[StylinRed]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8257301.stm

Amidst news of Israel refusing to halt further "settlements" (occupation) into Palestinian lands comes news of the UN finding Israel to be responsible of War Crimes and more
I dunno how this is buried in the news on the BBC, and only appears at the bottom of the screen on CNN but:

excerpts: go to link to watch a video and read the full article


There is evidence that both Israeli and Palestinian forces committed war crimes in the recent conflict in Gaza, a long-awaited official UN report says.

It accuses Israel of deliberately using "disproportionate force" in the three-week operation in December and January.

The report also condemned rocket attacks by Palestinian groups which Israel says sparked its offensive.

Palestinians and human rights groups say more than 1,400 Gazans were killed, but Israel puts the figure at 1,166.

Three Israeli civilians and 10 Israeli soldiers were also killed...


...The investigation, led by South African judge Richard Goldstone, found evidence "indicating serious violations of international human rights and humanitarian law were committed by Israel during the Gaza conflict", a UN statement said.


...Israel also "committed actions amounting to war crimes, and possibly crimes against humanity".

The Israeli operations, the document states, "were carefully planned in all their phases as a deliberately disproportionate attack designed to punish, humiliate and terrorise a civilian population".


...Israel's interrogation of political activists and repression of criticism of its activities had "contributed significantly to a political climate in which dissent was not tolerated", it said.


...The Israeli military insists troops acted lawfully during the conflict.

...Israel, refused to co-operate with the UN fact-finding team.


...Eight months after the conflict, very little reconstruction has taken place in Gaza because of the strict Israeli-imposed blockade which bans all but essential supplies from entering the enclave.



Now before you go on a tangent at me for just including Israel in the title instead of including palestinian forces you will need to watch the Video by Judge Goldstone and the reaction from Israel (Judge Goldstone in the video just mentions Israel at the beginning and Israel finds the findings to be one-sided) also on the CNN bulletin reel they also just mention Israel

[tool001]

every country , at one time or another committed war crimes. however, only the ones US wishes to go after gets punished. end of story

[Meowjin]

fuck zionism.

[cococly]

As long as they do not invade Iran :)

[m4k4v4li]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_OX_jCbNwlU4/SYDK1J-mlsI/AAAAAAAABGk/NYuYdmTCsMY/s400/palestinian+loss+of+land.bmp

[dna82]

1) don't fight a war if you're gonna lose.

2) both sides committed war crimes.

3) nobody cares about war crimes.

[liu13]

all is fair in love and war

[StylinRed]

2) both sides committed war crimes.


you can't really compare some aimless shells dropping on occupied land with what israel comitted

I'm pretty sure Judge Goldstone just added that in to appease the massive supporters of Israel (USA)

[dna82]

you can't really compare some aimless shells dropping on occupied land with what israel comitted

I'm pretty sure Judge Goldstone just added that in to appease the massive supporters of Israel (USA)

arguing 'disproportionate force' is another way of saying, sore loser.

[StylinRed]

The ones arguing disproportionate force, crimes against humanity, war crimes, opression of their own people are not the "losers" but the United Nations

"sore losers" isn't an accurate description at all of the Palestinians considering the victims are opressed citizenry who have nowhere to go to escape the violence not even surrounding countries and they have phosphorus rounds melting through their body and being used as human shields for the Israeli army etc etc etc


you would think the Jews would have more sense and care when it comes to this (considering the holocaust) yet it just seems like they're using what happened to them in the holocaust against other ppl (i guess they didn't have an issue with the tactics used by the Nazis they just didn't like to be the victims)

[dna82]

The ones arguing disproportionate force, crimes against humanity, war crimes, opression of their own people are not the "losers" but the United Nations

"sore losers" isn't an accurate description at all of the Palestinians considering the victims are opressed citizenry who have nowhere to go to escape the violence not even surrounding countries and they have phosphorus rounds melting through their body and being used as human shields for the Israeli army etc etc etc


you would think the Jews would have more sense and care when it comes to this (considering the holocaust) yet it just seems like they're using what happened to them in the holocaust against other ppl (i guess they didn't have an issue with the tactics used by the Nazis they just didn't like to be the victims)
again.
arguing 'disproportionate force' is another way of saying, sore loser.

party A attacks party B.
party B smashes party A.
party A says party B hits too hard and therefore, should be punished through party C.

does that even make any sense to you?

