[iEatClams]

Leading economists from across the country say the Harmonized Sales Tax is the single most important step British Columbia can take to boost its economy.

Studies have shown that it's already working in the eastern provinces.

article from the vancouver sun:



You can love it or hate it but the HST is good public policy
Vancouver SunSeptember 1, 2009


Personal income tax is the single largest source of provincial government revenue.

Individual taxpayers contributed $6.2 billion in the last budget, representing about one-third of total taxation revenue, giving Victoria the financial wherewithal to spend $15 billion on health and $10 billion on education.

Statistics Canada says the top 10 per cent of income earners pay 52 per cent of all taxes.

Half the population in B.C. pays no income tax at all.

It is obvious from these facts that taxes paid by high-income individuals are crucial to the standard of living of British Columbians.

It should also be clear, even though it has been missing from the debate, that the harmonized sales tax is intended to ensure that B.C. is able to maintain and create employment that pays people well.

The average annual wage in B.C.'s mining industry is $112,000, an income that attracts the highest marginal provincial tax rate (and second-highest federal rate).

Highly paid work is equally found in forestry, manufacturing and oil and gas.

It's no accident that these industries are singled out to benefit from the introduction of the HST.

Collectively, they will save approximately $1.9 billion with the removal of provincial sales tax from business inputs.

The PST is an embedded cost to producers and that makes them uncompetitive not only in export markets but here at home, where they battle for market share against foreign rivals who have not been burdened by similar taxes.

In other words, by retaining the antiquated provincial sales tax, we disadvantage local companies at home and abroad.

Moreover, the evidence from the Atlantic provinces, where the harmonized tax was introduced in 1997, suggests the tax shift raises capital investment, which in turn boosts productivity.

B.C. lags the rest of Canada in this important measure of the efficiency of production.

Many analysts agree that future economic momentum will come increasingly from productivity gains rather than employment growth. The B.C. government claims the HST is equivalent to a 40-per-cent tax cut on business investment, which should propel productivity improvement going forward.

Baldly stated, more competitive businesses create high-paying jobs and generate tax revenues needed for essential services like health care and education.

There is plenty to criticize in the manner and method Gordon Campbell's Liberal government chose to introduce such a dramatic change in direction; that is, by decree issued unexpectedly in the first year of a new term with the legislature in recess.

Regardless of any political missteps, however, the HST is sound public policy.

It is pointless to try to conceal the fact that some goods and services that were exempt from provincial sales tax will now be subject to the harmonized tax, making them more expensive for consumers.

But economics is all about trade-offs. Without the $1.6-billion transition payment from the federal government, the reduction in administrative costs for government and business and the incentive to maintain highly-paid employment, it is more than likely personal income taxes would have to go up.

Perhaps an income tax cut might have made the HST a little more palatable at the outset, allowing it to be characterized as revenue neutral, like the carbon tax.

In any case, the burden on consumers may not be as significant as it's made out to be.

For example, homebuilders are particularly concerned about HST because they estimate it will increase the cost of a $600,000 home by $42,000, or $22,000 after the maximum $20,000-rebate the government has proposed.

However, the cost of construction should be substantially lower because the HST on building materials will be eliminated by an input credit.

Presumably, some builders will pass on these savings.

Resale homes are unaffected by the HST, although fees for legal and related services would attract the tax.

Given the high cost of housing and the added "closing costs" associated with a real estate sales, Victoria could soften the blow by increasing the threshold at which the HST kicks in and/or reducing the Property Transfer Tax.

The restaurant industry is also upset that the HST will apply to restaurant meals, which have been exempt from PST, a tax that restaurants in most other jurisdictions have paid for many years.

Unfortunately, there is no public policy goal to be realized by continuing to exempt this industry.

Money not spent on restaurant meals will be diverted to other uses. There's no negative macro-economic hit if the restaurant industry contracts, as one analyst bluntly put it.

Here again, the government could ease the pain by reducing payroll taxes like Workers Compensation premiums and urging the federal government to reduce Employment Insurance premiums.

B.C. needs coffee shops, restaurants and condo developments.

But we also need to produce goods and services such as base metals, lumber and high-tech gadgets the rest of the world wants to buy at competitive prices.

The best thing the government can do to induce that outcome is to tax consumption rather than production and investment.

And that's what the HST does.

© Copyright (c) The Vancouver Sun

[ynot-llat]

This article couldn't be more wrong.

The single most important thing that would boost the economy is legalizing and taxing the sale of Marijuana.

The HST is going to cripple the restaurant industry.
Places where they automatically slap on an 18% service fee, will now add the 12% HST. You're going to be paying 30% tax for your restaurant food.

Good luck with that.

[silk]

HST, GST, PST

who give a shit anymore, its not like we can change the law

peace out !

[mickz]

Bullshit, high-income individuals pay little to no tax. Why else would you hear about all those rich folk getting in shit for not paying their taxes?

[q0192837465]

Things to do

1) Buy a car before Jul 1 next year.
2) Make reservations for no more than 7 ppl in restaurants. If more, reserve 2 tables.

[bananana]

What the article is saying, and the government is hoping, is that businesses and restaurants will have lower operating costs due to harmonizing of the two taxes. They are hoping that these savings will be passed onto the consumers. So even though you are paying an extra 6% for your food, the food should cost less.

This article couldn't be more wrong.

The HST is going to cripple the restaurant industry.
Places where they automatically slap on an 18% service fee, will now add the 12% HST. You're going to be paying 30% tax for your restaurant food.


I hope you are being sarcastic.

Bullshit, high-income individuals pay little to no tax. Why else would you hear about all those rich folk getting in shit for not paying their taxes?

[Gt-R R34]

What the article is saying, and the government is hoping, is that businesses and restaurants will have lower operating costs due to harmonizing of the two taxes. They are hoping that these savings will be passed onto the consumers. So even though you are paying an extra 6% for your food, the food should cost less.



I hope you are being sarcastic.


restaurant won't reduce prices, if anything the prices will stay the same and increase. Find me a restaurant in town that has "reduced" all prices across the board instead of having "specials".


as for the Rich, it depends. how they are setup. self employed, salaried, company.

the rich CAN pay little or no taxes. i've seen T1 for 10k when he makes 2.5million annually.

[jackmeister]

What the article is saying, and the government is hoping, is that businesses and restaurants will have lower operating costs due to harmonizing of the two taxes. They are hoping that these savings will be passed onto the consumers. So even though you are paying an extra 6% for your food, the food should cost less.



I hope you are being sarcastic.

a restaurant doesnt have to pay much GST or PST on the stuff they buy because its mostly raw food which dont require either.

[WakeMeUp]

Bullshit, high-income individuals pay little to no tax. Why else would you hear about all those rich folk getting in shit for not paying their taxes?

Get a clue

[Nightwalker]

Looking forward to the decrease in tax on alcohol

[68style]

General rule of thumb to live by: if a politician tells you something is good for you, it's not.

[taylor192]

The HST is going to cripple the restaurant industry.
No it won't.

BC has the highest restaurant menu prices of all provinces and people here still eat out a ton. I pay on average 20-30% more for meals here than Ontario.

Example: I typically get a "hungry man breakfast" which costs about $12 in most places I've eaten in Vancouver, plus coffee is extra ($3). The same breakfast was $10 with coffee included in Ottawa.

Do I refuse to go out cause I'm paying 50% more for breakfast? No. Eating out is a luxury and people will continue to pay even if prices go up 12%.

[taylor192]

What the article is saying, and the government is hoping, is that businesses and restaurants will have lower operating costs due to harmonizing of the two taxes. They are hoping that these savings will be passed onto the consumers.
Business won't pass on these costs, and I doubt that is the hope of the government.

This change puts more money into business's hands, which should allow them to hire more and expand their business since they won't pass this along to the consumer.

[!SG]

the HST is one thing, but its the approach the liberals specifically their leader gordon campbell took to impliment the HST.

it was sneaky, it was sly, it was typical gordon campbell liberal politics.

if there was discussion, explanation of the HST to the public before applying it or the suggestion of applying it, then it would have been easier to accept. but not this "drop the bomb" tactic.

