[Timpo]

selling engine flush, fuel system cleaning and transmission flush,
causing engine to die
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pf6KY6rrqYU

here are some old ones if you haven't seen it..
part 1, 2 and 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiCAJ8ULnaI
EZ Lube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VE8aLaoj5n0
Jiffy Lube breaking ignition
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ch57PK2fAL0&feature=fvw

[silk]

this reporter looks like a fag and like a rat too

[LenovoTurbo]

Damn good thing i do most of the maintenance and repairs myself.

[Nvasion]

wow

[alex.w *//]

im not suprised at all actually

[illicitstylz]

so the fuel injector cleaner talked about in the first vid is bad for the car.

this is the same as the STP fuel injector cleaner liquids right?
http://www.stp.com/fuel_scfict.php

never knew these were detrimental..

[impactX]

this reporter looks like a fag and like a rat too

How so?

[ilvtofu]

Whats wrong with a tranny flush?

[Timpo]

so the fuel injector cleaner talked about in the first vid is bad for the car.

this is the same as the STP fuel injector cleaner liquids right?
http://www.stp.com/fuel_scfict.php

never knew these were detrimental..yea STP has terrible reputation.

it contains kerosine(jet fuel), which cleans out the carbon pretty well but also damages the metal really badly.

[Timpo]

Whats wrong with a tranny flush?

looks like something to do with the machine?

[ToyotaPowah]

These places will continue to rip off their customers because the majority of them don't know anything about automobiles. More services performed = more profit. Wait, nevermind.. they said they were taking steps to minimize these problems :haha:

[Mugen EvOlutioN]

shit somebody should sue the manufacture thats producing these detergents. Whether its for your fuel injector or for your engine.

Fuck i used to put in fuel system/injector cleaner every once in awhile



Did a engine fluh when i first got the car



now whats wrong with transmission flush?
i know for manual you dont have to do the flush, simply drain it and top up.

Automatic on the other hand needs a flush which requires roughly 10-12 L of oil in order to completely push out the remaining dirty oil thats trapped in the torque converter. Simply bleeding it will not have the same result


Lordco, canadian tires sells all these detergents....they should be removed from the shelf

[JL9000]

Whats wrong with a tranny flush?
Same reason why you shouldn't flush anything in an older car. Flushing breaks off buildup that clogs openings.

[thumper]

Same reason why you shouldn't flush anything in an older car. Flushing breaks off buildup that clogs openings.

this is what a mechanic said about my old car as well. he told me to drain/fill and leave it alone if it's not doing anything wrong. pretty much have to drop the pan and clean out the screen, etc. afterwards if you still want to do a complete flush otherwise all the crap/buildup will clog up everything :(

[unit]

^does this apply to manual cars too? for the tranny flush that is

[thumper]

^does this apply to manual cars too? for the tranny flush that is


i don't think so. don't quote me on that though.

[Timpo]

this is what a mechanic said about my old car as well. he told me to drain/fill and leave it alone if it's not doing anything wrong. pretty much have to drop the pan and clean out the screen, etc. afterwards if you still want to do a complete flush otherwise all the crap/buildup will clog up everything :(but if you drain the ATF and fill it from the top, there are still old fluid in the lines and torque converter...as soon as you drive it again, you will cross contaminate the new fluid with old one.

I still think complete flush is necessary but I didn't know that machine can hurt the car. Even dealership does the complete flush if you ask them.

[Timpo]

^does this apply to manual cars too? for the tranny flush that is

manual cars aren't like automatic.
all you need to do is open the drain plug and get rid of oil fluid and fill up with the new one.
the MTF is not circulating to torque converter or anything...because it's a manual

[Drift_Monkey]

apparently, I was told not to flush my tranny fluid for the Acura TL.

its recommened to do a drain and fill.
some people had their's flushed and soon their tranny broke down.
And that is for the Automatics I believe.

[Mugen EvOlutioN]

shit
but i thought a lot of dealerships uses machines to flush it out as well during tranny oil change

[tool001]

i think most dealerships also offer engine/transmission flush service.