The UN? geezes, can't think of a more castrated and gutless organization.

[StylinRed]

Party A didn't attack first

Party B was picking off Party A leaders after a "truce" so then

Party A started throwing shells into occupied settlements

Party B said Hey u started it (fingers crossed) and destroys Party A targetting civillians mainly

[dna82]

Party A didn't attack first

*groan*

and that ladies and gentlemen is why there will be no peace in the middle east.

the other guy started it first. always.

[StylinRed]

you can't ignore the truth their leaders were being picked off by Israel along with other bs

Israel and its ally (usa) just doesn't want themselves to look even more evil then they are by looking like the so called 'victim'

you should be directing your last comment at yourself ;)

[dna82]

you can't ignore the truth their leaders were being picked off by Israel along with other bs

Israel and its ally (usa) just doesn't want themselves to look even more evil then they are by looking like the so called 'victim'

you should be directing your last comment at yourself ;)

On 20 December, Hamas officially announced that they would not be extending the cease-fire, which had expired on 19 December, citing Israeli border closures as the primary reason, and resumed its shelling of the western Negev. The IDF initially maintained what it called a "wait-and-see" policy afterward. Hamas blamed Israel for the end of the ceasefire. It stated that the Israelis had not respected the terms, which Hamas defined as the lifting of the blockade and a complete ban of military incursions into Gaza

no 'leaders' were killed, only 6 grunts.

'disproportionate force' = sore loser

just because you can't afford the fancy weapons, doesn't mean they can't be used.

[dna82]

see, if i really really really wanted to be as irrational as yourself. I go along and say
well 'party A did attack first because they kidnapped XXX'

then you'd find some other way to justify kidnappings and try to say they only did it because the israelis did XXX first etc etc etc.

and it will never end.

so i'm going to opt out of that sticky mess and go with what's good.

don't pick a fight you can't win.

[StylinRed]

The six-month cease-fire started coming apart at the beginning of November after Israeli commandos killed a team of Hamas fighters during a raid on a tunnel they suspected was being dug for the kidnapping of Israeli soldiers. That raid set off more Palestinian rocketing, which prompted further Israeli attacks. All this prompted Hamas to declare that it wouldn't extend the cease-fire unless Israel lifted its punishing siege of the Gaza Strip, which was imposed after the militant group Hamas was elected to power nearly three years ago.

But Israel, unwilling to grant Hamas any concessions, kept the siege on, so the rocketing increased, and in turn, Israel killed more Gazan fighters, feeding the violent cycle. The Hamas rockets rarely hit anybody, but did terrorize many Israelis and enrage the whole country.
http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/world/2008/12/30/why-the-gaza-war-between-israel-and-hamas-broke-out-now.html

there's a whole list of actions that Israel has done besides that (such as the murdering of Hamas leaders 14 year old daughter, bulldozing of houses etc etc etc)

didn't bother finding government sources or more sources of the other attacks for u as it shouldnt be necessary



as for the "suspected kidnapping tunnel" that's just bs... the last time before that incident that there was a "suspected kidnapping" was 2006 (you can check out the israeli govt. website for that http://www.mfa.gov.il/ ), that tunnel btw is said to be used to transport medicine and food into the deprived city


but fine ill play the same game as you "you're irrational and don't want to see the truth so we'll end it here cuz you clearly lost and we can keep going back and picking out instances of incursions until the beginning when we find Israel sparking conflicts and assasinations against British Lords that led to the British creating Israel"