Shit, the NDP are having a field day on this one... I dont like NDP either, i like the liberals just not their leader.

[taylor192]

the HST is one thing, but its the approach the liberals specifically their leader gordon campbell took to impliment the HST.

it was sneaky, it was sly, it was typical gordon campbell liberal politics.

if there was discussion, explanation of the HST to the public before applying it or the suggestion of applying it, then it would have been easier to accept. but not this "drop the bomb" tactic.
How would you "explain it to the public" without "dropping the bomb"?

What you really mean is "explain it to the public" and "let the public have an opportunity to say NO" and reject it. There is no opportunity to reject this, its a federal mandate, and either BC can take the cash bribe and run or wait till Ottawa mandates the change and get nothing.

Its not going into affect for a year, so its hardly "dropping the bomb". Peple just don't like change or taxes and want to bitch/whine/complain.

[hotjoint]

saw the new last night, they're going to raise msp as well because of the "huge" deficit that they "couldn't" forsee.

[!SG]

"dropping the bomb" also means you dont have a choice, here you go!

campbell also campaigned, mind you it was in spring, not last year, not the year before, but months ago, no changes to tax. the way gov't works, decisions on something such as HST arent made within days. Also opposition party, let alone the rest of the house didnt even know of the HST.

I wont even begin to mention the budget being so far off. come on, if u build a house, and you do go over budget, its lets say, worse case scenario, 50% over budget, its within reason. but the gov'ts "estimation" was so far off, 5 times if not more than what was estimated. sure our economy took a dump this year, but come on, grade 10 business ed taught us how to better balance our books than how the current gov't is doing with them.

yes jumping on the fed cash rebate is always good, but decisions like these, and the way they have been handled, is down right stupid.

you'd think campbell's media relations, and liberal party would have put up a red flag saying "the public isnt gonna handle this good, maybe we should at least act humble about it and play it off." but instead its do it first, ask for permission 2nd. they are hired and elected, not the other way around. technically speaking the gov't is the employee, and the public is the employer, thats why they are called public civil servants.



How would you "explain it to the public" without "dropping the bomb"?

What you really mean is "explain it to the public" and "let the public have an opportunity to say NO" and reject it. There is no opportunity to reject this, its a federal mandate, and either BC can take the cash bribe and run or wait till Ottawa mandates the change and get nothing.

Its not going into affect for a year, so its hardly "dropping the bomb". Peple just don't like change or taxes and want to bitch/whine/complain.

[racerman88]

it is like the carbon tax and it screws over the average joe We will even be taxed on things that were not taxable before like bike safety gear, like helmets for cyclists and motorcyclists for example.

[SumAznGuy]

Looking forward to the decrease in tax on alcohol

It was talked about on the news last night. Though the HST will bring down the tax on alcohol, the BC government is adding another tax to alcohol so in the end, the price isn't going to come down. :mad:

[TheKingdom2000]

i'm not in favour of the sales tax because i'm the consumer.. and when it comes down to it i have no control over what price i pay. i just know i have to pay it.

if the HST actually works then the consumer "should" see the benefits.. i just find it hard to believe that companies who are making more money by saving on PST will actually pass those savings down to us? isn't it all about their bottom line.. so if they're making more why would they lower their prices?

BUT, in theory i do agree with the HST... i'm just weary about the practical application..

and only if our bitching and whining is going to do anything... what's done is done.. and HST is coming july 2010 ftw or failblog... we'll see.

[RacePace]

Economies will always go up and down. I wonder what the next tax will be when the next recession hits

[SlySi]

Economies will always go up and down. I wonder what the next tax will be when the next recession hits

Next one is increase in MSP....

Oh wait.. its coming.. Jan 2010

[taylor192]

"dropping the bomb" also means you dont have a choice, here you go!
We don't have a choice. We elect officials to make the choices for us.

I was in Ontario when the "bomb was dropped" about HST. The general public had the same complaints, why? cause they didn't get a choice.

Guess what? The Ontario Liberals ran a campaign of no tax changes too, yet HST goes into affect next year.

the way gov't works, decisions on something such as HST arent made within days. Also opposition party, let alone the rest of the house didnt even know of the HST.
Any politician would have to be stupid not to know HST was coming, its been a federal mandate. The opposition parties are just pandering.

I wont even begin to mention the budget being so far off. come on, if u build a house, and you do go over budget, its lets say, worse case scenario, 50% over budget, its within reason. but the gov'ts "estimation" was so far off, 5 times if not more than what was estimated. sure our economy took a dump this year, but come on, grade 10 business ed taught us how to better balance our books than how the current gov't is doing with them.
You mean the deficit is 5x higher. LOL Here's some math:

$2.8B is about 7% of the $39B budget, and the difference of $2.3B from the previous $0.5B deficit is only 6% of total revenue.

I may not have taken grade 10 Business Ed, yet +/-6% seems reasonable to adjust for.

yes jumping on the fed cash rebate is always good, but decisions like these, and the way they have been handled, is down right stupid.
Its only stupid cause you don't get a vote.

you'd think campbell's media relations, and liberal party would have put up a red flag saying "the public isnt gonna handle this good, maybe we should at least act humble about it and play it off." but instead its do it first, ask for permission 2nd.
This is where the crux of your argument falls flat on its face. There is no "asking for permission", either the province does it, or Ottawa mandates it eventually. We're the 4th last province to implement the HST, with only Nova Scotia, Manitoba, and Saskatchewan left. Not exactly good company when all the other big populated provinces have already jumped on board.

I'm sorry you feel this way, yet every politician isn't going to ask for your permission on every decision.

they are hired and elected, not the other way around. technically speaking the gov't is the employee, and the public is the employer, thats why they are called public civil servants.
Ah, so you do expect to be consulted on every decision government makes.

Here's where you're wrong: They are elected, and work for us, yet we elect them once every 4 years to make decisions for us.

Did they have to consult you on the tax decreases over the past decade that has BCians paying far less income tax now (about $2K on $70K/yr)? That same decision is impacting the budget now, having taken away money in good times that could have been used to balance the budget in bad times.

Personally I'd love to be consulted on tax decreases. Taxes should not be decreased in good times, they should be raised and put into rainy-day accounts for future bad times. Yet I wasn't consulted (not withstanding that I didn't live here).

[hotjoint]

Next one is increase in MSP....

Oh wait.. its coming.. Jan 2010

yup, motherfuckers making us pay more for msp now. Our cost of living here is unbelievable! :mad:

[iEatClams]

We don't have a choice. We elect officials to make the choices for us.

I was in Ontario when the "bomb was dropped" about HST. The general public had the same complaints, why? cause they didn't get a choice.

Guess what? The Ontario Liberals ran a campaign of no tax changes too, yet HST goes into affect next year.


Any politician would have to be stupid not to know HST was coming, its been a federal mandate. The opposition parties are just pandering.


You mean the deficit is 5x higher. LOL Here's some math:

$2.8B is about 7% of the $39B budget, and the difference of $2.3B from the previous $0.5B deficit is only 6% of total revenue.

I may not have taken grade 10 Business Ed, yet +/-6% seems reasonable to adjust for.


Its only stupid cause you don't get a vote.


This is where the crux of your argument falls flat on its face. There is no "asking for permission", either the province does it, or Ottawa mandates it eventually. We're the 4th last province to implement the HST, with only Nova Scotia, Manitoba, and Saskatchewan left. Not exactly good company when all the other big populated provinces have already jumped on board.

I'm sorry you feel this way, yet every politician isn't going to ask for your permission on every decision.


Ah, so you do expect to be consulted on every decision government makes.

Here's where you're wrong: They are elected, and work for us, yet we elect them once every 4 years to make decisions for us.

Did they have to consult you on the tax decreases over the past decade that has BCians paying far less income tax now (about $2K on $70K/yr)? That same decision is impacting the budget now, having taken away money in good times that could have been used to balance the budget in bad times.