[Solo_D33A]

"one of the employees we've caught on tape have now been TERMINATED":haha:

[InvisibleSoul]

Service garages being dishonest? Noooooo... can't be.

[godwin]

Most of them do, however not all transmissions are suitable for the flush process.. it depends on the transmission model. Also the age of the transmission, older transmission especially those with lifetime transmission, a lot of the time is held together by the varnish.. if you flush it, it dies.

Ideally the shop one goes to is familiar with the car model and most importantly transmission model and use it only when it is absolutely necessary.

I would akin this to enemas, it might be useful in some cases, but no trained medical professional would give everyone who walk through the door one indiscriminately.

i think most dealerships also offer engine/transmission flush service.

[thumper]

i think most dealerships also offer engine/transmission flush service.

my consipiracy theories are running rampant again... maybe the stealerships are in on it as well.

for example for my vw, the stealerships have "hot oil flush" as part of the service schedule, and is quite expensive, despite the fact my maintenance manual makes no mention that i require it :rolleyes:

[Mugen EvOlutioN]

i think most dealerships also offer engine/transmission flush service.

ya

but how many auto tranny has actually blow up due to flushing it? so far i havent really hear any

[godwin]

There are plenty of examples.. they all have to do with automatic transmissions that have "lifetime" fluids.

It is a damned if you do it, damned if you don't scenario.

The story forget to point out that most people who frequent these places don't care about their cars in the first place. There are so many make and models of cars and obviously the technicians only care about selling the service, it is statistically impossible that failures don't happen.

ya

but how many auto tranny has actually blow up due to flushing it? so far i havent really hear any

[Great68]

ya

but how many auto tranny has actually blow up due to flushing it? so far i havent really hear any

From my experience, about 7 or 8 years ago:

- My dad took car in for service (1989 Oldsmobile Cutlas Calais) to Dennison GM.

- Gets duped for "transmission flush" while it was there. (Car had ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEMS with the transmission prior to flush)

- After flush, transmission exhibits noticeable slippage in higher RPMS, when shifting into 3rd gear.

I do not believe it to be coincidence that perfectly functioning transmission should start slipping and shifting poorly after a transmission flush.

[thumper]

ya

but how many auto tranny has actually blow up due to flushing it? so far i havent really hear any

go to the lexus message boards, search posts about transmissions dying for the rx300 (albeit transmission flushes is only one of several reasons for the total failure.... one of which was the scheduled transmission service interval being too long which lexus later shortened).

[bassistb]

Mr. Lube is no exception

Watch for mr. lube techs ripping you off.

They will always recommend engine flushes and fuel system cleaning.

Watch out!

[Timpo]

Mr. Lube is no exception

Watch for mr. lube techs ripping you off.

They will always recommend engine flushes and fuel system cleaning.

Watch out!
quick answer...

never go to quick oil change places

[bassistb]

quick answer...

never go to quick oil change places

He has the best answer

listen to him!

[124Y]

Wow...i'll bet you these things still goes on in a lot of places

[k20a]

Ah shit. Does anyone know if Mr. Lube scams too? hahaha

[Mugen EvOlutioN]

There are plenty of examples.. they all have to do with automatic transmissions that have "lifetime" fluids.

It is a damned if you do it, damned if you don't scenario.

The story forget to point out that most people who frequent these places don't care about their cars in the first place. There are so many make and models of cars and obviously the technicians only care about selling the service, it is statistically impossible that failures don't happen.

From my experience, about 7 or 8 years ago:

- My dad took car in for service (1989 Oldsmobile Cutlas Calais) to Dennison GM.

- Gets duped for "transmission flush" while it was there. (Car had ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEMS with the transmission prior to flush)

- After flush, transmission exhibits noticeable slippage in higher RPMS, when shifting into 3rd gear.

I do not believe it to be coincidence that perfectly functioning transmission should start slipping and shifting poorly after a transmission flush.



im really really surprised
:eek::eek::eek:
with things like this it should be STICKY worth it that anyone with automatic tranny should be 101% well informed and alert!!!! you would think wow, i havent change my tranny fluid for awhile. Time to treat her better, yet it turns out the opposite! And we all know transmission repairs costs a lotttt if not more than an engine.