[dna82]

http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/world/2008/12/30/why-the-gaza-war-between-israel-and-hamas-broke-out-now.html

there's a whole list of actions that Israel has done besides that (such as the murdering of Hamas leaders 14 year old daughter, bulldozing of houses etc etc etc)

didn't bother finding government sources or more sources of the other attacks for u as it shouldnt be necessary



as for the "suspected kidnapping tunnel" that's just bs... the last time before that incident that there was a "suspected kidnapping" was 2006 (you can check out the israeli govt. website for that http://www.mfa.gov.il/ ), that tunnel btw is said to be used to transport medicine and food into the deprived city


but fine ill play the same game as you "you're irrational and don't want to see the truth so we'll end it here cuz you clearly lost and we can keep going back and picking out instances of incursions until the beginning when we find Israel sparking conflicts and assasinations against British Lords that led to the British creating Israel"

*yawn*
i can do this all day http://lmgtfy.com/?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.omdurman.org%2Fwarcrime.html

but i won't because well, you still can't grasp the very simple and basic concept as

don't pick a fight you can't win

[StylinRed]

thanks you lost, gg pick another game to play

a *yawn* to evidence that you're wrong on who started it is pathetic... a man would have admitted he was wrong and moved on

instead you chose to ignore everything and repeat your false statement of "don't pick a fight you can't win"

sad


edit: also this isn't a matter of Hamas losing that battle or who started it, its the fact that Israel resorted to crimes against humanity.
if crimes against humanity is fine with you, i better not see you bitching if/when Iran launches all its weapons onto Israel

[dna82]

thanks you lost, gg pick another game to play

a *yawn* to evidence that you're wrong on who started it is pathetic... a man would have admitted he was wrong and moved on

instead you chose to ignore everything and repeat your false statement of "don't pick a fight you can't win"

sad


edit: also this isn't a matter of Hamas losing that battle or who started it, its the fact that Israel resorted to crimes against humanity.
if crimes against humanity is fine with you, i better not see you bitching if/when Iran launches all its weapons onto Israel

man, you are slow.
"don't pick a fight you can't win"
does not apply to OUR conversation, as YOU and ME
but to the current israeli/palestinian conflict.

if you weren't so short sighted you would've picked up on this vibe from the first post.

likewise, if you were paying attention to my posts you'd be able to understand.

War Crimes, nobody cares, Israelis, Palestinians all committed them.
UN, castrated and toothless.
Israel is the strongest military force in the middle east, a rag tag group of terrorists isn't going to topple them. so what have we learned today?

"don't pick a fight you can't win"

i'm going to add this in because i understand you're kind of slow.
you don't pick a fight you can't win because it creates alot of unnecessary pain and suffering.

THE END.

[StylinRed]

WTF was comparing "don't pick a fight you can't win" to YOU N ME?? jesus christ

i was pointing out the Palestinians didn't PICK the fight thats what our whole exchange was, who picked the fight

[dna82]

WTF was comparing "fon't pick a fight you can't win" to YOU N ME?? jesus christ

i was pointing out the Palestinians didn't PICK the fight

see thus we return to you irrationality, you'll argue in a series of events eventually with ' he did it first '. which, honestly doesn't matter. why? because the fact of the matter is

israel has a superior military force, and a rag tag bunch of terrorists will never topple them.

see you started out with the article, I pointed out both sides are accused of war crimes.
I pointed out 'disproportionate force' is merely a screen for the word 'sore loser'
and then you randomly go on about Palestians being victims of everybody and continue to draw the conversation into a 'he started it first' scenario.

to sum it up. it's the past, get over it.

[StylinRed]

Lol the fact that you call it "sore losers" is incorrect

they aren't terrorists... they're fighting against an occupying force (you have to resist its human nature, u cant just bend over and say give it to me)

and the war crimes is about israel directing its attacks against the civilian population, they can't be "sore losers" because they AREN'T FIGHTERS

you're the one who started the who started it first, by your "party A attacks party B"

jesus christ do you even know what you typed previously... or do you just keep spitting out garbage hoping it will all fit

[dna82]

Lol the fact that you call it "sore losers" is incorrect

they aren't terrorists... they're fighting against an occupying force (you have to resist its human nature, u cant just bend over and say give it to me)

and the war crimes is about israel directing its attacks against the civilian population, they can't be "sore losers" because they AREN'T FIGHTERS

you're the one who started the who started it first, by your "party A attacks party B"

jesus christ do you even know what you typed previously... or do you just keep spitting out garbage hoping it will all fit

ohh geezesssss so Hamas is not a terrorist organization?
peace out, that one did it for me, i am arguing with a child.

