver transit. also this zone shit needs to go, that right there is a huge deterrent for a lot of people i know that live in suburbs. i remember talking the bus to school when it was only $0.50, now its 5x that and to me the service has not changed/improved enough to make it work my $2.50+.

there are train tracks that are rusting away around the lower mainland and others that are only use for cargo, there needs to be cheap intercity transport setup on those tracks too. they are already there, make more west coast express like services going into every city. i have declined jobs far out in surrey because the drive was too far and if i had to take public transit it would be a skytrain ride plus 3 buses on the other end, i dont want to loose 3 hours of my life commuting everyday, if so i would be better off living in california sitting in traffic.

[Tapioca]

its unfair to compare vancouver to a city like new york because of population/funding and other reason but even with their new price hike it is still cheaper than vancouver transit. also this zone shit needs to go, that right there is a huge deterrent for a lot of people i know that live in suburbs. i remember talking the bus to school when it was only $0.50, now its 5x that and to me the service has not changed/improved enough to make it work my $2.50+.


Inflation, rising petro costs, and rising wages are to blame. Remember, you make more money now too (at least, so I hope.) Other systems have a more precise method of calculating your fares based on how far you travel. New York is an old city and their metro was built years ago when labour costs were lower. Our system is relatively new and whenever we want to build an extension, it costs us an arm and a leg.

there are train tracks that are rusting away around the lower mainland and others that are only use for cargo, there needs to be cheap intercity transport setup on those tracks too. they are already there, make more west coast express like services going into every city. i have declined jobs far out in surrey because the drive was too far and if i had to take public transit it would be a skytrain ride plus 3 buses on the other end, i dont want to loose 3 hours of my life commuting everyday, if so i would be better off living in california sitting in traffic.

Translink would have to negotiate for the right to use those tracks with CN, CPR, etc. I'm sure it's been explored and I'm sure it would be a total nightmare to pursue - sharing agreements are not easy to negotiate. Blame the bureaucrats for that one (though I'm one myself and I understand how hard it is to get different organizations to work together.)

[rsx]

lol what?
driving leads to co2 accumulation in the atmosphere. which increases the mean temperature of the earth. however, one can argue the negative feedback loop with cloud cover, since an increase in mean earth temp increases cloud cover which deflects the energy from the sun from hitting our planet.

CO2 is the significant factor to why the earth was 10-20 degrees cooler during the mesozoic. and because of alot of mechanism, cloud cover was not enough to cool the planet

and what are we supposed to do to help stop the depletion of fossil fuels? we have to stop using them.. lol.. ie. stop driving?

i agree i do not like robertson, but you need to get your facts strait.

BNR32 doesn't believe in Global Warming..just fyi.

[Durrann1984]

feels like my whole pay cheque is going towards this city

i cant save shit lol

[Great68]

and rising wages are to blame. Remember, you make more money now too

I don't think wages increased even close to the same ratio as transit fares.

It was only a few years ago that a single zone was $2.00, now it's $2.50.

I don't know anyone that got a 25% raise in their wages over the last few years.

[hotjoint]

Man taking the bus used to be $.75 for 1 zone its $2.50 now....

[!LittleDragon]

Man taking the bus used to be $.75 for 1 zone its $2.50 now....

I wish my salary increased relative to that... lol

[Chuck Norris]

Actually, the demand for parking spaces is relatively inelastic. Judging from major cities like Boston, London, Chicago, New York one can spend more on parking then a feeble Vancouverite's mind can begin to comprehend. In London, it's pretty typical to see a flat rate of USD$80 to park for an evening. That's in a city with a GREAT transit system. I speculate that ppl would just be driving around vancouver looking for parking.

Too bad Vancouver is nowhere even close to either of these cities when it comes to generating wealth.

Vancouver may be a nice place to look at, but the people here are dirt poor compared to those in the places you mentioned.