Personally I'd love to be consulted on tax decreases. Taxes should not be decreased in good times, they should be raised and put into rainy-day accounts for future bad times. Yet I wasn't consulted (not withstanding that I didn't live here).

I may not completely agree, but quoted for being a good post, unlike some other comments on this thread. . ..

[you!]

u guys are all being fooled thinking that this whole thing is good for us
dont u guys see the pattern here...first they lie to the public and announced the hst, and now they decide to increase msp
i would not be surprised if there will be more hikes to be announced in the future

http://www.revscene.net/forums/stop-hst-now-t585919.html?t=585919

.

[mgarba]

I swear to god that Taylor guy is a Liberal party employee. I'm not kidding, on any post on this board that has anything to do with the Liberals, he is pro-stance. Give me a break.

[pandalove]

Tax is Tax .. you don't like it u can move ...
but these thing should be brought up for discussion and debate ... not just imposed on us with no choice

[hk20000]

it's alright I guess I'll be sticking to eating at home more. Otherwise we still pay 12% regardless.... If you think about it.

[misteranswer]

Tax is Tax .. you don't like it u can move ...
but these thing should be brought up for discussion and debate ... not just imposed on us with no choice

What are the decisions that don't require a debate?

[WakeMeUp]

Tax is Tax .. you don't like it u can move ...
but these thing should be brought up for discussion and debate ... not just imposed on us with no choice

I really think we elect who we want to govern us and want them to govern without making a public vote out of every decision. I think in general people expect good government to happen.

[taylor192]

I swear to god that Taylor guy is a Liberal party employee. I'm not kidding, on any post on this board that has anything to do with the Liberals, he is pro-stance. Give me a break.

I'm a conservative, BC lacks a conservative party, so the Liberals are the next best option.

I actually really like the BC Liberals. They cut and balance budgets, reduce taxes and support business. The federal Conservatives OTOH are acting like a bunch of loose wallet lefties, giving away money to anyone that cries for it. So there you go, I'm a conservative and I will criticize the party I support too.

Most people on this forum are uneducated and just like to complain to hear their own voice. Read more about the issues. this is why I sound like a political campaign manager, cause I actually read about them and have an educated opinion on them.

[!SG]

you may read into politics a lot more than 99% of the ppl here, including me. bc politics and public persona here is much different than east coast politics. we arent the first to be handled any grants or gifts from the gov't. we are the last in the chain.

Your type of attitude towards gov't decisions would be great as porn star as you will just sit there, accept the fact you accepted the job, and take it, even if you didnt sign up for "that part" of the job.

Gov't is elected, it is THERE JOB to keep us informed, of all major decisions that will affect the public. Sure the pickings are slim, and sure we will not always agree on every single decision, but it is THERE JOB to keep us informed. As a whole, i side with the liberals, however, that doesnt mean i agree with every single decision they make. Id be damned to let the NDP go into power, they will just spend and spend and spend, and then spend some more, then make excuses the spending was necessary to fix what the liberals did 10 years ago.

And its our right to voice our opinions.

the issue is the liberals want to bring in the HST, they did not announce that the feds would give them a break in period with funding UNTIL after the public outcry. sounds to me like a political move, testing the waters to see public reaction to the intro of HST, then if there was an overly strong reaction opposing it, then they would announce the fed's support.

re read what the original estimated deficit was compared to the actual. seems like a recouring theme with almost anything this liberal gov't has touched, fudge the numbers. all i ask is a 20% margin from the original estimate, not 500% margin.

I'm a conservative, BC lacks a conservative party, so the Liberals are the next best option.

I actually really like the BC Liberals. They cut and balance budgets, reduce taxes and support business. The federal Conservatives OTOH are acting like a bunch of loose wallet lefties, giving away money to anyone that cries for it. So there you go, I'm a conservative and I will criticize the party I support too.

Most people on this forum are uneducated and just like to complain to hear their own voice. Read more about the issues. this is why I sound like a political campaign manager, cause I actually read about them and have an educated opinion on them.

[taylor192]

you may read into politics a lot more than 99% of the ppl here, including me. bc politics and public persona here is much different than east coast politics. we arent the first to be handled any grants or gifts from the gov't. we are the last in the chain.
BC politics is certainly different, I was expecting a lot more lefty liberal views, finding out the BC Liberals arevery conservative fiscally was a huge plus.

I'm from Ontario. The Ontario economy for most of the last 50 years has supported those "grants and gifts" so I know about those all too well. Not only did Ontarians not get them, we paid them, to the tune of $8B to our second-world country province, Queerbexico, next door.

BC isn't the last in the chain, and with Harper, the West is much better represented.

Your type of attitude towards gov't decisions would be great as porn star as you will just sit there, accept the fact you accepted the job, and take it, even if you didnt sign up for "that part" of the job.
LOL

Trust me, I'm very unwilling to take certain decisions, yet I am for the HST. I'm appalled by the public outcry, since most of it seems uneducated complaints, not actual criticism. There are faults in the HST, yet few here have hit on any of them.

Most just don't want to pay more/different tax, and sorry, to those people, their vote doesn't count. That's like blindly saying "all politicians are crocks" or "my taxes pay for homeless people to sit around", ...

Gov't is elected, it is THERE JOB to keep us informed, of all major decisions that will affect the public. Sure the pickings are slim, and sure we will not always agree on every single decision, but it is THERE JOB to keep us informed.
Agreed, yet the opposition parties did not mention the HST either. All politicians kept us in the dark on this, so just blaming the Liberals is pandering.

the issue is the liberals want to bring in the HST, they did not announce that the feds would give them a break in period with funding UNTIL after the public outcry. sounds to me like a political move, testing the waters to see public reaction to the intro of HST, then if there was an overly strong reaction opposing it, then they would announce the fed's support.
Ah, politics, like euchre, save your trump card.

re read what the original estimated deficit was compared to the actual. seems like a recouring theme with almost anything this liberal gov't has touched, fudge the numbers. all i ask is a 20% margin from the original estimate, not 500% margin.
It all depends on context. 6% margin of estimating revenue is reasonable to me.

Doubling the original deficit from $500M to $1B would only be a 2.5% shortfall of revenue, yet a 100% increase to the deficit. This is why I hate sensationalized reporting. 2.5% revenue shortfall is reasonable to expect, yet the public only looks at 100% deficit increase.

[misteranswer]

Imagine if they estimated a balanced budget. Oh my god, the deficit was infinitely times greater!

[the_law82]

BC politics is certainly different, I was expecting a lot more lefty liberal views, finding out the BC Liberals arevery conservative fiscally was a huge plus.

That's because the BC Liberal party is separate from the federal Liberal party. BC Liberal party is actually much closer to the federal Conservative party in their policies.

This is one very unknown fact and people often confuse the BC vs. federal Liberal parties.

I don't know too much about the Ontario governments but I have briefly read that the Ontario Liberals are more like the NDP in policies.

[AsBannedAsItGets]

yup, motherfuckers making us pay more for msp now. Our cost of living here is unbelievable! :mad:

If the cost of living is too much for you to bear then why don't you move to another province such as Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, New Brunswick??
I'm sure the cost of living in those provinces is a lot cheaper :thumbsup:
Don't complain about the cost of living in a city which has much more demand than other places. Its a privilege to live in such a beautiful city as Vancouver but in all reality it isn't the cheapest city to live in.

[taylor192]

That's because the BC Liberal party is separate from the federal Liberal party. BC Liberal party is actually much closer to the federal Conservative party in their policies.

This is one very unknown fact and people often confuse the BC vs. federal Liberal parties.

I don't know too much about the Ontario governments but I have briefly read that the Ontario Liberals are more like the NDP in policies.

I knew the provincial Liberals are different than the federal Liberals (Ontario Liberals are very left, while the federal Liberals were more centre), yet I didn't expect such a huge difference in BC.

The Ontario Liberals balance budgets by raising taxes. The BC Liberals balance budgets with service cuts.

[!SG]

as a business owner, im for the HST.

as a bc resident, im against the HST.

the utopian idea of businesses passing on the saves to the consumer will never happen.