[StylinRed]

ahahahahaha i knew that would give you your opening to run from your defeat ;)
gj ignoring everything tangible and posting comments that didn't fit hoping over time you could pick and choose from your posts to create a coherent argument too bad it was a losing battle from the start



But seriously for a moment, im going to assume in your view everything is game during war (since u have no issues of Israel attacking civilians, categorizing them as fighters by the term 'sore-losers') with that viewpoint suicide bombings by Hamas killing civilians shouldn't be a concern with you either and since they are fighting an occupying force they should be considered "resistance fighters", so you lost due to your own position

So you're retort of 'arguing with a child' was describing yourself as i was using your argument to categorize Hamas as non-terrorists (maybe you should stop replying and begin some inner-reflection)

[91LS-VTak]

were you two sitting on ur computer clicking refresh over and over, just waiting for the other person to reply? seriously

Yeah, Israelis may do some bad things some times, but Hamas aren't angels either. It's a two-way street.

[falcon]

every country , at one time or another committed war crimes. however, only the ones US wishes to go after gets punished. end of story

yet the US of A has the worst track record when it comes to war crimes.

call it a "war on terror" and you get away with anything.

we can thank the media brainwash for that.

[StylinRed]

were you two sitting on ur computer clicking refresh over and over, just waiting for the other person to reply? seriously


rofl yes :blushsmile:


but now its time for bed :/

[Sid Vicious]

yet the US of A has the worst track record when it comes to war crimes.

call it a "war on terror" and you get away with anything.

we can thank the media brainwash for that.

http://memegenerator.net/Thumbnails/95/200x218_Cool-Dog-Youre-a-fucking-idiot-.jpg

[WakeMeUp]

the palestinians don't give a fuck about humanity anyways. How do you fight a people who don't respect life, or personal freedoms anyways? How about if you're 5 million vs a billion next door?

[91LS-VTak]

http://memegenerator.net/Thumbnails/95/200x218_Cool-Dog-Youre-a-fucking-idiot-.jpg

That's one smart-lookin' dog!

[StylinRed]

the palestinians don't give a fuck about humanity anyways. How do you fight a people who don't respect life, or personal freedoms anyways? How about if you're 5 million vs a billion next door?


http://memegenerator.net/Thumbnails/95/200x218_Cool-Dog-Youre-a-fucking-idiot-.jpg

Sids post works more than once

[91LS-VTak]

the palestinians don't give a fuck about humanity anyways. How do you fight a people who don't respect life, or personal freedoms anyways? How about if you're 5 million vs a billion next door?

Are you basing these statements on how all your Palestinian friends behave? Or on ur trips to the Middle East to observe these freedom-haters? Or are you just being an ignorant fool?

Ding ding ding, it's option number 3. Please WakeMeUp when you have something intelligent to add.

[Noir]

you can't really compare some aimless shells dropping on occupied land with what israel comitted

He's right you know. The disproportioinate force is not the result of mercy from the side of Palestinians. I'm sure if the Palestinians had the same militaristic resources Israel has, they would've been employed by them.

He also does have a point that the argument is moot. Each and every argument of who was committed crimes to whom, and who threw the first rock, can equally go back and forth.

[rslater]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8257301.stm
Now before you go on a tangent at me for just including Israel in the title instead of including palestinian forces you will need to watch the Video by Judge Goldstone and the reaction from Israel (Judge Goldstone in the video just mentions Israel at the beginning and Israel finds the findings to be one-sided) also on the CNN bulletin reel they also just mention Israel

This is exactly what's wrong with someone like you providing information. You take an article and a video, you comprehend beyond what you see, which is good, except that your title is misleading which you acknowledge, and yet because you find two sources that omit this information, you feel as if you do nothing wrong in sensationlizing the story.

I listen to people who provide unbiased information, and you just admited to being biased. Just because two sources say one thing, it should't give you the right to ignore the facts when the source of all the articles on the internet come from the Judges report which explains that both sides committed these war crimes.

