[MG1]

What the hell happened to quality of workmanship these days?

I bought a new home and the workmanship is horrible. I was lied to by the listing agent who said to me the builder was European. The builder was far from European.

Anyway, after I buy the house, I buy appliances and get them installed and they do a shitty job. My wife has been telling me she smells gas in the kitchen. I don't smell it, but I finally decide to phone Terasen Gas and they come out ASAP (I'm impressed by them, btw). The inspector says, your house needs to be red tagged. WTF? He also points out that the installer put the shut off valve in the wrong place - after the regulator - and the leak is pretty significant. BTW, I wasn't at the house when this joker installed the gas stove. Also, it wasn't cheap. over $700 to install the stove and the dish washer. I wasn't bargain hunting for an installer. This was a legit licensed outfit recommended by the appliance dealer. I convince the Teresen technician to flag the house with a pink tag instead, meaning they don't shut gas to the whole house and evict you.

At my last house, I got the hot water tank repaired (faulty electronics). That guy had to come out two more times because he installed the thing incorrectly, causing other parts to fail. What ever happened to pride in workmanship? These people are always in a hurry to finish the job. Coming out two or three times to fix a screw up can't be cost effective.

Now I have a freaking water leak in the walls of the new house. It's covered under new home warranty, but WTF?

Rant over............

[ilvtofu]

Get chinese ppl to do your work!

[sexyaccord]

yeah workmanship on newly built homes are sloppy these days. You can easily tell near the door frames, window frames, corners, etc.

Older homes built in the ,80's 90's tends to be much better in terms of built quality and finishes.

[ziggyx]

you need mike holmes

http://www.hotmoviesale.com/dvds/23452/1/Holmes-on-Homes-Season-1.jpg

[JSALES]

yeah, i remembered we hired these guys to install a bathroom in my basement and they left a hole in the ground where the pipes are, they said they'd be back to cover it up. it never happened so we ended up having to get our own cement to fill it up

[quasi]

Ya, I've had some issues with my house as well. It all comes down to the builder, my friends bought a house 3 blocks away from me from a very reputable builder and any issues they've had have been taken care ASAP at no cost. My builder is near impossible to get a hold of and drags there heels on every issue.

A good example would be bad laminate which is more of a product defect then anything. My friends have it bubbling, builder makes floor guy go back they rip it all out and replace it, replace all baseboards and repaint where necessary.

I have same issue at my place, builder tells me to deal with installer directly. Installer drags heels and says we wrecked the floor. This goes back and forth for months finally builder agrees to get it done and comes by, drops off new flooring but tells me to call installer to arrange a time to remove old and install new. Call them and they say ya no problem, $65 an hour.....So basically in the first year of moving in I have defective floor, now I have defective floor replacement but I have to pay to have it installed? I know this is a product defect and out of their hands to a degree but it's all about the way it's looked after.

I'm probably going to the sue the builder to get the ball rolling I'm kind of done going back and forth with the builder and the floor installer.


My family owns a framing/drywall company and although we only do commercial projects we warranty everything for a year and would fix all defects no problem. The quality of work being put out by some contractors is dismal.

[MG1]

you need mike holmes

http://www.hotmoviesale.com/dvds/23452/1/Holmes-on-Homes-Season-1.jpg

If Mike Holmes came to BC, he would have enough episodes to last a millennia....

So many sloppy builders here. Cutting corners, hiring fly-by-night sub contractors, etc. Don't get me started on Chinese, Vietnamese, or EI builders.......... When I was house hunting (over a year and a half of searching), I saw some really weird shit. I always ask the listing agents and sure enough................

I'm non Cuacasian and I don't want to sound remotely racist, but there's nothing like a house built by a reputable European builder. I ran out of options and time, and settled for the house I live in now. I thought, "What the hell - this isn't my retirement house. I'll most likely move one more time." Certainly within ten years, so warranty will cover any problems. I can live with gaps, lousy drywall job, radiant flooring that doesn't seem to work well in places, etc. I haven't been in the house for more than six months and the more I look around, the more I discover the poor quality in workmanship. I haven't gone through a winter in the house yet, but I have a feeling it's only gonna get worse.

As for the property, the location, and the neighbourhood, it is choice - no complaints whatsoever. Good, quiet Italian neighbourhood in Burnaby. Too bad the builder is a loser. BTW, I'm complaining via the right channels. No pie plates in my neighbourhood. And, no, I'm not asking for RS Beatdown Crew to assemble, LOL.