I knew the provincial Liberals are different than the federal Liberals (Ontario Liberals are very left, while the federal Liberals were more centre), yet I didn't expect such a huge difference in BC.

The Ontario Liberals balance budgets by raising taxes. The BC Liberals balance budgets with service cuts.

[taylor192]

as a business owner, im for the HST.

as a bc resident, im against the HST.

the utopian idea of businesses passing on the saves to the consumer will never happen.
So we can blame you for not passing the savings into the consumer and just pocketing it? :p

[CounterPuncher]

Bullshit, high-income individuals pay little to no tax. Why else would you hear about all those rich folk getting in shit for not paying their taxes?

Fuck you asshole.

For not paying much tax my dad shit bricks when 50 cents of every dollar he makes goes to paying for your welfare wankslice.

[CounterPuncher]

Things to do

1) Buy a car before Jul 1 next year.
2) Make reservations for no more than 7 ppl in restaurants. If more, reserve 2 tables.

Cars were always pst/gst so I don't know what you're sayin there.

[CounterPuncher]

No it won't.

BC has the highest restaurant menu prices of all provinces and people here still eat out a ton. I pay on average 20-30% more for meals here than Ontario.

Example: I typically get a "hungry man breakfast" which costs about $12 in most places I've eaten in Vancouver, plus coffee is extra ($3). The same breakfast was $10 with coffee included in Ottawa.

Do I refuse to go out cause I'm paying 50% more for breakfast? No. Eating out is a luxury and people will continue to pay even if prices go up 12%.

IMHO it will.

In this economic climate people can't afford additional costs which they don't see a return value.

It's insane, a 100 dollar bill is actually (After tip and all) is going to be $127 dollars.

I'm happy I'm not a waiter now because I'm not going to tip shit. It's not like I Can't afford it I just got a fucking massive pay raise, however I'm not going to sit around and get massively ass fucked by the government on booze taxes, HST, and then a tip.

[CounterPuncher]

If the cost of living is too much for you to bear then why don't you move to another province such as Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, New Brunswick??
I'm sure the cost of living in those provinces is a lot cheaper :thumbsup:
Don't complain about the cost of living in a city which has much more demand than other places. Its a privilege to live in such a beautiful city as Vancouver but in all reality it isn't the cheapest city to live in.

I think you have to get a few realities straight here.

Vancouver is having difficulty now and will inevitably fail to sustain it's residents.

BC now has the lowest minimum wage in the country with near the highest cost of living. What that means is that the people that are buying here and living here do not generate revenue from within the city/province.

It's brought in from abroad. What that means is that as these people move into our vacation city (because that's really what is is, right? Vancouver doesn't produce anything) it's pushing people further and further out.

What it means is that the people that were born here will not be able to live here.

It's easy to say 'why don't you move else where?' but it doesn't solve the basic financial problem that the cost of living is high, wages are low and those that are making money hand over fist generally aren't from Vancouver.

The end result is a city that's like a super model, awesome to look at but completely lack substance.

By fucking its population that loves to live here I think the governments (metro and provincial) are really fucking themselves.

I don't see how people here can afford all of their taxes, pay for a roof over their head, and pay a 12% premium on almost everything.

My friends and I all went to private school, by all accounts we're all standing to inherit a lot of money... and the grim reality is none of us want to live here. Too many costs, not enough upside, you get taxed to death and it's not really easy to start things up here.

Fuck it. I'd rather live in the States and fly up here to go skiing in the winter.

[SkinnyPupp]

The main complaint I see about HST is that it benefits rich people, and hurts poor people somehow.

The solution to me is simple: Become a rich person! Instead of bitching about everything, go do something to change your situation! Bitches!

[CounterPuncher]

The main complaint I see about HST is that it benefits rich people, and hurts poor people somehow.

The solution to me is simple: Become a rich person! Instead of bitching about everything, go do something to change your situation! Bitches!

That's something I don't get, you get fucked equally, everyone does.

It's not like because rich people have more they pay less of an HST. It's the same for everyone. They can probably just suck it up more than others.

[carisear]

What it means is that the people that were born here will not be able to live here.

It's easy to say 'why don't you move else where?' but it doesn't solve the basic financial problem that the cost of living is high, wages are low and those that are making money hand over fist generally aren't from Vancouver.


the problem is that the people who are born here, are the ones fucking themselves over. 'we need more social services. we need more environmental protection. we need to give drugs to everyone in the dtes. we need our community centres to all have 60" plasmas. etc etc etc.

those are the people who are making our taxes crazy. even though [some hugely insane percentage] of our taxes goes towards 'health care', these people want more. When theres talk of trying to trim it ever so slightly, *gasp* REVOLT!

unions are the biggest problem imo.

[JesseBlue]

i blame the government for all of this..haha...they just care about ensuring that we don't have a deficit...if we don't...they get a raise...if we do...we get the raise (in taxes)

[CounterPuncher]

the problem is that the people who are born here, are the ones fucking themselves over. 'we need more social services. we need more environmental protection. we need to give drugs to everyone in the dtes. we need our community centres to all have 60" plasmas. etc etc etc.

those are the people who are making our taxes crazy. even though [some hugely insane percentage] of our taxes goes towards 'health care', these people want more. When theres talk of trying to trim it ever so slightly, *gasp* REVOLT!

unions are the biggest problem imo.

Jeeze I don't even know where to start with this one other than to say you're an uninformed generalizing idiot.

[taylor192]

I think you have to get a few realities straight here.
Lets cause you're living in dreamland.

Vancouver is having difficulty now and will inevitably fail to sustain it's residents.
With one of the lowest unemployment rates in the country and the only province with lots of foriegns and other Canadians emigrating to here.

BC residents also have the highest net worth, mostly property values, yet even with a drop in property values BC personal net worth is very high.

BC is doing just fine.

It's brought in from abroad. What that means is that as these people move into our vacation city (because that's really what is is, right? Vancouver doesn't produce anything) it's pushing people further and further out.
Oh you mean people make millions elsewhere and decide to live and spend it here. Yes its bad they are making money elsewhere, yet its great they are spending it here.

What it means is that the people that were born here will not be able to live here.
Boo hoo. That's what happens with density and cities grow in size, eventually the middle class gets pushed out to the burbs or they go to a new city.

If you want to live somewhere that for generations your family wll be able to afford to buy, try a small town. Big cities just don't work that way, tourist town or otherwise.

It's easy to say 'why don't you move else where?' but it doesn't solve the basic financial problem that the cost of living is high, wages are low and those that are making money hand over fist generally aren't from Vancouver.
Sure it does. If enough people leave and minimum wage jobs cannot be filled, things will change. Yet guess what? That means you have to put up or shut up, whining and complaining will get you no-where.

Cities change, and Vancouver is headed towards being a tourist city. It sucks, yet we're on the west coast and far from most major cities. This is why few companies are head quartered here, and doing business here costs more. You cannot exactly move Vancouver closer to major US hubs, or suddenly make the cost of doing business at a distance cheaper, so what's your plan to change Vancouver into a sprawling metropolis rather than a tourist city?

The end result is a city that's like a super model, awesome to look at but completely lack substance.
So, how will raising minimum wage add substance? It won't.

I don't see how people here can afford all of their taxes, pay for a roof over their head, and pay a 12% premium on almost everything.
More people keep moving here, so obviously they can.

I'll give you a hint:
1. income taxes are much less here.
2. despite the luxury cars you see driving around, there's actually more economy cars here than in Toronto/Montreal/Calgary/... cause people spend more on housing than cars.
3. people own condos without yards and garages, so they have less material possessions and are less wasteful with their money.
4. lots of immigrant families live multiple generations to a single home

My friends and I all went to private school, by all accounts we're all standing to inherit a lot of money... and the grim reality is none of us want to live here. Too many costs, not enough upside, you get taxed to death and it's not really easy to start things up here.
You must be in university or a recent grad, cause you talk like someone without any real world experience. Income and corporate taxes are less here than in many other provinces and HST will reduce the cost of ding business.