Next time, read the 535 page dissertation, and then provide the facts.

[StylinRed]

Well the whole tirade started because he wanted to make it seem like the Palestinians were the agressors by pointing out that they broke the truce, which wasn't true.

Your back-&-forth about who did what would only make sense if we were talking about the whole middle-eastern mess as a whole and even then you can go back far enough with documented crimes to see who started it all (but thats for another thread)

Also he's ignoring the point of the thread which are all the war crimes, even if he wishes to discredit "disproportionate force" (he didn't lead his remarks in this way he just discredited the whole thing and blamed the Palestinians) he can't ignore the crimes against humanity and the opression of Israelis who were against the acts of their own nation.

You can't discredit disproportionate force with "well if they had those capabilities they would do the same" that's an impossible statement to prove or discredit, you can just remark on what's actually happened.





edit: RSlater i have no issue with you having issue with my thread title, it was used to draw more attention to the thread. (my so called disclaimer was an attempt to keep the flaming about the thread title down)

[m!chael]

Lol the fact that you call it "sore losers" is incorrect

they aren't terrorists... they're fighting against an occupying force (you have to resist its human nature, u cant just bend over and say give it to me)

and the war crimes is about israel directing its attacks against the civilian population, they can't be "sore losers" because they AREN'T FIGHTERS

you're the one who started the who started it first, by your "party A attacks party B"

jesus christ do you even know what you typed previously... or do you just keep spitting out garbage hoping it will all fit

I don't really want to get into this because the other guy is doing a really good job.

But, there's no occupying force in Gaza. Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005. Following that Hamas, a terrorist organization, was elected to represent the people. Following THAT, thousand's of rockets were shot into Israel from Gaza by Hamas. Israel decided to blockade Gaza, but only to deter it from sending rockets over. Which it continued to do. Once Israelis had enough, operation cast lead began. During which Hamas fighters hid in civilian homes, Had snipers positoned on top of mosques (Those are holy places for god sake), and used human shields.

Another question to ponder over. Egypt has basically blockaded Gaza as well, why doesn't Hamas shoot rockets over there daily.

[StylinRed]

The other guy sucked thats why he ran away ;)

but what you're doing now is ignoring everything israel has done and just mentioning what hamas has done... so of course with that viewpoint you'd be correct

i won't "argue" with anyone who refuses to see the wrongs of both sides and admit what sparked it all (even if you want to go back decades)

but i will answer your last question/remark? Hamas doesn't rocket Egypt because Egypt hasn't uprooted their homes, Egypt doesn't attack and kill their children, Egypt doesn't build a wall around them and cut power off whenever they wish, Egypt doesn't etc etc etc etc

[WakeMeUp]

Are you basing these statements on how all your Palestinian friends behave? Or on ur trips to the Middle East to observe these freedom-haters? Or are you just being an ignorant fool?

Ding ding ding, it's option number 3. Please WakeMeUp when you have something intelligent to add.


ah ha... zing...

Step back and look at it as if you know nothing about the situation. Both lay claim to the land, both had a history there. One group was placed there after WWII by a separate party. Both want the land but aside from religious motives, it's just a tiny piece of desert part of a big desert. One group values education, free markets as a means to prosperity and individual freedoms. The other has been an economic mess, allows religion to dictate basic human rights, and doesn't value education. One is part of the developed world, while the other seems to want to destroy the developed world (i'm speaking about other Muslim dominated countries)

It seems that the majority of the Arab world despises Israel. Hence a "billion" comment. Heck, Iran's leader has said he'd like to wipe them off the map. Whether he's serious or not, who knows, but why mess around. Israel is just fighting for it's survival like anyone would.

If you don't agree that's fine... just my view.

[StylinRed]

^^^ as posted before you're a fucking idiot.

[Meowjin]

Both want the land but aside from religious motives, it's just a tiny piece of desert part of a big desert. One group values education, free markets as a means to prosperity and individual freedoms. The other has been an economic mess, allows religion to dictate basic human rights, and doesn't value education. One is part of the developed world, while the other seems to want to destroy the developed world (i'm speaking about other Muslim dominated countries)



oh boy.