[MG1]

My family owns a framing/drywall company and although we only do commercial projects we warranty everything for a year and would fix all defects no problem. The quality of work being put out by some contractors is dismal.

Good to hear.

That's what we need. More pride in workmanship. When I come across good work, I let the people know, because it's a good feeling for both parties.

[ilvtofu]

Lol completely off topic i remember when i was in elementary school, there was a billboard for mike holmes in the parking lot, and we'd throw rocks at him, this was off 2nd & main across emily carr :)

[ziggyx]

I didn't realize it earlier but what is the deal with European builders? Are they generalized as people who usually have good workmanship?

But yea i have seen several new houses and the craftsmanship going into a lot of those new houses suck ass. I can see that windows have huge gaps or something. I think to myself that I dont know anything when it comes to building a house but I sure as hell know when something isn't done properly. I also think that I could probably do better myself.

[VR6GTI]

I had the same issue with my first place i bought. Builders were impossible to get a hold of. They never phoned you back. I thought hardwood floors were going to look nice and be easy to keep clean in an apartment. They started to lift 3 months after i was in. I had noticed so many things wrong with it that i just sold the place. All these new condo's/apartment buildings have hardwood or laminate flooring. Worst thing ever. Knowing i didnt want togo through the same headache so i looked into builders and looked at apartments previously built by them, before buying from them.

[silk]

water leak ? was it a grow up home previously ?

When you do get a certified tech to come to your house to do the work, make sure they are covered by the insurance. You don't know what else they will fucking up and YOU are the one end up paying big buck !

Always have them to quote you on paper (black and white) and come back when there is faulty installation. So you dont pay the extra for them to inspect and resolve your issue.

You can go take a look BC authority website:
They have list of contractors you need in your area (plumber, hvac,electrician..etc.)..and they are usually certified and covered by insurance.

added website : http://www.safetyauthority.ca/

[MG1]

I had the same issue with my first place i bought. Builders were impossible to get a hold of. They never phoned you back. I thought hardwood floors were going to look nice and be easy to keep clean in an apartment. They started to lift 3 months after i was in. I had noticed so many things wrong with it that i just sold the place. All these new condo's/apartment buildings have hardwood or laminate flooring. Worst thing ever. Knowing i didnt want togo through the same headache so i looked into builders and looked at apartments previously built by them, before buying from them.

Wife kept mentioning hardwood floors are this and that, etc. I told her next house we get will come with hardwood flooring. I also thought radiant heating would be awesome. I was sick of forced air furnace. Changing filters and having to clean ducts and registers. Now that I'm in a house that has hardwood flooring (not laminate or engineered) and radiant heat, I think I made a big mistake. I thought going without forced air would reduce dust. It's the complete opposite. With forced air, you get some kind of filtration. With radiant, there's no filtration of any kind. Didn't thnk about that one - chalk that up to stupidity on my part.

Not only that, no chance of air conditioning or heat exchangers with radiant flooring. I bought a Sharp air purifier for my den and it works wonders. I guess I'll be getting some more.

Back to my leak issue. I just got a call back from the builder. He called his plumber and they are going to come over sometime today. We'll see how they handle this. I know where the guy lives........ RS Beatdown crew? I'll give this guy a chance first. :D

[thumper]

I didn't realize it earlier but what is the deal with European builders? Are they generalized as people who usually have good workmanship?

But yea i have seen several new houses and the craftsmanship going into a lot of those new houses suck ass. I can see that windows have huge gaps or something. I think to myself that I dont know anything when it comes to building a house but I sure as hell know when something isn't done properly. I also think that I could probably do better myself.

the last time i saw a new place being built advertised as being done by a "european builder", it was actually the main contractor who was european, but all the trades working under him or he's hired were anything but :o

[silk]

the last time i saw a new place being built advertised as being done by a "european builder", it was actually the main contractor who was european, but all the trades working under him or he's hired were anything but :o

Goods that you bought "Made in Canada", it is actually made by chinese and orientals.. LOL

Look how many asian people are working at labour plants in BC. :P

[fliptuner]

I know this is a product defect and out of their hands to a degree but it's all about the way it's looked after.

That and I'm sure that when the builder chose that floor, price was a factor.

I watched a piece on the news a few months ago about more buyers leaning towards quality builds over frills (granite, marble flooring/counters, stainless appliances), that gave me a feeling of relief that the buyers are finally starting to look for themselves, at more important things like foundation, drainage, structure, HVAC, electrical and plumbing.

Most times they just leave it to the inspector to say if it's any good or not or rely on NHW to take care of it if there's a problem down the road.