I hope your family teaches you some business sense before leaving you any money, obviously that private school hasn't taught you much.

Fuck it. I'd rather live in the States and fly up here to go skiing in the winter.
I suggest Texas, no state and few municipal taxes.

Before you go claiming you'll pay so much less in tax, look it up. Most major US cities you'll pay:
federal income tax
state income tax
municipal income/school/services tax
municipal property tax
sales tax
road tolls

Add it all up and let me know much much less you'll be paying.

[taylor192]

I'm happy I'm not a waiter now because I'm not going to tip shit. It's not like I Can't afford it I just got a fucking massive pay raise, however I'm not going to sit around and get massively ass fucked by the government on booze taxes, HST, and then a tip.
Well aren't you nice, you'll rip off a poor waiter/waitress of a deserved tip cause you're upset at the government.

You went to private school and have parents worth a lot of $$$, yet all that didn't teach you any sense of decency.

You put the ass in classy.

[taylor192]

Cars were always pst/gst so I don't know what you're sayin there.
Used cars are GST exempt.

[taylor192]

the problem is that the people who are born here, are the ones fucking themselves over. 'we need more social services. we need more environmental protection. we need to give drugs to everyone in the dtes. we need our community centres to all have 60" plasmas. etc etc etc.

those are the people who are making our taxes crazy. even though [some hugely insane percentage] of our taxes goes towards 'health care', these people want more. When theres talk of trying to trim it ever so slightly, *gasp* REVOLT!

unions are the biggest problem imo.
+1, don;t listen to CounterPuncher, he's some spoiled rich kid with no manners and no real world experience.

[CounterPuncher]

Lets cause you're living in dreamland.


With one of the lowest unemployment rates in the country and the only province with lots of foriegns and other Canadians emigrating to here.



Yes statistically BC has low unemployment, so what?



BC residents also have the highest net worth, mostly property values, yet even with a drop in property values BC personal net worth is very high.



Yes, as you pointed out BC residents have high personal values. When my parents bought the lot they have their house on now, they bought it for $150,000 and it is now worth roughly 3.5 million.

Unfortunately personal value has very little to do with buying power, while people that have lived here for 30-40 years have value hand over fist many new market entrants are having to move further and further into the valley.


BC is doing just fine.



That's up for debate.



Oh you mean people make millions elsewhere and decide to live and spend it here. Yes its bad they are making money elsewhere, yet its great they are spending it here.



No there's nothing wrong with that except for the fact that Vancouver is now predominantly a customer service based city. We have very little industry, very little manufacturing and are almost completely dependent on people coming here for tourism.

We've seen recently how the rise of the Canadian dollar which killed the amount of Americans visiting here has brought a lot of hotels to its knees.

Case and point, I can go and get a room at the Chateau Whistler right now for $99 dollars.

The fact is unless we have core industry we can rely on, we're in a lot of trouble. I'm not saying tourism is bad, I'm saying being solely dependent on it is bad.

It's kind of like the saying there is always someone richer, and better looking. When Vancouver's 15 minutes is over (which might not be for another 20-25 years) I'm not sure what will be left.



Boo hoo. That's what happens with density and cities grow in size, eventually the middle class gets pushed out to the burbs or they go to a new city.



The problem is that there is becoming less and less of a middle class. Because of extremely limited buying power of the dollar.

If you're making $200,000 a year, you're making shit here.



If you want to live somewhere that for generations your family wll be able to afford to buy, try a small town. Big cities just don't work that way, tourist town or otherwise.



You dumb fuck, you just don't see it do you? 20 years ago Vancouver was a small city. It's amazing what happens when people get displaced. 20 years ago people moved here because it was cheap.

Now look what has happened.

Frankly, I can live here, I don't have to give a fuck.




Sure it does. If enough people leave and minimum wage jobs cannot be filled, things will change. Yet guess what? That means you have to put up or shut up, whining and complaining will get you no-where.

Cities change, and Vancouver is headed towards being a tourist city. It sucks, yet we're on the west coast and far from most major cities. This is why few companies are head quartered here, and doing business here costs more. You cannot exactly move Vancouver closer to major US hubs, or suddenly make the cost of doing business at a distance cheaper, so what's your plan to change Vancouver into a sprawling metropolis rather than a tourist city?



I'm not saying to change it I'm saying to add more industry.




So, how will raising minimum wage add substance? It won't.



When a person's wage can buy them 2 heads of cauliflower.. I'm rightfully worried.




More people keep moving here, so obviously they can.

I'll give you a hint:
1. income taxes are much less here.
2. despite the luxury cars you see driving around, there's actually more economy cars here than in Toronto/Montreal/Calgary/... cause people spend more on housing than cars.
3. people own condos without yards and garages, so they have less material possessions and are less wasteful with their money.
4. lots of immigrant families live multiple generations to a single home



Thanks for the life help champ, because I didn't know these things. You're a real genius.

<golf clap>



You must be in university or a recent grad, cause you talk like someone without any real world experience. Income and corporate taxes are less here than in many other provinces and HST will reduce the cost of ding business.



Thanks pal, I know, I'll be lining my pockets with more money because of the reduced costs.

[/quote]



I hope your family teaches you some business sense before leaving you any money, obviously that private school hasn't taught you much.



Obviously right, because you know me. I do very well for myself thanks and I have as much business sense as I should. How's the weather up on that high horse you are on?



I suggest Texas, no state and few municipal taxes.

Before you go claiming you'll pay so much less in tax, look it up. Most major US cities you'll pay:
federal income tax
state income tax
municipal income/school/services tax
municipal property tax
sales tax
road tolls

Add it all up and let me know much much less you'll be paying.


I'll be paying a lot less because I'll be able to deduct a lot more, spend less on housing.

I was thinking either Arizona or Missouri where state sales taxes are 3%.

Cheers.

[CounterPuncher]

+1, don;t listen to CounterPuncher, he's some spoiled rich kid with no manners and no real world experience.

And you sound like someone who wishes they had my life. :haha:

[CounterPuncher]

Well aren't you nice, you'll rip off a poor waiter/waitress of a deserved tip cause you're upset at the government.

You went to private school and have parents worth a lot of $$$, yet all that didn't teach you any sense of decency.

You put the ass in classy.

Yes, they taught me a lot of decency, they also taught me to not be stupid with my money.

I'm not spending an extra 30-35% to go out for dinner.

[CounterPuncher]

By the way, I'm not sure when this became a personal attack session. When did being against the HST become disillusional and crazy.

I simply don't think it's a good idea in a place wher ethings are already extremely extremely expensive.

[CounterPuncher]

North America
If the US dollar stays weak, Canadian cities could become the most expensive in North America as Vancouver (34th) and Montréal (=36th) continue to close the price gap on New York. Vancouver is now only four percentage points cheaper than New York and more expensive than any other city in North America. Montreal has the same cost of living as Chicago (=36th), the second costliest in the US.

http://www.citymayors.com/economics/expensive_cities_eiu.html

How the fuck are we almost as expensive as New York?

Yeah this place needs to become more expensive.

[B-DiZzLe]

Yes another HST thread.


Bottom line here, FUCK HST.

[CorneringArtist]

CounterPuncher and taylor192 sound like two sides of the same coin.

Nonetheless, I'm not upset about the implementation of the HST THAT much, but what pissed me off about it was that they just sprung it on us with zero warning.

[taylor192]

And you sound like someone who wishes they had my life. :haha:
Thanks for confirming your status as a spoiled rich kid. You are ignored.

[Soundy]

Used cars are GST exempt.

Michael Levy made a good point the other day when he was battling Mike Smyth about this: people react as if the HST is *adding* a tax, when it's in fact *replacing* the PST... as in, the PST itself is going away.

That means, anything that didn't have GST on it before, WON'T have the HST on it; thus, anything that currently has PST but not GST, will as of July 1 not have EITHER tax.

[taylor192]

CounterPuncher and taylor192 sound like two sides of the same coin.
Please don't put in the same category as some spoiled fuck who can afford private school, brags about unearned family riches, then talks of not even having the decency to leave a hard working waitress a proper tip cause he has to pay a bit more on a $100 meal.