I spoke to a mechanic who has been repairing car for roughly 28 years, and he recently bought a flushing machine (does work at his garage now semi retired) and the machine was not cheap!

Logically speaking you would think you want no residude left mixing the oil with new oil right? otherwise whats the point? its like taking a shower and only soap the upper half body and forget the lower part. So i thought wow cool, flushing the tranny SEEMS to be the proper way to do so.


Now im really afraid to tell relatives/parents/friends to change their tranny oil. Question is if we are not suppose to use the flushing machine (which actually costs more! becuz it requires more oil than drain and fill ironically) does that mean when we change out tranny oil it will never be 100% clean? more like 65-70% clean? since you cant get the remaining old oil inside the torque converter without flushing it?


Something this serious should be discussed more, afterall this is a car forum as well as an engine + transmission is basically a heart to a car.

:(:(:(:(

[Klobbersaurus]

ya

but how many auto tranny has actually blow up due to flushing it? so far i havent really hear any

we had a work truck in once, approx 200+ km on it without a flush, fluid was sorta dark, customer wanted it flush, i said no, but what customer wants, less than 12 hours later, the truck is on the hoist and im under it pulling the tranny

usually when you flush, your flushing out the crap that is holding the transmission together

[nabs]

I got fucked by jiffy lube, they screwed up my car and then denied doing anything to it.

they even made me get a tranny flush and everything.

[godwin]

No logically speaking you should do what the engineers who designed the transmission tells you to do, instead of what a shop thinks you should do. The engineers designed the machines, so follow what they recommend.

Automatic transmissions are powered by hydraulic pressure. The problem with flushing is you mess up the pressure, you might wreck the valve, you push debris into clutch packs.. there might not be enough fluid after engine start.. there are tons of potential problems.

eg here is the proper way of changing transmission fluid on a BMW http://www.pelicanparts.com/bmw/techarticles/E36-Tranny_Fluid_Auto/E36-Tranny_Fluid_Auto.htm

It is time consuming that's why shop resort to transmission flusing machines and hope for the best.. places like Jiffy lube etc.. as long as you leave the bay, it is okay.


Logically speaking you would think you want no residude left mixing the oil with new oil right? otherwise whats the point? its like taking a shower and only soap the upper half body and forget the lower part. So i thought wow cool, flushing the tranny SEEMS to be the proper way to do so.

[tofu1413]

Ah shit. Does anyone know if Mr. Lube scams too? hahaha



depends on who's the tech. :thumbsup:

i got in shit for not selling enough.



you know why? cuz lots of the cars dont need it.

[Mugen EvOlutioN]

in a hurry right now, will read article tomorrow


ok so long story short



it is ok to drain and fill on most tranny and be fine with it? leave the resiude and have a 70% new oil in a transmission? :confused: Since thats probably the best way without damaging ur expensive tranny?

[tofu1413]

^ thats how the honda techs do it. simple drain and fill.


even they said tranny flushing isnt healthy for those honda transmissions.

[JL9000]

Now im really afraid to tell relatives/parents/friends to change their tranny oil. Question is if we are not suppose to use the flushing machine (which actually costs more! becuz it requires more oil than drain and fill ironically) does that mean when we change out tranny oil it will never be 100% clean? more like 65-70% clean? since you cant get the remaining old oil inside the torque converter without flushing it?

Unfortunately, businesses will always try to make the most money with the least amount of work.

Now, I believe companies like Honda specify repeated drain + fill for their automatic transmissions. You won't have 100% clean fluid in there but it's good enough. That's what I do for my customers and by the 2nd drain the fluid comes out fairly clean. This is very time consuming though and obviously doesn't make sense to business owners and managers or their typical customers.

[ericthehalfbee]

Those guys doing the reporting are doing just as much harm as the shops they're investigating. What they're saying is:

"Flushes, purges and injector cleaning are useless services and have the potential to seriously damage your vehicle"

when they should be saying:

"You should never do a half-assed job when performing service on your vehicle, especialy when it comes to things like changing tranny fluid...."