Can't put much of the blame on the buyers though, most new homes are built like crap, covered with nice tile work, crown molding and stainless appliances.

[MG1]

the last time i saw a new place being built advertised as being done by a "european builder", it was actually the main contractor who was european, but all the trades working under him or he's hired were anything but :o

However, he makes sure it is done right, because it is his reputation on the line - pride. Nobody can get anything built these days without cheap, inexperienced labour, but if supervised correctly, you can maintain some degree of quality.

Having said all of that, I have come across a European builder who did ripp off a lot of people in Walnut Grove when it first opened up. He single handedly destroyed parts of phase one of the community with his not so handy, work.

[Mugen EvOlutioN]

made in china

thats wat happened

[Ferra]

you need mike holmes

http://www.hotmoviesale.com/dvds/23452/1/Holmes-on-Homes-Season-1.jpg
If your entire house was built by experienced professional (who deservedly should get paid $30+ an hour), instead of $10/hr laborer, you would be looking at $800,000+ instead of $500,000 for the same house.

And too bad when people are buying, they always pick the cheaper one first, and complain about the lower quality later.

The gas leak thing is REALLY fucked up tho. I wonder if you can complain to the association and have the guy's license revoked.

[Vansterdam]

european house? as far as i know majority of the houses being built around here now are all by brown people

[EmOne]

so which part of the plumbing is leaking??


maybe i can help :P

if you want send a pm this way

[EmOne]

also, what kind of fucking gas fitter cant install a range probably??

and is this guy ticketed??

i mean, you dont need any experience in gas fitting, if anyone have any common sense they should know its VALVE -> REG -> Braided Hose 2 your range

gas is dangerous, and if someone did a shitty job, it could blow your fucking house up

i say call back this guy and complain how serious the situation was.

[Harvey Specter]

My dad built shitload of houses a few years back in the fraserview area and I can tell you that you get what you pay for and not all East Indian and Asian contractors are bad; we had white contactors who did a far worst job. And I can tell you for a fact that some of the homes that are well over a million dollars now were built within tiny budgets, from anywhere from $200,000 to a max of $300,000 depending on the lot so imagine the quality of the workers.

I remember this one house we built, the framers were so bad that they built the house a few feet higher which the city didn't pass so it had to be lowered. I heard now the quality is even worst because the profit margin has shrunk because older lots are so damn expensive.

[skyxx]

^ Yeah, even the wood they use to build houses nowadays are pretty much crap. I remember watching my neighbour's house 1 house down being built. The builder/workers accidentally made a giant hole in one of the walls, all they did was cover it up. Lol

[MG1]

Well, the builder came by, and so did the listing agent. The builder was very apologetic and promised everything would be taken care of. As I mentioned before, I know where he lives, as in, he lives in the neighbourhood. He told me he walks down my street on his morning walks. Wow. Anyway, the house is no cheap house. No new house on a decent size lot is under a million dollars in Burnaby. Anyway, he did not want it to go any further than this. I had a letter ready to hand him with Cc to the association that covers the 2 - 5 - 10 warranty. I think that's the last thing he wants.

I have up to one year to compile a final deficiency list. I'll wait till then. If he does what he says and it's done to my satisfaction, I will tear the letter up. Shit happens and I'm willing to let it go.

As for the gas fitter dude. He fixed the problem. He too was apologetic. Still, why not do it right from the beginning?

I'm so glad new houses come with a comprehensive warranty.

[Hondaracer]

who's your home insured by if you dont mind me asking?

a slight head's up to anyone buying a new home, if it doesnt have the new home warantee under Travellers, odd's are it's a shotty builder :P

[dmc_civic]

Its all about S.T.B




slap, throw and bang it in

[!SG]

my parents home isnt all that great either, we have a missing stud in one of the walls. try finding it with a stud finder and well, it was way past 16in on center...

walls arent even close to 90 degrees!

[E-40six]

If you think your house is shitty, you should go look at all the new townhomes being built in richmond

its all about the cheap labour and no care about quality.

[MG1]

who's your home insured by if you dont mind me asking?

a slight head's up to anyone buying a new home, if it doesnt have the new home warantee under Travellers, odd's are it's a shotty builder :P

It's covered by Aviva, I believe. As with any insurance company that covers the 2-5-10, it must meet the standards set out by the Homeowner Protection Office and the insurance company must be approved by the Financial Institutions Commission.

This is as of any home built after July 1, 1999. The government passed the Homeowner Protection Act to ensure uniformity as far as standards of coverage, commencement dates, exclusions, and limits on coverage are concerned - to protect the consumer.