[taylor192]

By the way, I'm not sure when this became a personal attack session.

When you said this:

Fuck you asshole.

For not paying much tax my dad shit bricks when 50 cents of every dollar he makes goes to paying for your welfare wankslice.

Next time I'll ask for your father's opinion, since he's the one with the financial success.

[pandalove]

damn i dunno who to root for .. both taylor and counter have their points ><

[skyxx]

I thought you're only against the GOD DAMN SKYTRAIN.....

[taylor192]

Michael Levy made a good point the other day when he was battling Mike Smyth about this: people react as if the HST is *adding* a tax, when it's in fact *replacing* the PST... as in, the PST itself is going away.

That means, anything that didn't have GST on it before, WON'T have the HST on it; thus, anything that currently has PST but not GST, will as of July 1 not have EITHER tax.
Can you post the specifics of this, I want to buy a used Jeep and this would make my decision to wait worthwhile.

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/bsnss/tpcs/gst-tps/gnrl/txbl/menu-eng.html

Used cars are not listed here (or at least I cannot find it).

Thanks.

[taylor192]

damn i dunno who to root for .. both taylor and counter have their points ><

I wouldn't root for the guy who wants to move to avoid paying taxes, and under-tip hard working people cause he has to pay a little bit more for food, when his family is sitting on $3.5M.

Here's why I like the HST:
http://www.gov.bc.ca/hst/Documents/HST_How_It_Works_Web.jpg

The HST becomes a truly valued-added-tax. Yes it means consumers have to pay more for the things they want, yet that's the point. If you want to buy a LCD TV, you should pay the associated costs, I shouldn't be subsidizing it via my income tax.

It also makes doing business outside the country less lucrative. Goods manufactured outside this country do not have the PST applied at each step, only on the final sale (and the import duties if applicable). Companies can avoid tax buy manufacturing outside Canada and selling here, yet with the HST thy don't ave to avoid taxation anymore, the end consumer pays it.

[El Bastardo]

So you're happy about a tax that sees companies getting further incentives to take manufacturing jobs outside of Canada?

Wow, I've always thought you were an amateur douche. This just bumped you up to olympic level

[SkinnyPupp]

I wouldn't root for the guy who wants to move to avoid paying taxes, and under-tip hard working people cause he has to pay a little bit more for food, when his family is sitting on $3.5M.

Here's why I like the HST:
http://www.gov.bc.ca/hst/Documents/HST_How_It_Works_Web.jpg

The HST becomes a truly valued-added-tax. Yes it means consumers have to pay more for the things they want, yet that's the point. If you want to buy a LCD TV, you should pay the associated costs, I shouldn't be subsidizing it via my income tax.

It also makes doing business outside the country less lucrative. Goods manufactured outside this country do not have the PST applied at each step, only on the final sale (and the import duties if applicable). Companies can avoid tax buy manufacturing outside Canada and selling here, yet with the HST thy don't ave to avoid taxation anymore, the end consumer pays it.
Holy FUCK someone just made a sensible post about the HST?
So you're happy about a tax that sees companies getting further incentives to take manufacturing jobs outside of Canada?

Wow, I've always thought you were an amateur douche. This just bumped you up to olympic level
Umm I think you need to reread some things...

[impactX]

What about used cars, do we still need to pay HST on that (when the first owner already paid HST on it)?

[SkinnyPupp]

Because you have to pay sales tax on a sale.

[pandalove]

Oooooooooooooooooo so THATS what HST is .... okay i'm for it then :)
wait wait ... so does this mean i have to pay hst on skytrain fare?

[Soundy]

Can you post the specifics of this, I want to buy a used Jeep and this would make my decision to wait worthwhile.

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/bsnss/tpcs/gst-tps/gnrl/txbl/menu-eng.html

Used cars are not listed here (or at least I cannot find it).

Thanks.

I could give you an approximate timeframe to look it up on cknw.com's "Audio Vault" - when Mike Smythe was on covering the Bill Good show for a couple weeks there, he went on an anti-HST crusade. He had Michael Levy on to inject an actual financial analyst's view, but as soon as Levy started talking sense about the upside, Smythe got downright hysterical, and would barely let him get a word in edgewise.

If memory serves, the bit I'm referring to was during Levy's first appearance... he was back one or two more times after that for a "cage match" (as Smythe liked to bill it)... dunno how they actually talked Levy into coming back a second time, let alone how he restrained himself from belting Smythe upside the head repeatedly...

Couldn't tell you the exact dates, but you can probably look it up on cknw.com

[taylor192]

Holy FUCK someone just made a sensible post about the HST?
Depends, I'll play Devil's advocate on my own post.

My previous coworkers made less than me, yet didn't save a dime and spent it all on gadgets. This always annoyed me, why aren't they saving for the future - yet why should they save, cause when hard times hit governments give away money to them to spend even more recklessly to "stimulate" the economy.

They want their toys, want others to pay for them, and guess who's going to pay down the deficit spending? The top 10% of earners who pay > 50% of the tax. Arg... no wonder there's so many people against this tax, they don't want to pay their fair share.

Its the "Ant and Grasshopper" story we've all seen as a Disney movie. Too bad Disney did us all a dis-service, cause in the original story the Grasshopper dies.

Umm I think you need to reread some things...
LOL love your multi-quote, I don't even need to respond to el-bastardo.

[taylor192]

so does this mean i have to pay hst on skytrain fare?
I think pubic transit is exempt, check the link in one of my posts to be sure.

[CounterPuncher]

Thanks for confirming your status as a spoiled rich kid. You are ignored.

Just because I am a 'rich kid' doesn't make my points make any less sense.

Once again, I smell a jealous person.

Underprivileged upbringing much?

[SkinnyPupp]

Just because I am a 'rich kid' doesn't make my points make any less sense.

Once again, I smell a jealous person.

Underprivileged upbringing much?
Arrogant fucking piece of shit much?

[iEatClams]

Arrogant fucking piece of shit much?

+ 1

[iEatClams]

^ i meant towards counterpuncher, not skinny pupp

[goo3]

wait wait ... so does this mean i have to pay hst on skytrain fare?

It depends.. would that deter you from committing crimes in Richmond? I've been hearing a lot about you. :squint:

[misteranswer]

What about used cars, do we still need to pay HST on that (when the first owner already paid HST on it)?

You shouldn't because the car is used. You didn't "add any value" to it. I'm not sure what the situation would be though if it appreciated.

[taylor192]

Just because I am a 'rich kid' doesn't make my points make any less sense.

Once again, I smell a jealous person.

Underprivileged upbringing much?
Your posts make sense, its that they are not valued or respected. Does it feel good to talk to a wall, since no-one is reading your posts after these spoiled brat rants?

You are unwilling or unable to discuss the situation from any other perspective than a spoiled kid who's family has money yet he has no clue how they earned it.

I had a great upbringing, my parents ran many businesses and made millions. The difference between me and you is that my parents taught me the business and the value of money and hard work.

I would never consider undertipping a hard working person just cause I didn't want to pay a few $$$ more, especially when I can afford it. If you cannot afford it, sure, yet don't come on here quoting family money and huge pay raises, then not expect to be called a fucktard when you act like a cheap-ass.

[taylor192]

You shouldn't because the car is used. You didn't "add any value" to it. I'm not sure what the situation would be though if it appreciated.

"shouldn't" isn't the same as "won't". I suspect the HST is not a "value added tax" and is just a sales tax so it'll apply to all used items (excluding homes).

[SkinnyPupp]

I'm pretty sure it's going to include homes

[CounterPuncher]

Your posts make sense, its that they are not valued or respected. Does it feel good to talk to a wall, since no-one is reading your posts after these spoiled brat rants?

You are unwilling or unable to discuss the situation from any other perspective than a spoiled kid who's family has money yet he has no clue how they earned it.

I had a great upbringing, my parents ran many businesses and made millions. The difference between me and you is that my parents taught me the business and the value of money and hard work.