[WakeMeUp]

^^^ as posted before you're a fucking idiot.

Funny, i was thinking the same about you. I'll let you get back to your discussion with the other dude now.

[Supafly]

I think we should turn that entire area into a glasspot...then we won't have to hear this bullshit on CNN/BBC all the fucking time.

[dna82]

ahahahahaha i knew that would give you your opening to run from your defeat ;)
gj ignoring everything tangible and posting comments that didn't fit hoping over time you could pick and choose from your posts to create a coherent argument too bad it was a losing battle from the start



But seriously for a moment, im going to assume in your view everything is game during war (since u have no issues of Israel attacking civilians, categorizing them as fighters by the term 'sore-losers') with that viewpoint suicide bombings by Hamas killing civilians shouldn't be a concern with you either and since they are fighting an occupying force they should be considered "resistance fighters", so you lost due to your own position

So you're retort of 'arguing with a child' was describing yourself as i was using your argument to categorize Hamas as non-terrorists (maybe you should stop replying and begin some inner-reflection)

everything is not 'game' during war. but people play by the same rules. If you fight a war without restraint, then you deserve none in return. so, if you're fighting a superior force and decide to use suicide bombers and purposely kill civilians, which is fairly high on the 'without restraint' clause. you really don't have a foot to stand on when, said superior force, bombs you to shit with fighter planes and attack helicopters. no military force would ever purposely target civilians because 1) munitions aren't cheap 2) civilians are worthless to the battle and there is nothing to gain by killing them

likewise, hiding behind civilians to attack, and not expect retaliation, is stupid.
likewise, civilians voting into power people who take them hostage, is stupid.
likewise, you, my child, are stupid.


So you're retort of 'arguing with a child' was describing yourself as i was using your argument to categorize Hamas as non-terrorists


this sentence, makes absolutely no sense.

I don't call you a child out of a whim,
I call you a child because your arguments are immature, irrational, and without careful consideration. You are fixated on 'he started it' and cannot comprehend the situation as a matter of fact.

One more time
the UN is counterproductive.
Israel has superior military might
Palestinians will not get what they want until they remove themselves from the radicalized elements of their culture.
Israel, by all accounts have committed war crimes, likewise Palestinians.
your fixation on one group over the other makes it very clear you are BIAS. You aren't here to learn anything, you're here because you like the sound of your own voice that plays when you read your replies. you are intoxicated by your own arrogance.

this is why you are a child.

[StylinRed]

Sorry DNA but you keep altering your argument ever so slightly that its hopeless to continue

lets say i ignore everything you've already said and just work with what you typed now... as i think thats how you would prefer it since it just gets pathetic if we look back

suicide fighters weren't used during the ceasefire (so that makes no sense to mention), even though israel targeted the family of Hamas leaders during said time (in one instance killing a 14year old girl)

"no military foce would purposefly kill civilians" you must not have been following the Gazan "war" and post-war news? as even Israeli soldiers admitted that everyone was a target "there were no such things as civilians", even the UN found they targeted the civilians.

Hiding behind civilians... thats exactly what Israeli soldiers did.... except they used Palestinian civilians and used them as shields, so reported by palestinians and Israeli Forces

You refuse to see what's going on and will only assume the only ones deserving harm are the Palestinians... you're no different then Wakemeup

You called me a child because of my mentioning Hamas are not terrorists, however you're blind to the fact that i was using you're belief system (although you've changed your mind again in this current message) to describe them so.

Of course im fixated on "he started it" because no1 should stand aside when someone is bullshitting that's how messes begin, that's how you make the masses follow a incorrect belief system, that's why many idiots actually believe the Palestinians 'deserve it' because people stand aside and let people like you bullshit.

Even though you've been proven wrong you just ignore it and continue on like it never happened and just rinse and repeat each reply however has a slight variation from the previous but continues with incorrect spewing of bs.

you call me Bias (i agree i am, i'm of the belief that you can only be on the side of what's right and against those who perpetuate and cause 'evil' against civilians) but you are the same except for the wrong side.