The problem is the people performing the work, not the actual work itself. How many people who see this report are going to stop doing fluid changes on their transmission because they think it will blow up?

[Timpo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llDWL65lvN0

[Timpo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsLKNdebB6Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfUJfNljvD8

[Mugen EvOlutioN]

Unfortunately, businesses will always try to make the most money with the least amount of work.

Now, I believe companies like Honda specify repeated drain + fill for their automatic transmissions. You won't have 100% clean fluid in there but it's good enough. That's what I do for my customers and by the 2nd drain the fluid comes out fairly clean. This is very time consuming though and obviously doesn't make sense to business owners and managers or their typical customers.

guess i will stick with that method from now on

[Timpo]

just stick to this..

http://www.ridelust.com/wp-content/uploads/techron-label.jpg

[Gh0stRider]

shiet..i got a engine flush a while ago at mr lube.good thing i dont own the car...return it after the lease.

[Warp9Racing]

I've been working at a dealership for the last 7 years now and never knew about getting proper service for your car.

but now i realize that maitence is important for the longevity of the car. I myself don't sell to many flushes at the front counter however the other service advisors do.
I usally let the techs look the car over first before any recommendations.

However I have seen the other side of the fence where a Hot Oil Flush and FUEL INJECTOR PURGE have fixed cars with rough running issues. And customers telling me the got X km/l more after the purge.

I agree that older cars that have never had servicing, the trans flush for example, I won't recommend because its opening a can of worms. However i have seen vehicles (awd's) that have never done a rear diff service, be drained and have metal filings in it, and the suv's that have them done regularly have no issues.

Its not jiffy lubes etc fault. They are trained to SELL...they often have spiff programs for the Tech and the advisors. you always have the option to say NO.

[Timpo]

shiet..i got a engine flush a while ago at mr lube.good thing i dont own the car...return it after the lease.

Mr.Lube uses Kleen Flo engine flush.

This one in particular does not contain kerosene so that the damage is minimal compare to other ones.
However they charge something like $20 for a flush, and this bottle cost them only $2.49 each.

http://www.kleenflo.com/en/productpages/products/637.gif

[Mugen EvOlutioN]

^

yet ppl still had problem with their engine afterwards tho

[q0192837465]

God, it's always a tough call on trannys.

[Mugen EvOlutioN]

^ hence why i would like to find out

since we dont see a dozen of vehicles breaking down on each intersection

[tofu1413]

^

yet ppl still had problem with their engine afterwards tho



actually, from the year i worked there, engine flushes seemed to only cause one problems there:


leaks.


it for sure cleaned out the sludge, which the sludge inturn, was acting like a sealant for old + bad oil pan gaskets. now it was up to the judgement of the tech to sell it.

desperate sellers sell it to old cars, thus causing claims. a not so desperate tech wouldnt sell it. it all depends. not the product's fault. its more the tech's judgement.

[nickmak]

sadly i've seen other shops (ie. dealerships and other chains) rip people off as well. i have enough stories to write a book! it's people/places that rip off customers for services/repairs that give the honest techs a bad name.

[1990TSI]

I work at a real shop, and we do trans flushes. sometimes trannys need new fluid, and the only real way to do it is with a flush.
we'll use whatever fluid the OEM recomends, always, and have never had a complaint. some are drain and fill, some will use a flush, if proper fluid and capacity specs are used, no damage should occur.

maybe lazy kids at poor people shops are doing it wrong, but don't look down on the trans flush.

[skyxx]

Tranny flushes are good. But the way I used to do Tranny flush is by the "T-Tech" automatic transmission flush machine. It's basically sucking up the old fluid and dumping fresh ones :) :thumbsup:

[Mugen EvOlutioN]

so now auto tranny flush is ok now? hmm

[Warp9Racing]

it also depends on fluid/and shop.
some trans fluid you can just drain and fill.

long life trans fluid like cvt fluid are questionable too because theres a degredation monitor, but we seem to see a few CVTS that need replacement. the flip side too is that cvt fluid is like $30/l or something and it takes like 10L!

[Mugen EvOlutioN]

^


$300 for oil plus labor? wow