I would never consider undertipping a hard working person just cause I didn't want to pay a few $$$ more, especially when I can afford it. If you cannot afford it, sure, yet don't come on here quoting family money and huge pay raises, then not expect to be called a fucktard when you act like a cheap-ass.

Why do you seem to have the opinion that I have no respect for how money is made and earned? So please stop accosting me for that as you don't know me, don't know what I do.

I'm looking at this HST from a perspective that does not benefit me because I think that I can live with paying more tax as a business, where as more individuals can't.

From my perspective I probably want the HST, because in the long run it will cut costs for me and I will probably stand to make more money by it than it will cost me.

However, I'm worried about the people that are already on the brink because costs are too high here.

So please do me a favor, don't tell me I don't appreciate money, not respect how it is earned. Because frankly that doesn't have a lot to do with the issue at hand.

And it's not that I'm out to fuck waiters/waitresses, I just think going out here costs to much, service is generally not that great, and I've always tipped 15% regardless and I'm pretty much getting sick of it.

[CounterPuncher]

I'm pretty sure it's going to include homes

Yes it does, they expect housing sales to surge before July 1st next year.

[taylor192]

I'm pretty sure it's going to include homes

Sorry I should have been more clear: used homes. Its in the link I posted.

[taylor192]

Why do you seem to have the opinion that I have no respect for how money is made and earned? So please stop accosting me for that as you don't know me, don't know what I do.
When you stop making blanket statements about "50% of my dad's money goes to supporting you welfare bums". Until then, you're a spoiled shit not to be respected.


I'm looking at this HST from a perspective that does not benefit me because I think that I can live with paying more tax as a business, where as more individuals can't.
Yet you fail to see how this tax will promote more business, allowing companies to hire more and pay more.


From my perspective I probably want the HST, because in the long run it will cut costs for me and I will probably stand to make more money by it than it will cost me.
Cause like the spoiled brat you are you wouldn't pass the savings along to your consumer or invest in more infrastructure or employees.

However, I'm worried about the people that are already on the brink because costs are too high here.
I'm not. When the average middle class family can afford a flat screen TV and several laptops, there's little to worry about.

The problem with the middle class is their unwillingness to save. Follow the tax rates historically, even compared to 10 years ago we pay much less tax and have more disposal income.

You wouldn't know this, cause you're some stupid over-educated spoiled brat who think he knows everything from taking a few courses at private school.

So please do me a favor, don't tell me I don't appreciate money, not respect how it is earned. Because frankly that doesn't have a lot to do with the issue at hand.
I don't need to tell you that, you told us all that with your attitude and posting. I'm just merely pointing out for reference.

And it's not that I'm out to fuck waiters/waitresses, I just think going out here costs to much, service is generally not that great, and I've always tipped 15% regardless and I'm pretty much getting sick of it.
That's not what you said earlier. So either you exaggerate to make a point, in which case your points are worth exactly that, or you really feel tat way and are back tracing right now, which is more likely. In either case, you're an idiot.

[CounterPuncher]

When you stop making blanket statements about "50% of my dad's money goes to supporting you welfare bums". Until then, you're a spoiled shit not to be respected.


Yet you fail to see how this tax will promote more business, allowing companies to hire more and pay more.


Cause like the spoiled brat you are you wouldn't pass the savings along to your consumer or invest in more infrastructure or employees.


I'm not. When the average middle class family can afford a flat screen TV and several laptops, there's little to worry about.

The problem with the middle class is their unwillingness to save. Follow the tax rates historically, even compared to 10 years ago we pay much less tax and have more disposal income.

You wouldn't know this, cause you're some stupid over-educated spoiled brat who think he knows everything from taking a few courses at private school.


I don't need to tell you that, you told us all that with your attitude and posting. I'm just merely pointing out for reference.


That's not what you said earlier. So either you exaggerate to make a point, in which case your points are worth exactly that, or you really feel tat way and are back tracing right now, which is more likely. In either case, you're an idiot.

And you seem to come off as a morally superior anti-christ.

My points are equally as valid as yours, and if you think that I'm the only person that wouldn't pass on cost savings look at the recent reports from the maritimes that stated that only that implementing the HST only resulted in a 1% price decrease.

So please, tell me how it feels up on that pedestal of yours.

[taylor192]

And you seem to come off as a morally superior anti-christ.
and? I'll take that anyday over a disrespected spoiled brat.

My points are equally as valid as yours, and if you think that I'm the only person that wouldn't pass on cost savings look at the recent reports from the maritimes that stated that only that implementing the HST only resulted in a 1% price decrease.
OK you've done 1/2 your homework, now figure out how many companies hired more people, increased wages, or invested in more infrastructure vs the number of companies tat just lined their pockets and boosted their stock price.

So please, tell me how it feels up on that pedestal of yours.
Its a nice view, how do you feel knowing no-one will respect your opinion from now on?

[RFlush]

Thanks for confirming your status as a spoiled rich kid. You are ignored.

Why do you state that he is "ignored" if you continue to reply to CounterPuncher?

[misteranswer]

"shouldn't" isn't the same as "won't". I suspect the HST is not a "value added tax" and is just a sales tax so it'll apply to all used items (excluding homes).

If a business can get a refund on the GST they paid, it's a value added tax.

[taylor192]

Why do you state that he is "ignored" if you continue to reply to CounterPuncher?
I had him on ignore, yet took him off cause his recent replies are less like a spoiled brat and more intelligent.

[Great68]

"shouldn't" isn't the same as "won't". I suspect the HST is not a "value added tax" and is just a sales tax so it'll apply to all used items (excluding homes).

Future news story, July 1st 2010:

"Today the controversial HST came into effect..."

.
.
.

"In other news, the number of goods and services sold "under the table" and/or on the black market skyrocketed today"

[taylor192]

Future news story, July 1st 2010:

"Today the controversial HST came into effect..."

.
.
.

"In other news, the number of goods and services sold "under the table" and/or on the black market skyrocketed today"

Just like all restaurants went out of business when cities implemented no-smoking bylaws. :rolleyes:

I can already find businesses/contractors willing to work for "cash" to avoid taxes, I suspect it won't change much with the HST.

The CRA has already started to crack down on eBay to charge people running a business and not declaring it.

[iEatClams]

While many negative things are being said about the HST, empirical evidence in 130 jurisdictions in the world that have switched to consumption taxes shows overall prices paid by consumers have gone down.

source:



HST is a fair tax needed to boost B.C.'s economy


The Daily News September 8, 2009

With the coastal forest industry facing no end to the economic downturn in the U.S. and Japanese housing markets and the ongoing worldwide financial crisis, the introduction of the harmonized sales tax provides a much-needed boost to an industry that is a key driver of the provincial economy.

At a time when coastal mills are operating at only 50% capacity, logging operations are running at 25% and revenue to the Crown is down by 75%, the HST will help position the forest industry positively when the global economy recovers.

Setting the stage for increased competitiveness, the HST encourages investment, drives increased productivity and provides job security for high-paid workers in this sector.

Under the current tax system, forest companies pay PST on everything from energy to transportation to supplies and equipment. When the new tax regime is introduced forest products manufacturers will recover the PST they now pay. The cost of producing forest products will go down, making the coastal forest industry more competitive in very cost-sensitive markets around the world.

While many negative things are being said about the HST, empirical evidence in 130 jurisdictions in the world that have switched to consumption taxes shows overall prices paid by consumers have gone down.

The facts also clearly indicate the HST will stimulate investment in our province because companies invest savings.

But most importantly, evidence in other countries and provinces with similar tax structures shows the HST leads to higher wages and a higher standard of living.

For the coastal forest industry it will mean more jobs for those forest and mill workers in communities up and down the coast, and it will strengthen an industry which supports hospitals, schools and other important public services.

The HST is a fair tax policy that will build a strong economy for British Columbia.

Rick Jeffery

Coast Forest Products Association

Vancouver

© Copyright (c) Canwest News Service




http://www.canada.com/fair+needed+boost+economy/1971612/story.html

[B-DiZzLe]

I had him on ignore, yet took him off cause his recent replies are less like a spoiled brat and more intelligent.