I can understand why m!chael is for the acts of Israel, as he's jewish and must not care about anything except supporting Israel (its like how the mainlanders are for anything China does)
I might be part Jewish too but i can't stand to see injustice, I'm wondering if you dna82 are of the same cloth as M!chael? as that would explain a lot and allow me to cease in my replies.

(even so i still can't see how someone can turn a blind eye to the targetting of civilians, use of weapons that will melt away peoples flesh, grabbing civilians of the people you're attacking and using them as shields, demolishing peoples homes, bombing the United Nations, blocking the Red Cross and independent doctors and american representatives from entering the aftermath)



edit: also throughout all this everyone continues to ignore the findings of Israeli Govt. Oppression of its own citizens who were/are against the acts that the govt. was/is inflicting on the Palestinians.

[dna82]

"no military foce would purposefly kill civilians" you must not have been following the Gazan "war" and post-war news? as even Israeli soldiers admitted that everyone was a target "there were no such things as civilians", even the UN found they targeted the civilians.

you tell people to leave an area, it's gonna get bombed. some people decide to stay in area. they get bombed. wow real fuckin smart.

you tell people, get out of the neighborhood, we're coming in to clean house, everybody that is still in the area will be considered enemy combatants. people stay in the area, people get shot. real fuckin smart. when was the last time you heard of a suicide bomber warning civilians to flee before detonating?

it also doesn't help that Hamas uses their own civilians for cover, purposely mingling in with civilians hoping to draw more civilians deaths, to in turn, blame it on israelis for civilian deaths.

wow, what imaginary belief system are you quoting me on? Hamas is a terrorist organization labeled so by Canada, USA, European Union and pretty much the entirety of the free world. that is hardly *my* belief system.

woo hoo, pulling out the race card. should I even bother with it?
well, just to let you know, so that any perceived racial bias is removed, i am not jewish and i am not white.

Of course im fixated on "he started it" because no1 should stand aside when someone is bullshitting that's how messes begin, that's how you make the masses follow a incorrect belief system, that's why many idiots actually believe the Palestinians 'deserve it' because people stand aside and let people like you bullshit.

so how far back in history do you wanna go? 2thousand? 3thousand years? or maybe just up until the point where you feel comfortable that you can have an edge in this debate? forget about the 'he started it first' bullshit, it's childish and rubbish. work with what you got now.

the solution is so obvious, you just can't see it.
Palestinians need to stop glorifying death and violence. Stop radicalizing their children. And for gods sake stop trying to pick a fight with a 400pound gorilla.

from there, the international community would probably rebuild a Palestinian state. they just need to accept the fact, Israel is not going anywhere.

where was i proven wrong? i will try and clarify it. as for parts I ignore, I don't know which parts specifically, but I can't answer all of your questions without turning this into a wall of text. either that, or your point was so ridiculously stupid, i choose to ignore it out of convenience. that or i think your trolling. which i still think your trolling, but i have extra time on my hands.

[StylinRed]

you tell people to leave an area, it's gonna get bombed. some people decide to stay in area. they get bombed. wow real fuckin smart.


Lol this is soo ridiculous..... do you realize the size of Gaza? do you realize how many people are within its borders? do you realize its one of the most densely packed areas in the world? do you realize the civilians have nowhere to go??

ONLY after international condemnation has Israel given a 3hr-window before bombing after the so called warning... These bombings in which a 3hr window was given happened AFTER the Truce from the Gazan offensive.

Even still where the hell are they going to go??

Again you ignore the fact that Individual soldiers within the Israeli army have said that they were told "there are no such things as civilians"


it also doesn't help that Hamas uses their own civilians for cover, purposely mingling in with civilians hoping to draw more civilians deaths, to in turn, blame it on israelis for civilian deaths.

I agree that doesn't help but Hamas can't exactly be anywhere else (im not condoning their actions but we have to understand it)


wow, what imaginary belief system are you quoting me on? Hamas is a terrorist organization labeled so by Canada, USA, European Union and pretty much the entirety of the free world. that is hardly *my* belief system.

The belief system that you show through you're replies... do we really need to go into circles with previous posts? this just shows you ignore everything (especially when you get stumped) and just continue on in the following posts as if nothing happened.