Having said all that, the insurance companies work within the parameters, so I suppose one can assume some are better than others. There's corruption everywhere, but the bottom line is, no builder wants complaints lodged against them if they want to continue building and build any kind of reputation. I met the builder today and he seemed quite genuine. He's been in the business for thirty years. I think too many complaints and nobody will cover him.

The question is, how many people take the time to complain or know how to go about filing a complaint. Anyway...........

I'm sure you know this (Hondaracer), but for those of you who are a little confused by it all, the above insurance company is not my regular insurance company that covers your basic theft, fire, etc. It's the company the builder is with to cover anything that may go wrong.

[antonito]

Just an FYI, being European is only a good thing if the Euro country they come from actually has the famous strict standards and trades education, such as Germany, and even then it's only applicable if that person has gone through said education.

Here's a hint: Countries like Poland, Romania, Croatia, etc don't actually have those super high standards as the national norm, and are just as shady quality-wise as EIs and Chinese people.

When I started I had a German boss that went through the certification process in Germany, and it's not even funny how much the stereotypes are true. I still haven't met another painter that knew and actually followed the proper ways of doing things like he did.

Since then I've worked for Polish, Chinese, Mexican and Canadian bosses, and the two-bit bullshit they try to pull sometimes is just depressing. I'm really glad I got to learn the right way, because most of the time it ends up being cheaper to do it the right way once than to have to come back later, undo all the shit that was done wrong, and do it right anyways, all the while having people screaming at you.

As far as cheap labour goes, like Ferra said, no one could afford houses built by quality tradesman doing all the work, the trick is to have someone actually checking what they do. The biggest problem wasn't that there was a lot of cheap labour being used, it's that there was no supervision. Even now you go to a jobsite and there's a bunch of yahoos and no foreman, and sure enough they're running wild fucking everything up, and no one catches them in time before everything gets boarded up and painted over.

[Mercy]

Quickly scrolled through, but a European doesn't cut corners, usually you'll find excellent craftsmanship. My dad used to do all sorts of things and when he did them he did them to the best of his abilitys and never ever cut corners because he knew whats the point in doing somthing when it cant be done right.

[GLOW]

how would you guys compare the old timer homes (50ish years old) to new houses nowadays? good quality b/c of the way they're built, regardless of age? i guess if it was also properly maintained and kept.

my parents bought a new house 10 years ago and i also noticed the lack of workmanship compared to our vancouver special we had before which was built in the 80's.

[q0192837465]

How many ppl r willing to pay more for high quality stuff? Ppl tend to look for cheap stuff & take the chance that nothing will go wrong.

[fliptuner]

How many ppl r willing to pay more for high quality stuff? Ppl tend to look for cheap stuff & take the chance that nothing will go wrong.

More like people pay for high quality finishing and don't pay enough attention to what it's build on/attached to.

[baggdis300]

Wife kept mentioning hardwood floors are this and that, etc. I told her next house we get will come with hardwood flooring. I also thought radiant heating would be awesome. I was sick of forced air furnace. Changing filters and having to clean ducts and registers. Now that I'm in a house that has hardwood flooring (not laminate or engineered) and radiant heat, I think I made a big mistake. I thought going without forced air would reduce dust. It's the complete opposite. With forced air, you get some kind of filtration. With radiant, there's no filtration of any kind. Didn't thnk about that one - chalk that up to stupidity on my part.

Not only that, no chance of air conditioning or heat exchangers with radiant flooring. I bought a Sharp air purifier for my den and it works wonders. I guess I'll be getting some more.

Back to my leak issue. I just got a call back from the builder. He called his plumber and they are going to come over sometime today. We'll see how they handle this. I know where the guy lives........ RS Beatdown crew? I'll give this guy a chance first. :D


and yes i agree that the quality of homes have gone down..

the last house i was in the drywallers did a shitty taping job and in under a year you could se seams noq the first "new" house we had built the workmenship was AMAZING house was solid and built out of 2x6's for all exterior walls instead of 2x4's every thing was perfect
the last 3 houses were made by indo-canadians and well, they were simply built to sell for profit and th quality shows.

thats why the new house we are having built is going to be done by reputable companys even if its going to cost more, atleast this way the hosue will be perfect

honestly dude, in the last 4 houses ive lived in we had hot water heating ,(due to allergies to dust) not a single problem, last 3 houses had infloor heating and by far was the BEST
and now in our new home being built(hosue 5) its with infloor heating and heat pump which is really the BEST of both worlds, a/c and infloor heating FTW