But you had him on ignore so how do you know his recent replies were less like a spoiled brat and more intelligent if he was on ignore?

[taylor192]

While many negative things are being said about the HST, empirical evidence in 130 jurisdictions in the world that have switched to consumption taxes shows overall prices paid by consumers have gone down.

The danger is becoming a European society where consumption taxes can be very high on luxury goods. Look at how much tax there is on new cars in Europe/Asia, and how the tax scales with engine size.

[ravsandhu]

In the end an HST tax is better than an income tax increase.

It's a tax based on consumption, you choose to spend, you get taxed.

Income tax gets increased and we won't even have that choice.

I hate the HST but it is a better economic policy.

[skyxx]

^ Same with property tax. Can't do much about that either.

[Black SC2]

Bullshit, high-income individuals pay little to no tax. Why else would you hear about all those rich folk getting in shit for not paying their taxes?

Bullshit on your Bullshit. My exes dad paid nearly $100k each year in personal taxes, you tell me why he should contribute more to the province/ federal government. I bitch about taxes as much as the next guy, but I'm not ignorant enough to think the rich don't contribute more than I do, and nor should you be.

[iEatClams]

^^ that's an obvious one. I think everyone on here knows Mickz is totally wrong.

The top 10% of earners pay over 50% of the total tax.

the bottom 50% of income earners pay something like 5% of the overal tax.

I've seen someone pay $1.6 million dollars in income tax to the CRA last year. The majority of the population will make that much . . their whole life.

[hotjoint]

the news said last night that icbc is looking into the hst and might make us pay more then we already do for insurance... FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

[taylor192]

In the end an HST tax is better than an income tax increase.

It's a tax based on consumption, you choose to spend, you get taxed.

Income tax gets increased and we won't even have that choice.

I hate the HST but it is a better economic policy.
+1 :thumbsup:

I hate discussions my old coworkers who were Liberal/NDP (left) supporters. They would constantly berate me on Conservative policy that cut social spending. I would always argue they aren't paying their fair share, they demand more social services yet want others to pay for them, ie: I made 50% more than them, yet paid 90% more in taxes.

Income taxes are at the lowest in a couple decades, yet people still don't save and spend it on flat screen TVs, leasing luxury cars, and eating out - all while demanding more services and less taxes. If consumption taxes change this, its for the better.

[Tapioca]

taylor192 is right - if people are complaining about a consumption tax increase, then perhaps they should save more? In fact, I'm surprised that he's so Keynesian about economic policy since, you know, that went out of fashion in the 1970s.

If politicians had to consult the general public on every decsion they made, nothing would ever get done because for the most part, the general public is largely ignorant of the complexities of economic and social policies. For an example of the public's ignorance, we only need to look at what's happening in the States with their health care debate that has been hijacked by a bunch of buffoons who are comparing revised health insurance schemes to Hitler's policies.

If I had been a fly on the wall in the offices of the economists working in BC's Finance Ministry for the last several years, I would have probably seen countless briefing notes urging the Cabinet to implement the HST. I'll say it again - the best decisions are seldom the most popular.

[goo3]

If politicians had to consult the general public on every decsion they made, nothing would ever get done because for the most part, the general public is largely ignorant of the complexities of economic and social policies. For an example of the public's ignorance, we only need to look at what's happening in the States with their health care debate that has been hijacked by a bunch of buffoons who are comparing revised health insurance schemes to Hitler's policies.


That's largely true, but it's also healthy to have some sort of buy in from the public since they are such a large stakeholder. The problem is that it's not easy to do, you're right, because of the buffoons who always come out. One big upside to the health care debate in the US is that the public overall is a lot more informed than they would have been had this debate not taken place. A less ignorant public is always good since they're the ones who vote. Too bad the culture in politics is usually so corrupt? narrow-minded? power hungry? I don't know what to call it.

[Great68]

If the Liberals were so absolutely confident in the HST, why didn't they announce their plans to implement it in their campaign before the last election?

[SkinnyPupp]

If the Liberals were so absolutely confident in the HST, why didn't they announce their plans to implement it in their campaign before the last election?
Pretty smart of them, IMO. Look at all the ignorant overreactions to this. Had they announced it before, we'd be stuck with the fucking NDP probably.

[Chuck Norris]

Fuck the PST
Fuck the GST
Fuck the HST
Fuck property tax
Fuck MSP
Fuck Income Tax (which was suppose to be a temporary tax anyway)
Fuck Carbon Tax


The thing is, it's only going to get worse and there is no way around it. You can vote for any person you like, you can complain all you want, in the end, it's all going to be the same. The plan is to slide taxes in left right and center so that YOU are someone else's bitch

/rant

[taylor192]

Fuck the PST
Fuck the GST
Fuck the HST
Fuck property tax
Fuck MSP
Fuck Income Tax (which was suppose to be a temporary tax anyway)
Fuck Carbon Tax


The thing is, it's only going to get worse and there is no way around it. You can vote for any person you like, you can complain all you want, in the end, it's all going to be the same. The plan is to slide taxes in left right and center so that YOU are someone else's bitch

/rant
Income tax is at decade lows.

GST, HST, and carbon tax are consumption taxes. You should pay for what you use, and that's not just the sale price. You should pay all environment, health, admin, disposal, ... costs associated with that item.

Property tax pays for infrastructure, if you want to avoid it, there's lots of shacks in the woods.

MSP is paid by many employers, mine does. If you want to avoid paying it, get a better job. Its cheap coverage, lookup how much it'll cost you in the US.

Basically you don't want to pay tax, yet you want roads, hospitals, schools, police, ... sorry to tell you, it doesn't work that way.

[Tim Budong]

Fuck the PST



The thing is, it's only going to get worse and there is no way around it. You can vote for any person you like, you can complain all you want, in the end, it's all going to be the same. The plan is to slide taxes in left right and center so that YOU are someone else's bitch

/rant

Speaking on the voting, honestly speaking how many people actually saw a FIRM platform the political parties are really fighting for, and if you did, how many people actually agreed with the ideologies/platforms of the liberals or the NDP. If you were to listen to the chinese radio/tv for debates, they have a bit of trouble explaining this to the community.

the voting turnout for hte last provincial election was horrible.

I have a buddy that works for the gov't in Victoria, and he has stated, even tho the facts and numbers are true, that it will help the economy grow, the short term effects of this will hurt ALOT of people. sadly, the truth is, international business persons that work outside of Vancouver will spend their money here regardless because THEY have the money. its the HONEST citizens of the city that are going to suffer short term, and partially be saved in the long run by outside money paying for the HST.

truth be told, IF infact, this was policy was given to the public before any decisions were made in victoria, the HST would not been initialized and put to action as quickly as this would and quite possibly another election would be looming

[hotjoint]

like I said before, we're fucked and there's nothing we can do about it. Just have to suck it up

[iEatClams]

Pretty smart of them, IMO. Look at all the ignorant overreactions to this. Had they announced it before, we'd be stuck with the fucking NDP probably.

+ 1

[Tim Budong]

Pretty smart of them, IMO. Look at all the ignorant overreactions to this. Had they announced it before, we'd be stuck with the fucking NDP probably.

Both parties ran with no platform, or to some citizens, some very confusing theories. Then theres the people who just live here and dont give a shit and swollow EVERYTHING the Gov't throws at them.

[Soundy]

Just like all restaurants went out of business when cities implemented no-smoking bylaws. :rolleyes:

I can already find businesses/contractors willing to work for "cash" to avoid taxes, I suspect it won't change much with the HST.

Someone made a good point on this the other day on the radio: if you go with an "under the table" contractor, don't expect any warranty or after-the-job support. Don't be surprised if the guy takes the cash and bolts. And don't expect you can take the guy to court if you agreed to have him do the job under the table - it would require admitting you were trying to do an end-run around the tax man and is guaranteed to win you an audit.

Consumer support for the underground economy will always be spotty, because there's no support for the consumer in it.