I see you still didn't understand my comment about Hamas are not terrorists (if you go back you'll see thats not what i believe if you read the reply)

woo hoo, pulling out the race card. should I even bother with it?
well, just to let you know, so that any perceived racial bias is removed, i am not jewish and i am not white.

Im just trying to understand why you're so thick headed, is it due to you're religious beliefs (not race btw) or idiocy or something else.


so how far back in history do you wanna go? 2thousand? 3thousand years? or maybe just up until the point where you feel comfortable that you can have an edge in this debate? forget about the 'he started it first' bullshit, it's childish and rubbish. work with what you got now.

We can go back to exactly when this all started, the decade prior up until the creation of the state of israel (1930s-1948)

Going back 2-3thousand years makes no sense whatsoever.... I have a feeling you don't know the history of the area with that remark of going back thousands of years.


the solution is so obvious, you just can't see it.
Palestinians need to stop glorifying death and violence. Stop radicalizing their children. And for gods sake stop trying to pick a fight with a 400pound gorilla.

from there, the international community would probably rebuild a Palestinian state. they just need to accept the fact, Israel is not going anywhere.

That makes sense... i agree, but even recenty history has proven (though you refuse to see it) is when the Palestinians back down the IDF pokes and prods and even attacks.

So again you refuse to see all the facts before you, just the ones which you find appeases your argument.

Which by the way your argument is moving to the entire problem as a whole instead of what this thread is about... the war crimes against civilians and persecution of israelis by israelis.



edit: just to make it clear im done with this banter, i'll give you the last word, i can see this is a lost cause

[dna82]

okay i'm cutting you off kiddy, again. I know i'm a glutton for punishment.

but it's became painfully obvious you came into this conversation with a set mentality and just like to hear the sound of your own voice.
but as a parting gift I will answer your last set of questions.

1) calling an 'area' not the entire strip that will be bombed. as in. a specific neighborhood will receive calls before an air strike will be carried out. hey, it doesn't guarantee that no civilian causalities will result, but it shows restraint. which is more then I can say for the Palestinians. it's quite easy to 'leave' the area likewise it's probably easy for you to walk out of your house, and AWAY from your neighborhood. but hey, if you happen to walk into another neighborhood getting bombed at the same time, then you are shit out of luck and god hates you. still, restraint is shown. what kind of logic is this? warning an enemy of an imminent attack . ye, try getting the Palestinians to think about showing that much restraint.


2) no, you pulled the racial card and assumed that if I was of Jewish descent, my views would be considered 'typical'. this again, shows how you process information. immature and childish. whether or not I am a Jew does not make what I have to say any more or less relevant.

3) see, your fixation on 'who threw the first stone' is failed logic. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_Land_of_Israel so can i say that because the Jews were there first they get to keep the land? tit for tat.

4) no really, your attempting to justify Hamas as a legitimate army is hilarious. how many more degree's of fail is that? what 'belief system' are you referring to? you are probably using the wrong word to describe something.

5) I agree that doesn't help but Hamas can't exactly be anywhere else (im not condoning their actions but we have to understand it) understand it? what the fuck? If you are a wanted criminal don't fucking invite the neighbors over for tea and crumpets. The militants KNOW they are wanted men and that Israel has and will use missiles to kill you, yet knowing this, they continue to mingle around civilians baiting the Israelis to attack. this isn't an issue or hurp de derp 'I have no where to go so I'm just gonna act like nothings wrong and go to that community BBQ next week' they should be in HIDING preventing their own civilian causalities. but they won't because civilian deaths make Israel look bad and the bleeding hearts love to cry tears for civilians and opens their wallets for donations. you act as if Israeli missiles hit EVERYTHING, EVERYWHERE and there is nowhere to go.

6) I gave you an opportunity to bring any unanswered questions to me, but again, you merely dismiss my request, and then say I'm evading your questions. what 'FACTS' have you brought up that I have not disputed? you do realize, that just because you state your opinion does not make it a FACT.

[WakeMeUp]

Note to Israel: Defend yourself by any means necessary!

[Meowjin]

fuck zionism.